EPTPlayers vs Casters - Page 4
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Karthane
United States1183 Posts
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Hikari
1914 Posts
On September 06 2010 10:06 TotalBiscuit wrote: Casters need Players for content. Players need Casters for cash. Simple, inescapable fact that none of you are going to get anywhere splitting off into camps and taking sides against each other. Seems to me that good players are hard to come by, while everyone with a stream and a mic is trying to be a caster these days. As a player I don't need commentaries, just a good cameraperson: I can tell that the force fields were well placed without someone telling me that every single time a force field is placed in a tournament game. In fact I am more than happy watching replays myself. Go ahead and take the replay and cast it all you want, please don't lag the game and create a logistic nightmare. Several things: - if replays are casted right after a match finishes, it would be very similar to a live tournament. A 1/2 an hour wait imo is worth the legitimacy and quality of the game You are less likely to be spoiled unless you check bnet - 100 casters can cast that replay at the same time without lagging the game! - Using replays save a lot of downtime and add flexibility to schedules. - it allows various types of cast to exist: some may want to cast the replay fresh out of the oven, while others may delay and do a higher quality production. | ||
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hellsan631
United States695 Posts
People can argue that its the casters that bring everything in, or that without streams and viewers, no one would care. I find this view biased. People want to watch top players play. No one would watch a bronze level stream for the game play. Very few even watch mid-diamond streams. It really is the players who are the people providing the "entertainment". The casters are the "middleman" between the player and the viewer. There are a few respected casters though that actually make the game fun. I do think that casters should be allows to cast games, and players can't refuse being cast (in regards to the "official" casters). Each league/event that uses multiple streams to cover it should have a list of "official supported" casters. You cant refuse them to cast your games, unless its ro8 or above. There also really should be a zerg tolerance policy with lag. If there is one bit, that person has to leave. They should still be allowed in the next game, which gives them time to sort out their issues. The only reason to not have a caster be allowed to cast the next game in the series is if they lag for more then 5 seconds, or if they dis-obey the lag policy (or are known laggers. then why are they on the list?) I do agree that while blizzard should have implemented something, we as a community must dictate what is right and what is wrong. As far as the ro8 and up, and why i believe those should only be replay cast, i don't want the fate of a tournament hinging on the unfair advantage given if the games are cast live. With the rules stated above, i feel those would be best for both worlds. Casters would be happy. Players would be happy. Viewers would be just as they are, happy. In order for esports to really climb, there should be some type of rule set that is followed by all. If you look at sports, you have a governing body and set rules and standards in regards to the broadcasts. Shouldn't there be the same, to add legitimacy? Those who are "accepted" would be seen as beatifically to both sides, and held in higher regard. | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On September 06 2010 10:32 TotalBiscuit wrote: Go to bed Martijn, you're making no bloody sense  I blame my girlfriend for distracting me. | ||
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comis
United States333 Posts
Livestream casting is changing competitive gaming - for the better. I agree there are some technical hurdles to overcome, but rejecting it completely is nothing short of a step backwards. | ||
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 06 2010 10:05 shindigs wrote: I just find its absolutely insane that casters > players in these tournaments. The tournament should revolve around the players, not to jumpstart an amateur's casters career. Actually it's viewers > players. Go ahead, make a tournament that has no commentary whatsoever, you just upload sc2 replay files. Enjoy your 50 viewers and a prize pool of tree fitty. EDIT: On September 06 2010 10:36 Kentor wrote: If it's a lan type of event then it should be casted live. If it's not then it should be casted replays. Agree with this 100%. Poker tournaments are broadcast live too, even though there's the risk of someone watching the broadcast and telling one of the players what the other cards are. As to observers slowing down the game, that's a technical issue that should be solved by Blizzard, and if they don't, well, then live with the lag or stop playing competitively. | ||
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cup of joe
28 Posts
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Ome
Canada157 Posts
I've heard these horror stories of 6+ obs in 1 game, just unnecessary imo. But at the same time players shouldn't rage at having their games casted by 1 or 2 casters. Without viewers these money tournaments won't take place, and personally I prefer live tournaments to replays. | ||
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
As for that gosucup final incident, I personally thought it was handled very immaturely by both player and organizers.4000 people were watching a player having a hissy fit and casters being emo about it but swallowing it anyways. | ||
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piegasm
United States266 Posts
On September 06 2010 10:34 Hikari wrote: Seems to me that good players are hard to come by, while everyone with a stream and a mic is trying to be a caster these days. As a player I don't need commentaries, just a good cameraperson: I can tell that the force fields were well placed without someone telling me that every single time a force field is placed in a tournament game. In fact I am more than happy watching replays myself. I see so many people saying things like this but it's so flawed. Your average TL community member probably doesn't need Gunrun telling them that was a really clutch force field, you're right. But ESports will never be more than a niche thing if you don't make fans out of non-players. You're not going to get non-players to give a crap by handing them a replay. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On September 06 2010 10:36 comis wrote: I think all events should be cast live. We should be discussing how to ease that process rather than going back in time to casting replays (which just is NOT the same). Livestream casting is changing competitive gaming - for the better. I agree there are some technical hurdles to overcome, but rejecting it completely is nothing short of a step backwards. I really don't get why lag is what is talked about so much. Seriously, how are people not worried about the integrity of the game and obvious ways to cheat? People cheated when there was less on the line and a couple of well known sc2 players have dark pasts regarding such events. What suddenly makes you think that now, when there are even more events and more money at stake, some people wont try to get a leg up and cheat? Everybody wants live events, but we have to be realistic with the options in front of us. Until streams can all operate on a legitimate delay then there can be cheating. Until tournament organizers put their foot down in regards to 1 stream per game (2 maybe in some cases) then lag can be an issue. | ||
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tertle
Australia328 Posts
Only 1 observer but everyone get's to watch live... Unfortunetly blizzards multiplayer implementation makes this next to impossible... | ||
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Aquafresh
United States824 Posts
On September 06 2010 10:19 HuK wrote: I want to know what is the huge advantage of casting a live game compared to waiting 5-10 minutes and casting the same exact game without any on the negative reasons I listed. sorry if u dont feel like discussing things but from where i can come from when ppl are mature and do so good things usually come out of it Alright I'll play devil's advocate. I guess the advantage would be no spoilers. Even TSL2, which was a great event by all standards, had some results spoiled. I believe it was Tarson who accidentally spoiled the result of his match with NonY on some polish forum. I don't see how this would be an issue outside of the most unlikely circumstances with replays being cast immediately after the end of a match though so it's probably not a big deal. Other than that I think the only other issue is the novelty of a live cast for both the caster and the viewers. Personally I don't think this outweighs the downsides, but enough people might that it could be worth compromising instead of eliminating live casting all together. I think they should just have all online events have a referee and thats it. Have him be in charge of uploading the replay to some place where the casters can easily access it in a timely fashion. | ||
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GenoZStriker
United States2914 Posts
On September 06 2010 10:44 tertle wrote: Pretty much we just need waaaghtv for sc2 Only 1 observer but everyone get's to watch live... This. This is what we need. Sadly there is no LAN for SC2 but it would rid most of the problems players like HuK, MorroW and Idra are pointing out. | ||
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
problem solved?? | ||
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Anther
United States87 Posts
This game is too information and precision based for the blatantly game degenerate system that's in place now. I really feel like multiple casts for a single event is outrageous but I'm only really experienced in offline tournaments for super smash bros brawl. I really feel like the game is too laggy to actually even take results seriously when there are multiple people observing. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
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GenoZStriker
United States2914 Posts
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