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Players vs Casters - Page 29

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Cranberries
Profile Joined July 2010
Wales567 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-06 22:36:46
September 06 2010 22:36 GMT
#561
Blizzard wont change their stance. Blizzard doesn't have a stance on this.

HuK is suggesting communism, Blizzard isn't communist. (Albeit their war on trolling and silencing of any negative feedback continues to rage on)
Raelcun
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States3747 Posts
September 06 2010 22:39 GMT
#562
On September 07 2010 05:12 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Ugh this thread is the biggest repeat ever.

1) Huk: "Hey just use replays"

2) Caster/Tour Admin: "Dude there is a problem with spoilers and players not sending in replays, plus you will get less viewers with replays than live"

3) Random TL Viewer: "Oh just add a delay"

4) Caster: "That's alot of $ and really not feasible."

5) Random TL Viewer: "Oh, well than idk"

6) Random Top Player: "Just use replays... theres no problems"

7) Random dogpile of people agreeing with the new top player posting

8)New Caster jumps in and says this is not a viable business model for 90% of tournaments

Repeat steps 3-8



Fixed that for you, basically the thread in a nutshell. Players are biased, casters/admins are biased tired of repeating myself saying that both parties need to make accommodations for each other seeing as nobody is really listening.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
September 06 2010 22:40 GMT
#563
On September 07 2010 07:39 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2010 05:12 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Ugh this thread is the biggest repeat ever.

1) Huk: "Hey just use replays"

2) Caster/Tour Admin: "Dude there is a problem with spoilers and players not sending in replays, plus you will get less viewers with replays than live"

3) Random TL Viewer: "Oh just add a delay"

4) Caster: "That's alot of $ and really not feasible."

5) Random TL Viewer: "Oh, well than idk"

6) Random Top Player: "Just use replays... theres no problems"

7) Random dogpile of people agreeing with the new top player posting

8)New Caster jumps in and says this is not a viable business model for 90% of tournaments

Repeat steps 3-8



Fixed that for you, basically the thread in a nutshell. Players are biased, casters/admins are biased tired of repeating myself saying that both parties need to make accommodations for each other seeing as nobody is really listening.


I lol'd sir. Well played
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Nazza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1654 Posts
September 06 2010 22:40 GMT
#564
I fully expected this to be some new tournament or something where players would go against casters, or some sort of 2v2 format. Maybe you can just have a huge tourney for casters, whoever wins gets to cast. To add insult to injury, you can spam them during the tourney and stuff.

But yeah, it is pretty ridiculous with the current situation.
No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND
Losthorn
Profile Joined June 2010
Georgia351 Posts
September 06 2010 22:42 GMT
#565
Players > viewers 100%!!!!

Obviously best tournament format is LAN / live casted (GSL, MLG etc).
Online tournaments should all be replay casted as stated by the people that make it all happen (huk, tyler , morrow, idra, 99% of all progamers I am sure). Some1 get a poll running to see the actual numbers but I think most people would back the progamers here....
The only reason I wrote this is when I saw the retarded chat reaction to HuK requesting the game to be caster / observer free during the recent gosucup and even casters were like " Well its a live game HuK just has to deal with it". Seriously? get your heads out of your behinds!!!! Without players your cups/ tourns would not be happening!!!
White-Ra "no need for cinema, just watch special taktiks"
HuckIt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States9 Posts
September 06 2010 22:43 GMT
#566
I'll voice my opinion for live streaming being the way to go for the majority of tournaments. We should work on improving that process for the players, the casters and the fans, but keep it live (or a few minute delay). Overall I find myself agreeing with the viewpoints of posters like Ancient.eu and iCCup.Diamond, so I won't repeat all of that.

Something else to consider that I haven't seen mentioned, is that the people that post here aren't necessarily a representative sample of the people that watch SC2 tournaments.
Killerbot
Profile Joined August 2010
United States106 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-06 22:50:49
September 06 2010 22:46 GMT
#567
On September 07 2010 07:35 cyclone25 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2010 07:20 Killerbot wrote:
On September 07 2010 07:16 Cranberries wrote:
On September 07 2010 07:13 Sernen wrote:
Its just something some people have so ingrained in their head, that they must watch it live or they can't watch it all. Just like everything in life though they'll get use to it, that is watching streamed replays.


In England if you asked someone this question:

"Would you rather watch Manchester United v Chelsea live or would you watch the highlights on Match of the Day tomorrow?" I'm pretty sure a clear majority would watch the match live. It's part of the glamour: if it's happening live you're part of it.

I'm a Manchester United supporter (ish, I support Cardiff now that I live in Cardiff) but I watched the 1999 Champion's League final between Manchester United and Bayern Munich where Manchester United score two goals in the dying minutes of the game. I can say, forever, that I was part of the amazing moment. It's similar to when a new television series airs: you watch the first viewing, you don't watch a repeat, which is also similar to watching a movie. I will put my hand up and say I am going to be seeing Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (Part 1) on the 19th November. It's a special feeling.


Okay you're watching the game and just as they go to score the second goal in the 90th minute to win the game, a fan jumps onto the field grabs the ball and runs away. Guess what? That ONE person just ruined the entire live experience. (LAG)

Or better, you saw the game but found out 2 days later that Man U cheated in order to win that game in the final minutes, they could see exactly what all the Bayern players were going to do, before they did it, would you still think it was such an awesome victory to see live knowing that it was completely hollow and false victory. (CHEATING)


This is ridiculous haha. So you suggest spectators should be forbidden on a live match?
Also lol at players cheating by knowing what their opponents will do. Did you ever saw a football game? You know how this game is played?
Sorry but your logic is terrible.


Well first I'm just showing the stupid nature of using a FOOTBALL match to compare to a video game cast. You are the one who started the analogy, I'm taking your analogy and using it's piss poor starting position to try and explain to someone as dim as you what it is similar to in a professional video game sense.

Yes I know how soccer (thats what we call it) is played, and yes I understand that my logic may seem flawed but yours is even worse for starting a comparison between watching a football game live on TV and watching a video game live on a stream versus slightly delayed/recorded on a stream.

Oh and if every 1 out of 5 spectators did that to a football game, they would remove them (cite Italian soccer body BANNING spectators following guess what? A RIOT THAT DISRUPTED THE GAME).

Take your sports analogies and forget them, they don't apply.

Just to cite about the Italian Ban
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/europe/2007-02-07-italy-violence-stadiums_x.htm
Guess what disruptive behavior, such as lagging in a esport event is similar (not saying equal or anything) to starting a freaking riot in the stands.
GambleVII
Profile Joined August 2010
126 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-06 22:47:24
September 06 2010 22:46 GMT
#568
Why not compromise.

Have them play send replay. The Show that replay and stream it while casting.. Then just do the 2nd game after the first is done... Never any delay inbetween and it be pretty nice.
Smart may have the brains but Stupid has the balls
Sernen
Profile Joined September 2010
United States40 Posts
September 06 2010 22:48 GMT
#569
The casters are too set in their ways, funny how they say nothing is being accomplished well obviously not when you pretty much demand to cast live or else.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-06 22:50:48
September 06 2010 22:50 GMT
#570
On September 07 2010 07:48 Sernen wrote:
The casters are too set in their ways, funny how they say nothing is being accomplished

I feel the same way while watching most of their casts.

Just imagine, without live casting, it'd take 5 or more minutes to hear about some exciting 6 pool going on. That's just unacceptable!
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Sernen
Profile Joined September 2010
United States40 Posts
September 06 2010 22:52 GMT
#571
Not to poke the bear but they didn't even realize it was a 6 pool until after the match anyways..
Cranberries
Profile Joined July 2010
Wales567 Posts
September 06 2010 22:54 GMT
#572
One must also mention that live events are generally timed so that the entire world, within reason, can watch the event live. Watching Day9's KotB at 3-4am BST wasn't my idea of "fun".
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
September 06 2010 22:56 GMT
#573
You should probably get used to it if you plan on following top tier BW/SC2 seriously.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
September 06 2010 22:57 GMT
#574
On September 07 2010 07:36 Cranberries wrote:
Blizzard wont change their stance. Blizzard doesn't have a stance on this.

HuK is suggesting communism, Blizzard isn't communist. (Albeit their war on trolling and silencing of any negative feedback continues to rage on)

lol wut
Killerbot
Profile Joined August 2010
United States106 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-06 22:58:53
September 06 2010 22:58 GMT
#575
On September 07 2010 07:36 Cranberries wrote:
Blizzard wont change their stance. Blizzard doesn't have a stance on this.

HuK is suggesting communism, Blizzard isn't communist. (Albeit their war on trolling and silencing of any negative feedback continues to rage on)


Communism?

Just wow.

Dang beat me to it korea.
Cranberries
Profile Joined July 2010
Wales567 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-06 23:01:16
September 06 2010 22:58 GMT
#576
On September 07 2010 07:56 Jibba wrote:
You should probably get used to it if you plan on following top tier BW/SC2 seriously.


Well I can tune into GSL from 10am BST (which is very good, forces me to get up early too) and most US tournaments run from 19:00 to 23:00 or 01:00 BST which is timed brilliantly, except when there are good BBC programs being aired (Waterloo Road <3). No tournaments are going to start at 19:00 [random US timezone] or later, because it's too late for EU players/too early for Korean players.
Raelcun
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States3747 Posts
September 06 2010 23:04 GMT
#577
On September 07 2010 04:22 HuK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2010 04:08 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
On September 07 2010 04:06 RoarMan wrote:
On September 07 2010 03:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
On September 07 2010 03:48 RoarMan wrote:
On September 07 2010 03:45 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
On September 07 2010 03:40 Whalecore wrote:
/signed

Casting sites needs to implement delay-feature if it isn't already possible.


Dude have you read the thread? It's not possible without spending a lot of $.

Then the only other alternative without having casters in-game is to cast replays.


And again there is a host of issues but most importantly spoilers. There's no one solution here besides LAN's and Blizz doing something about it (which we know won't happen).

....... in which case you have to cast the replays.

This is definitely an issue that Blizzard has to handle, it's pretty damn sad to see a split between casters and players because of these issues.


Ugh let me repeat myself again.

98% of the player base including the OP is absolutely atrocious about submitting replays. HuK did nto upload replays for a tournament that is a live LAN and has over $12k in prizes. Imagine pulling replays for a couple hundred $ tourney.

Also spoilers, I've had it happen, HDH had it happen. Until you can set certain custom games to private on your profile there is no way to avoid this.


excuse me ? i have no idea what your talking about though. if ur talking about esl, we were never asked to post the replays; right after games we were asked to do interviews or w/e and the admins took care of it. i always send in replays including ur ITL GP (with dumby replays) and Gosucup among others. so please dont try to pull that


Official IEM Rules: http://gfx.esl-europe.net/gfx/media/masters/rulebook/Intel_Extreme_Masters_SeasonIV_Rulebook.pdf

Let me point out in particular

4.10 Demos and Replays
All Demo's or replays must be immediately uploaded to a networked server, or to a USB stick provided by the Intel
Extreme Masters administration.

7.5.2 Demos
All players have to record demos from their matches. They have to those recordings until the end of the tournament.
Replays have to be uploaded on the match site until 24 hours after the match has been played.

You were saying?
phuzi0n
Profile Joined April 2010
United States308 Posts
September 06 2010 23:05 GMT
#578
On September 07 2010 07:54 Cranberries wrote:
One must also mention that live events are generally timed so that the entire world, within reason, can watch the event live. Watching Day9's KotB at 3-4am BST wasn't my idea of "fun".

Uh, no... GSL is being cast at 2-5AM PST / 5-8AM EST so the Americas are having to be up in the middle of the night just like you did for Day9's KotB.
Killerbot
Profile Joined August 2010
United States106 Posts
September 06 2010 23:10 GMT
#579
On September 07 2010 08:04 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2010 04:22 HuK wrote:
On September 07 2010 04:08 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
On September 07 2010 04:06 RoarMan wrote:
On September 07 2010 03:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
On September 07 2010 03:48 RoarMan wrote:
On September 07 2010 03:45 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
On September 07 2010 03:40 Whalecore wrote:
/signed

Casting sites needs to implement delay-feature if it isn't already possible.


Dude have you read the thread? It's not possible without spending a lot of $.

Then the only other alternative without having casters in-game is to cast replays.


And again there is a host of issues but most importantly spoilers. There's no one solution here besides LAN's and Blizz doing something about it (which we know won't happen).

....... in which case you have to cast the replays.

This is definitely an issue that Blizzard has to handle, it's pretty damn sad to see a split between casters and players because of these issues.


Ugh let me repeat myself again.

98% of the player base including the OP is absolutely atrocious about submitting replays. HuK did nto upload replays for a tournament that is a live LAN and has over $12k in prizes. Imagine pulling replays for a couple hundred $ tourney.

Also spoilers, I've had it happen, HDH had it happen. Until you can set certain custom games to private on your profile there is no way to avoid this.


excuse me ? i have no idea what your talking about though. if ur talking about esl, we were never asked to post the replays; right after games we were asked to do interviews or w/e and the admins took care of it. i always send in replays including ur ITL GP (with dumby replays) and Gosucup among others. so please dont try to pull that


Official IEM Rules: http://gfx.esl-europe.net/gfx/media/masters/rulebook/Intel_Extreme_Masters_SeasonIV_Rulebook.pdf

Let me point out in particular

4.10 Demos and Replays
All Demo's or replays must be immediately uploaded to a networked server, or to a USB stick provided by the Intel
Extreme Masters administration.

7.5.2 Demos
All players have to record demos from their matches. They have to those recordings until the end of the tournament.
Replays have to be uploaded on the match site until 24 hours after the match has been played.

You were saying?


To quote your own post Raelcun and HuK's he says that the ADMINS took care of the replays, which I think is completely acceptable, why should the player HAVE to be responsible for replays when you can just as easily have 1 admin in the game and he can post replays. Or after a match you can have an admin pop on a player's comp while the user is deciding next map.

The players have plenty of stress and things going on in their heads already to have to also be thinking about saving and uploading replays, the solution is to have 1(ONE) and only 1 admin in the game, with no casting and he immediately gives the replay to the appropriate casters or in a live LAN event to have an admin pop on the winner's comp and upload the replay while the loser picks map.

Those IEM rules obviously are ignored in live events, as I will take HuK's word over the IEM rulebook.
tsutter
Profile Joined March 2009
United States52 Posts
September 06 2010 23:11 GMT
#580
the replay route is the best way to go

the people complaining that it'll lose ~*The Magic*~ or ~*The Hype*~ because they don't get instant gratification and instead get gratification 5 minutes later are dumb and shouldn't even be paid attention to

almost every competition, game show, whatever on TV is taped - does that stop the hype? not really. not everything is afforded the luxury of being live, and when it starts jeopardizing the legitimacy of tournament results then god damn just go to replays its simple
whatup
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