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ESL usually gives penalty points to those who do not upload replays but because it did not matter from that point on, they did not give penalty points. Also ESL nationals is something new. The European admins are more strict because they've been doing it longer and know the rules inside out.
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It may be dumb to compare esports to real ones, but if having live audience watching football games made players trip or drop the ball more, there's no way in hell they'd continue the practice.
Casters in this thread shouldn't be arguing with things like "no we can't fix this" or "it's impossible or too costly to do it any other way" or "players are too lame to submit replays." Instead, admit there's a problem (if top players are saying there's a problem, then yeah, there's a problem) and engage in a proactive discussion about what can be done to resolve it, and then talk about what you'll do differently in the future. Bashing players in general is just not productive. Instead, you need to whip out the hurt-stick when people break rules, and build up enough credibility to ensure that casters and players are behaving appropriately.
When this thread was started, I was honestly hoping to see posts by prominent organizers/casters that looked like this:
"Hey, one/two caster(s) per game is something we can do to help fix this."
"Maybe if we actually follow through on replay-related policies, people will believe us and send in replays."
"We should start banning casters from events if they refuse to leave after lagging or if they try to edge out official or affiliated casters."
"Maybe we should try a small replay-only event and see how the system works."
"When the next big tourney hits BO16, we could have admins in games and use dropbox or some other file sharing service to get them to casters on-demand and instantly."
"For high-stakes tournaments, you could have players download an auto-replay upload service like the one posted on TL. Half an hour of setup could mean no replay hassle for the entire tourney."
And the list of ideas goes on, but apparently that's not what people are here to talk about.
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On September 07 2010 08:23 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 08:20 Animostas wrote:
Like HuK said, LAN should be casted live. Period.
For online tournaments, I seriously don't see the problem with doing it off replays. You can't, in any way compare this to a sporting event, because at the sporting event, there's SOMEONE watching it live. If you're going to compare it to a football match, for example, it'd be the equivalent of no one being in the stadium except the players/coaches, videotaping it, and then having it broadcasted on TV afterwards.
The only people that can spoil the match are the players or the admin, or if a replay gets leaked somehow. The rest of the world wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between a live game and one casted like this. Read the above thread, Huk the OP in a live online event the IEM group stages has still not posted the replays from one of his matches. Getting replays from every player from every match in an online even is a major headache which if anything causes more delays while trying to do it live than waiting for a bracket. He claims it's not his responsibility but there was no admin in his game just the stream and I posted the rules saying that the players are responsible and then Nony turns around and says it's ridiculous because the admins should have handled it. If the OP claiming we should cast from replays is refusing to post his then... how can this be a viable solution?
Maybe a simple solution is to "enforce" the replay posting by simply not counting a win until the relevant replay is posted. With this rule no1 would be too "lazy" to post a replay and no caster would "suffer" by not getting their hands on the replay in time.
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On September 07 2010 08:27 Killerbot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 08:23 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On September 07 2010 08:20 Animostas wrote:
Like HuK said, LAN should be casted live. Period.
For online tournaments, I seriously don't see the problem with doing it off replays. You can't, in any way compare this to a sporting event, because at the sporting event, there's SOMEONE watching it live. If you're going to compare it to a football match, for example, it'd be the equivalent of no one being in the stadium except the players/coaches, videotaping it, and then having it broadcasted on TV afterwards.
The only people that can spoil the match are the players or the admin, or if a replay gets leaked somehow. The rest of the world wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between a live game and one casted like this. Read the above thread, Huk the OP in a live online event the IEM group stages has still not posted the replays from one of his matches. Getting replays from every player from every match in an online even is a major headache which if anything causes more delays while trying to do it live than waiting for a bracket. He claims it's not his responsibility but there was no admin in his game just the stream and I posted the rules saying that the players are responsible and then Nony turns around and says it's ridiculous because the admins should have handled it. If the OP claiming we should cast from replays is refusing to post his then... how can this be a viable solution? Okay, and if you read 2 posts above, the winner posts, so Machine posts. Second if it's as big a concern as you seem to think it is, make it so there is a punishment for NOT uploading replays, in that maybe they get warned and then if they fail again they are banned from 2 or 3 tournaments. If you want to control players, hit them where it hurts, their pocket books, not in the game where by causing lag, possible cheating, disturbances from spectators and casters.
The rules state that BOTH players save their replays because of situations like this. If the winner does not upload replays then the ideal is he gets punished and they make the loser upload. Machine has not posted the replays under this situation since there was no admin present it becomes Huk's responsibility to post the replays. He's claiming it's not his responsibility, again the person who wrote the OP saying we should use replays not uploading them makes a good example of why it's such a pain in the ass to use replays. We had to wrangle replays from replays with many threats and pain in the ITL GP and then a player who lost in the first round spoiled the results of a later round in favor of his teammate. Players do not always act mature in these situations and look at the threads about every time a player is penalized there's huge discussions on both sides with much rage. Yes replays would work if the players would behave theoretically but then in order to not lose viewers you have to pretend it's live and actively deceive your viewers which I'm not a fan of.
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On September 07 2010 08:27 Killerbot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 08:23 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On September 07 2010 08:20 Animostas wrote:
Like HuK said, LAN should be casted live. Period.
For online tournaments, I seriously don't see the problem with doing it off replays. You can't, in any way compare this to a sporting event, because at the sporting event, there's SOMEONE watching it live. If you're going to compare it to a football match, for example, it'd be the equivalent of no one being in the stadium except the players/coaches, videotaping it, and then having it broadcasted on TV afterwards.
The only people that can spoil the match are the players or the admin, or if a replay gets leaked somehow. The rest of the world wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between a live game and one casted like this. Read the above thread, Huk the OP in a live online event the IEM group stages has still not posted the replays from one of his matches. Getting replays from every player from every match in an online even is a major headache which if anything causes more delays while trying to do it live than waiting for a bracket. He claims it's not his responsibility but there was no admin in his game just the stream and I posted the rules saying that the players are responsible and then Nony turns around and says it's ridiculous because the admins should have handled it. If the OP claiming we should cast from replays is refusing to post his then... how can this be a viable solution? Okay, and if you read 2 posts above, the winner posts, so Machine posts. Second if it's as big a concern as you seem to think it is, make it so there is a punishment for NOT uploading replays, in that maybe they get warned and then if they fail again they are banned from 2 or 3 tournaments. If you want to control players, hit them where it hurts, their pocket books, not in the game where by causing lag, possible cheating, disturbances from spectators and casters.
this seems kind of harsh and we should still keep in perspective that it's just a video game but
anyone who played competitive counter strike knows that you had to record a demo before EVERY match - not because you had to submit it, but because if someone disputed your for cheating, 16 bitting, whatever, and you didn't have it, you were up shit creek. so, the vast majority of people remembered their demos. if you make it compulsory, as most people in here are saying, it won't be a problem at all.
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On September 07 2010 08:04 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 04:22 HuK wrote:On September 07 2010 04:08 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 04:06 RoarMan wrote:On September 07 2010 03:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 03:48 RoarMan wrote:On September 07 2010 03:45 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 03:40 Whalecore wrote:
/signed
Casting sites needs to implement delay-feature if it isn't already possible. Dude have you read the thread? It's not possible without spending a lot of $. Then the only other alternative without having casters in-game is to cast replays. And again there is a host of issues but most importantly spoilers. There's no one solution here besides LAN's and Blizz doing something about it (which we know won't happen). ....... in which case you have to cast the replays. This is definitely an issue that Blizzard has to handle, it's pretty damn sad to see a split between casters and players because of these issues. Ugh let me repeat myself again. 98% of the player base including the OP is absolutely atrocious about submitting replays. HuK did nto upload replays for a tournament that is a live LAN and has over $12k in prizes. Imagine pulling replays for a couple hundred $ tourney. Also spoilers, I've had it happen, HDH had it happen. Until you can set certain custom games to private on your profile there is no way to avoid this. excuse me ? i have no idea what your talking about though. if ur talking about esl, we were never asked to post the replays; right after games we were asked to do interviews or w/e and the admins took care of it. i always send in replays including ur ITL GP (with dumby replays) and Gosucup among others. so please dont try to pull that Official IEM Rules: http://gfx.esl-europe.net/gfx/media/masters/rulebook/Intel_Extreme_Masters_SeasonIV_Rulebook.pdfLet me point out in particular 4.10 Demos and Replays All Demo's or replays must be immediately uploaded to a networked server, or to a USB stick provided by the Intel Extreme Masters administration. 7.5.2 Demos All players have to record demos from their matches. They have to those recordings until the end of the tournament. Replays have to be uploaded on the match site until 24 hours after the match has been played. You were saying?
glad you post when you have no idea what your talking about. at esl lan we had to do interviews/makeup/move right after games so we didn't have time to post replays on the site, the admins took care of it. just because its written in the rules doesn't mean thats whats going to happen at a live event. awesome you post about it tho considering you weren't even there
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On September 07 2010 08:30 Losthorn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 08:23 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On September 07 2010 08:20 Animostas wrote:
Like HuK said, LAN should be casted live. Period.
For online tournaments, I seriously don't see the problem with doing it off replays. You can't, in any way compare this to a sporting event, because at the sporting event, there's SOMEONE watching it live. If you're going to compare it to a football match, for example, it'd be the equivalent of no one being in the stadium except the players/coaches, videotaping it, and then having it broadcasted on TV afterwards.
The only people that can spoil the match are the players or the admin, or if a replay gets leaked somehow. The rest of the world wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between a live game and one casted like this. Read the above thread, Huk the OP in a live online event the IEM group stages has still not posted the replays from one of his matches. Getting replays from every player from every match in an online even is a major headache which if anything causes more delays while trying to do it live than waiting for a bracket. He claims it's not his responsibility but there was no admin in his game just the stream and I posted the rules saying that the players are responsible and then Nony turns around and says it's ridiculous because the admins should have handled it. If the OP claiming we should cast from replays is refusing to post his then... how can this be a viable solution? Maybe a simple solution is to "enforce" the replay posting by simply not counting a win until the relevant replay is posted. With this rule no1 would be too "lazy" to post a replay and no caster would "suffer" by not getting their hands on the replay in time.
Exactly, also 'fake' replays can be checked in seconds by opening up the replay in Sc2gears
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On September 07 2010 08:33 HuK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 08:04 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On September 07 2010 04:22 HuK wrote:On September 07 2010 04:08 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 04:06 RoarMan wrote:On September 07 2010 03:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 03:48 RoarMan wrote:On September 07 2010 03:45 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 03:40 Whalecore wrote:
/signed
Casting sites needs to implement delay-feature if it isn't already possible. Dude have you read the thread? It's not possible without spending a lot of $. Then the only other alternative without having casters in-game is to cast replays. And again there is a host of issues but most importantly spoilers. There's no one solution here besides LAN's and Blizz doing something about it (which we know won't happen). ....... in which case you have to cast the replays. This is definitely an issue that Blizzard has to handle, it's pretty damn sad to see a split between casters and players because of these issues. Ugh let me repeat myself again. 98% of the player base including the OP is absolutely atrocious about submitting replays. HuK did nto upload replays for a tournament that is a live LAN and has over $12k in prizes. Imagine pulling replays for a couple hundred $ tourney. Also spoilers, I've had it happen, HDH had it happen. Until you can set certain custom games to private on your profile there is no way to avoid this. excuse me ? i have no idea what your talking about though. if ur talking about esl, we were never asked to post the replays; right after games we were asked to do interviews or w/e and the admins took care of it. i always send in replays including ur ITL GP (with dumby replays) and Gosucup among others. so please dont try to pull that Official IEM Rules: http://gfx.esl-europe.net/gfx/media/masters/rulebook/Intel_Extreme_Masters_SeasonIV_Rulebook.pdfLet me point out in particular 4.10 Demos and Replays All Demo's or replays must be immediately uploaded to a networked server, or to a USB stick provided by the Intel Extreme Masters administration. 7.5.2 Demos All players have to record demos from their matches. They have to those recordings until the end of the tournament. Replays have to be uploaded on the match site until 24 hours after the match has been played. You were saying? glad you post when you have no idea what your talking about. at esl lan we had to do interviews/makeup/move right after games so we didn't have time to post replays on the site, the admins took care of it. just because its written in the rules doesn't mean thats whats going to happen at a live event. awesome you post about it tho considering you weren't even there
I'm not talking about the LAN for the tenth time I mean IEM group stages from 2 days ago in which you played machined. It's not a live event there was no admin in game iwth you to save the replay just the stream. Glad you post when YOU have no idea what you're talking about.
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On September 07 2010 08:31 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 08:27 Killerbot wrote:On September 07 2010 08:23 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On September 07 2010 08:20 Animostas wrote:
Like HuK said, LAN should be casted live. Period.
For online tournaments, I seriously don't see the problem with doing it off replays. You can't, in any way compare this to a sporting event, because at the sporting event, there's SOMEONE watching it live. If you're going to compare it to a football match, for example, it'd be the equivalent of no one being in the stadium except the players/coaches, videotaping it, and then having it broadcasted on TV afterwards.
The only people that can spoil the match are the players or the admin, or if a replay gets leaked somehow. The rest of the world wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between a live game and one casted like this. Read the above thread, Huk the OP in a live online event the IEM group stages has still not posted the replays from one of his matches. Getting replays from every player from every match in an online even is a major headache which if anything causes more delays while trying to do it live than waiting for a bracket. He claims it's not his responsibility but there was no admin in his game just the stream and I posted the rules saying that the players are responsible and then Nony turns around and says it's ridiculous because the admins should have handled it. If the OP claiming we should cast from replays is refusing to post his then... how can this be a viable solution? Okay, and if you read 2 posts above, the winner posts, so Machine posts. Second if it's as big a concern as you seem to think it is, make it so there is a punishment for NOT uploading replays, in that maybe they get warned and then if they fail again they are banned from 2 or 3 tournaments. If you want to control players, hit them where it hurts, their pocket books, not in the game where by causing lag, possible cheating, disturbances from spectators and casters. The rules state that BOTH players save their replays because of situations like this. If the winner does not upload replays then the ideal is he gets punished and they make the loser upload. Machine has not posted the replays under this situation since there was no admin present it becomes Huk's responsibility to post the replays. He's claiming it's not his responsibility, again the person who wrote the OP saying we should use replays not uploading them makes a good example of why it's such a pain in the ass to use replays. We had to wrangle replays from replays with many threats and pain in the ITL GP and then a player who lost in the first round spoiled the results of a later round in favor of his teammate. Players do not always act mature in these situations and look at the threads about every time a player is penalized there's huge discussions on both sides with much rage. Yes replays would work if the players would behave theoretically but then in order to not lose viewers you have to pretend it's live and actively deceive your viewers which I'm not a fan of.
Okay so HuK was in the wrong not posting his replays because Machine failed to he should have. Sure I understand that part, and I can see that players are a pain sometimes, but WITHOUT the best players, you would NOT have anything to cast, so maybe instead of being a semi-diva caster complaining about the players, you work WITH them to get things figured out.
And as to actively deceiving your viewers, why not just tell them it's recorded, but since it's the FIRST time anyone is seeing the replay it can still be exciting, IF you don't go looking for a result or ruin it through casting and maybe turn off chat when casting a replay so no one else can ruin it for the viewers, but honestly if EVERYONE casted off replays, you would get nearly just as many viewers with a few becoming overly emotionally pissed off about having to watch a replay instead of a 'live' game.
I'm sorry Raelcun, I like your stream, and I would watch it whether you were casting replays, or casting live games. Day9 succeeds casting almost solely replays, not only does he survive, he is probably one of the most popular SC2 casters in the community. I enjoy analysis BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF THE GAMEPLAY.
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On September 07 2010 08:35 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 08:33 HuK wrote:On September 07 2010 08:04 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On September 07 2010 04:22 HuK wrote:On September 07 2010 04:08 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 04:06 RoarMan wrote:On September 07 2010 03:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 03:48 RoarMan wrote:On September 07 2010 03:45 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 03:40 Whalecore wrote:
/signed
Casting sites needs to implement delay-feature if it isn't already possible. Dude have you read the thread? It's not possible without spending a lot of $. Then the only other alternative without having casters in-game is to cast replays. And again there is a host of issues but most importantly spoilers. There's no one solution here besides LAN's and Blizz doing something about it (which we know won't happen). ....... in which case you have to cast the replays. This is definitely an issue that Blizzard has to handle, it's pretty damn sad to see a split between casters and players because of these issues. Ugh let me repeat myself again. 98% of the player base including the OP is absolutely atrocious about submitting replays. HuK did nto upload replays for a tournament that is a live LAN and has over $12k in prizes. Imagine pulling replays for a couple hundred $ tourney. Also spoilers, I've had it happen, HDH had it happen. Until you can set certain custom games to private on your profile there is no way to avoid this. excuse me ? i have no idea what your talking about though. if ur talking about esl, we were never asked to post the replays; right after games we were asked to do interviews or w/e and the admins took care of it. i always send in replays including ur ITL GP (with dumby replays) and Gosucup among others. so please dont try to pull that Official IEM Rules: http://gfx.esl-europe.net/gfx/media/masters/rulebook/Intel_Extreme_Masters_SeasonIV_Rulebook.pdfLet me point out in particular 4.10 Demos and Replays All Demo's or replays must be immediately uploaded to a networked server, or to a USB stick provided by the Intel Extreme Masters administration. 7.5.2 Demos All players have to record demos from their matches. They have to those recordings until the end of the tournament. Replays have to be uploaded on the match site until 24 hours after the match has been played. You were saying? glad you post when you have no idea what your talking about. at esl lan we had to do interviews/makeup/move right after games so we didn't have time to post replays on the site, the admins took care of it. just because its written in the rules doesn't mean thats whats going to happen at a live event. awesome you post about it tho considering you weren't even there I'm not talking about the LAN for the tenth time I mean IEM group stages from 2 days ago in which you played machined. It's not a live event there was no admin in game iwth you to save the replay just the stream. Glad you post when YOU have no idea what you're talking about.
the thing is we were talking about the lan event lol next time keep up or keep out
edit:
I love how you took quotes of us talking about the LAN event (see nony even talking about it as well) then converted the conversation to the iem qualifiers which NO ONE was talking about.
When I talked to the admins and they said that machine would post it and its ok not to worry about it. MAYBE if you were an admin for esl you could have some say here but your not.
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On September 07 2010 08:37 HuK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 08:35 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On September 07 2010 08:33 HuK wrote:On September 07 2010 08:04 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On September 07 2010 04:22 HuK wrote:On September 07 2010 04:08 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 04:06 RoarMan wrote:On September 07 2010 03:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 03:48 RoarMan wrote:On September 07 2010 03:45 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
[quote]
Dude have you read the thread? It's not possible without spending a lot of $. Then the only other alternative without having casters in-game is to cast replays. And again there is a host of issues but most importantly spoilers. There's no one solution here besides LAN's and Blizz doing something about it (which we know won't happen). ....... in which case you have to cast the replays. This is definitely an issue that Blizzard has to handle, it's pretty damn sad to see a split between casters and players because of these issues. Ugh let me repeat myself again. 98% of the player base including the OP is absolutely atrocious about submitting replays. HuK did nto upload replays for a tournament that is a live LAN and has over $12k in prizes. Imagine pulling replays for a couple hundred $ tourney. Also spoilers, I've had it happen, HDH had it happen. Until you can set certain custom games to private on your profile there is no way to avoid this. excuse me ? i have no idea what your talking about though. if ur talking about esl, we were never asked to post the replays; right after games we were asked to do interviews or w/e and the admins took care of it. i always send in replays including ur ITL GP (with dumby replays) and Gosucup among others. so please dont try to pull that Official IEM Rules: http://gfx.esl-europe.net/gfx/media/masters/rulebook/Intel_Extreme_Masters_SeasonIV_Rulebook.pdfLet me point out in particular 4.10 Demos and Replays All Demo's or replays must be immediately uploaded to a networked server, or to a USB stick provided by the Intel Extreme Masters administration. 7.5.2 Demos All players have to record demos from their matches. They have to those recordings until the end of the tournament. Replays have to be uploaded on the match site until 24 hours after the match has been played. You were saying? glad you post when you have no idea what your talking about. at esl lan we had to do interviews/makeup/move right after games so we didn't have time to post replays on the site, the admins took care of it. just because its written in the rules doesn't mean thats whats going to happen at a live event. awesome you post about it tho considering you weren't even there I'm not talking about the LAN for the tenth time I mean IEM group stages from 2 days ago in which you played machined. It's not a live event there was no admin in game iwth you to save the replay just the stream. Glad you post when YOU have no idea what you're talking about. the thing is we were talking about the lan event lol next time keep up or keep out edit: I love how you took quotes of us talking about the LAN event (see nony even talking about it as well) then converted the conversation to the iem qualifiers which NO ONE was talking about. When I talked to the admins and they said that machine would post it and its ok not to worry about it. MAYBE if you were an admin for esl you could have some say here but your not.
Oh no he didn't! <3 HuK Canadian Warrior
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On September 07 2010 08:23 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 08:20 Animostas wrote:
Like HuK said, LAN should be casted live. Period.
For online tournaments, I seriously don't see the problem with doing it off replays. You can't, in any way compare this to a sporting event, because at the sporting event, there's SOMEONE watching it live. If you're going to compare it to a football match, for example, it'd be the equivalent of no one being in the stadium except the players/coaches, videotaping it, and then having it broadcasted on TV afterwards.
The only people that can spoil the match are the players or the admin, or if a replay gets leaked somehow. The rest of the world wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between a live game and one casted like this. Read the above thread, Huk the OP in a live online event the IEM group stages has still not posted the replays from one of his matches. Getting replays from every player from every match in an online even is a major headache which if anything causes more delays while trying to do it live than waiting for a bracket. He claims it's not his responsibility but there was no admin in his game just the stream and I posted the rules saying that the players are responsible and then Nony turns around and says it's ridiculous because the admins should have handled it. If the OP claiming we should cast from replays is refusing to post his then... how can this be a viable solution?
Why exactly do you need every replay from every game, are you going to cast them all, no. God forbid a handful of players were told beforehand to upload their games for casters to use, again, not the entire field.
But you're so against using replays, at this point you've locked out any other options that don't allow you to cast from the game live
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Raelcun you're kinda lost here. You are quoting rules from the live events (Global Challenge and nationals) and Quake Live. It's winner uploads replay and you assume that because Machine didn't upload them that HuK should so he is equally to blame which is not true.
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For those who are trying to compare this to a pro sports event. Think of the topic this way, fans, players, and coaches have direct access to find out what the next play will be by contacting another without any trace of it happening.
Even just watching replays hit the NE Patriots reputation pretty hard.
And this is much further of an issue being addressed here.
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Considering that this thread is already ridiculous I'd just like to say...
On September 07 2010 07:16 Cranberries wrote:
I'm a Manchester United supporter (ish, I support Cardiff now that I live in Cardiff) but I watched the 1999 Champion's League final between Manchester United and Bayern Munich where Manchester United score two goals in the dying minutes of the game. I can say, forever, that I was part of the amazing moment.
And Solksjaer has won it!!!
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On September 07 2010 08:43 Serendipicus wrote:
For those who are trying to compare this to a pro sports event. This of the topic this way, fans, players, and coaches have direct access to find out what the next play will be by contacting another without any trace of it happening.
Even just watching replays hit the NE Patriots reputation pretty hard.
And this is must further of an issue being addressed here.
Love it, also when was the last time a Pro Athlete posted on a message board of fans to open A DISCUSSION about rules changes and game changes because he SEES that as it is now, it appears broken.
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@Sernen Replays can work on big events in which the prize pool is big enough that a threat of a DQ is scary enough for the players. But in the smaller events weekly tournaments that run mostly on volunteers then it really isnt. What needs to go are the sweeping generalizations "only cast live at LAN" "every tournament can use replays" there are a lot of tournaments that cannot. I am using the Huk vs Machine as an example. Huk's argument is by saying that I don't know what Diamond was talking about when I'm on skype with him right now. Really?
Casting from replays in a situation like the IEM groups can work but it has to be planned out ahead of time and explained clearly it takes another level of organization to make sure it goes smoothly plus extra staff. It was not planned out ahead of time for the IEM groups, and the big weekly tournaments like the ESL EU weekly that he was referring to in his OP are not viable to be casted from replays, the main draw for the sponsors on those tournaments are how long the stream is on. Which goes away if you take away half hte tournament by only casting the top 16 or whatever.
@GenoZStriker I was a tournament admin for 3 years, the rules state BOTH players must save replays for the express reason that sometimes replays bug out get corrupted or do not get uploaded. Right I'm the one not knowing what I"m talking about and I quoted the rules from the IEM page directly.
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Maybe have one admin in each game who saves the replays...? It might work for events starting with 64 players, as that means only 32 admins... It seems a little excessive, though. Maybe just do that for the really high events, such as the quarterfinals and above, and have the lower ones just be cast normally? A final solution would be a single "official" stream lagging 1-2 minutes behind with only one observer and no commentary, and then let other commentators work off that, but I don't know how well that'd work.
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Osaka27162 Posts
If you guys want to stop kicking each other in the balls and create some compromise and discussion, feel free to remake the thread with the important parts summarized. Otherwise I am just going to close this he said she said.
For the record, the TSL was casted off replays and we had one leak (Tarson, who was banned) in a preliminary round, one broadcast malfunction (our fault), and we collected every replay except for IdrA where we made a special exemption. It is possible to do if you set the rules out well enough beforehand.
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EPT
