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On September 05 2010 18:04 numLoCK wrote:
Let Joe Schmoe enter courage and get his face stomped, there's much more stopping him from participating than a license, its a big separator called skill. Frankly, I don't want to watch D, C, or any other low level game in my esports tournament. I want the S-Class Flash vs Jaedong.
It really bothers me that TL has become a place where so many people disrespect their roots. I mean honestly, how can this website actually have debates when someone, no matter who, threatens to destroy our beloved BW?
i know right. all these people are quick to shout that the whole progaming scene has been ILLEGAL (we'll see about that in the Korean courts) without realizing that this is or was the core of TL for so many years.
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On September 05 2010 20:52 _awake_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2010 18:04 numLoCK wrote:
Let Joe Schmoe enter courage and get his face stomped, there's much more stopping him from participating than a license, its a big separator called skill. Frankly, I don't want to watch D, C, or any other low level game in my esports tournament. I want the S-Class Flash vs Jaedong.
It really bothers me that TL has become a place where so many people disrespect their roots. I mean honestly, how can this website actually have debates when someone, no matter who, threatens to destroy our beloved BW? i know right. all these people are quick to shout that the whole progaming scene has been ILLEGAL (we'll see about that in the Korean courts) without realizing that this is or was the core of TL for so many years.
I would be surprised if even half of TL at this point followed BW, people who were here before SC2 are in the minority now
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On September 05 2010 21:06 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2010 20:52 _awake_ wrote:On September 05 2010 18:04 numLoCK wrote:
Let Joe Schmoe enter courage and get his face stomped, there's much more stopping him from participating than a license, its a big separator called skill. Frankly, I don't want to watch D, C, or any other low level game in my esports tournament. I want the S-Class Flash vs Jaedong.
It really bothers me that TL has become a place where so many people disrespect their roots. I mean honestly, how can this website actually have debates when someone, no matter who, threatens to destroy our beloved BW? i know right. all these people are quick to shout that the whole progaming scene has been ILLEGAL (we'll see about that in the Korean courts) without realizing that this is or was the core of TL for so many years. I would be surprised if even half of TL at this point followed BW, people who were here before SC2 are in the minority now
TL is not the center of the world. Hell, for long it was not even center of foreign community.
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^TL has always been the best place for foreigners to go for their Kprogaming fix. Other sites may have had a larger foreigner community base at one stage or another but none of them were dedicated to Korean progaming scene in the was TL is.
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France2061 Posts
On September 05 2010 18:26 FishForThought wrote:
Have you thought for a second that if it goes to court it is because Gretech wants to fight for their own interest? Blizzard is not behind every unsolved crime in the world and blaming them for giving Gretech the contract after Kespa refused it isn't going to reverse time and give Kespa a second chance to accept the offer.
Gretech and Blizzard's interests largely coincide: Gretech wants SC2 to replace BW, so does Blizzard. That doesn't mean that some Blizzard suit is on the phone giving orders, but Gretech is doing what Blizzard can't do directly.
On September 05 2010 18:26 FishForThought wrote:
So GomTV winnings have a higher tax rate than PL winnings? You'll have to give me a source to that. The license didn't really do anything to professionalize the game, if you earn your pro-gamer license you still pretty much can't participate in the leagues without a team sponsor and if you do get sponsor, you get your license for free. Basically, the whole professional scene is based on whether you are lucky enough to get scouted by the kespa teams.
Team practice partners are expected to pass Courage and officialize their status with a license. And those that get scouted aren't "lucky," they're in top clans and often live in semipro houses and draw attention because they're the best. Semipro houses -- more infrastructure that wouldn't exist if there wasn't a clear path to becoming a progamer. And anyway you're denouncing a situation which will be even more pronounced if there is no official status or license at all. Doesn't make sense.
On September 05 2010 18:26 FishForThought wrote:
You claim that BW is an esport thus, it should be treated like any other sport (free use and such) yet you admit that esport is not an "established sport" (so you need to keep pampering it). You need to make up your mind, if it is a sport, then regardless of Kespa's presence it will persist, if it is not a real sport then you have to accept that it is in blizzard's right to regulate it.
Where did I say any of this? You're confusing me with another poster.
On September 05 2010 18:26 FishForThought wrote:
Joe Schmoe are the people on these forums that read strategies, practice every day, play in whatever tournament they can to improve themselves, only to find that they can never compete professionally or reach professional status, because the door to pro-gaming is only open to a select few that happens to be born in the right country and be at the right place at the right time.
Although I don't think you are, I can understand why people think you're a plant with these kind of carefully calibrated appeals to the masses that you've written here and in other threads. More importantly, this high-minded political campaign speech is completely baseless: on this very site, which SC2 tournament gets the most attention; which tournament are people most excited about? The GSL -- a Korean tourney with mostly high-level Korean players and Idra, who's fame derives from him being on a Korean proteam. People want to see the best. Hell, in a TL poll which asked, "which tournament was better, IEM Cologne or MLG Raleigh," over 70% of the votes went to IEM, and while people lauded the MLG's atmosphere, they thought IEM had the better players and better games. And that's what they want to watch.
Also, the "door to progaming" is open to everyone: KeSPA never controlled anything in other countries, so it's not their fault that progaming didn't take off in Europe or North America or somewhere else. This idea that killing them off will kickstart progaming in the rest of the world is just a lurid fantasy entertained by people hating on the Korean scene's success.
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France2061 Posts
On September 05 2010 21:06 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2010 20:52 _awake_ wrote:On September 05 2010 18:04 numLoCK wrote:
Let Joe Schmoe enter courage and get his face stomped, there's much more stopping him from participating than a license, its a big separator called skill. Frankly, I don't want to watch D, C, or any other low level game in my esports tournament. I want the S-Class Flash vs Jaedong.
It really bothers me that TL has become a place where so many people disrespect their roots. I mean honestly, how can this website actually have debates when someone, no matter who, threatens to destroy our beloved BW? i know right. all these people are quick to shout that the whole progaming scene has been ILLEGAL (we'll see about that in the Korean courts) without realizing that this is or was the core of TL for so many years. I would be surprised if even half of TL at this point followed BW, people who were here before SC2 are in the minority now
You're absolutely right. But the culture that was built up over the years cannot be allowed to disappear, or TL will be in danger of becoming just another SC2 site. We don't want to see Joe Schmoe, we want to watch the best. And I say this as a Joe Schmoe among many others. The scope and uniqueness of the Korean Brood War scene must never be forgotten, or people will settle for much less and get sweet-talked into thinking it's an improvement.
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blizzard should just back off and let kespa does what it does. sc would never been this big if blizzard acted like this 8 years ago, if they want sc2 to be big in korea u gotta stop trying to make money of the tourneys 
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So, assuming there was no controversy, when would the proleague usually start?
Also, it's seriously painful to see all these hopelessly uninformed Sc2 players make ridiculous assumptions and baseless accusations towards KESPA.
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So GomTV winnings have a higher tax rate than [SL] winnings?
Yes, 4.4% versus 3%, but thats apparently due to recent law changes, it used to be a larger separation.
Thats what I read in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496 but I (and you?) don't speak Korean, so trying to track down an actual source is likely futile.
P.S. Is there a prize pool for PL at all? The teams would be compensated by advertising exposure even if they were just playing for pride/bragging rights.
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no, I do not agree that removes easy to BW that, good, agree I they removed that it if the players (all) had practiced SC2 since beginning.
But they have only left 2 fucks months, at least leave 1 year so that at least they know like playing it.
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On September 05 2010 22:36 SubtleArt wrote:
So, assuming there was no controversy, when would the proleague usually start?
Also, it's seriously painful to see all these hopelessly uninformed Sc2 players make ridiculous assumptions and baseless accusations towards KESPA.
proleague starts early october
last year it was 10/10
they got a month 
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On September 05 2010 22:36 SubtleArt wrote:
So, assuming there was no controversy, when would the proleague usually start?
Also, it's seriously painful to see all these hopelessly uninformed Sc2 players make ridiculous assumptions and baseless accusations towards KESPA.
Well, your standard uninformed SC2 player reporting right here.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching BW well before the news of SC2 development ever started. I like the culture and the vibe Korean progaming scene has managed. It's a culture that transcends your standard gamers and into mainstream society in SKorea, something I admire and respect the organisations for achieving it.
However, I really hated how KESPA hold all the players hostage and refuse to let them even try SC2. If let's say Bisu, Jaedong or Flash tries it, let us see the maximum potential the current S-rank BW players can achieve in SC2, and we find it BAD and goes back to BW, I will have nothing to say and trash talk SC2 as well. Do we even get that chance? I was furious when they pulled Nada out of the TLO showmatch. Why should we, the audience, the players, the Joe Schmoes be denied of possibilities because of their (all parties involved) petty politics and dictator-like behaviour?
The way I see it is, let's give KESPA the win and they managed to keep all that is current and progress from there. How much longer can they have? another 10 years? Do you people really see BW remaining in the mainstream for another 10 years? If so, how about 20 years? 30 more years on a fast evolving PC platform? What happens when one day players will have to downgrade their PC to play BW? *coughWindows7cough*
Will BW die? I hope not, I really wish the faze and excitement can last forever. But as all things in nature atrophy, so will BW one day, and I rather Blizzard take the helm and attempt to continue their IP and work WITH the Korean scene to prolong not only their product line, but also to sustain the progaming/e-sports culture. To push a product line that not only existing players can relate, adapt to and familiar with, but also further establish and expand an e-sport super-centre in SKorea where one day I can go on a pilgrimage to. Not a tomb of past-glories.
And I do want the Starcraft Universe to last forever.
Peace
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On September 04 2010 14:02 FishForThought wrote:
Why would they unlikely freeze all operations? Court battle would be between Gretech vs Kespa, both are domestic Korean companies, so there won't be any bias and one of them has a law binding contract that states that they get exclusive rights to broadcast the starcraft franchise. Also, Kespa being the non-profit organization, where would they get the money for a court battle?
Kespa gets its money from sponsors to host proleague, a tax from the proteams to be a member of Kespa and the Korean Ministry of Culture funds them. I suppose they got money from IEG for the broadcasting rights too. These companies spend money on Kespa/their teams because it's recognized as non-profit by the government and thus these companies also get tax breaks. Contrary to popular belief, they do not get money from advertising because they have no venue to advertise with; OGN and MBC get the money from advertisements.
Kespa is funded by multi-billion dollar corporations, if it was strictly about a fair amount of money, they would have probably agreed already. Obviously the member companies found their other terms unreasonable.
On September 05 2010 23:42 gyth wrote:Yes, 4.4% versus 3%, but thats apparently due to recent law changes, it used to be a larger separation. Thats what I read in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496 but I (and you?) don't speak Korean, so trying to track down an actual source is likely futile. P.S. Is there a prize pool for PL at all? The teams would be compensated by advertising exposure even if they were just playing for pride/bragging rights.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142000
- I heard now there are tax breaks for amateur leagues as well.
▲ Until now, only progamers had the 3.3% special tax rate. However, since the law changed in 2009, if a lot of players compete in a league, only 20% of the earnings are able to be taxed at 22% rate. That means you'll only have to pay 4.4% as tax. This is already being applied to all of the amateur leagues in Korea. So the players participating won't have to worry about losing a lot of money to tax.
The previous rate was ~22% on all their earnings. This changes if the prizes go over 100m won iirc.
There is a prize pool for winning PL.
It's strange that people see that Gretech as acting on their own. You don't think Blizzard is keeping tabs on their sole "partner" in Korea? If the whole point of Blizzard vs Kespa is about control, you think they just sold the contracts to Gretech and let them have free reign?
Also, the same terms to Gretech and OGN are not the same as to Kespa and MBC, because the former do not own any teams.
It's kinda funny because if Kespa and Blizzard worked together, it would be mutually beneficial to everyone. The pros would get a chance another game while continuing to be sponsored, the fans would be getting much better SC2 games, easier access to them and still get BW games, Kespa would get another game under their umbrella to promote e-sports with (regardless of what people may believe, BW is losing momentum) and legitimize their BW tournaments, and Blizzard would get 12 corporate teams willing to play their game officially and access to the cable networks.
As it is right now, several members of Kespa have used their clout to stop OGN from broadcasting GSL. I have heard that Mike Morhaime is meeting with the Ministry of Culture though, so I hope this shit gets sorted out.
Edit:
On September 06 2010 02:09 PandaPolice wrote:
However, I really hated how KESPA hold all the players hostage and refuse to let them even try SC2.
They can't stop them from trying SC2, they are however forced to stop them from playing SC2 publicly in Korea because Gretech holds the rights to it.
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On September 05 2010 18:26 FishForThought wrote:Have you thought for a second that if it goes to court it is because Gretech wants to fight for their own interest? Blizzard is not behind every unsolved crime in the world and blaming them for giving Gretech the contract after Kespa refused it isn't going to reverse time and give Kespa a second chance to accept the offer. Show nested quote +
The pro-gaming license was created to give progamers an important tax break on their tournament winnings, not to "alienate people." It was an important step in truly professionalizing the game, something that giving more people the chance to compete won't do, especially if the team structure is dissolved. Also, football and tennis are established sports while esports is not. It's rarely seen as a legitimate activity, and an officially recognized progaming license is one of the things that helps to overcome that view.
So GomTV winnings have a higher tax rate than PL winnings? You'll have to give me a source to that. The license didn't really do anything to professionalize the game, if you earn your pro-gamer license you still pretty much can't participate in the leagues without a team sponsor and if you do get sponsor, you get your license for free. Basically, the whole professional scene is based on whether you are lucky enough to get scouted by the kespa teams. You claim that BW is an esport thus, it should be treated like any other sport (free use and such) yet you admit that esport is not an "established sport" (so you need to keep pampering it). You need to make up your mind, if it is a sport, then regardless of Kespa's presence it will persist, if it is not a real sport then you have to accept that it is in blizzard's right to regulate it. Show nested quote +
And who cares about Joe Schmoe? People complaining about Flash vs Jaedong have no interest in him, they simply want other top progamers in the finals -- certainly not some random gamer.
Joe Schmoe are the people on these forums that read strategies, practice every day, play in whatever tournament they can to improve themselves, only to find that they can never compete professionally or reach professional status, because the door to pro-gaming is only open to a select few that happens to be born in the right country and be at the right place at the right time.
*Sigh*, you're once again writing utter rubbish and showing you know nothing about broodwar if you're not a troll you're some blizzard employee, anyway you're not a fan of broodwar or a person who knows anything about it.
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On September 05 2010 16:02 FishForThought wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2010 12:06 KissBlade wrote:On September 04 2010 08:11 FishForThought wrote:On September 04 2010 05:01 MamiyaOtaru wrote:On September 04 2010 04:18 FishForThought wrote:On September 04 2010 04:06 hitthat wrote:On September 04 2010 02:58 FishForThought wrote:
Also for the last time, they don't want a piece of the pie. They just want to moderate who makes the pie with their pan. Blizzard has enough money, they don't want more money ; in fact, they dumped money to GOM for bigger tournament prizes and such.
WAIT, WHAT??? Do we speak about the same Activision Blizzard? Wake up! Besides, if Blizz doesnt want some piece of the pie, than why they even intervened in first place? Do you really are such naive, that you dont see they just dont tolerate home war between SC:BW and SC2 legues? They really want SC1 to die, becouse its, ironically, game that slows down SC2 reign in Korea. Don't you see that's not about KESPA, but all about Proleague? Also for the last time, they don't want a piece of the pie. They just want to moderate who makes the pie with their pan. Blizzard has enough money, they don't want more money ; in fact, they dumped money to GOM for bigger tournament prizes and such. This really is the dumbest. Since Broodwar and balance patches. Try playing sc v 1.0 without broodwar or patches and see how balanced things are. All credit to them for that of course. But keep in mind the last balance patch was released 9 years ago. All balance changes since then have come from players and mapmakers (which conveniently is hindered in SC2 since they control what maps are to be played) If money is their priority, then they would of accepted Kespa's original offer of giving them just money. Instead, they opted for control and moderation such as Kespa needs permission from blizzard to host certain tournaments which Kespa does not like and rejects. control leads to money. You are delusional if you don't think that's the end goal. REGARDLESS them wanting to assert control over something they did not help in building up is also not super noble seeming to me. They made the game which is awesome, but the whole structure of professional BW e-sports was built up with a lot of sacrifice from people who are not Blizzard. I don't really care what their motivation is, they are moving to tear that structure down. I think their end-goal is have a global awareness of e-sport with their game, thus they want GOMTV to continue with English Commentators, amateur leagues, leagues that doesn't require a pro-gaming license to participate. I also think blizzard is willing to sacrifice royalties and a significant amount of money to create partners like Gretech to achieve this. But hey I might be wrong, but it sounds more plausible than one you paint them: where Blizzard investors/employees sits on top of a pile of cash lighting their cigars with 100 dollar bills. I'll use the pie analogy again. Kespa bakes pie, they use Blizzard's pan to bake them. Blizzard wants to have some say in what kind of pie they bake with their pan, Kespa says no.. so blizzard gave the pan to Gretech. I won't add in the fact that Kespa was using the pan without consent since blizzard isn't suing them for that but It all comes down to: Does blizzard have the right to approve what pie Kespa bake with their pan and was Kespa being too stupid/stubborn to accept Blizzard's offer. I vote the latter. On September 04 2010 06:12 zenMaster wrote:
FishForThought is either a troll or a Blizzard employee. Ironically, this is coming from someone who just posted a one liner that has no relevance to this topic. It stands to little surprise that your account is not only recent but largely vested in this topic making me suspect that I was correct and you ARE likely a Blizzard plant. That or just REALLY REALLY living in a fantasy world. Your claim that they just desire the growth of e-sports is interesting considering they ARE TRYING TO KILL IT BY THIS VERY ACT. Especially the part where you claim they don't care about royalties since that seems to me what has been largely their ongoing issue! As for leagues that don't require pro-league license to operate. YEAH THAT SURE WORKS OUT for the credibility of your players. It really means a lot that you beat Joe Schmoe #2349273423. So NO, your idea is NOT more plausible. It hasn't been plausible the moment you suggested Blizzard doesn't care about making more money. I find it funny that you gave no evidence or insight to why my claims are wrong. All you are doing is screaming "YOU ARE WRONG, I AM RIGHT!". What evidence do you have that esport won't survive without kespa? What claims do you have that they solely want more money
I never said SOLELY more money. However you are just delusional if you think money doesn't have a large part to do with it. That's why you keep trying to obfuscate the issue by sayhing control or what not. I also LOVE how you inserted the word "solely" after you realize your argument doesn't fly so you're trying to change it midway. And you really need evidence on how I'm right about this? How about the fact that they're a corporation and their main goal is to GENERATE PROFITS?
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On September 05 2010 21:50 snowdrift wrote:
Gretech and Blizzard's interests largely coincide: Gretech wants SC2 to replace BW, so does Blizzard. That doesn't mean that some Blizzard suit is on the phone giving orders, but Gretech is doing what Blizzard can't do directly.
Again, Blizzard doesn't care who broadcasts Starcraft in korea, as long as they have some say in the broadcast. If Kespa does broadcast without consent and Gretech sues, it is not about Sc2 vs Bw, it is simply about broadcasting rights on an IP.
Team practice partners are expected to pass Courage and officialize their status with a license. And those that get scouted aren't "lucky," they're in top clans and often live in semipro houses and draw attention because they're the best. Semipro houses -- more infrastructure that wouldn't exist if there wasn't a clear path to becoming a progamer. And anyway you're denouncing a situation which will be even more pronounced if there is no official status or license at all. Doesn't make sense.
The very definition of professional is "following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain". Passing Courage and getting your pro-gamer license doesn't let you follow the "occupation as a mean of livelihood", it simply means you are allow to participate in their tournaments (which you can't without being picked by kespa's teams).
Pro-gamer license would actually mean something if it allows you to enter an organization which would set you up with sponsors that would give you a "mean of livelihood" but right now this license is pointless as it does not differentiate you from a professional or not. The Tax reduction is no longer needed as well, since the law change, people get taxed 4.4% vs 3.3%. The only thing it does do right now is alienating and stopping people from participating in the individual leagues
Where did I say any of this? You're confusing me with another poster.
Well. you admit that esport is not an established sport. I might of made some assumptions.. my bad.
Although I don't think you are, I can understand why people think you're a plant with these kind of carefully calibrated appeals to the masses that you've written here and in other threads. More importantly, this high-minded political campaign speech is completely baseless: on this very site, which SC2 tournament gets the most attention; which tournament are people most excited about? The GSL -- a Korean tourney with mostly high-level Korean players and Idra, who's fame derives from him being on a Korean proteam. People want to see the best. Hell, in a TL poll which asked, "which tournament was better, IEM Cologne or MLG Raleigh," over 70% of the votes went to IEM, and while people lauded the MLG's atmosphere, they thought IEM had the better players and better games. And that's what they want to watch.
Also, the "door to progaming" is open to everyone: KeSPA never controlled anything in other countries, so it's not their fault that progaming didn't take off in Europe or North America or somewhere else. This idea that killing them off will kickstart progaming in the rest of the world is just a lurid fantasy entertained by people hating on the Korean scene's success.
I ignore the 'plant' comments as the only reason I am posting is to create a meaningful debate, not to advocate for blizzard or gretech.
You are right, people want to see the best. They also want to see new people topple over the kings like how bisu toppled savior. Having more people compete gives more chance for
1. New players to take out famed players
2. New players get noticed by sponsors.
Back in the medieval days, countries would host 'sport' competitions where they invite everyone to participate. Obviously, most of the time the athletes sponsored by the Kings and nobles would usually win, but rare occasions some stranger (Joe Schmoe) in the country side would come and take the prize. This ignited mass's interest in the sport and competition and gave people hope that they can eventually be that random stranger and this is how true sports are made.
Kespa's PL tournaments are similar except they alienate people and only allow people sponsored by 'kings and nobles' to join . Kespa's way of doing things actually derails BW into becoming an established e-sport. Do I think they should be killed off? No, but i think they should change, and expand to make the game appeal outside of Korea instead of being stuck in their three league bubble.
If you are going to tell me that they already did, and TL is the testament to them reaching out to foreigners, then I would say you are full of BS. For the last 12 years, Kespa didn't provide any english commentators for their games, they didn't invite any foreigners to participate and they made no effort to reach out to the foreigner world.
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On September 06 2010 03:57 FishForThought wrote:
Back in the medieval days, countries would host 'sport' competitions where they invite everyone to participate. Obviously, most of the time the athletes sponsored by the Kings and nobles would usually win, but rare occasions some stranger (Joe Schmoe) in the country side would come and take the prize. This ignited mass's interest in the sport and competition and gave people hope that they can eventually be that random stranger and this is how true sports are made.
Again, wtf are you talking about? Back in the middle ages and renaissance period (12th to 16th centuries) tournaments were open to royalty (Knights, Lords, etc). Your Joe Schmoe peasants weren't welcome as competitors (why the fuck are you still using that term btw).
Your biggest gripe seems to be that the level of competition in BW is high, and so if the average person sucks balls he won't make the A-team, boo fucking hoo. You want to break into esports in korea? enter Courage, its hosted once a month. If you win, you get your license, but even if you don't and make it far enough, you can get scouted and offered a position. Up until this bullshit started, which led to uncertainty this past season and thus a smaller draft this year, there have been a fair bit of players drafted due to their skill but not actually winning courage. Teams do have a couple of licenses they can give out a year..
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France2061 Posts
What
are you smoking
Medieval tourneys? For realz?
You completely avoided my argument about people wanting to watch the best players and set up a big distraction there. You also kept up the "alienation" red herring even though I explained that the players scouted by KeSPA are top clan players and such -- the most deserving Joe Schmoes. You failed to really address any of my points.
And you really, really sound like a plant, all the more so when all of your posts are about the Gretech/KeSPA dispute. You're also much too smooth and deliberate in the way you obfuscate.
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FishForThought is obviously a plant.
Does he even know how high the level of competition is? I suggest he research about Idra, the top foreigner, and how far he made it into the BW progaming scene before spouting his medieval foreigner alienating bullshit.
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France2061 Posts
On September 06 2010 03:57 FishForThought wrote:
If you are going to tell me that they already did, and TL is the testament to them reaching out to foreigners, then I would say you are full of BS. For the last 12 years, Kespa didn't provide any english commentators for their games, they didn't invite any foreigners to participate and they made no effort to reach out to the foreigner world.
Elky never happened
Legionnaire never happened
(they were playing after KPGA/KeSPA was formed)
Artosis wasn't hired by IEG, and they didn't recruit Idra on their team
Samsung, part of KeSPA, doesn't run WCG, which was the biggest regular Brood War event for foreigners -- and that's where your Joe Shmoes faced the Koreans, and they got smashed.
You're in way over your head pal
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EPT
