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Now I know that battle-cruisers will be nerfed in the following patch, nevertheless I think it would be a much bigger help if SCVs simply wouldn't be allowed to repair air-units
if you can't imagine why I would bring up something like that in a unique thread just watch this replay:
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/906
tester vs augustwerra; the terran hides a starport and although tester scouted the fusion core he lost to a single battle-cruiser who was surrounded by SCVs and therefore constantly repaired; the terran even microed horribly at the beginning starting the repair way to late and still tester wasn't even close to win the fight, although he had stalkers and void rays and the terran had no anti-air besides the battle-cruiser
I'm aware that I'm sounding like a whiny little protoss-player right now, but battlecruisers getting auto-repaired by SCVs during a fight owning everything just because of the repair.....that just feels so wrong....
what do you think?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
reopened, dno why it was closed to begin with
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Its one of the advantages of terran, yes it can be annoying, but everything can be exaggerated imo.
No im not terran, zerg actually, but I think feedback can be made to look OP as well, 5 temps behind your army and 1/2 of the terran units are drained of all energy and either damaged or destroyed.
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No, they should just repair much slower and have diminishing returns.
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On September 06 2010 19:41 Plexa wrote:
reopened, dno why it was closed to begin with
Close it again, don't want this battlecruiser business catching on ladder 
Just watched his game on stream... scary.
On September 06 2010 19:45 Bensio wrote:
Its one of the advantages of terran, yes it can be annoying, but everything can be exaggerated imo.
No im not terran, zerg actually, but I think feedback can be made to look OP as well, 5 temps behind your army and 1/2 of the terran units are drained of all energy and either damaged or destroyed.
EMP > Feedback. While on topic of BC's and templars... Could you have HT's out by the time BC attack comes? Would storm be ready? Would be a nice way to take care of the SCV's//MM You'd have a feedback to throw at the BC after SCVs were dead too.
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On September 06 2010 19:41 Plexa wrote:
reopened, dno why it was closed to begin with
thanks - didn't want to appear like a crybaby in the other thread, but I think this strat is really a strong new addition to the terran-arsenal
I don't wanna start with shouting "imba", but the main problem we can see from the replay is, that the BC can be moved back in order to be repaired, while eg. void rays would meanwhile get roasted by the MM-ball; I'm not really sure how I would play against it, probably go for a timing-push and surprise the terran in his own base before he can get a critical mass of MM to support
EDIT: feedback does in fact seem like a good idea; will remember it when I meet BCs
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If anything the SCVs should have be given the highest attack priority.
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Grats on the reopening. You did call this, a week before it happened, so grats on that as well.
Honestly, I think the SCVs should have a diminishing returns on air units because it isn't exactly fair that they have a MASSIVE repair area for BCs. You can repair a BC with about 12-15 at a time.
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Yes, a wide-ranging fix is needed for a specific "problem." I hope Blizzard doesn't touch this game for a bit and lets people develop actual counters rather than rushing in to fix every "imba" immediately. Boxer's bunker rushes didn't need to be patch nerfed by making bunkers unrepairable, they were nerfed by better micro and actual changes in zergs idea of how to defend,.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 06 2010 19:45 CurLy[] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 19:41 Plexa wrote:
reopened, dno why it was closed to begin with Close it again, don't want this battlecruiser business catching on
as a Protoss player, I kinda agree LOL
August really showing just how strong they are. I would offer up a replay of my crushing a similar strategy, but I can't find it  nevertheless, it's a real pain to deal with. Basically involved making a lot of stalker/sentry and using FF to stop the SCVs from repairing the BCs. If the Terran was any good he would have retreated the BC, but he didn't.
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On September 06 2010 19:48 cz wrote:
Yes, a wide-ranging fix is needed for a specific "problem." I hope Blizzard doesn't touch this game for a bit and lets people develop actual counters rather than rushing in to fix every "imba" immediately. Boxer's bunker rushes didn't need to be patch nerfed by making bunkers unrepairable, they were nerfed by better micro and actual changes in zergs idea of how to defend,.
I think Blizzard has definitely shown so far that they are willing to wait, so I really hope they do, especially with a -2 change already coming.
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I think it would be easier to just nerf mass-repair, that way we wont end up with Thor with ~100 kills, and it would lower the ammount of allins a Terran has at his disposal (such as mara-scv-hellion, tank-scv-marine thor-scv-whatever etc...) and it solves your problem as well
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On September 06 2010 19:50 Plexa wrote:Basically involved making a lot of stalker/sentry and using FF to stop the SCVs from repairing the BCs. If the Terran was any good he would have retreated the BC, but he didn't.
since you are probably a much better player than I am....have you tried feedback, if no why not if yes, how did it go?
another question: can the yamato-cannon be used on friendly units/buildings and/or neutral units/buildings? because then obviously the terran could get rid of the energy before the battle
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I think diminishing returns for repairing stuff is a good idea, it would be kinda like the compensation for autorepair. I would even think that it should count for all units, not just air, it's just as annoying when used on thors or PFs, as both offer a huge space, rendering melee units useless while requiring no micro ar all.
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On September 06 2010 19:56 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 19:50 Plexa wrote:Basically involved making a lot of stalker/sentry and using FF to stop the SCVs from repairing the BCs. If the Terran was any good he would have retreated the BC, but he didn't. since you are probably a much better player than I am....have you tried feedback, if no why not if yes, how did it go? another question: can the yamato-cannon be used on friendly units/buildings and/or neutral units/buildings? because then obviously the terran could get rid of the energy before the battle
Its just like a standard attack, can hit whatever you want. The range is pretty large you would probably just be able to use it normally while dodging the scary HTs. Also feedback won't be effective till there aren't a ball of SCV's to repair it unless it had like full energy or you had stalkers to move in and snipe it.
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the scv priority is the only thing which needs a fix
tester lost that game because he FE against a BC rush, and didn't apply pressure to see what the terran was doing. by the time his observer arrived and scouted the fusion core iirc it was far too late.
watched the replay a few days ago, i didn't really study it, but unless i'm mistaken tester had about 3 voidrays out and failed at micro and only target fired scv's when he had 1 left.
i know tester is a great player but after watching a bunch of his replay's he's really vulnerable to cheesey builds. he goes standard passive almost every game and gets punished.... that's what should happen.
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disallowing scvs to repair air units is a horrible and also illogical idea.
if you want to nerf them the disallow air units to ATTACK while being repaired. perhaps force the air units to land in order to be repaired.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 06 2010 19:56 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 19:50 Plexa wrote:Basically involved making a lot of stalker/sentry and using FF to stop the SCVs from repairing the BCs. If the Terran was any good he would have retreated the BC, but he didn't. since you are probably a much better player than I am....have you tried feedback, if no why not if yes, how did it go? another question: can the yamato-cannon be used on friendly units/buildings and/or neutral units/buildings? because then obviously the terran could get rid of the energy before the battle Feedback is a lot less effective than you might think. With 550 HP, at the very best you're looking at killing 200 HP (i.e. taking it down to 350). Since the idea behind a BC rush is to attack asap once the BC is out, it's not going to have full mana and you're going to do around 100 damage with a feedback - not really worth the investment =/. Feedback is overrated against BCs unfortunately. Storm, despite its lower damage, is a lot more useful because it hits the scvs underneath the BC and kills them although most times you won't have storm before the BC comes knocking at your door.
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On September 06 2010 20:01 chrisSquire wrote:
disallowing scvs to repair air units is a horrible and also illogical idea.
if you want to nerf them the disallow air units to ATTACK while being repaired. perhaps force the air units to land in order to be repaired.
I agree it would be much too harsh to disallow it. T relies heavily on air in many games and the repair function is just a part of playing T.
The problem is the repair box on a BC/ thor. 12 SCVs repairing a BC is kinda silly, there should be a limit imo.
Also... august mentioned that SCVs repair units faster than buildings. T/F? too lazy/sleepy to login and test
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Since the idea behind a BC rush is to attack asap once the BC is out, it's not going to have full mana and you're going to do around 100 damage with a feedback - not really worth the investment =/.
true didn't thought about that the BC doesn't arrive with full energy.....storm definitely won't be ready unless you are going for a really fast tech, that's for sure; you're right, mass-force-fields to prevent any kind of scv-clustering beneath the BC really seem like your best bet
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EPT
