• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:54
CEST 18:54
KST 01:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0
StarCraft 2
General
Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group A [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group B RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans?
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 19050 users

Marauder vs Firebat

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
terranghost
Profile Joined May 2010
United States980 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-14 19:33:37
June 14 2010 19:22 GMT
#1
The firebat in starcraft 1
The firebat's role in starcraft 1 was early and late support vs melee units. The firebat itself I did not see too many people use. I for one found them extremally useful. They helped versus early lots they were able to do damage to zerglings under dark swarm. All bat bunkers at a choke basically denied lings acess.

The Marauder in starcraft 2
The Marauder seems to have a similar role it has the ability to kite melee units with the slow down although it has a bit more micro involved. It also has the additional damage done to armored units. It can also stand up to psi storm better.

The marine
The marine has an advantage in both sc1 and 2 that their tier 1.5 support unit does not have which is the ability to attack air. The marine in comparison to the fire bat did 4 less damage then the firebat against a single (light amrored) target but the firebat had the advantage of splash damage. So if your opponent went heavy on the light armored ground a couple of bats in the mix was quite helpful. (imo)

When comparing the Marauder with the marine we will use 2 marines as the firebat was 50/25 and the Marauder is 100/25. The marines in comparison with the Marauder do about 4 more damage then the Marauder against armored targets and against light its not even worth talking about.

The issue
(before anyone starts whining about it no I don't turtle up I push out relatively quick and this is a talk about the Marauder vs the firebat so please leave the mech whining for another thread)

Personally I don't use the Marauder very much anyway i prefer to go mech. I forsee something happening eventually when the game gets released as the Marauder will eventually disappear from use as the marines dish out more damage on average.
Granted Marauder dps remains the same over time while the moment one of the rines in the pair die the dps will go down. However you can build rines so much faster they have the ability to attack air. A pair of rines can be built faster then a Marauder (reactor) and you usually have spare minerals anyway (especially with mules)
The point is that you can have way more rines that dish out more dps and it doesn't use any of your valuable vespene your tech lab raxes can build ghosts instead.


Just want to hear peoples thoughts on this. Reducing the Marauder's damage and giving it splash would help this situation but in that case why not just bring back the firebat. Why?!? because this is a new game. I for one am sad that the firebat didnt make a return but there enough returning units already there is no need for it to come back.

So if my fear is accurate that eventually during sc2 upon release that the Marauder will see very limited use. (kiting melee units, stopping retreats and living during psi storm are the only uses I see for it now) What change could we give the unit to not see it disappear from use.

Edit: The point of this thread is simply to see if the Marauder should be changed so it doesn't stop getting used eventually or not.
"It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it." - Thomas Sowell
Meatloaf
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Spain664 Posts
June 14 2010 19:29 GMT
#2
you are not taking in consideration that against P he can use guardian shield that makes your marines almost useless against zealots , those especcialy will rape the shit out of them.

If you had marauders you could kite the zealots and laugh on the guardian shields.

Marines are the backbone of any terran bio army , but i do not see the marauder as a limited use option , I would agree on the Reaper right now , but not on the marauder as it combines really well with marine and its really useful , against Protoss especially IMHO.
OpRaider
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States307 Posts
June 14 2010 19:29 GMT
#3
the marauder fits a completely different role than firebat in mm.

if the enemy is heavy in armored units, your mm group should contain a lot more marauders to do more damage.
if the enemy is heavy in light units, your mm group should still contain some marauders, to tank for your marines.

and as you said, they do slow down enemies, that does help against melee, but its not the melee counter...you need marines to do the damage.

it is what it is -day9 airplane story
BlasiuS
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States2405 Posts
June 14 2010 19:30 GMT
#4
Not sure what the point of the thread is? You want the firebat back? Or do you think the marauder needs to be changed to be more like the firebat?

While the marauder might be underused, it's only because mech builds and 1/1/1 openings are 'in style' right now.

Marauders are must-have if you go bio, they are one of the most cost-efficient units in the game.

But obviously you aren't going to use marauders when you go mech, because you'll be behind on upgrades. And they aren't really necessary if you go 1/1/1, because you use tanks as your primary anti-armored unit.
next week on Everybody Loves HypnoToad:
Brutus
Profile Joined May 2010
Netherlands284 Posts
June 14 2010 19:31 GMT
#5
I think Terran has enough splash damage as it is. I don't think you should compare firebats with marauders, because imo the helion takes that place.

I think the marauder has enough power as it is. You aren't considering the extra shots it can do before the enemy is close enough ( conc. shells) and because of the slower fire rate it can kite very effectively.
kajeus
Profile Joined May 2010
United States679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-14 19:33:03
June 14 2010 19:32 GMT
#6
Hahaha, somebody just watched the Day9 Daily from yesterday.

Dude, just because one guy makes good use of marines and ghosts against Protoss players who NEVER build colossi does NOT mean that the marauder has no use. The marauder is just so much more durable than the marine. It does do a decent amount of damage to armoured units, and its slow ability is so important in so many battles.

So I fear for the fate of your thread.
pro-MoMaN, pro-HuK, pro-Millenium
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
June 14 2010 19:34 GMT
#7
Wait,You want Marauder buff,right? Good Lord,when TL became BNET forums?
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
Talic_Zealot
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
688 Posts
June 14 2010 19:36 GMT
#8
^^If he had watched it (or at least the whole episode) he would know that marauders are one possible transition from that opening.
There are three types of people in the universe: those who can count, and those who cant.
Yokoblue
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada594 Posts
June 14 2010 19:40 GMT
#9
I dont think you really know the way of playing marauders.

Marauders are used for :
-Tanking the damage : against light and tanking splash or etc coming from helions, tanks and even storms or any splash if you dont have marauders you will get own by helions and storms and tanks... a tank can almost 1 shot kill 4 rine ... have to 3-4 shots marauders... so its really good to tanks. Hydras kill rine prety fast too and marauders arent good vs them... but tank really well.

-Vs Armored : Marine just arent even against stalker - roaches and others armored units. Marauders is there for that.

-Against hard counter to marine : Like i said in the 2 previous point... there is some really good counter against mass rine. Baneling - Helion - Tank - stalkers just to name a few... Marauders are good vs all that.

I really dont think they need splash... since helion got it... if marauders get splash... get the vulture back... and if you got the mara do splash... just rename it firebat... Like you said... thats another game... even if they didnt change it that much regarding the vulture-firebat-mara-helions combo.
Master League playing Protoss and Zerg
Sputty
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada161 Posts
June 14 2010 19:43 GMT
#10
Marauder's main advantage over marines is their ability to easily run and shoot and do their damage in microable bursts unlike marines which need constant fire. They're better at surviving every AOE attack that's good against bio. They may not be as used early on as they used to be but they will not be phased out of terran play
Cain0
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom608 Posts
June 14 2010 19:44 GMT
#11
I think that it would be more logical to compare the firbat to the hellon, since they are extremely similar.
Cheezy
Profile Joined May 2009
Sweden112 Posts
June 14 2010 19:44 GMT
#12
why are you even comparing the marauder to the firebat?

marauder is fine, and it sure as hell won't "gradually disappear from being used"
HaGuN
Profile Joined April 2010
United States154 Posts
June 14 2010 20:29 GMT
#13
i don't see the marauder not being used in the future as a problem because its a great transition unit in timing attacks, it also can serve as a shield for tanks and marines. we not see as many early marauder builds or mass rauder builds because of enemies learning to scout army comps and reacting with fast air. they were almost always a midgame unit, and preferable to be macroed out in the transition phase to mech.
"Also Zerg has won recently so I don't understand why Zerg is receiving a buff."-BoxeR
intrigue
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-14 20:34:33
June 14 2010 20:32 GMT
#14
you want marauders to have splash because they aren't used enough. what am i supposed to do here?
Moderatorhttps://soundcloud.com/castlesmusic/sets/oak
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 6m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 389
ProTech76
JuggernautJason39
MindelVK 35
EnDerr 28
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 6937
Sea 3051
Hyuk 1446
Rain 1203
Soulkey 166
Zeus 101
HiyA 58
hero 39
Yoon 35
TY 33
[ Show more ]
Nal_rA 20
scan(afreeca) 13
IntoTheRainbow 10
Noble 5
zelot 5
Dota 2
Gorgc6839
qojqva3002
League of Legends
Dendi1567
Counter-Strike
fl0m5952
olofmeister2468
Foxcn374
rGuardiaN99
Super Smash Bros
Chillindude40
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor178
Other Games
FrodaN791
C9.Mang0780
Mlord570
crisheroes349
Hui .165
Fuzer 156
ArmadaUGS122
Mew2King117
elazer114
Trikslyr98
KnowMe85
XaKoH 79
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream791
StarCraft 2
WardiTV709
Other Games
BasetradeTV31
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 12
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• IndyKCrew
• intothetv
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 25
• ZZZeroYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3275
• masondota2115
• lizZardDota278
League of Legends
• Nemesis5241
• Jankos3048
• TFBlade1266
Other Games
• Shiphtur123
Upcoming Events
OSC
4h 6m
ArT vs ReBellioN
HonMonO vs Ziomek
Shameless vs LunaSea
MilkiCow vs GgMaChine
Moja vs HiGhDrA
Jumy vs TBD
Demi vs NightPhoenix
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
7h 6m
OSC
7h 6m
WardiTV Invitational
18h 6m
HiGhDrA vs Nicoract
MaNa vs HiGhDrA
HiGhDrA vs Reynor
Nicoract vs Reynor
MaNa vs Nicoract
MaNa vs Reynor
MaxPax vs Spirit
Krystianer vs Spirit
OSC
20h 6m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 10h
SOOP
1d 16h
sOs vs Percival
CranKy Ducklings
1d 17h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 18h
Cheesadelphia
1d 22h
[ Show More ]
CSO Cup
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
5 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.