IMO if you just learn the basics of what is compatible with one another, you can go through Newegg's deals and combo discounts to get a full build that is cheaper than any recommended by a site or forum post, because those cannot take the short term special deals into account. My current computer was $1100 before the monitor, running a Phenom II X6, 4 GB DDR3 RAM, and a Sapphire HD5870. I could've got it down to $1000 easily if I were smart enough to read all the Newegg reviews to see that my HD5870 is stuck at stock volts, and gotten a HD5850 to overclock higher.
So if you're new at building computers, the main compatibility issues you should know are: 1. Sockets, chipsets, and CPUs. Intel's LGA1156 socket motherboards run the H5x and P55 chipsets. H55 and H57 are best for dual-core i3's and i5's, enabling their integrated graphics. P55 is used for the i5 750 and i7 8xx series (also the Xeon X3440), quad cores without integrated graphics. LGA1336 runs the X58 chipset, and these motherboards are exclusively for the i7 9xx series. LGA775 has been made obsolete by LGA1156, but back in the day it ran Core2(Duo/Quad) and the later Pentium 4's. For AMD, it's easier to remember: just get an AM3 board for any modern CPU recommended by a forum post or website. AM3 also is very likely to support AMD's next generation CPUs, an advantage over Intel whose new CPUs in 2011 will not run in current motherboards. 2. Types and quantities of RAM. Get DDR2 for any LGA775 or AM2 motherboard, DDR3 for any modern motherboard. 4 or 6 GB will work for LGA1366, otherwise go for 4 GB. 3. Will your motherboard support SLI/Crossfire? 4. Your power supply must provide enough power to your system, taking future SLI/crossfire possibilities into account. 5. Is your CPU cooler designed to work well with your CPU and motherboard?
That is all I can think of for new builds with recent parts. If you have really old parts and want to upgrade, it will probably not be worth it but there are additional things to worry about like AGP vs PCI-Express, SATA hard drives, whether or not your processor can run 64-bit windows, older motherboard sockets...
On May 12 2010 09:20 [cF]TridenT wrote: http://shop.revonate.com/default.asp I like this site thought it might be crappy gateway and acer comps that have been refurbished there are killer deals with little to know building needed. I got a i7 920, 9gb ram, NVIDIA GTX 260, 750gb hd, a legit operating system (vista yuck but hey its legit :D) For 717+ shipping(refurbished/scratch and dent). That was back in January. If you are on a budget there are plenty of comps in the 250-300 range that you just need to spend 100-150 on a PSU and a graphics card to run SC2 just fine =]
That site is amazing. You can get a gateway with a q9300, 4gb of ddr2-800 (while it is cheap oem brand) for only $283. That's cheaper than just the proc/memory on newegg. With a new psu/video card... amazing find. No overclocking though D:
On May 12 2010 08:44 Shivaz wrote: you can run starcraft 2 at ultra with 5770 @ 1920x1080 with pretty good frame rate (30+), and also you only need a 500w psu for 1 5770 (oops you mentioned a $1200 machine, thought you mentioned a 1200w psu, my bad ignore the 500w comment)
also if you want prove i just quickly youtubed this (looks like its 50s?, can't really tell from a youtube video.. i think its very playable)
You wouldn't want to run it at ultra you want to turn down shaders and lights to high, you get too much of a drop in fps when a large protoss army comes into play with lights on ultra, you also get large drops from creep.
5770 is best played at mostly ultra but not at ultra.
On May 12 2010 00:26 Luddite wrote: Do you think there's really much benefit to building a computer yourself from parts these days? Maybe for super high end systems there is, but it seems like for an average computer you can get the same performance cheaper by buying a stock computer.
It is 100% worth it. You will not only always get much better performance for your money, but much better quality parts. Dell/HP and whatnot will not use high quality motherboards and they will not use high quality power supplies. Their motherboards often have limited functionality and overclocking capabilities, and if they ever fail, they are expensive to replace because they are not standardized. Worse cooling in pre-built computers as well.
Do you have any sources to show that they use lower quality parts? Because their computers are definitely cheaper, and if it breaks, it'll probably be covered by the warranty, whereas whatever you build yourself you have to repair yourself.
Well I don't know about lower quality parts, but I know they don't "definitely cheaper". I just went on dell and picked a standard kind of computer they sell and made the same one myself on ncix and mine cost $200 dollars cheaper before tax. I checked some other computers they sell too and dell sells atleast $200ish or more for every single computer. and you mentioned warranty well ncix you can purchase a pc assembly and 1 year warranty for $41. (so you don't even have to build it yourself and you get a 1 year warranty which is the same dell offers).
Also i like how dell pretending its on sale for $999 instead of $1199 ROFL, also my ddr3 ram is faster
edit2: oh yeah i forgot to include a power supply assuming dell includes one too, so add a decent power supply for $100, and my computer is still cheaper by $100 and more for more enthusiast type computers.
it took me a while to figure out what you were doing here. I guess you're looking at the dell canada site, which has really different computers than their US site (and much worse deals, apparently). On the US site I can get basically the same computer as the build you listed for $900, with ddr3 ram. So, it's not any cheaper, but it doesn't make me want to do the extra work to build it myself.
Antec: Antec is a very trusted power supply retailer that is known for solid PSUs that perform above or at their stated wattage in general. Feel safe when you buy one!
EarthWatts 380D/430D/500D 80+ Bronze Certified: For smaller builds that do not require as much power. Of the Three power supplies, only the 500D has enough PCIe connectors (6 and 6+2 pin) for a graphics card that requires two. The 430D and 300D only have one PCIe (6 pin). All are 80+ Bronze which means that they will operate above 82% efficiency at all times. Should be from $50 from the lowest to $60ish to the highest. They are Sea Sonic OEMs as far as I know, which means they should have high quality parts and construction.
EarthWatts 650W 80+ Certified: For those medium builds to high builds that need the extra power for a graphics card like the ATi HD 5870 or something similar. It also has two PCIe connectors (6 and 6+2 pin). It is 80+ Certified which means it will operate at above 80% efficiency. It is a fairly cheap power supply at around $75 and it is decent quality. There are often combo deals with this power supply on Newegg and it is a fairly popular product. This power supply is not modular which means you will have to be able to hide the cables.
TruePower 650W/750W 80+ Bronze Certified: For the medium to high end builds that like the EarthWatts 650W need more power. Both of these power supplies have 4 PCIe connectors (2x 6 pin, 2x 6+2 pin). It is 80+ Bronze which means it will operate at above 82% efficiency. They go anywhere from $90 to $110 on Newegg depending on the time. They are generally good quality, and semi- modular, which should make cable management a bit easier. They however, are not fully modular (by the looks of it, 4-5 cables are hard wired). Anywhere from $100-110 on Newegg.
Corsair: Probably the most respected brand of PSU. Known for very high quality parts, and using CWT/Sea Sonic OEMs, which are two very well respected manufacturers. Generally comes at a price premium.
650TX 80+ Certified: Similar to the Antec Earthwatts. Almost the same actually because the features are much the same. It is priced around the same as well (sometimes around $10 more) which means it could be a difficult choice at times. The biggest differences between this and the EarthWatts 650W are that the Corsair has a single 12V rail vs the EarthWatt’s multi 12V rail (no idea what the difference is), and the Corsair has 2x 6+2 pins instead of 1x 6 pin and 1x 6+2 pin. It will be able to power a graphics card that requires two 8 pin connectors, but those are very rare so the difference is negligible. This is a CWT OEM, and is NOT modular. Anywhere from $70-90 on Newegg
750TX 80 + Certified: Similar to the 650TX, except different in two ways. It provides 100W of extra power, and it has 4x 6+2 pin which means it can power many different cards in a dual CrossFire/SLI mode. Anywhere from $90-110 on Newegg
650HX 80+ Bronze: Similar to the Antec 650W TruePower, but sports a single 12V rail as opposed to the 4 of the 650W TruePower. The major difference is that this power supply is almost fully modular which means that all of the cables except the essential 24 pin and 8 pin are added at your whim. Makes cable management much easier. Anywhere from $100-110 on Newegg.
750HX 80+ Silver (Gold): This sports 4x 6+2 pin, and while Corsair markets it as 80+ Silver, it is actually an 80+ Gold PSU. It is very similar to the 650HX except it is more power efficient, and provides more power. Anywhere from $140-170 on Newegg
Sea Sonic: Most respected PSU manufacturer for ‘people in the know’ because of rock solid PSU quality. Normally sells OEMs to retailers like Corsair and Antec, but also sells its own PSUs.
X650/X750 80+ Gold: Fully modular PSUs that sport 4x 6+2 Pin. It is the highest efficiency rating, and apparently the fan on the CPU doesn’t even turn on until it gets to like 300W load! Both are fully modular which means all of the cables come detached, and you add the ones you need. X650 around $160, X750 around $180 on Newegg.
It's a bit half assed but whatever. I'll see if I can add some Cooler Master and Silverstone sometime.
I'm not sure I really understand how this thread is going though because it seems to be traveling down 2 paths that I'm not sure make too much sense.
I would recommend against giving any general overview builds based on other users at all costs. They are actually fairly useless as starting points, and become outdated very quickly because of how quickly the prices change. The information is quickly obsolete, and quite frankly useless.
It would have been better if the parts were actually finished before the posting as well :/ Seems a bit half assed to me since all that was done was copying a few (obsolete) builds, an outdated piece from Tom's Hardware, and a few links...
Antec: Antec is a very trusted power supply retailer that is known for solid PSUs that perform above or at their stated wattage in general. Feel safe when you buy one!
EarthWatts 380D/430D/500D 80+ Bronze Certified: For smaller builds that do not require as much power. Of the Three power supplies, only the 500D has enough PCIe connectors (6 and 6+2 pin) for a graphics card that requires two. The 430D and 300D only have one PCIe (6 pin). All are 80+ Bronze which means that they will operate above 82% efficiency at all times. Should be from $50 from the lowest to $60ish to the highest. They are Sea Sonic OEMs as far as I know, which means they should have high quality parts and construction.
EarthWatts 650W 80+ Certified: For those medium builds to high builds that need the extra power for a graphics card like the ATi HD 5870 or something similar. It also has two PCIe connectors (6 and 6+2 pin). It is 80+ Certified which means it will operate at above 80% efficiency. It is a fairly cheap power supply at around $75 and it is decent quality. There are often combo deals with this power supply on Newegg and it is a fairly popular product. This power supply is not modular which means you will have to be able to hide the cables.
TruePower 650W/750W 80+ Bronze Certified: For the medium to high end builds that like the EarthWatts 650W need more power. Both of these power supplies have 4 PCIe connectors (2x 6 pin, 2x 6+2 pin). It is 80+ Bronze which means it will operate at above 82% efficiency. They go anywhere from $90 to $110 on Newegg depending on the time. They are generally good quality, and semi- modular, which should make cable management a bit easier. They however, are not fully modular (by the looks of it, 4-5 cables are hard wired). Anywhere from $100-110 on Newegg.
Corsair: Probably the most respected brand of PSU. Known for very high quality parts, and using CWT/Sea Sonic OEMs, which are two very well respected manufacturers. Generally comes at a price premium.
650TX 80+ Certified: Similar to the Antec Earthwatts. Almost the same actually because the features are much the same. It is priced around the same as well (sometimes around $10 more) which means it could be a difficult choice at times. The biggest differences between this and the EarthWatts 650W are that the Corsair has a single 12V rail vs the EarthWatt’s multi 12V rail (no idea what the difference is), and the Corsair has 2x 6+2 pins instead of 1x 6 pin and 1x 6+2 pin. It will be able to power a graphics card that requires two 8 pin connectors, but those are very rare so the difference is negligible. This is a CWT OEM, and is NOT modular. Anywhere from $70-90 on Newegg
750TX 80 + Certified: Similar to the 650TX, except different in two ways. It provides 100W of extra power, and it has 4x 6+2 pin which means it can power many different cards in a dual CrossFire/SLI mode. Anywhere from $90-110 on Newegg
650HX 80+ Bronze: Similar to the Antec 650W TruePower, but sports a single 12V rail as opposed to the 4 of the 650W TruePower. The major difference is that this power supply is almost fully modular which means that all of the cables except the essential 24 pin and 8 pin are added at your whim. Makes cable management much easier. Anywhere from $100-110 on Newegg. 750HX 80+ Silver (Gold): This sports 4x 6+2 pin, and while Corsair markets it as 80+ Silver, it is actually an 80+ Gold PSU. It is very similar to the 650HX except it is more power efficient, and provides more power. Anywhere from $140-170 on Newegg
Sea Sonic: Most respected PSU manufacturer for ‘people in the know’ because of rock solid PSU quality. Normally sells OEMs to retailers like Corsair and Antec, but also sells its own PSUs.
X650/X750 80+ Gold: Fully modular PSUs that sport 4x 6+2 Pin. It is the highest efficiency rating, and apparently the fan on the CPU doesn’t even turn on until it gets to like 300W load! Both are fully modular which means all of the cables come detached, and you add the ones you need. X650 around $160, X750 around $180 on Newegg.
It's a bit half assed but whatever. I'll see if I can add some Cooler Master and Silverstone sometime.
I'm not sure I really understand how this thread is going though because it seems to be traveling down 2 paths that I'm not sure make too much sense.
I would recommend against giving any general overview builds based on other users at all costs. They are actually fairly useless as starting points, and become outdated very quickly because of how quickly the prices change. The information is quickly obsolete, and quite frankly useless.
It would have been better if the parts were actually finished before the posting as well :/ Seems a bit half assed to me since all that was done was copying a few (obsolete) builds, an outdated piece from Tom's Hardware, and a few links...
Yeah it be easier to set price points then give several builds off those common price points
$600 $800 $1000 $1200 $1500 anything above that is just lol unless your running 30in monitors.
I'd just aim like $550 $750 $900 $1100 $1400 to account for shipping and or tax.
Only issue with assigning builds is that there are deals everyday which can be had along with price changes or other things that may come up that form week to week could change the viability of the build.
Generally just giving a good parts bad parts over view would be best then just listing builds. As different markets you can get different things like in Europe generally you see more builds with cooler master psu's in it i'm guessing a price difference and alot of brands price differently when it's in a different area.
gpu: 2 pieces of ati 5770hd, or maybe just one 5870hd, haven't really made up my mind yet.
psu:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102873&cm_re=5770_hd-_-14-102-873-_-Product (saw a good price on this part, but is it overkill to get a 650W unit?)
transfer speed 6 gb/s hard drives I believe are the newer format, not that many hard drives have been released, tested, and widely used that use that new format as far as I know, that could be wrong. It's like usb 3.0, a new feature which hasn't been really used yet
I use asus, some people prefer gigabyte, others like EVGA or MSI. Honestly, pick one with features that you like, colors that you like, and just remember that if you go 2x5770 you need at least 4 expansion slots, 2 of which must be pci-e that are spaced 2 slots apart (because your cards will each cover 2 slots) and the more spacing the better.
Well, when it comes to running multiple GPUs on P55 we could consider some more specific features on the mobo that might enable additional pcie lanes, but that's not particularly an issue with 2x 5770 if memory serves. But yeah...mobos are almost all the same at some point after you adjust for price and functionality some. Rather amusing that color should almost be a primary concern and the reason I am kind of regretting using EVGA instead of Gigabyte/Asus (I hate red, and I love blue )
yea i've read some conflicting statements about whether 2x5770 is limited by p55 or not, but they were mainly posts from forum users (on other forums) rather than actual articles...so meh.
i thought i'd post a little about a build i had about a few weeks ago
from canada, i order and pickup from a local NCIX (ncix.com) they do a pricematching service and have large discounts in weekly sales so basically if you find a price on newegg for the same part, you can file a pricematch request when you go for a bill, and they'll either match the price exactly (which happens in almost every case) or counter with a price that isn't 'below cost' to them i know that they ship reliably to the states too but filing RMA's or returning defects'll be more of a hassle than bringing it back to a local store.dependign on how badly you need the parts on say a weekend
anyway, this is a i3 system, ranging at about 800$ i don't have an invoice anymore, but i'll post some of the current prices for newegg, since they tend to be the cheapest.
totalling at about 755 before tax with rebates of about 45 i left out the harddrive, there's lots of options you have, but it hink the caviar black series (640gb?) is pretty popular at around the 80$ range
i3 is a newer dual core by intel, probably the last one they'll make which has hyperthreading (4 virtual cores) but only runs on two. comes in pretty high stock speeds and can be OC'ed close tot he 4ghz range on stock cooler, and up to about 4.2ghz on better cooling... it tasks well but the price is slightly higher than it should be for a dual core. similar to the i5 670, which is another part of the 'i' series witth an even higher stock speed. you always pay a little higher for new tech : ( but a solid cpu by review so far.... two options on the i3 being 530/540. only difference being the stock speeds, and the 540 seems to like at a higher multiplier when it comes to overclocking
ram is dd3 1600 at 9-9-9-24 really popular stick of ram, originall i chose a pair of ocz ddr3 at lower timings but ocz ram tends to come defected really often, and gskill is reliable haha.
video card is a 1gb card, similar to the 8800, 9800 series by nvidia, except upgraded to run at higher clock and memory speeds you have many good options on the ATI side for video cards at the 120-150$ price range, and even an older ATI card in crossfire will do better than the gts250 still the video card runs relatively cool , (33c idle, 45 load) and is supposed to be pretty energy efficient. also decent at sli//overlocking
haf 932 case by coolermaster is well designed, comes with a few 120-140mm fans at the side, top, and front for good air flow. (IMO the front red led fan runs louder than the rest, but they all can be replaced in many different styles) a tower e-atx case that supports all sizes down to itx or matx i believe. really nice hotswappable hard drive bays, and screwless design. i thinkt he only thing you need screws for is the side panels, which clamp on firmly and come with like 8 extra thumbscrews haha. again, lots of options for cooling, including top and bottom slots for power supply, top-mountable radiator for liquid cooling, and full honeycomb grills at the front, including the non-use drive bays.
the power supply is just a regular 700w rated at 80+ efficiency, which is becoming something of a standard now... it hink it's rated at 90+ actually at certain power ratings. modular which i really reccomend even if you're not going for a large build because the amount of wires attached to the PSU is minimal.... aaand has rubberized addon for anti-shock etc haha
the motherboard in the build is a p55 board even though the i3, i5 cpus come with integrated graphics (which can decode HD video supposedly) when added with a h55m board. the stupid thing is that the p55m-ud2 motherboard by gigabyte (brand i reccomend for mobo's) is matx (smaller than normal motherboards) for a eatx case (larger than normal) but.. that wasn't really my choice haha
overall you have a lot of choices when it comes to part under a certain spec these days, soemtimes several and soemtimes only a few good options that are really available. this sort of build has a lot of upgrade options like, adding another pair of ram sticks for 8gb total, adding anohter video card for SLI//crossfire even updating the CPU for a newer (lga1156 socketin this case) one if you really need to. all doable for maybe 500$ more tops. and should perform like a mid-high end computer, if not very comparable to high enders once overclocked
To be honest, that build has a huge amount of waste :/
You're getting a 700W powersupply for an extremely energy efficient CPU and GPU combo on a motherboard that only supports 1 GPU at a useable bandwidth.
You're getting a fulltower for a setup that puts out very little heat, and you are buying an mATX board.
Also a low end P55 board that really has no benefits over a decent H55 board (though they probably cost around the same).
You only really need P55 for an i5-750 or i7-860 etc. H55 is meant for the lower end cpus
You could cut alot of the price there but more realistically easily cut 100 by choosing different parts more if you want to just go aggressive at it but eh generally you cut some things to spend more on others.
I have nothing against getting a great case like HAF 932 cost a bit of money but then you don't need a new case for years.
A little bit less then your old build + now running a 5770 nearly the same psu but a 600w version 20 bucks off
you only need a 600w to crossfire a 5770, 40amps is plenty
75w+75 = 150w 2x= 300w
12v*40a = 480w
And knowing a thing or two about crossfire it will never get close to drawing 300w sli maybe would but sli has better gains for it.
It's okay to "over buy" on some parts if you are planning to rebuild again and will need the better parts for future use. I bought a bigger case and larger Corsair psu than I needed last time because I want to build an i5 system with a better video card in about 6 months. Assuming the following is still a great sweet spot by then:
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