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On December 23 2009 10:00 ManWithCheese wrote:Can someone just ban this troll already. Show nested quote +On December 23 2009 09:23 yhnmk wrote:
we already have fucking auto cast, mbs, auto mine, why the fuck should we have auto retreat. Auto build order too now, just compute what you fucking want before the game starts? Hey I know, just let a comp play for you with your strategies, better decides whos the "gooder" strategical master, non of that newb-bashing-elitist "playing the game" problems anymore. Just sit back, take a nap, and see what the fuck happens. If you're gonna go off on a rant atleast use correct information
Actually these are his first few posts. I doubt he'd be a troll considering he seems really passionate and intent on getting his message through..
And besides...debate is fun. It opens up ideas...albeit stupid ones, but at least it's....interesting to see what other people think about stuff that we don't like to think about.
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ababmer, you are flaming people who have been presenting rational arguments, and pointing out weaknesses in your own. rather than fixing your own platform, you just tell us to read your OP again as if there was something we missed.
starcraft is not a strategy game. starcraft is not a movie. starcraft is not a movie in which the player writes a script. starcraft is a real-time strategy game, where skill matters just as much as the actual strategy. lower tier players can go play with each other and have their even playing field there.
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This feature is already in SC2. Since you can control your whole army with one hotkey you can just move-click them to your base at any time.
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On December 23 2009 09:58 Ababmer wrote:
I DO NOT ACCUSE OF ELITIST STOP PEOPLE. STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.
Yes i agree that it is nice to watch, and yes i think it would be fun with 60apm because WoW's e-sport is very popular to watch.
And quantifiying fun can work because it is based on the fact that the majority do not want to worry about APM, they want to enjoy the look of game and have fun.
WHAT MAJORITY? Just because you think games like Counterstrike are more popular than Starcraft (which they are simply because they are easier) doesn't make those games BETTER, they are just EASIER. EASIER is not BETTER. Even in the context of a business like Blizzard, which have stockholders and quarterly profit statements, catering your game to everyone with an opposable thumb will not make the game "more enjoyable" for the "majority". Blizzard has to meet in the middle between the casual gamers and the hardcore ones, but adding new features that don't make any sense within the framework of the game doesn't accomplish that.
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I fail to see a situation when I'd like to use a "retreat" command that picks the units' direction for me.
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On December 23 2009 10:10 JohannesH wrote:
I fail to see a situation when I'd like to use a "retreat" command that picks the units' direction for me.
Exactly. Retreat is only a useful command in two clearly defined dimensions, left/right or up/down. In a game like Starcraft, where you can constantly be flanked, pincered, or any number of things, "retreat" is defined only within the context of that particular battle in that particular game. Being unable to choose a direction to move your units when retreating would be disastrous.
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Guys......
I know this guy from SC2GDF......
He's a spammer and a troll......
Just ignore him......
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there is a fall back feature...
Step 1: Select All of your units
Step 2: Hit ctrl+1
Step 3: Press 1
Step 4: Right click your base
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Why the nearest base? what if it's under attack? That seems like a massive gameplay (considering current build and that is is a sequal to STARCRAFT) change for something that is essentially obsolete for a skilled player....
The real question here is without all the mechanics from DoW2 implemented what does this actually provide? NOTHING. You realize you can select your entire army and tell them to retreat ANYWHERE ON THE MAP just by right clicking? You don't even have to learn a hotkey... You're essentially saying we should make gameplay more shallow and add another command?
Seriously? Trolling? If your not trolling, heres a tip to being a bit more well recieved in this community. Put more effort into your posts, and don't use words that do not exist. Gooder?
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I'm actually now questioning the legitimacy of any post you make.
If you can have retreat....but then still control units while retreating......what the hell is the point of having a retreat button in the first place? That already seems so counter-intuitive...and...counter-productive...and against any form of sane logic that I can possibly think of.
And again....if you knew anything about Starcraft....you'd know that good players usually don't retreat back to base like a flock of panzies. I suggest you watch some real games, and see that they retreat either to some important geographical location or some other strategic position.
Again, have you played Starcraft and actually competed to the point where you could make these claims?
Ok....so let me just break it to you, in REALLY easy and simple words.
FIRST OFF, in ANY game you play, there's going to be something you worry about.
In Call of Duty, you need to NOT BLINK because you use your eyes to track movement and shoot people. You need great hand eye coordination. Are you saying COD4 needs auto-lock then because concentrating with your eyes makes it hard, and people not worrying about massive hand-eye coordination makes it more fun?
In Starcraft, you need to worry about five things at once. How do you manage that? With APM. Are you saying we need automated functions because that detracts from the fun? Isn't the fun in Starcraft from being able TO CONTROL all those things? Again, I've said it again, and I'll say it a thousand times. WHY is an AUTOMATED retreat function ANY good, if you have NO CONTROL on where you retreat to?
And if you DO get to control them, then WHY are you inserting a button for it in the first place?
Your logic is false in so many areas that I can't even START to comprehend the lack of logic. -_-x
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On December 23 2009 10:17 Ababmer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2009 10:06 majesty.k)seRapH wrote:
ababmer, you are flaming people who have been presenting rational arguments, and pointing out weaknesses in your own. rather than fixing your own platform, you just tell us to read your OP again as if there was something we missed.
starcraft is not a strategy game. starcraft is not a movie. starcraft is not a movie in which the player writes a script. starcraft is a real-time strategy game, where skill matters just as much as the actual strategy. lower tier players can go play with each other and have their even playing field there. Why is everyone insult me when i come here and ONLY GIVE MY NICE opinion and arugment? I flame? WHEN THEY ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ME? I AM the one flaming now? HOW ABOUT THIS THEN? How ABOUT ANYONE WHO WANTS TO FLAME CAN AGREE TO MEET IN REAL LIFE AND I BEAT THEIR SKINNY BODY TO THE GROUND? YOU ARE NOT SO CONFIDENT WHEN IN REAL WORLDS, YOU DONT EVEN LOOK PEOPLES EYES I AM SURE. You people are so high horse high horse and sensative to any argument that as soon as i come along with nice idea you ATTACK. ATTACK ATTACK. I obey all the rules but you are all so self conscious about your GAME onlien that anyone who say argument against yor own world must be wrong. SOrry guys, blizzard will make this game easier, blizzard will destroy your old features just like i would destory anyone who disrespetcs me like this in real life. Your old-school UI faults will be remmoved, your gameplay diluted and made easier. All for monetary gains you will see.
Oh I feel that spiteful burn. Thank you. Oh man. Close now? 
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Automated retreat works in games like CoH and DoW2 because the game is based around gaining map control and maintaining it.
It is a GAME DESIGN FEATURE not only a UI feature. Won't work for SC2 because
1) The poor SC2 AI will have a hard time trying to figure out where you want to retreat to unless you just retreat to your starting base or something, or can set a retreat point, but that would be kinda gay
2) There is suppression and other things and emphasis on SQUADS rather than keeping individual units alive in CoH and DoW2
In conclusion it is just redundant and would not fit into the game. For example your opponent forces you to retreat and then burrows some lurkers in the retreat path to your base, and you lose all your units because they are retreating and you can't do anything about it. And what does an automated retreat button have to do with macro anyways?
I just don't see it working in SC2 and really it is not hard to tell your units to move back and stop attacking, it's like one right-click and with unlimited unit selection you can group your whole army together and with one click you can pull your units back.
It's pretty funny how there's a division between Blizzard rts players and relic rts players nowadays lol. No one cares tbh, just play whatever game you like better, don't like it?! DONT BUY/PLAY IT OMG IS IT REALLY THAT HARD?! Mainstream gamers will buy anything Blizzard make anyways and if they don't like it after like a month of getting owned constantly, Blizzard already made their profit and only the skilled will be left.
I think that's a win-win situation for both parties.
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ok, this is getting closed.
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You see....
The RATIONAL thing to do would be to calmly argue my point and provide some legitimate evidence for this conglomerate that you've created.
But instead, you decide to just talk about how we're prideful, arrogant, and you'd beat the shit out of us.....
Um...........yeah............most of the people on this board are highly intelligent individuals who happen to be part of the biggest Starcraft gathering outside of Korea. Wouldn't you think that if they saw a good idea, they'd accept it? Not counting me of course. I just like to post stuff.
Do you now see why some people call you a troll?
Because trolls CAN beat the shit out of us.
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CA10828 Posts
On December 23 2009 10:17 Ababmer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2009 10:06 majesty.k)seRapH wrote:
ababmer, you are flaming people who have been presenting rational arguments, and pointing out weaknesses in your own. rather than fixing your own platform, you just tell us to read your OP again as if there was something we missed.
starcraft is not a strategy game. starcraft is not a movie. starcraft is not a movie in which the player writes a script. starcraft is a real-time strategy game, where skill matters just as much as the actual strategy. lower tier players can go play with each other and have their even playing field there. Why is everyone insult me when i come here and ONLY GIVE MY NICE opinion and arugment? I flame? WHEN THEY ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ME? I AM the one flaming now? HOW ABOUT THIS THEN? How ABOUT ANYONE WHO WANTS TO FLAME CAN AGREE TO MEET IN REAL LIFE AND I BEAT THEIR SKINNY BODY TO THE GROUND? YOU ARE NOT SO CONFIDENT WHEN IN REAL WORLDS, YOU DONT EVEN LOOK PEOPLES EYES I AM SURE. zergneedsfood i am much stronger than your prejudical weak person in the real world. You people are so high horse high horse and sensative to any argument that as soon as i come along with nice idea you ATTACK. ATTACK ATTACK. I obey all the rules but you are all so self conscious about your GAME onlien that anyone who say argument against yor own world must be wrong. SOrry guys, blizzard will make this game easier, blizzard will destroy your old features just like i would destory anyone who disrespetcs me like this in real life. Your old-school UI faults will be remmoved, your gameplay diluted and made easier. All for monetary gains you will see.
after you step away from the keyboard and take a couple of deep breaths, reread majesty.k)seRapH's post. i can't find a single insult in his post. he was very civil and quite rational. on the other hand you are busy being CAPTAINCAPSLOCK and saying things like:
NYONE WHO WANTS TO FLAME CAN AGREE TO MEET IN REAL LIFE AND I BEAT THEIR SKINNY BODY TO THE GROUND?
btw, whats the point of a retreat button when we already have unlimited unit selection in sc2?
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haha, damn. well i'm taking a break from tl for a few hours.
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EPT
