EPTThe addition of a 'fall back' feature
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Ababmer
17 Posts
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Khaymus
United States750 Posts
By the way: Sorry in advance for the 123213 people who are going to rip your post apart  | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
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Ababmer
17 Posts
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Lovin
Denmark812 Posts
Edit: Woops, I missed the whole "Retreat to base" thing.. Define base, and.. Ah well I guess the AI can take it.. | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
If you think about it, a game HAS to do a couple of things, and these are ALL interconnected: 1) Challenge you - wouldn't be fun if every level of Starcraft you got 50 imbalisks and 40 lings and 50 defilers with infinite energy. 2) User friendly - if you had your controls scrambled over your keyboard and the visuals made commands really hard to see, that wouldn't be fun either 3) Most importantly: Provide a DISPARITY between the good and bad players. Number 3 is obviously the one I'm looking at here. Retreating in Starcraft is a great aspect of strategy and play because it helps to set an advantage or prevent a disadvantage. In a game where huge mega-losses are absolutely unforgiving in many matchups, the best players will obviously retreat with more forces intact than bad players. Having a function like this not only drags out the game longer, but then anyone can retreat without losing too many troops. It makes the concept of retreating pointless. In real military strategy, retreats happen when both you react to situations and when your troops know that the shit hit the fan. Gamers need to learn that games are supposed to be challenging and not easy to win. If you had such a function, you'd completely eliminate any potential gaining of advantages when playing Starcraft. Oh, it's time to run? Let's click a button and my army is gone. Please don't make the game any more user-friendly than it already is. Make it fun, and at the same time, make it so that there is a distinction between better players. That makes competition so much more entertaining. EDIT: Ok, so your post talks about being a good strategic commander? I can approve of that, BUT: 1) The best strategic player KNOWS when to retreat. If you are a good player, you KNOW that your MnM army is going to get ripped apart by 20 imbalisks and it's time to fall back to a good location. 2) Strategy comes down to reaction time. It doesn't matter if you have a billion ideas. But if you can't poop one out in the middle of a battle, then why would anyone want you as general of an army? 3) Retreating in Starcraft should NEVER be about mainly running back to your base and licking your wounds. Retreat can be many things. It can be running back and regrouping your army, and finding another point of attack. Remember Gettysburg, where Lee hit the Union Army after falling back multiple times? In many aspects, as lame as it sounds, retreat is never about falling back, it's just about advancing in another direction. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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Tropics
United Kingdom1132 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 23 2009 08:56 Ababmer wrote: I think a fall back feature for your units would be a very good idea because it means that players ultimatley are not judged by how fast or how many orders they give, but how gooder strategitions they are. What? I actually don't know why this is useful. It was in CoH, but that's because units in CoH that retreated automatically broke pinning and got a movement bonus. There are no mechanics in place for an analogue to that in Starcraft (you'd need morale, suppressive fire, etc., concepts which don't even apply neatly to a race like the zerg), and without them, it's functionally identical to right-clicking on the minimap. Even for the most mechanically incompetent player, the difference between hitting an arbitrary key on the keyboard and clicking in a corner of the minimap is negligible. Simply put, you're asking for a feature that, without a complex set of mechanics in place to support it, doesn't actually save any actions for anyone. | ||
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armed_
Canada443 Posts
I find it hilarious that you took the time to point that out yet didn't suspect anything about whether the post was serious or not. | ||
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emikochan
United Kingdom232 Posts
@ Tropics, it's also better as it makes them run faster and better armour (in dow2 anyway, never played coh) OP , sc2 has been made immensely easier already, how hard is it to select all your troups and click your base ? It's not like you send them individually (your comment of "lots of clicking") | ||
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Ababmer
17 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 23 2009 09:13 armed_ wrote: I find it hilarious that you took the time to point that out yet didn't suspect anything about whether the post was serious or not. Oh I'm well aware that the post is likely a troll. I don't see how that's relevant to providing a serious answer if it isn't. | ||
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Ababmer
17 Posts
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n00bonicPlague
United States197 Posts
On a serious note, "retreat" commands aren't very good for most RTS games. You might as well take the time to command those units to the desired location. | ||
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Khaymus
United States750 Posts
[B] gg 60 apm cap.. This made me lol real hard. I run into WoW players all the time who think the PvP takes skill. Many DOTA players try to convince me that it takes skill too. I just sigh. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 23 2009 09:18 Ababmer wrote: Again not relevant, i heard from friends who i play starcraft with that this website is professional, yet users who do only mock and not post relevant things to thread are all over the place. You prejudge and break rules, why are you not banned? ...and this is definitely a troll. Tropics and I provide two answers to why such a feature does no good to Starcraft (it's useful in Company of Heroes and Dawn of War 2 because there are mechanics related to it--without them, a retreat key is the same as right-clicking on the minimap), and you conveniently skip over them. | ||
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yhnmk
Canada630 Posts
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Klapdout
United States282 Posts
I hope this is a troll post. | ||
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Ababmer
17 Posts
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T-P-S
United States204 Posts
On December 23 2009 09:15 Ababmer wrote: Here is problem, because the majority of people who buy the game (the soon to be users) do not like to play old fashioned gameplay macro like in starcraft. Do you have any statistics to prove this? Because from what I understand the millions of people that already play starcraft regularly do enjoy the required skill spread to play well. You're coming to a board that idolizes the best players in the game and telling us your opinion as a casual or 'soon to be' user. What kind of reception do you expect when you try to impress the types of skill tests you personally prefer on a community that has already made it clear that the mechanical test of unit control is appealing to them? | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
Here is problem, because the majority of people who buy the game (the soon to be users) do not like to play old fashioned gameplay macro like in starcraft. They do not want to be click click click for no reason. Blizzard is making a squeal and it must be innovative, they must also make the game for the majority of sales (that is people who do not enjoy the click click). So by keeping it like starcraft in respect to APM focus and archaic interface options, they are not making game user friendly. You're making it sound like Starcraft is going to be centralized about Macro in SC2, which is already a fallacy and an assumption. Boxer rarely used a macro style game when the first one came out. And even now, there's an abundance of micro-intensive games in Starcraft, whether you be on the pro or foreign level. Games evolve, and Starcraft is no different. Yes, the game is focused a lot on macro, but what game isn't? You make it sound like things like pumping out units should be an automated feature and micro-intensive commands like retreating in an intelligent fashion should also be automated. Ever heard of splitting up your army and then moving out in two different directions? Retreating that's automated cancels that out completely...unless you want to add a command for that too. Yes, but my point is if you allow technology and innovation to take over small things like retreating then player could focus on bigger things like actual strategy of battles. If we allow this then new, more fun ways to access disparitty between good or bad player would emerge. You do not allow blizzard to bloom their innovations in this respect. If it's such a small thing, then innovation will happen regardless. Great things happen on a daily basis BECAUSE we have these small things that require actual player input. Things like marine vs. lurker micro or mutalisk micro is possible BECAUSE we don't have automated commands and it's a free game interface that allows the player to do almost whatever he wants. If I recall correctly, there was a Pimpest Plays by iloveoov, where he split 3 control groups of marines and beautifully avoided a bunch of lurker spikes while losing very few marines of his own. If you had a mass retreat effect, wouldn't you be canceling out such innovations? Sorry, but i agree to disagree here. Distinction can still be found via other means, hard interface and unforgiving archaic methods of control is not prerequisite for differentiation in games, you must learn that. Unforgiving archaic methods of control? Who said anything about being a prerequisite? Distinction is again, not built from automation, but from ingenuity. Your point is completely counter intuitive because you rule out any form of distinction when you make things automated and robotic. Robots and AIs can't accomplish anything distinctive unless you TELL them to. And that's why Starcraft was brilliant. Because you had amazing sources of play coming from what players were telling their units to do. Plaguing vessels then muta-sniping all of them. Wraith micro. Vutlure micro. Dragoon micro. All of these came because we don't have automated commands and automated attack patterns that disregard human control. When the human mind is free to do what it wants to do in a game atmosphere then that's when games become more powerful. People should be complaining about things that CAN'T be done in game rather then what things CAN already be done. | ||
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Ababmer
17 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 23 2009 09:24 Ababmer wrote: TheYango. Your post i quoted was not relevant to topic, but your other one was. Please keep this on topic next time thank you. You failed to respond to my original post in the thread, along with Tropics, who made the same point. Never mind your belief that the interface should be made easier to handle. I'm not even arguing with you on that because that will go nowhere. You still haven't addressed the statement that, without specific game mechanics backing up the retreat option, it does nothing to make the interface easier to handle. Retreating in its current form takes a right click. If you added a button to do it, it would take a button press, Both are one action. Having that button there doesn't make it any easier or harder to control your army. It's just wasted dev time adding a feature that doesn't change how the game plays. | ||
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
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Ababmer
17 Posts
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yhnmk
Canada630 Posts
On December 23 2009 09:26 Ababmer wrote: cs is fps...its fucking move, point, click. Its a simplistic game, theres no "archaic" features in fps that were removed to create cs, its just a barebone, simplistic game. That has no baring on starcraft, it isnt relevant at all, soon-to-be-banned-troll.Have you ever played counter strike? It is more popular e-sport than starcraft and it does not rely on old interface and hindering ui features to distinguish between player skill Distinction can still be found via other means, hard interface and unforgiving archaic methods of control is not prerequisite for differentiation in games. There are other ways to access player skill my friend. | ||
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T-P-S
United States204 Posts
On December 23 2009 09:31 Ababmer wrote: I am sorry but the audience that will provide blizzard the most money is the mainstream audience, they are majority and you hardcore are minority. The majority of sales will be people who play dawn of war 2, people who like embpire total war, FPshooters with fast paced easy action. Blizzards target audience does not want such intense macro features, they are used to easy to learn hard to master, not hard to learn and hard to master. You think that sc2 will sell more than 50 million copies outside of Korea? Possibly, even probably. But you're just offering this as some kind of omen. Whether or not the primary audience will change doesn't alter the disagreement with your original post. You think that a retreat command should be implemented and then point out that the community will become casualized. How is this convincing us that retreat commands are a good thing? | ||
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emikochan
United Kingdom232 Posts
Are you forgetting that the "other means" still exist ALONG with the hard physical requirement, sports are exciting because people are doing things we can't. Even with all the mechanical requirement, pros still do awesome stuff. I don't see why you made this thread without doing any research on the much-simplified sc2 interface. You want bases to autobuild too ? it's only 1click to make a worker mine, 3 clicks for a building, 2 to make a unit (3 with warpin \o/),2 to give a command, how can you get simpler than that ? | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
I am sorry but the audience that will provide blizzard the most money is the mainstream audience, they are majority and you hardcore are minority. The majority of sales will be people who play dawn of war 2, people who like embpire total war, FPshooters with fast paced easy action. Blizzards target audience does not want such intense macro features, they are used to easy to learn hard to master, not hard to learn and hard to master. Da fuck?! Ok....so first off, there are a couple of "no-no's" on your post. ONE: A LOT of people on this site are ALSO mainstream gamers. They play other games. They've played Dawn of War, they've played Empire Total War, they've played Counterstrike. Don't call the other people on this board non-mainstream members, because they are. TWO: What do you mean by "hardcore"? You make it sound like we're CRAZY good because I just used a bunch of big words that fucked up your entire case. Well, guess what? A LOT of us aren't that good. I'm D/D+ on ICCup and I've never gotten that great at the game 'til recently. Don't think that we're all like....A+ Korean status, but we still respect the game for what it is. THREE: So....Blizzard is supposed to cop out and make it a fucking easy done deal? That's simply retarded. Things like Micro and Macro ARE NOT hard to learn if you take the time to learn. Gamers should be ashamed of themselves when they try to get a game that's so-called "easy to learn". Yeah, games should be fun, but the reason why games like Halo had a setting called "LEGENDARY" was because some people are called NOOBIES while the others are called "MEN". Plus, you just disregarded everything that I said and just decided to say "Well...*stutter*....Blizzard goes for some other audience you "piece of fucking shit" (<-- Day[9]'s quote *fan girl squeal*)" | ||
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Ababmer
17 Posts
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Loldts
United States66 Posts
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emikochan
United Kingdom232 Posts
sc2 is going to be big, indeed there is a resurgence is more difficult games now, because the gamers are bored of stuff that takes no effort. You're trying to quantify "fun" and that just doesn't work in a serious discussion. Anyway this is all moot, just OPEN YOUR EYES, read the BLIZZARD INFORMATION (50+ pages of questions answered), watch the BATTLE REPORTS (and david kim's youtube), does this game really look like it's going to cater (competitively, I don't care how bad you are in your own time) to people that can't beat 60apm ? So many gm informative posts in this thread and you are ignoring them , then accusing us of being elitist. Boggles the mind, personally I doubt I could beat D- (my macro/multi-task skills are lacking), but I love watching. Do you think sc2 would be fun to watch with 60apm ? i'd make a cup of tea and be back in time for the first rax... | ||
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Ababmer
17 Posts
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Ababmer
17 Posts
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
not to mention that there is already a fallback feature, it's called right click. | ||
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T-P-S
United States204 Posts
On December 23 2009 09:53 Ababmer wrote: Blizzard should include a retreat feature because it will provide more enjoyment for the majority. It will make the game easier for the majority who buy it and it will provide happy for greater good. That is my point sorry you can not see straight away. I don't think that a game that caters to more people is necessarily a better game. My personal enjoyment of the game would decrease with this feature, yours would apparently increase. There's no real discussion to be had about this. | ||
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Ababmer
17 Posts
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
Blizzard should include a retreat feature because it will provide more enjoyment for the majority. That is my point sorry i cant remember specific post that ask Ok, since that's your ONLY point, I will address that and that only. You say more enjoyment............. ... ... The reason why I placed so many dots was because I just have to ask "Are you for rela?" Because that makes NO sense whatsoever. Why would adding something that you have NO control over make it anymore fun? Second of all, you stereotype everyone on Teamliquid by saying we LOVE archaic features (whatever the fuck that means), You make it sound like we're old-school, and that the majority of people DON'T like archaic features (still don't know what the fuck it is). I'm just going to assume you're a noob at Starcraft and you're complaining because C+/B-/B player transitions into SC2 is just going to rape the shit out of most players, and will do whatever it takes to level a growing playing field. Third, no....harder difficulties isn't a justification for manhood and I almost laughed while reading that. But essentially, the point is this. Why would you play anything that had no value or challenge? Again, the point remains unopposed: retreating automated functions will ONLY make the game easier and less fun. There is no ENJOYMENT of watching your troops running from a battle because you clicked a button. It's just this going through you're mind ("Well.....my AI was stupid and ran into a bunch of enemy units on the way back and got slaughtered.....fuck.") Fourth....the inserted "stutter" between asterisks only served to symbolize the lack of clarity and logic and....intelligence in the post because despite your repeated use of the word "archaic" which could've replaced by the word "old-school" there was no fathomable logic to your point, so I might as well just disregard the entire thing because it made absolutely no sense. Again, I'm going to say this over and over again. Enjoyment comes out of being able to control something, not NOT being able to control something. *sigh* You haven't even touched the CRUX of the arguments. EDIT: Enjoy the LOOK of the game? Well....might as well not play and just watch the better people then. Look, sorry about the blasphemous language...but when you're disregarding half of the arguments...then it becomes a serious problem and dropped arguments are likely to be picked on. You were warned. | ||
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ManWithCheese
Canada246 Posts
On December 23 2009 09:23 yhnmk wrote: we already have fucking auto cast, mbs, auto mine, why the fuck should we have auto retreat. Auto build order too now, just compute what you fucking want before the game starts? Hey I know, just let a comp play for you with your strategies, better decides whos the "gooder" strategical master, non of that newb-bashing-elitist "playing the game" problems anymore. Just sit back, take a nap, and see what the fuck happens. If you're gonna go off on a rant atleast use correct information | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On December 23 2009 10:00 ManWithCheese wrote: Can someone just ban this troll already. If you're gonna go off on a rant atleast use correct information Actually these are his first few posts. I doubt he'd be a troll considering he seems really passionate and intent on getting his message through.. And besides...debate is fun. It opens up ideas...albeit stupid ones, but at least it's....interesting to see what other people think about stuff that we don't like to think about. | ||
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Ababmer
17 Posts
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
starcraft is not a strategy game. starcraft is not a movie. starcraft is not a movie in which the player writes a script. starcraft is a real-time strategy game, where skill matters just as much as the actual strategy. lower tier players can go play with each other and have their even playing field there. | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
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Loldts
United States66 Posts
On December 23 2009 09:58 Ababmer wrote: I DO NOT ACCUSE OF ELITIST STOP PEOPLE. STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. Yes i agree that it is nice to watch, and yes i think it would be fun with 60apm because WoW's e-sport is very popular to watch. And quantifiying fun can work because it is based on the fact that the majority do not want to worry about APM, they want to enjoy the look of game and have fun. WHAT MAJORITY? Just because you think games like Counterstrike are more popular than Starcraft (which they are simply because they are easier) doesn't make those games BETTER, they are just EASIER. EASIER is not BETTER. Even in the context of a business like Blizzard, which have stockholders and quarterly profit statements, catering your game to everyone with an opposable thumb will not make the game "more enjoyable" for the "majority". Blizzard has to meet in the middle between the casual gamers and the hardcore ones, but adding new features that don't make any sense within the framework of the game doesn't accomplish that. | ||
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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
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Loldts
United States66 Posts
On December 23 2009 10:10 JohannesH wrote: I fail to see a situation when I'd like to use a "retreat" command that picks the units' direction for me. Exactly. Retreat is only a useful command in two clearly defined dimensions, left/right or up/down. In a game like Starcraft, where you can constantly be flanked, pincered, or any number of things, "retreat" is defined only within the context of that particular battle in that particular game. Being unable to choose a direction to move your units when retreating would be disastrous. | ||
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n00bonicPlague
United States197 Posts
I know this guy from SC2GDF...... He's a spammer and a troll...... Just ignore him...... | ||
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KH1031
United States862 Posts
Step 1: Select All of your units Step 2: Hit ctrl+1 Step 3: Press 1 Step 4: Right click your base | ||
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
The real question here is without all the mechanics from DoW2 implemented what does this actually provide? NOTHING. You realize you can select your entire army and tell them to retreat ANYWHERE ON THE MAP just by right clicking? You don't even have to learn a hotkey... You're essentially saying we should make gameplay more shallow and add another command? Seriously? Trolling? If your not trolling, heres a tip to being a bit more well recieved in this community. Put more effort into your posts, and don't use words that do not exist. Gooder? | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
If you can have retreat....but then still control units while retreating......what the hell is the point of having a retreat button in the first place? That already seems so counter-intuitive...and...counter-productive...and against any form of sane logic that I can possibly think of. And again....if you knew anything about Starcraft....you'd know that good players usually don't retreat back to base like a flock of panzies. I suggest you watch some real games, and see that they retreat either to some important geographical location or some other strategic position. Again, have you played Starcraft and actually competed to the point where you could make these claims? Ok....so let me just break it to you, in REALLY easy and simple words. FIRST OFF, in ANY game you play, there's going to be something you worry about. In Call of Duty, you need to NOT BLINK because you use your eyes to track movement and shoot people. You need great hand eye coordination. Are you saying COD4 needs auto-lock then because concentrating with your eyes makes it hard, and people not worrying about massive hand-eye coordination makes it more fun? In Starcraft, you need to worry about five things at once. How do you manage that? With APM. Are you saying we need automated functions because that detracts from the fun? Isn't the fun in Starcraft from being able TO CONTROL all those things? Again, I've said it again, and I'll say it a thousand times. WHY is an AUTOMATED retreat function ANY good, if you have NO CONTROL on where you retreat to? And if you DO get to control them, then WHY are you inserting a button for it in the first place? Your logic is false in so many areas that I can't even START to comprehend the lack of logic. -_-x | ||
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Ababmer
17 Posts
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On December 23 2009 10:17 Ababmer wrote: Why is everyone insult me when i come here and ONLY GIVE MY NICE opinion and arugment? I flame? WHEN THEY ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ME? I AM the one flaming now? HOW ABOUT THIS THEN? How ABOUT ANYONE WHO WANTS TO FLAME CAN AGREE TO MEET IN REAL LIFE AND I BEAT THEIR SKINNY BODY TO THE GROUND? YOU ARE NOT SO CONFIDENT WHEN IN REAL WORLDS, YOU DONT EVEN LOOK PEOPLES EYES I AM SURE. You people are so high horse high horse and sensative to any argument that as soon as i come along with nice idea you ATTACK. ATTACK ATTACK. I obey all the rules but you are all so self conscious about your GAME onlien that anyone who say argument against yor own world must be wrong. SOrry guys, blizzard will make this game easier, blizzard will destroy your old features just like i would destory anyone who disrespetcs me like this in real life. Your old-school UI faults will be remmoved, your gameplay diluted and made easier. All for monetary gains you will see. Oh I feel that spiteful burn. Thank you. Oh man. Close now?  | ||
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ToyotaDemon
Australia150 Posts
It is a GAME DESIGN FEATURE not only a UI feature. Won't work for SC2 because 1) The poor SC2 AI will have a hard time trying to figure out where you want to retreat to unless you just retreat to your starting base or something, or can set a retreat point, but that would be kinda gay 2) There is suppression and other things and emphasis on SQUADS rather than keeping individual units alive in CoH and DoW2 In conclusion it is just redundant and would not fit into the game. For example your opponent forces you to retreat and then burrows some lurkers in the retreat path to your base, and you lose all your units because they are retreating and you can't do anything about it. And what does an automated retreat button have to do with macro anyways? I just don't see it working in SC2 and really it is not hard to tell your units to move back and stop attacking, it's like one right-click and with unlimited unit selection you can group your whole army together and with one click you can pull your units back. It's pretty funny how there's a division between Blizzard rts players and relic rts players nowadays lol. No one cares tbh, just play whatever game you like better, don't like it?! DONT BUY/PLAY IT OMG IS IT REALLY THAT HARD?! Mainstream gamers will buy anything Blizzard make anyways and if they don't like it after like a month of getting owned constantly, Blizzard already made their profit and only the skilled will be left. I think that's a win-win situation for both parties. | ||
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
The RATIONAL thing to do would be to calmly argue my point and provide some legitimate evidence for this conglomerate that you've created. But instead, you decide to just talk about how we're prideful, arrogant, and you'd beat the shit out of us..... Um...........yeah............most of the people on this board are highly intelligent individuals who happen to be part of the biggest Starcraft gathering outside of Korea. Wouldn't you think that if they saw a good idea, they'd accept it? Not counting me of course. I just like to post stuff. Do you now see why some people call you a troll? Because trolls CAN beat the shit out of us. | ||
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n00bonicPlague
United States197 Posts
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=22048397075&sid=3000#14 | ||
LosingID8
CA10828 Posts
On December 23 2009 10:17 Ababmer wrote: Why is everyone insult me when i come here and ONLY GIVE MY NICE opinion and arugment? I flame? WHEN THEY ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ME? I AM the one flaming now? HOW ABOUT THIS THEN? How ABOUT ANYONE WHO WANTS TO FLAME CAN AGREE TO MEET IN REAL LIFE AND I BEAT THEIR SKINNY BODY TO THE GROUND? YOU ARE NOT SO CONFIDENT WHEN IN REAL WORLDS, YOU DONT EVEN LOOK PEOPLES EYES I AM SURE. zergneedsfood i am much stronger than your prejudical weak person in the real world. You people are so high horse high horse and sensative to any argument that as soon as i come along with nice idea you ATTACK. ATTACK ATTACK. I obey all the rules but you are all so self conscious about your GAME onlien that anyone who say argument against yor own world must be wrong. SOrry guys, blizzard will make this game easier, blizzard will destroy your old features just like i would destory anyone who disrespetcs me like this in real life. Your old-school UI faults will be remmoved, your gameplay diluted and made easier. All for monetary gains you will see. after you step away from the keyboard and take a couple of deep breaths, reread majesty.k)seRapH's post. i can't find a single insult in his post. he was very civil and quite rational. on the other hand you are busy being CAPTAINCAPSLOCK and saying things like: NYONE WHO WANTS TO FLAME CAN AGREE TO MEET IN REAL LIFE AND I BEAT THEIR SKINNY BODY TO THE GROUND? btw, whats the point of a retreat button when we already have unlimited unit selection in sc2? | ||
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Ababmer
17 Posts
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
On December 23 2009 10:24 n00bonicPlague wrote: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=22048397075&sid=3000#13 http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=22048397075&sid=3000#14 haha, damn. well i'm taking a break from tl for a few hours. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
thanks for cheering me up while im sick op | ||
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Broodie
Canada832 Posts
we're not getting banned cause we're defending a game that is meant to be played with clicks AND there is a RTB function it's called ctrl-1/2 - click base, why the hell wouldnt you be watching units anyways?! and if you dont like "click click" then dont play starcraft, go play halo wars, games are made to be played how theyre made, if you dont like it then dont play it perhaps? I'm not flaming you I'm being literal and just, you're complaints underline you're anger because you can't win at a game that takes skill and for the most part "click clicks" you may win at "Click - leave computer to grab a snack - click - dance" world of warcraft with me being a WoW noob, I could right now go on my friends WoW account as a level 80 w/e and defeat a noob, or even a lvl 50-60 with ease. because it's all materialistic in game collectors values that take R'tards months to collect, nothing is measured on skill. Starcraft takes practice and dedication, I can't go on a buddies account who is A- iccup and beat a guy who's C+ iccup, it's impossible because ***It takes skill to play starcraft*** conform or gtfo agreed? the moral of this reply is: don't play sc if you can't handle it, Blizzard is not fail, this thread and you are fail. sorry in advance but this thread really pissed me off haha | ||
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ToyotaDemon
Australia150 Posts
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
I discuss all your points rational but you still insult where i do not insult back? Why do you disrespect so much? Let please us meet up in real life. Where do you want to meet? It's posts like that that sort of reek of hypocrisy. And then again, you don't discuss the points. There are at least five members of TL who would have debated your point but you failed to address them. Then you go off on a tangent about how things like "*sigh*" and *stutter* are insulting to you....when back on some random B.net forum you say "TL is the best fun I've had in a while". That's what makes you not rational. That's what makes you a less respected person, not only here, but in real life, and that's what makes people on here, mad at trolls. I'm guessing half of the people on this site could easily whoops your ass at Starcraft....as well as the "squeal", regardless of any of these new add-ons. Just because you envy the immense skills of someone else doesn't give you the right to flame them. This community deserves respect, and your idiocy and lack of skills makes YOU a nerd, not everyone on this board. | ||
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IskatuMesk
Canada969 Posts
On December 23 2009 10:17 Ababmer wrote: HOW ABOUT THIS THEN? How ABOUT ANYONE WHO WANTS TO FLAME CAN AGREE TO MEET IN REAL LIFE AND I BEAT THEIR SKINNY BODY TO THE GROUND? YOU ARE NOT SO CONFIDENT WHEN IN REAL WORLDS, YOU DONT EVEN LOOK PEOPLES EYES I AM SURE. zergneedsfood lets meet up in real life and sort this out properly please? I don't know about you guys, but I burst into hysterical laughter when I read this. I am not even quite sure where this came from. | ||
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
On December 23 2009 10:31 Zergneedsfood wrote: It's posts like that that sort of reek of hypocrisy. And then again, you don't discuss the points. There are at least five members of TL who would have debated your point but you failed to address them. Then you go off on a tangent about how things like "*sigh*" and *stutter* are insulting to you....when back on some random B.net forum you say "TL is the best fun I've had in a while". That's what makes you not rational. That's what makes you a less respected person, not only here, but in real life, and that's what makes people on here, mad at trolls. I'm guessing half of the people on this site could easily whoops your ass at Starcraft....as well as the "squeal", regardless of any of these new add-ons. Just because you envy the immense skills of someone else doesn't give you the right to flame them. This community deserves respect, and your idiocy and lack of skills makes YOU a nerd, not everyone on this board. i'm happy that i havent exited just yet because of this response. you even mention the battlenet thread :D you might want to reread that | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
I guess I sort of just wanted to say something. I feel really riled up when people do this...it sort of makes me sad. It's just that this community DOES deserve respect. I came here because I heard this was like...the coolest site to get help for your play. People coming here just to piss people off is stupid and fucked up. | ||
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CrimsonLotus
Colombia1123 Posts
On December 23 2009 09:05 Zergneedsfood wrote: Gamers need to learn that games are supposed to be challenging and not easy to win. Wait, what? How can you say that gamesneed to be challenging? A game only needs to be fun, everything else is just an extra. I think way too many people in this forum are too elitist in this regard. A game that is only fun and not extremely competitive in every aspect? blasphemy! To be honest, i don't think SCII should follow the path of games such as DoW II, because SC:BW appeals to a very niche group of gamers that would be lost without a proper secuel to SC, but such as dismissive and snobish attitude annoys me to no end. It's a game people, a game... /Rant. | ||
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TwilightStar
United States649 Posts
On December 23 2009 08:56 Ababmer wrote: It would be a shame if a metre for judging player skill had to remain so archaic, there are other meanas of judging skill see world of warcraft. Did you really just use "skill" and "world of warcraft" in the same sentence? Seriously...? That's fail. | ||
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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
On December 23 2009 10:30 ToyotaDemon wrote: LOL Idra replied to the OP in that battle.net thread hahaha ;D You really think idra posts on the bnet forums on a wc3 account? The 'idra' you are talking about is a piece of trash better known as ghetto_overlord. | ||
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hasuprotoss
United States4612 Posts
On December 23 2009 10:49 CrimsonLotus wrote: Wait, what? How can you say that gamesneed to be challenging? A game only needs to be fun, everything else is just an extra. I think way too many people in this forum are too elitist in this regard. A game that is only fun and not extremely competitive in every aspect? blasphemy! To be honest, i don't think SCII should follow the path of games such as DoW II, because SC:BW appeals to a very niche group of gamers that would be lost without a proper secuel to SC, but such as dismissive and snobish attitude annoys me to no end. It's a game people, a game... /Rant. I'm not 100% sure what exactly you're trying to say so I might be discussing something that you're not, but: Basketball, football, American football, hockey, and basically every other sport can be played competitively or for fun. There is definitely a massive skill gap between me and Lebron James or Kobe Bryant, but that doesn't stop me from playing basketball for fun or competitively against people around my skill level. So I guess what I'm trying to say is: most games have a competitive outlet, some just apply the gap between bad, good, and great a lot harsher (SC) than others (DoW, apparently) and neither is truly wrong. | ||
520
United States2822 Posts
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Entertaining
Canada793 Posts
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danieldrsa
Brazil522 Posts
On December 23 2009 10:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote: oh my god i'm laughing so hard at this thread thanks for cheering me up while im sick op same here His arguments are so strong that im felling inclinated to ask NBA to lower the tables 1 meter so the mainstream ppl can dunk | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On December 23 2009 10:49 CrimsonLotus wrote: Wait, what? How can you say that gamesneed to be challenging? A game only needs to be fun, everything else is just an extra. I think way too many people in this forum are too elitist in this regard. A game that is only fun and not extremely competitive in every aspect? blasphemy! To be honest, i don't think SCII should follow the path of games such as DoW II, because SC:BW appeals to a very niche group of gamers that would be lost without a proper secuel to SC, but such as dismissive and snobish attitude annoys me to no end. It's a game people, a game... /Rant. Well, I guess the word was used a bit loosely. But why do we get bored of games? They're not "challenging" anymore...or "they're not fun". I guess what I'm trying to say that many times, challenging games adds to that level of fun. But mieh. This thread is essentially over.  | ||
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Sentient66
United States651 Posts
On December 23 2009 08:56 Ababmer wrote: I think a fall back feature for your units would be a very good idea because it means that players ultimatley are not judged by how fast or how many orders they give, but how gooder strategitions they are. If you can click button to make selected units retreat to base then you can focus your mind on more fun things like playing the game other than clicking lots and lots. I know lots of clicking is somehow prime focus for e-sports, but games have moved on now, boring, monotonus tasks may be a good judge of player strength, but a game that cannot find a fun means to build strength upon is not a very good squeal It would be a shame if a metre for judging player skill had to remain so archaic, there are other meanas of judging skill see world of warcraft. Why don't we add in unit formation buttons for your unlimited unit selection army as well? How about a "select idle worker" button too? In fact, let's also add an "A-move everything to your opponent's base" button. /sarcasm Really, these mechanics would maybe work in UMS games for beginners only, but even then, it's a crutch for players who have super-low APM, and are too lazy to work on their mechanics enough to properly execute their chosen strategy. Yes, Starcraft is a STRATEGY game. But still, the other half of the game is developing the skill required to pull off your strategy. Having knowledge of strategy combined with mechanics and game sense is what makes Starcraft fun, challenging, and enjoyable for all players. | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
true | ||
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
On December 23 2009 10:17 Ababmer wrote: Why is everyone insult me when i come here and ONLY GIVE MY NICE opinion and arugment? I flame? WHEN THEY ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ME? I AM the one flaming now? HOW ABOUT THIS THEN? How ABOUT ANYONE WHO WANTS TO FLAME CAN AGREE TO MEET IN REAL LIFE AND I BEAT THEIR SKINNY BODY TO THE GROUND? YOU ARE NOT SO CONFIDENT WHEN IN REAL WORLDS, YOU DONT EVEN LOOK PEOPLES EYES I AM SURE. zergneedsfood lets meet up in real life and sort this out properly please? You people are so high horse high horse and sensative to any argument that as soon as i come along with nice idea you ATTACK. ATTACK ATTACK. I obey all the rules but you are all so self conscious about your GAME onlien that anyone who say argument against yor own world must be wrong. SOrry guys, blizzard will make this game easier, blizzard will destroy your old features just like i would destory anyone who disrespetcs me like this in real life. Your old-school UI faults will be remmoved, your gameplay diluted and made easier. All for monetary gains you will see. User was temp-banned for this post. FINALLY. Go admins! | ||
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
On December 23 2009 11:51 DefMatrixUltra wrote: >>Ababmer == HotBid true then the mystery is why would Hot_Bid ban himself? | ||
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SiDX
New Zealand1975 Posts
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hellokitty[hk]
United States1309 Posts
If your retreating you better know where to properly put your units to defend, making the CPU run away for you is NOT good for strategy. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On December 23 2009 09:03 Ababmer wrote: But it is a squeal, it is not the same game. On December 23 2009 09:15 Ababmer wrote: Blizzard is making a squeal and it must be innovative These were the lulz for me | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
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789
United States959 Posts
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jewce
United States68 Posts
On December 23 2009 12:13 hellokitty[hk] wrote: Unlimited select = 1 right click easy retreat anyway? If your retreating you better know where to properly put your units to defend, making the CPU run away for you is NOT good for strategy. the necessity of a retreat function would be for people like me, people who suck, and imo since i suck i can save a hotkey and select all my units in the battle before hand. and get this, when the time comes i can hit the key and right click. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15687 Posts
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lynx.oblige
Sierra Leone2268 Posts
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teekuppi
78 Posts
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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
On December 23 2009 13:42 Mohdoo wrote: Shame to see such an obvious troll thread not locked Ya, no kidding. Its sad to see the guy only got a temp ban. He even admits on the bnet forums that he is having fun with us. http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=22048397075&sid=3000 | ||
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Frits
11782 Posts
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Eeeegor
Australia809 Posts
Hahahahaha | ||
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Romance_us
Seychelles1806 Posts
On December 23 2009 14:50 Mastermind wrote: Ya, no kidding. Its sad to see the guy only got a temp ban. He even admits on the bnet forums that he is having fun with us. http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=22048397075&sid=3000 His english is suspiciously good. LOL. | ||
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Nuxar
Canada212 Posts
Reason y everyone here calls u troll: U suggest stuff that are out of question. Suggesting that a drone can morph into a mothership is more realistic than what u say. Srry dude, just never going to happen. Note: Loled that this thread got 5 pages in not even 2 hours! | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
but he's not alone, there's a lot of people just as ignorant as him out there who thinks speed is not important cus they can't be fast right off the bat. who doesn't know there's about a million details that are invisible to them what works on these nubs is just to make them a simplified timeline of the evolution of starcraft: new<--slow<--slow strategy <--fast<--fast strategy<--macro<--adapation<--mindgames and then they'll see what they're advocating is like 2nd place from the bottom and that we're waaay past that. next time you see a nub, show him that. | ||
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scooterTech
Australia44 Posts
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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Equaoh
Canada427 Posts
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Broodie
Canada832 Posts
they dont even want to learn how to press '1' to control a ton of units it's actually easier to be decent at sc than it is to be a noob, but theyre too focused on "I WANT IT AND I WANT IT NOW" point drag click drag click click how about 1-0-0-click? take a damn second to learn, we were all noobs once and did what you are doing now but we LEARNED how to play, and didnt sit and cry because we sucked. or read a book, I'm sure you havent tried that yet. everyone that speaks against you makes perfect sense, because they overcame the challenge of being a noob or took the time to understand the mechanics of the game. I dont know why im getting so worked up, blizzard would never listen to you anyways haha | ||
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EximoSua
171 Posts
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Rainmaker5
United States1027 Posts
And, anyway, this is bad for gameplay. Full on retreat means getting(more) raped by lurkers. | ||
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
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Puosu
6985 Posts
gooder strategitions Some high level shit going on in here. I don't think that we, the mortals, can express our opinions on this case. On December 23 2009 19:09 ProoM wrote: What if we test our skills in some ums, and then when we have to play vs another player, we make a computer to play for us based on our skills! That would be soo cool! Oh and definitely this, I want it to be like I'm watching a movie! FUCK being able to affect the outcome!! | ||
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
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