EPTAnd Daniel's response to his "perceived" unprofessional response from Idra was to act even more unprofessional. Yeah, ok. There's pages upon pages of trash talking constantly about Idra "BM" when in fact he's not. The simple matter is this is band wagoning and knee-jerking reaction. It's on the same level of watching Fox News and believing it is all truthful unbiased statements. Idra is no more BM then any other progamer (it's Starcraft people, the whole community is built around who can cheese or BM and get away with it and WIN, it's all about WINNING) and granted Idra has done great and won (including ESWC). He's the ONLY American on a Korean pro gaming team, yet people feel the need to justify their political stances against him because it makes them seem cool and part of the crowd. But then again it's a-ok for Daniel to call him the worst pro gamer because he's a hot headed Korean who had a knee jerk reaction. Good one.
[Valor] Ro16 Day 1 - Page 41
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starcraftomatic
United States46 Posts
And Daniel's response to his "perceived" unprofessional response from Idra was to act even more unprofessional. Yeah, ok. There's pages upon pages of trash talking constantly about Idra "BM" when in fact he's not. The simple matter is this is band wagoning and knee-jerking reaction. It's on the same level of watching Fox News and believing it is all truthful unbiased statements. Idra is no more BM then any other progamer (it's Starcraft people, the whole community is built around who can cheese or BM and get away with it and WIN, it's all about WINNING) and granted Idra has done great and won (including ESWC). He's the ONLY American on a Korean pro gaming team, yet people feel the need to justify their political stances against him because it makes them seem cool and part of the crowd. But then again it's a-ok for Daniel to call him the worst pro gamer because he's a hot headed Korean who had a knee jerk reaction. Good one. | ||
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FirstBorn
Romania3955 Posts
On June 07 2009 00:47 starcraftomatic wrote: so it's acceptable for Daniel to cuss and say whatever he wants in casting and against Idra, but when Idra simply responds to chat in-game it's totally unacceptable and he receives unwanted shun from the whole community. I see how things are in Korea. And Daniel's response to his "perceived" unprofessional response from Idra was to act even more unprofessional. Yeah, ok. There's pages upon pages of trash talking constantly about Idra "BM" when in fact he's not. The simple matter is this is band wagoning and knee-jerking reaction. It's on the same level of watching Fox News and believing it is all truthful unbiased statements. Idra is no more BM then any other progamer (it's Starcraft people, the whole community is built around who can cheese or BM and get away with it and WIN, it's all about WINNING) and granted Idra has done great and won (including ESWC). He's the ONLY American on a Korean pro gaming team, yet people feel the need to justify their political stances against him because it makes them seem cool and part of the crowd. But then again it's a-ok for Daniel to call him the worst pro gamer because he's a hot headed Korean who had a knee jerk reaction. Good one. Maybe Idra is not bm by american standards, but he's judged by a former proteam coach by korena standards. By those standards it's considered generally bm to be cocky, let alone start bashing foreigners. You're also going to far by saying stuff like " I see how things are in Korea". It's esports, drama is bound to occur in a lot of big tournaments. Starcraft isn't about being bm and getting away with it, atleast not by korean standards. And you also need to point me incidents with korean progamers being as bm as idra, I must have missed them. | ||
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Sosha
United States749 Posts
I not only read a lot of the arguments concerning both sides, but I also watched the game in question. I'm sure Idra doesn't really care for our opinion - but I, myself don't think what happened was soo much bad-mannered as it was dis-respectful. As many of you have pointed out, Idra is bm. That case is closed. He's a little douche who seems to have a big mouth for what an alpha-nerd he is (props to Tasteless for that one). He might be good @ SC - but he's not 1/100 as good as the ppl he's practicing with. On the other hand - i'll give him credit - he's obviously good and was able to use that to be able to live in Korea to practice w/ these actual pro-gamers (even though his rec is prolly liek 15-99) I don't think what happened in question (game 2 of the series) was so much BM, although we know Idra is, I think it was dis-respectful. Like someone quoted "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" but another example would be, what if u went over to a friends house and they had certain rules, like not staying up really late @ night, because they like to get their rest and perhaps get up early in the morning - and 'friend' (idra in this case) stayed up till like 3-4 AM playing loud rock music or messing up the house. This would obvisouly in-turn, upset the parents and make them frown upon their decision about letting this 'friend' come over to stay with them. I feel this is what SuperDanielMan is feeling about this time. He felt more disrespected than anything. Daniel Lee is also an Icon in this game/field - he's done more for pro-gaming than most of us would ever know and he loves and supports the game to his fullest degree and is trying to advance pro-gaming to multi-platforms and get it as big as possible. He was disrespected by IDras actions - something Idra should have taken into consideration. It was like Daniel said, he didn't win Courage.. Idra was granted a pro-gaming license from Daniel Lee himself. Lets face it, Idra wouldn't win Courage. He prolly woulnd't even have done has well as Nony did his 1st attempt. Idra prolly would have lost in like RO32 to some Z who might have did an all-in build or two, and would have acted in classic idra fashion, jumped up from his chair and stormed out of the pc room all red, hot and botherd like a super-dork. His whole position in Korea was granted by Daniel. They say that if u have a pro-gaming license, you can be on a pro-gaming team and actually practice with them. I'm not sure if Nony's case was any different, cause I think he was also practicing w/ the eSTRO team, but Idras situation was purely granted to him (although he did earn to be looked at a little more by winning some tournament, i.e. stamina or w/e) However, my whole point is that Idra should definately been more respectful for those who worked to get him to where he is at this point, mainly SuperDanielMan. Daniel said repeatedly in the broadcast that "he hurt rumors about idra's bm, but didn't want to believe it" - he's trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and turn a blind-eye to it and accept him for trying to follow his dream, but was obviously appauled by his actions. I think Idra could have been more respectful by simply not-chatting during the game. The dood's been living in Korea for so long, been practicing w/ the pro-gamers and been under their rules AND their mannerisms for sooo long that this is almost inexcuseable. Idra knows that they have rules like this, and that they're an extremely mannered community. He should have taken into consideration his position in the public and that he's looked up to by community's like TL.net and the foreign community - and also that he's trying to make himself better in the Korea community - in which both he's failing at. point is: he should be trying to do all he can do to try to impress and 'pay back' superdanielman and he has totally like slapped him in the face. Thats what the before-game-room is for.. chatting. Thats why observer-hosts sit in the game-room and wait until both players say they are ready - and that and that alone is where they're are supposed to conduct their chats about previous games or any given topic, then when game starts, they're all business. Idra should know this better than any foreigner. Without the support of SuperDanielMan, Artosis and Tasteless prolly wouldn't be as fortunate to be where they are as well (but nothing against them, they are totally great, mannered (afaik) and supportive of the community). Idra may not give two shits about our opinions or even that of the Koreans, which all goes to show that the kid is a failure and doesn't deserve his oppurtunity. I know so many other ppl that would kill for the chances he's getting and would actually take others ppls values and cultures into consideration before conducting themselves in such a manner. I don't see how he could use the excuse "i didnt know these games would be live-broadcasted". I mean, TAsteless / SDM and the threads concerning this tournament have been saying for a week or two now; Valor RO16 matches will be broadcasted by tasteless/SDM and be made into VOD's to make them more exciting - and the players act liek they didn't know or couldn't find out? All in all, what idra does is his business, whether chatting in foriegn v foreign games or chatting in foriegn v korean games, its all on him - but he could be more respectful to the powers that be, and what got him there. No matter if he's "american" or not, like some idiot pointed out. I'm american too, respect is universal. GL | ||
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starcraftomatic
United States46 Posts
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StRyKeR
United States1739 Posts
On June 07 2009 01:58 starcraftomatic wrote: let's face it Valor was setup poorly and with little effort and is basically a marketing campaign for Daniel and Tasteless to promote themselves and GOM. It's not about improving the scene or anything like that. It's about getting those premium subscriptions at 50 bucks each. I can't believe how many of you can't see through the bullshit. You just want to jump on the bandwagon for the ride and throw stones because it's the coolest thing on TL to do. You wonder why Idra always says "the haters don't matter." Well you have your explanation. Every franchise is in business because it's looking out for itself. You'll never find any sports league not in it for the money. Do you think the creator of the World Baseball Classic isn't a marketing campaign for himself and his organization to get more viewers and make more money? Or Nike sponsoring Tennis pros? Hint: They're not really there to further tennis. The only difference between professional sports organizations and GOM is that professional sports organizations have enough experience to milk as much money as they can without making it seem too obvious. It's naive to think that GOM should live up to god-like philanthropist standards which we never expected in the first place. It's not that we can't see through the bullshit. It's our hope that eventually these self-interested parties will start competing with each other and get enough support so that they actually do pay attention to the beauty of the sport itself. Now I think we're on the same ground. And even then, I still feel that Idra and SDM are both hurting e-sports by bm'ing and being unprofessional. But even you can understand how someone would get upset if he vouches for and gives Idra one of two free per year estro licenses and Idra turns out to be a douchebag. | ||
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Zurles
United Kingdom1659 Posts
On June 06 2009 02:05 IdrA wrote: i dont care what people on here said i meant daniels reaction was ridiculous even though it was, you still have to think that changing your attitude is easier than standing all this criticism and bad reactions. There's no logic behind your attitude except for venting your own selfish frustrations at undeserving people, if you're opinion is negative either keep it to yourself, or at least broadcast in a more tactful way? | ||
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[GiTM]-Ace
United States4935 Posts
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StRyKeR
United States1739 Posts
On June 07 2009 02:09 Zurles wrote: even though it was, you still have to think that changing your attitude is easier than standing all this criticism and bad reactions. There's no logic behind your attitude except for venting your own selfish frustrations at undeserving people, if you're opinion is negative either keep it to yourself, or at least broadcast in a more tactful way? Yea, honestly, how long can someone keep touching the hot stove and act like it doesn't hurt. Nerd rage from TL is one thing, but super rage from super daniel man is another, wouldn't you think? If anything, I think for anyone it'd make sense for practical reasons to quit bm'ing now. | ||
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StRyKeR
United States1739 Posts
Once Chris Brown beat his girlfriend all his sponsors dropped out. Should the same happen to Idra because CJ doesn't wanna see BM tied to CJ? | ||
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FirstBorn
Romania3955 Posts
On June 07 2009 01:58 starcraftomatic wrote: let's face it Valor was setup poorly and with little effort and is basically a marketing campaign for Daniel and Tasteless to promote themselves and GOM. It's not about improving the scene or anything like that. It's about getting those premium subscriptions at 50 bucks each. I can't believe how many of you can't see through the bullshit. You just want to jump on the bandwagon for the ride and throw stones because it's the coolest thing on TL to do. You wonder why Idra always says "the haters don't matter." Well you have your explanation. Of course Valor has it's marketing implications considering who's sponsoring them and the fact that vods are being hosted on their site etc.That's what sponsoring is all about, supporting events in exchange for publicity. It's not like I don't see the "bullshit", it's true that GOM had it's blunders in dealing with viewers but I'm hoping they'll get more refined at it. Also, a lot of people have the gotten the idea that Daniel's rage was cause only by Idra's cocky attitude in that particular game, yet I beg to differ. Considering Idra likes to be a cocky and bm it's only normal that he get's rage and Daniel's outburst is a logical consequence. Perhaps he didn't do it in the most professional way but he is entitled to criticise in this matter. | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
The Starcraft Tournament, Valor featuring players from 15 different countries and the total prize money of $1,000 is held by Super 'Daniel' Man & Nick 'Tasteless' Plott and hosted by GOMtv.net. Apparently we've got ![[image loading]](http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/566/supermanh.jpg) And Superman's secret ID is Daniel. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On June 07 2009 02:11 [GiTM]-Ace wrote: Wow this is all sad.. SDM definitely shouldnt have overreacted like that. He was far more BM to us then Idra was to tarson. he wasnt even being BM i agree with the fact that foreigners are unpredictable and in Idras case he's playing pros that he knows what they'll do because thats all they do seriously he didnt say "hey tarsong o fuck your mother you faggot" or anytrhign like that he said foreigners were unpredictable wheres the bm? EDIT : i saw the part i mean shit tarson even went ^^ after idra said he doesnt know what they'll "fuckin" do he wasnt being BM this shits blown up big time | ||
Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On June 07 2009 02:49 heyoka wrote: I'm posting to show my support for the term Idrama and my hope for its continued use in the future I appreciate your support! | ||
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Piste
6183 Posts
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Substandard
Italy270 Posts
On the "Idrama"; yeah Idra has acted bm pretty often in the past, still it wasn't the case here and frankly SDM totally blew the whole thing out of proportion imho. I completley disagree with those people who are saying that Idra doesn't deserve to be in Korea. I care very little for his antics and pity anyone who feels genuinely insulted by a few bm lines after a game of starcraft. I do however give huge props to Idra for actually hanging in there with the heavy training contingent, the language barrier and the terrific skill level of the competition. GJ and keep it up | ||
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Piste
6183 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On June 07 2009 02:25 arb wrote: he wasnt even being BM i agree with the fact that foreigners are unpredictable and in Idras case he's playing pros that he knows what they'll do because thats all they do seriously he didnt say "hey tarsong o fuck your mother you faggot" or anytrhign like that he said foreigners were unpredictable wheres the bm? EDIT : i saw the part i mean shit tarson even went ^^ after idra said he doesnt know what they'll "fuckin" do he wasnt being BM this shits blown up big time What IdrA said translates; I don't know what you newbes will fukkin do because you all play stupid/bad cheesebuilds. Gotta read between the lines considerinig his history of bad mannering. On June 07 2009 00:47 starcraftomatic wrote: There's pages upon pages of trash talking constantly about Idra "BM" when in fact he's not. The simple matter is this is band wagoning and knee-jerking reaction. wut? | ||
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Strayline
United States330 Posts
On June 06 2009 08:00 Lz wrote: i didnt practice but like 6 games on outsider life time ~ Ps. (i lost 0-3 to machine pvz on outsider and beat him 3-0 zvz.. so i figured i might had a better chance) i really just got nervus and psyched myself out and let slow zerglings run me over game 2~ sigh either way i was outplayed. I havnt watched the vods and i dont know if i want to;; might make me really sad over how bad i played lol I was sorry to see you go out early as well. It was a fun to watch you ladder up on your stream. Good luck in your other tournaments  | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On June 07 2009 02:20 FirstBorn wrote: Of course Valor has it's marketing implications considering who's sponsoring them and the fact that vods are being hosted on their site etc.That's what sponsoring is all about, supporting events in exchange for publicity. It's not like I don't see the "bullshit", it's true that GOM had it's blunders in dealing with viewers but I'm hoping they'll get more refined at it. Also, a lot of people have the gotten the idea that Daniel's rage was cause only by Idra's cocky attitude in that particular game, yet I beg to differ. Considering Idra likes to be a cocky and bm it's only normal that he get's rage and Daniel's outburst is a logical consequence. Perhaps he didn't do it in the most professional way but he is entitled to criticise in this matter. Entitled to criticize... not explode when you're casting a game. It was an overreaction and everyone knows it. SDM is a great guy, he's done a lot, and he's very professional.. so his explosion to a rather WEAK trigger this time is just strange. Idra didn't really say anything in that game that warranted such a response lol, he really didn't | ||
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