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A warning from the staff - Page 12

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
277 CommentsPost a Reply
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TehKris
Profile Joined October 2006
Norway322 Posts
March 12 2009 17:42 GMT
#221
GG FAG
Pro Red Alert 2 gamer, aka TR)Microzone on sc.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33723 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-12 17:48:53
March 12 2009 17:47 GMT
#222
On March 12 2009 22:49 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
we're not going to ban just for the word 'fag', that stuff is 100% contextual. that said, most of the time 'fag' is used in a negative context (flaming someone, or just being anti-gay - both of which are bannable), so expect bans to happen with the normal frequency on that subject. there is no link between homosexuality and someone saying 'manner pylon is so gay'.

the difference here is that words like 'nigger' and racist comments are always used in the context that is bannable, there is no alternative usage.

that's the bottom line, and is the approach we are using

Not like the word nigger/niggah is never used in an ironic way -_-

Banning that word without exceptions is fine (since it's pretty limited in its positive usage anyway) but it's nowhere near true that it always has negative connotations.

I don't use the word personally (too stigmatized) but when I hear it the first thing that comes to mind isn't an insult but rap music --;
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
March 12 2009 17:50 GMT
#223
On March 13 2009 02:47 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2009 22:49 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
we're not going to ban just for the word 'fag', that stuff is 100% contextual. that said, most of the time 'fag' is used in a negative context (flaming someone, or just being anti-gay - both of which are bannable), so expect bans to happen with the normal frequency on that subject. there is no link between homosexuality and someone saying 'manner pylon is so gay'.

the difference here is that words like 'nigger' and racist comments are always used in the context that is bannable, there is no alternative usage.

that's the bottom line, and is the approach we are using

Not like the word nigger/niggah is never used in an ironic way -_-


I dunno what kind of argument you are trying to make. Sure it has been done.. and is done in rap music I guess? But I'd contend the frequency of "gay" or "fag" being used in an alternative way or ironic way is far greater than the amount of times "nigger" or "niggah" is used.

Also this forum is populated by 99% white dudes (or asians).. the point being non blacks. And yeah, race matters on a word that references 400 years of oppressive slavery
CDRdude
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States5625 Posts
March 12 2009 18:07 GMT
#224
On March 13 2009 02:50 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
And yeah, race matters on a word that references 400 years of oppressive slavery

I think that sexual orientation matters on a word that references (at least) a thousand years of oppressive homophobia.
Force staff is the best item in the game.
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
March 12 2009 18:14 GMT
#225
On March 13 2009 03:07 CDRdude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2009 02:50 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
And yeah, race matters on a word that references 400 years of oppressive slavery

I think that sexual orientation matters on a word that references (at least) a thousand years of oppressive homophobia.


hahahhahahahahahahahahhaahahhaahahahahhahaa

PLEASE

PLEASE

do not compare "fag" to "nigger" not even suggestively. It simply doesn't compare buddy. REALLY doesn't compare.

Fag = SO many things..

Nigger = 1 very specific point in time where that word was used to literally signify they were less than human.

I could go on but I know you already know all this.
CDRdude
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States5625 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-12 18:30:07
March 12 2009 18:29 GMT
#226
On March 13 2009 03:14 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2009 03:07 CDRdude wrote:
On March 13 2009 02:50 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
And yeah, race matters on a word that references 400 years of oppressive slavery

I think that sexual orientation matters on a word that references (at least) a thousand years of oppressive homophobia.


hahahhahahahahahahahahhaahahhaahahahahhahaa

PLEASE

PLEASE

do not compare "fag" to "nigger" not even suggestively. It simply doesn't compare buddy. REALLY doesn't compare.

Fag = SO many things..

Nigger = 1 very specific point in time where that word was used to literally signify they were less than human.

I could go on but I know you already know all this.

Oh? Why shouldn't I compare the words? Black people were never officially sentenced to death just because they were black. Gay people were, sentenced to death for being gay for thousands of years, during the middle ages, and the practice still continues to this day. Black people had to deal with some harsh oppression, but it was never illegal for them to exist. I'm honestly not sure where you're coming from on this. Yes, slavery was bad. So is homophobia.
Force staff is the best item in the game.
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
March 12 2009 18:36 GMT
#227
On March 13 2009 03:29 CDRdude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2009 03:14 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
On March 13 2009 03:07 CDRdude wrote:
On March 13 2009 02:50 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
And yeah, race matters on a word that references 400 years of oppressive slavery

I think that sexual orientation matters on a word that references (at least) a thousand years of oppressive homophobia.


hahahhahahahahahahahahhaahahhaahahahahhahaa

PLEASE

PLEASE

do not compare "fag" to "nigger" not even suggestively. It simply doesn't compare buddy. REALLY doesn't compare.

Fag = SO many things..

Nigger = 1 very specific point in time where that word was used to literally signify they were less than human.

I could go on but I know you already know all this.

Oh? Why shouldn't I compare the words? Black people were never officially sentenced to death just because they were black. Gay people were, sentenced to death for being gay for thousands of years, during the middle ages, and the practice still continues to this day. Black people had to deal with some harsh oppression, but it was never illegal for them to exist. I'm honestly not sure where you're coming from on this. Yes, slavery was bad. So is homophobia.


You are comparing apples to oranges. And I cannot believe you are comparing an ethnic race to sexual orientation. That is beyond ignorant.

And yes, black people have been sentenced to death for being black loool. I cannot take this conversation serious anymore dude. Read up on the subject.. like _at all_.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33723 Posts
March 12 2009 18:38 GMT
#228
On March 13 2009 02:50 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2009 02:47 FrozenArbiter wrote:
On March 12 2009 22:49 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
we're not going to ban just for the word 'fag', that stuff is 100% contextual. that said, most of the time 'fag' is used in a negative context (flaming someone, or just being anti-gay - both of which are bannable), so expect bans to happen with the normal frequency on that subject. there is no link between homosexuality and someone saying 'manner pylon is so gay'.

the difference here is that words like 'nigger' and racist comments are always used in the context that is bannable, there is no alternative usage.

that's the bottom line, and is the approach we are using

Not like the word nigger/niggah is never used in an ironic way -_-


I dunno what kind of argument you are trying to make. Sure it has been done.. and is done in rap music I guess? But I'd contend the frequency of "gay" or "fag" being used in an alternative way or ironic way is far greater than the amount of times "nigger" or "niggah" is used.

Also this forum is populated by 99% white dudes (or asians).. the point being non blacks. And yeah, race matters on a word that references 400 years of oppressive slavery

He said the word nigger ALWAYS carries racist connotations, and I don't think it does. I think it's a significantly stronger word than fag tho ;o
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
March 12 2009 18:40 GMT
#229
On March 13 2009 03:38 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2009 02:50 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
On March 13 2009 02:47 FrozenArbiter wrote:
On March 12 2009 22:49 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
we're not going to ban just for the word 'fag', that stuff is 100% contextual. that said, most of the time 'fag' is used in a negative context (flaming someone, or just being anti-gay - both of which are bannable), so expect bans to happen with the normal frequency on that subject. there is no link between homosexuality and someone saying 'manner pylon is so gay'.

the difference here is that words like 'nigger' and racist comments are always used in the context that is bannable, there is no alternative usage.

that's the bottom line, and is the approach we are using

Not like the word nigger/niggah is never used in an ironic way -_-


I dunno what kind of argument you are trying to make. Sure it has been done.. and is done in rap music I guess? But I'd contend the frequency of "gay" or "fag" being used in an alternative way or ironic way is far greater than the amount of times "nigger" or "niggah" is used.

Also this forum is populated by 99% white dudes (or asians).. the point being non blacks. And yeah, race matters on a word that references 400 years of oppressive slavery

He said the word nigger ALWAYS carries racist connotations, and I don't think it does. I think it's a significantly stronger word than fag tho ;o


yeah but nitpicking is a bothersome activity.

Kinda like what I am doing I guess >_<
CDRdude
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States5625 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-12 18:47:32
March 12 2009 18:45 GMT
#230
I really don't get what you're trying to say, there is some kind of huge disconnect here. Are we even talking about the same thing?
You are comparing apples to oranges. And I cannot believe you are comparing an ethnic race to sexual orientation. That is beyond ignorant.

The context is words that have a history of discrimination. I'm saying that 'nigger' is to black people as 'fag' is to homosexuals. Is that so hard to understand? Is that what you consider ignorant?

And yes, black people have been sentenced to death for being black loool.

You missed the key word in my sentence which was 'official', in this case meant as through the legal system. If there was ever a law somewhere that worked out to "it's illegal to be black, punishable by death", I do not know of it. There were a lot of harsh laws about black people, but I don't know of any regulating their existence.

I cannot take this conversation serious anymore dude. Read up on the subject.. like _at all_.

I would urge you to read up on the subject yourself. It looks to me like you're automatically entering forum troll mode on a subject which means a lot to a lot of people. You are making no effort to understand the other person's point of view, much less what I'm saying in my posts; they aren't long posts either. This must be what trying to reason with Raithed is like.
Force staff is the best item in the game.
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-12 18:54:40
March 12 2009 18:54 GMT
#231
On March 13 2009 03:45 CDRdude wrote:
I really don't get what you're trying to say, there is some kind of huge disconnect here. Are we even talking about the same thing?
Show nested quote +
You are comparing apples to oranges. And I cannot believe you are comparing an ethnic race to sexual orientation. That is beyond ignorant.

The context is words that have a history of discrimination. I'm saying that 'nigger' is to black people as 'fag' is to homosexuals. Is that so hard to understand? Is that what you consider ignorant?

Show nested quote +
And yes, black people have been sentenced to death for being black loool.

You missed the key word in my sentence which was 'official', in this case meant as through the legal system. If there was ever a law somewhere that worked out to "it's illegal to be black, punishable by death", I do not know of it. There were a lot of harsh laws about black people, but I don't know of any regulating their existence.

Show nested quote +
I cannot take this conversation serious anymore dude. Read up on the subject.. like _at all_.

I would urge you to read up on the subject yourself. It looks to me like you're automatically entering forum troll mode on a subject which means a lot to a lot of people. You are making no effort to understand the other person's point of view, much less what I'm saying in my posts; they aren't long posts either. This must be what trying to reason with Raithed is like.


No I would assume reasoning with raithed isn't like trying to convince someone that fag = nigger. Actually wait, it probably is like that.

No go ahead dude. Preach on. Tell me how the word "official" suddenly puts homophobic oppression over what happened/happens to african-americans/blacks. Tell me how fag has no context where it is ok like the word nigger. Nevermind that fag = bundle of sticks or cig at one point or another. And nigger has ALWAYS had the same terrible meaning.

Tell me how sexual orientation of favoring your own sex and facing oppressive social discomfort(not proven to be genetic) can be similar to being born black and forced into slavery/death/dehumanization.
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9643 Posts
March 12 2009 19:13 GMT
#232
dude saying a fag is a bundle of sticks is some grade school bullshit to get away with saying a bad word
that kind of bullshit does not support your cause.
CDRdude
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States5625 Posts
March 12 2009 19:15 GMT
#233
What the hell man? Are you even reading my posts? I'm not talking about how the word official magically changes everything. I worded my post poorly, but I thought I clarified it in my next post. I'll try to explain it again, in case I was unclear. I meant to say that a nation or state's legal system (that's where the word official came in) never made it punishable by death to be black. Legal systems past and present have made homoxsexuality punishable by death. In that regard, I think that homophobic oppression has been worse than what happened to blacks. As for facing "oppressive social discomfort" for being homosexual, maybe executions/murders/beatings count as social discomfort to you, but to me that's very similar to being forced into slavery/death/dehumanization.
Force staff is the best item in the game.
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
March 12 2009 19:22 GMT
#234
On March 13 2009 04:15 CDRdude wrote:
What the hell man? Are you even reading my posts? I'm not talking about how the word official magically changes everything. I worded my post poorly, but I thought I clarified it in my next post. I'll try to explain it again, in case I was unclear. I meant to say that a nation or state's legal system (that's where the word official came in) never made it punishable by death to be black. Legal systems past and present have made homoxsexuality punishable by death. In that regard, I think that homophobic oppression has been worse than what happened to blacks. As for facing "oppressive social discomfort" for being homosexual, maybe executions/murders/beatings count as social discomfort to you, but to me that's very similar to being forced into slavery/death/dehumanization.


Dude common? Homosexuality is arguably a choice, condition or at the very least a culture that a bunch of people have/choose. This gets blurry, and it is dangerous to even discuss with my current attention span (I don't feel like throwing the page long disclaimer necessary to properly discuss this without stepping on toes) but being black ethnically is leagues away from being homosexual. You literally can hide being a homosexual. You can never hide being black. You literally can choose to be homosexual. You literally can never choose to be back (woopsplastic surgery). "Official" is a nuance that gains you no ground. Blacks have been killed by states all over the world for being black and it HAS been official in so many places, including nazi germany. But that is a semantic. In the 400 years of slavery the US killed MANY blacks FOR BEING BLACK official or not it happened and that is ALL THAT MATTERS.

But this historical debate is garbage. I am simply saying nigger is FAR AND AWAY a worse thing to say in the context of this forum, the usa or really anywhere when compared to the word fag. Your personal preference aside: That is about as close to fact as we can get on such a subject.
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9643 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-12 19:41:33
March 12 2009 19:37 GMT
#235
completely unnecessary post

sorry.
MacWorld
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden227 Posts
March 12 2009 19:49 GMT
#236
Why are we even debating how or why these should be used?

Both are equally offensive to the general black person or general homosexual. Nigger is to a black person as fag is to a homosexual. Using these words, even in an ironic or sarcastic way, should be bannable.

FakeSteve[TPR]: ...that stuff is 100% contextual"..."there is no link between homosexuality and someone saying 'manner pylon is so gay'"

I disagree with you - I think it´s 0% contextual - any word that is offensive to race, gender or heritage should not be accepted. That is my opinion, as I see no reason to use those kind of words to express myself, specially not with the history both these categories of people have had.
Naib
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Hungary4952 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-12 21:54:25
March 12 2009 21:52 GMT
#237
Being homosexual is actually NOT a choice (and yes, I have been reading up on it). It isn't just genetics, but a part of the X chromosome has influence. Other factors are childhood interactions / trauma , and environment that one grows up in. (Yes, before you ask it's the short and vague version, you can read up on it yourself )

It isn't 100% pre-determined that someone is homosexual, but saying that it's a "choice" is pretty damn ignorant.

I would rather stay away from the other parts of this debate, but seeing a similar topic about homosexuality and reading how ignorant people are about this subject (and how they just throw unfounded opinions around like 100% bulletproof facts), I felt like I had to step in and share something what I didn't just pull out of my ass...
Complete the cycle!
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
March 12 2009 21:55 GMT
#238
On March 13 2009 06:52 Naib wrote:
Being homosexual is actually NOT a choice (and yes, I have been reading up on it). It isn't just genetics, but a part of the X chromosome has influence. Other factors are childhood interactions / trauma , and environment that one grows up in.

It isn't 100% pre-determined that someone is homosexual, but saying that it's a "choice" is pretty damn ignorant.

I would rather stay away from the other parts of this debate, but seeing a similar topic about homosexuality and reading how ignorant people are about this subject (and how they just throw unfounded opinions around like 100% bulletproof facts), I felt like I had to step in and share something what I didn't just pull out of my ass...


I wasn't saying being a homosexual is a choice. I was trying to say the lifestyle is a choice and I think some homosexuals DO choose to be homosexual to a certain degree. I also think / know others are homosexual because of environmental things like child abuse, rape or other traumatic events. I think there could be a genetic causal link as well.

Mostly I think the issue is very undecided and very hard to grasp in a few words. Don't get uppity on me because I gave all the disclaimers necessary. If you think I am trying to offend homosexuals you are wrong. If you think perhaps I am trying to argue the concept of "fag" vs nigger/rape on this forum specifically you are correct.
HooHa!
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
United States688 Posts
March 12 2009 22:11 GMT
#239
I think the mods can use good judgment on when to apply discipline to those who mistreat others.

This is just a warning from them, so just watch the language and belittling and don't be cry-babies about it.
Hoo Ra!
Naib
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Hungary4952 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-12 22:14:02
March 12 2009 22:11 GMT
#240
On March 13 2009 06:55 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2009 06:52 Naib wrote:
Being homosexual is actually NOT a choice (and yes, I have been reading up on it). It isn't just genetics, but a part of the X chromosome has influence. Other factors are childhood interactions / trauma , and environment that one grows up in.

It isn't 100% pre-determined that someone is homosexual, but saying that it's a "choice" is pretty damn ignorant.

I would rather stay away from the other parts of this debate, but seeing a similar topic about homosexuality and reading how ignorant people are about this subject (and how they just throw unfounded opinions around like 100% bulletproof facts), I felt like I had to step in and share something what I didn't just pull out of my ass...


I wasn't saying being a homosexual is a choice. I was trying to say the lifestyle is a choice and I think some homosexuals DO choose to be homosexual to a certain degree. I also think / know others are homosexual because of environmental things like child abuse, rape or other traumatic events. I think there could be a genetic causal link as well.

Mostly I think the issue is very undecided and very hard to grasp in a few words. Don't get uppity on me because I gave all the disclaimers necessary. If you think I am trying to offend homosexuals you are wrong. If you think perhaps I am trying to argue the concept of "fag" vs nigger/rape on this forum specifically you are correct.


Ok, maybe I went too far in choosing my words Geoff, I didn't mean to insult you. Your post came off to me as if you were trying to say that, but if you meant the hiding identity (being a homosexual) part as a "choice" then we aren't in disagreement.

Yes, it isn't a decided issue yet, but what I said is where science today stands at.

I do not wish to argue fag / gay vs nigger / rape here, I just feel the need to correct any misunderstanding that would come from your post above.

(My opinion would be "fag" and the like being more acceptable than "nigga" , but that's just an opinion. The only basis is what I feel

Oh and I'm pretty sure the mods can apply good judgement based on their conscience, I don't think a debate like this is needed too much)
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