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On December 01 2008 09:36 thestool91 wrote:
ok guys, some of u who said flash is weak against zerg, please tell me ur joking. he has a 62 percent ratio against zerg, and i dont think thats weak. sure, its his weakest matchup according to stats, but hes still a tank. id call him the perfect terran over xellos, even though im a xellos fan
ktf is showing great signs. hoejja and tempest look like they have potential, flash and luxury. i dont even know what happened to 815 but im sure he will be back...hopefully
Look at his recent record vs Zerg, don't forget the GSL S1 Finals, it's not as dominant as his other MUs and certainly doesn't look invincible against good zergs.
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United States1865 Posts
On December 01 2008 05:56 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 03:32 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:27 Frits wrote:On December 01 2008 03:12 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:01 Frits wrote:
I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first. I'm a little bit frustrated when people use this argument, becuase we both know these maps will never get the hundreds of plays needed to get a truly accurate measurement before its on to the next season and new maps. The most you can do is look at the general trend -- which is that every single map has more Protoss winners than Zerg, that the overall win ratio in Proleauge for that matchup is favorable to Protoss (which has quite a large number of games) and the (yes, subjective) evidence that extremely strong zerg players with numerous medals such as Jaedong are losing to a guy that has had 4 televised ZvP in his entire career, half of which he lost. Yeah but the general trend isn't significant so it might as well be coincidence. So you think this season's maps dont favor Protoss? Not to the extent where you can bitch and whine about them, or use them in any way shape or form to rationalize Jaedongs defeat.
Dont troll. Have a reasonable argument or dont post.
Notice that Jaedong dominated on the one map in the pool that could be considered balanced -- the Neo Requiem game showed perfect form ZvP and Jaedong both microing better and having far far far superior decision making, because the map allowed for those things to shine.
Then notice how the other two games were A-move timing attack build order wins, the sign of a weakness in Jaedong's play, yes, but only someone completely ignorant would say that he just forgot about the possibility of a timing attack in the hundreds of practice games he played prior to this match. He went for the economy/build that he did because he figured it to be his best choice for the maps, and he got rolled over by a timing attack.
Think about it like this: If all 3 games had been played on Neo Requiem, do you think Tempest would have won? I think anyone that watched the games would say that he would not.
*edit*
And this is just the argument from the Zerg perspective -- I can hardly see how anyone could make the case that the current map pool doesnt favor Protoss in PvT
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As much as I love Stork, I have to say that the overgrowth of protosses in later rounds is getting hella annoying.
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Hahaha lol at you Zerg fans crying. PvZ is now the same as it was 1+ year ago! It seems that zerg has to actually put a little bit extra into every game in order to win ZvP, just like Protosses had to do in the past.
Justice exists!
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im sick of watchin pvx
srsly first clubday and now this wtf
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On December 01 2008 09:59 Atrioc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 05:56 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 01 2008 03:32 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:27 Frits wrote:On December 01 2008 03:12 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:01 Frits wrote:
I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first. I'm a little bit frustrated when people use this argument, becuase we both know these maps will never get the hundreds of plays needed to get a truly accurate measurement before its on to the next season and new maps. The most you can do is look at the general trend -- which is that every single map has more Protoss winners than Zerg, that the overall win ratio in Proleauge for that matchup is favorable to Protoss (which has quite a large number of games) and the (yes, subjective) evidence that extremely strong zerg players with numerous medals such as Jaedong are losing to a guy that has had 4 televised ZvP in his entire career, half of which he lost. Yeah but the general trend isn't significant so it might as well be coincidence. So you think this season's maps dont favor Protoss? Not to the extent where you can bitch and whine about them, or use them in any way shape or form to rationalize Jaedongs defeat. Dont troll. Have a reasonable argument or dont post. Notice that Jaedong dominated on the one map in the pool that could be considered balanced -- the Neo Requiem game showed perfect form ZvP and Jaedong both microing better and having far far far superior decision making, because the map allowed for those things to shine. Then notice how the other two games were A-move timing attack build order wins, the sign of a weakness in Jaedong's play, yes, but only someone completely ignorant would say that he just forgot about the possibility of a timing attack in the hundreds of practice games he played prior to this match. He went for the economy/build that he did because he figured it to be his best choice for the maps, and he got rolled over by a timing attack. Think about it like this: If all 3 games had been played on Neo Requiem, do you think Tempest would have won? I think anyone that watched the games would say that he would not. *edit* And this is just the argument from the Zerg perspective -- I can hardly see how anyone could make the case that the current map pool doesnt favor Protoss in PvT
Man i dont know how you think this argument is valid, the map pool isnt all neo req so why even say it, Jaedong lost just get over it
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On December 01 2008 12:17 Scaramanga wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 09:59 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 05:56 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 01 2008 03:32 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:27 Frits wrote:On December 01 2008 03:12 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:01 Frits wrote:
I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first. I'm a little bit frustrated when people use this argument, becuase we both know these maps will never get the hundreds of plays needed to get a truly accurate measurement before its on to the next season and new maps. The most you can do is look at the general trend -- which is that every single map has more Protoss winners than Zerg, that the overall win ratio in Proleauge for that matchup is favorable to Protoss (which has quite a large number of games) and the (yes, subjective) evidence that extremely strong zerg players with numerous medals such as Jaedong are losing to a guy that has had 4 televised ZvP in his entire career, half of which he lost. Yeah but the general trend isn't significant so it might as well be coincidence. So you think this season's maps dont favor Protoss? Not to the extent where you can bitch and whine about them, or use them in any way shape or form to rationalize Jaedongs defeat. Dont troll. Have a reasonable argument or dont post. Notice that Jaedong dominated on the one map in the pool that could be considered balanced -- the Neo Requiem game showed perfect form ZvP and Jaedong both microing better and having far far far superior decision making, because the map allowed for those things to shine. Then notice how the other two games were A-move timing attack build order wins, the sign of a weakness in Jaedong's play, yes, but only someone completely ignorant would say that he just forgot about the possibility of a timing attack in the hundreds of practice games he played prior to this match. He went for the economy/build that he did because he figured it to be his best choice for the maps, and he got rolled over by a timing attack. Think about it like this: If all 3 games had been played on Neo Requiem, do you think Tempest would have won? I think anyone that watched the games would say that he would not. *edit* And this is just the argument from the Zerg perspective -- I can hardly see how anyone could make the case that the current map pool doesnt favor Protoss in PvT Man i dont know how you think this argument is valid, the map pool isnt all neo req so why even say it, Jaedong lost just get over it
You are not a Flash fanboy, you are a Jaedong fanboy-hater, you always dismiss arguments with one-liner get over its, honestly.
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On December 01 2008 12:27 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 12:17 Scaramanga wrote:On December 01 2008 09:59 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 05:56 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 01 2008 03:32 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:27 Frits wrote:On December 01 2008 03:12 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:01 Frits wrote:
I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first. I'm a little bit frustrated when people use this argument, becuase we both know these maps will never get the hundreds of plays needed to get a truly accurate measurement before its on to the next season and new maps. The most you can do is look at the general trend -- which is that every single map has more Protoss winners than Zerg, that the overall win ratio in Proleauge for that matchup is favorable to Protoss (which has quite a large number of games) and the (yes, subjective) evidence that extremely strong zerg players with numerous medals such as Jaedong are losing to a guy that has had 4 televised ZvP in his entire career, half of which he lost. Yeah but the general trend isn't significant so it might as well be coincidence. So you think this season's maps dont favor Protoss? Not to the extent where you can bitch and whine about them, or use them in any way shape or form to rationalize Jaedongs defeat. Dont troll. Have a reasonable argument or dont post. Notice that Jaedong dominated on the one map in the pool that could be considered balanced -- the Neo Requiem game showed perfect form ZvP and Jaedong both microing better and having far far far superior decision making, because the map allowed for those things to shine. Then notice how the other two games were A-move timing attack build order wins, the sign of a weakness in Jaedong's play, yes, but only someone completely ignorant would say that he just forgot about the possibility of a timing attack in the hundreds of practice games he played prior to this match. He went for the economy/build that he did because he figured it to be his best choice for the maps, and he got rolled over by a timing attack. Think about it like this: If all 3 games had been played on Neo Requiem, do you think Tempest would have won? I think anyone that watched the games would say that he would not. *edit* And this is just the argument from the Zerg perspective -- I can hardly see how anyone could make the case that the current map pool doesnt favor Protoss in PvT Man i dont know how you think this argument is valid, the map pool isnt all neo req so why even say it, Jaedong lost just get over it You are not a Flash fanboy, you are a Jaedong fanboy-hater, you always dismiss arguments with one-liner get over its, honestly.
No, im pointing out a horribly flawed argument, hes trying to justify jaedongs loss because of the maps, clearly jaedong should have overcome this map imbalance being the player that he is but he didnt, im just saying get over it
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And the circus started again... Jaedong is out and fanboys are going crazy blaming everyone and everything...
Medusa is fairly ok for ZvP. The record is 9:11 while 4 out of 11 wins for Protoss come from Bisu who is on fire and he is typical vZ sniper. If anything Medusa is imbalanced against Terran who are freaking 33.3% against zergs and 25% against protoss and yet I don't see whining boys crying for Terrans as they fell one after the other... Sigh... Just accept please that Jaedong is not in the form lately.
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On December 01 2008 13:20 Lebesgue wrote:
And the circus started again... Jaedong is out and fanboys are going crazy blaming everyone and everything...
Medusa is fairly ok for ZvP. The record is 9:11 while 4 out of 11 wins for Protoss come from Bisu who is on fire and he is typical vZ sniper. If anything Medusa is imbalanced against Terran who are freaking 33.3% against zergs and 25% against protoss and yet I don't see whining boys crying for Terrans as they fell one after the other... Sigh... Just accept please that Jaedong is not in the form lately.
While the cause of the "blame" is due to Jaedong's subpar performance, their arguments, for the most part are correct--the maps give the protoss the advantage.
On December 01 2008 06:14 adelarge wrote:
How can you deny these frigging maps aren't imbalanced? (speaking about TvP)
Fun fact: Only 4 Terrans in Ro16. NONE of them have to face Protoss on these maps. Mind, Flash, pepe, sKyHigh - they all played only Zergs or Terrans.
When Terran meet Protoss on these maps, he got kicked out. Coincidence? Yeah, maybe, but I won't be surprised when all Terrans get kicked out next round. And PvP si so boring...*sigh*.
btw. - I just noticed TLPD isn't updated for some games. For example pepe vs Frozean or forGG vs SoO...
On December 01 2008 09:59 Atrioc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 05:56 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 01 2008 03:32 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:27 Frits wrote:On December 01 2008 03:12 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:01 Frits wrote:
I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first. I'm a little bit frustrated when people use this argument, becuase we both know these maps will never get the hundreds of plays needed to get a truly accurate measurement before its on to the next season and new maps. The most you can do is look at the general trend -- which is that every single map has more Protoss winners than Zerg, that the overall win ratio in Proleauge for that matchup is favorable to Protoss (which has quite a large number of games) and the (yes, subjective) evidence that extremely strong zerg players with numerous medals such as Jaedong are losing to a guy that has had 4 televised ZvP in his entire career, half of which he lost. Yeah but the general trend isn't significant so it might as well be coincidence. So you think this season's maps dont favor Protoss? Not to the extent where you can bitch and whine about them, or use them in any way shape or form to rationalize Jaedongs defeat. Dont troll. Have a reasonable argument or dont post. Notice that Jaedong dominated on the one map in the pool that could be considered balanced -- the Neo Requiem game showed perfect form ZvP and Jaedong both microing better and having far far far superior decision making, because the map allowed for those things to shine. Then notice how the other two games were A-move timing attack build order wins, the sign of a weakness in Jaedong's play, yes, but only someone completely ignorant would say that he just forgot about the possibility of a timing attack in the hundreds of practice games he played prior to this match. He went for the economy/build that he did because he figured it to be his best choice for the maps, and he got rolled over by a timing attack. Think about it like this: If all 3 games had been played on Neo Requiem, do you think Tempest would have won? I think anyone that watched the games would say that he would not. *edit* And this is just the argument from the Zerg perspective -- I can hardly see how anyone could make the case that the current map pool doesnt favor Protoss in PvT
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Protoss is 1a2a3a4a, even Midas thinks so.
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I tell you guys, the finals will be Mind vs Free 
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dont;;;
Surprised that tempest beat jaedong and hoejja beat much.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
Map Pool = Better for Protoss
When Flash got into the scene = 6 wins on the INFAMOUS KATRINA! (ONLY TERRAN TO DO THIS)
When flash broke into the scene = GSI
Current Era = Protoss Era
Terran's last hope against protoss = Flash
Flash Build = Destroys all protoss except if they go carrier build which gets undetected.
Flash = Carrier Killer, and gave Stork 2 silvers.
LETZ GO FLASH MAKE SOME PROTOSS BITCHES CRY
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WTF????  Jaedong LOST??? omg,  Flash is left alone... i predict its gonna be a Flash vs  Stork final again. anyone?
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On December 01 2008 14:10 Manit0u wrote:I tell you guys, the finals will be Mind vs Free
I will peel off my testicles if this happens. pls check brackets.
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On December 01 2008 14:16 MrHoon wrote:
Map Pool = Better for Protoss
When Flash got into the scene = 6 wins on the INFAMOUS KATRINA! (ONLY TERRAN TO DO THIS)
When flash broke into the scene = GSI
Current Era = Protoss Era
Terran's last hope against protoss = Flash
Flash Build = Destroys all protoss except if they go carrier build which gets undetected.
Flash = Carrier Killer, and gave Stork 2 silvers.
LETZ GO FLASH MAKE SOME PROTOSS BITCHES CRY
Im with you there. I want Flash to tear up all the toss that comes his way except for Stork. Stork will be GSL Champ as long as either Mind or Free beats Kal
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domination doesn't exist anymore. its too competitive
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Bisu and Jangbi for finals! (again)
you know it's gonna happen
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u106/jodogohoo/1a2a3a4a.jpg)
