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Predictions:
Much
Kal
Midas
Jaedong
There's always the BackHo factor though... damn BackHo. C'mon Midas, win this one!
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Much > Hoejja
Kal > ToSky
Midas > FailHo
Jaedong > Tempest..
Easy calls, seriously, except that FailHo could fail at failing.
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My prediction:
Much
Kal
BackHo
Jaedong
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I'm feeling cynical after the results of the last few weeks, so I'm gonna predict that every protoss wins. That's right, I'm proclaiming right here and now that  Tempest will beat  Jaedong. Today, zergs world-wide will die a little inside.
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I think I'll watch the first two games. Always love Much and Kal's PvZ tends to be entertaining. But Midas/Backho is just a fight to be raped by Stork next round. And I don't expect to see much of a contest in the last set.
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Much, Kal, Midas, Jaedong. Pretty safe bets.
It'll break my heart if Midas loses to Backho though.
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I think I voted for:
Much
Kal
Backho
Jaedong
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The countdown in the OP is a nice touch...
Voted for Much, Kal, Midas, and Jaedong.
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Oh man, with all the excitement around the PL I almost forgot about this. :D
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woo woo im excited 
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What's with these people singing?
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apparently its Your My Lady by Korean Squiggles That I Can't Read
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This is an awesome music video.
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LOL BOYBAND I LOVE IT
EDIT: TITTYSAMBO ROFL
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Seems like the map set in the OP is not the one used today. It's gonna be Destination/Neo Requiem/Medusa like last week.
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On November 30 2008 18:02 PoP wrote:
Seems like the map set in the OP is not the one used today. It's gonna be Destination/Neo Requiem/Medusa like last week.
Yeah, I was going off what they had listed on their website. I changed it once susie told us what maps were being played
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0_0 much going to the military!
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Haha, if good players keep getting drafted at this pace ACE will be imba.
And Susie's hair looks great today 
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yeah they'll change it in Ro16
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4 words about the 3set.
You
Just
Got
Backho'd
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Tis good, staying up late, (took a nap earlier today) and trying to not get caught by the parents, should be a fun night. Let us pray for good matches. I am liking lil susies hair right now! Looks good.
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Susie reminds me of Rinoa from FF8... random nostalgia whee!
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Much should be able to take this with out to much trouble as long as he avoids reavers
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United States17042 Posts
alright, much and hojja on destination? zerg at 6, toss at 12
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51449 Posts
Remind, now Hoejja.
Left handers!
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On November 30 2008 18:15 Mastermind wrote:
Much should be able to take this with out to much trouble as long as he avoids reavers
Gotta stay away from much scarabs.
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whoa. hoejja is left handed! That shot of him spamming hotkeys was wacky!
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United States17042 Posts
9 pool speed build from zerg, toss looking like they're going to fe.
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United States17042 Posts
speed upgrading from hoejja, probe is keeping track of the zerglings from much. 2 cannons going up for much.
hatch goes up for hoejja
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United States17042 Posts
hoejja is looking to mine the mineral patch behind much'es base, or possibly a proxy hatch. either of them could look pretty freaking cool
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United States17042 Posts
really innovative, but it looks like hoejja is only going to keep much from mining for a little bit.
much puts a cannon up in his main min line, hoejja expands again.
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United States17042 Posts
2 zeaals, and the cannon was forced to build for hoejja
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I love that those two lings are now just chilling between Much's main and nat.
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United States17042 Posts
looks like 3 hatch muta going up for hoejja, a fourth hatch is starting up. much has just started his temp tech, becuase he was forced to build 4 cannons. Just started his first corsair as well.
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United States17042 Posts
first two scourge look like they're going to take out the first sair, it depends how well much is going to be able to defnd. hydra den just started going up for hoejja
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Not a half bad joke by tastless.
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hahahahah tasteless is awsome
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United States17042 Posts
much is tossing up a ton of cannons to defend against any sort of cheese from hoejja, the dt from much (first 2) don't really do anything.
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Most annoying thing tasteless does: Stop talking then say, purposefully "uuuumm, OK!"
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Very impt moment if nothing happens to toss he might win.
yup, he's in good shape for now.
then he loses all templar...
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United States17042 Posts
mutas out to snipe the ht, really good storsm from much though . hoejja's gonna need some micro if he wants to hold off much.
much statrs his third base, 3 cannons going up at 3 for much.
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United States17042 Posts
about 3 control units of hydra lose to about a control of zeals and 2 archons. the mutas are still doing a good job of sniping ht, much looks like he's going to lose his third base.
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GG much, needed that econ
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oh god much locked his archon into his base
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Those sniped HTs killed Much, hydra army raped zealots -_-
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United States17042 Posts
cannons are still protecting his main and nat, much is going to have trouble recovering.
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wow hoejja is doing great
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2 templar one lurker shot?
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Oh damn it 2 Hts killed by 1 lurker spine
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Much what the fuck!? Haha. The only thing good about this is this zerg is KTF!
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United States17042 Posts
hoejja manages to sneak about 2 control units of hydra into much's base, and now is wrecking havock. Much is in toruble, he's going to lose his second gas. There is 1 obs out, it looks like much is going to keep all of his tech if he can manage to stay in the game.
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United States17042 Posts
looks like hoejja isn't gonig to let up, with about 5 hatch hydra. Much gg's
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GG soon, Much outmacroed by Hoejja
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wow, much just got rolled
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United States10774 Posts
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51449 Posts
by any chance is hoejja chojja's jeja?
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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sAw
965 Posts
very clever play by Hoejja
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Tasteless is in the ascendency, that's why he's forming a British accent.
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Hoejja saved so much money, drones, larvas by not having any static defense at all for a long time.
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On November 30 2008 18:28 Vasoline73 wrote:
Much what the fuck!? Haha. The only thing good about this is this zerg is KTF!
The more Zerg still in the competition the better.
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hoejja is lefthanded,cool.
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Fact: Firebats are mammals.
LOL!
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who was the firebat guy in furr overcoat? looked crazy
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United States17042 Posts
much 2 gates, 9 pool speed from hoejja
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2gate for much, hatch at nat for hoejja.
Much is probably thinking, damn Bisu build, ninja DTs failed me last game
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United States17042 Posts
3 probes 2 zeals out for much
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I had Firebat roasted Zergling for Thanksgiving
Wouldn't reccomend it. Slimy.
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double the supply, this is over
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Much going for main with 5 zeals 2 probes, should've blocked ramp with 2 hold zealots -_-
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United States17042 Posts
good micro from hoejja, much might be able to do a lot of damage
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Much got rolled, lair morphing for hoejja
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United States17042 Posts
much can now 1 base tech, they're probably about even now that hoejja was forced to build so many lings early
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Much engaging Hoejja's nat, 4 sunkens down for Hoejja.
+1 speedzeals soon.
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I agree, drops would win this for hoejja
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United States17042 Posts
looks like two base lurker from hoejja, much is running around with a control of zeal and about 4 goons
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what was with no luker use during that rush?
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United States10774 Posts
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No spire for Hoejja, takes his 2nd
Much attacks! Speedzeals deal decent damage but too many sunkens, tries to move into main but Hoejja blocks with lurker eggs
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is it just me or is hoejja the sickest player
he plays so so so well
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Why do I not see observers yet? Do i need glasses? COMON MUCH!
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United States17042 Posts
spire is about to finish, and much just got his expo out
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Oh shit Much ferrying troops into Hoejja's main!
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United States17042 Posts
third hat goes up for hoejja, elevator for much into the main
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Damn Hoejja barely hung on
Much was too greedy, didn't manage to take anything out. Hoejja going mutas and raping Much
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On November 30 2008 18:41 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
is it just me or is hoejja the sickest player
he plays so so so well
He is the best guy ever.
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much is terrible seriously, he might win this game but that doesnt mean anything
pool almost dead
hatch almost dead
spire almost dead
lair almost dead
yet 0 buildings killed, lol
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United States17042 Posts
much must br planning to come in with 2 more archons and destroy all the tech
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hey and he almost managed to kill the extractor go much!!
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I question the descion to use achons and not HTs. HTs would be able to break a lurker contain if it happens
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wow, much gonna get owned again
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(silence)...... *scourge fly in* AAAAAAAAAAA!
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United States17042 Posts
2 scourge get the shuttle, much is trying to defend his nat
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51449 Posts
Has there ever been a game on Requiem which has resorted to mining from the centre minerals?
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Ah, Much's hidden 3rd gets discovered
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much might win this..
but this zerg is playing quite good
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On November 30 2008 18:46 GTR-2-Go wrote:
Has there ever been a game on Requiem which has resorted to mining from the centre minerals?
I can't recall the exact game, but I recall watching a VOD from a long time ago, I think a PvT, where the center minerals were mined.
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On November 30 2008 18:46 GTR-2-Go wrote:
Has there ever been a game on Requiem which has resorted to mining from the centre minerals?
Never seen it GTR, and it would be nigh impossible to defend
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ouch
FAIL ATTACK
FAIL FAIL :D
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I just don't understand how Much is alive at all, 4v2 base?
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United States10774 Posts
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God I love Tasteless's commentary.
"That probe just gave up on life."
"RUN AWAY MUTAS"
"That archon doesn't know when to quit."
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but seriously
this zerg is a mixture of july, jeadong and savior :D
he is really impressing me so far..
but i think this game will still be very close..
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Oh, Much, getting whipped on Requiem... So sad. 
Is it time for grandpa toss to retire?
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"I have to go tell the others!"
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lurker drop behind much`s expo would be good for z now ^^ nice play by the zerg, took me by surprise
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well that decision was baaad
much attacks instead of moving units back to his base to defend the drop..
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once they add this beast to proleague he will be a part of my team
hoejja fan right here
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the zerg is playing clever but this game will be CLOSE..
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Hoejja is going to win! He is as tasteless would say "baller"
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"gollum w/ no legs crawling around hands asking units for money" LOL
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Never would have expected a newcomer to bring such an incredibly strong game.
And it's called a Ragnasaur Nick
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Hoejja's playing much better than Much, took out templar archives
Much deserves to lose this. He's playing like a noob.
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MAYBE GAME DECIDING DROP AT MUCHS EXPANSION
that might be the win..
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Wow Much is out of minerals. GG.
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gg
much loses 0:2
this zerg is really something to watch out for..
really really great gaming overall
gg's
disappointed by much, though
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Tasteless is seriously funny-_-
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And a Drone kills the Archon for the final blow.
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EPIC win Hoejja for life.
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wow i'm impressed by this zerg
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this zerg is just good
so precious play..
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hoejja dropped in his base and they didnt show it
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Wow, going to have to keep an eye on HoeJJa in the future
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On November 30 2008 17:39 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Hoejja
Kal
Backho
Jaedong
fuck yeah hoejja
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does anybody know how old hoejja is or how long hes been around?
nick and susie arent stressing enough how amazing some of his moves were
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On November 30 2008 18:55 Commander_Claw wrote:
Mind=Blown
That was Much.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Seriously, Tasteless commentary makes this worth staying up for. Though there's no way I can make it all the way to Jaedong's match, which makes me sad. I'll have to watch the VOD tomorrow.
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On November 30 2008 18:56 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
does anybody know how old hoejja is or how long hes been around?
Susie mentioned he was born in 1990 before the start of the match, so probably 18.
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sAw
965 Posts
Impressive... very nicely played by Hoejja. Hope he can do well, he's talented.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
goddamn, this kid
the first game i saw from this guy was back in 07 and he sucked (though notable because he plays lefthanded) but daaaaaaaaamn he played incredibly smart. very level-headed, very concise.
fuck that was some really high level zerg play
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51449 Posts
I meant the middle mined out.
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On November 30 2008 18:56 Jaksiel wrote:
Seriously, Tasteless commentary makes this worth staying up for. Though there's no way I can make it all the way to Jaedong's match, which makes me sad. I'll have to watch the VOD tomorrow.
STAY AWAKE Jaksiel! Take Excedrin!
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Finally a Zerg wins a non-mirror in the Ro32 :D HoeJJa played insanely well. Hope he keeps it up in the Ro16
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yeah without tasteless commentary, definitely would not stay up.
stab a nerd rofl
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Neo Requiem is such an awesome map.
Smart choice by the GomTV guys.
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Yeh Hoejjas fight starts next round, vs Bisu. Definetly needs something creative.
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Holy shit these commercials rock. Who's that crazy blonde Korean man?
Now there's some semi-hot kor girls which I can't get too excited about b/c they could be b/w 15-30.
WTF sad kor girl eating and doing drugs?
Paris hilton kor girl w/ mom talking now...
Looks like ripleys believe it or not is in kor too... or maybe unsolved mysteries.
Now Julyzerg is selling cars; very marketable zerg
Legit hot kor girl drinking...
Then some homo boy band dancing shirtless.
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Haha I just checked and this guy has Bisu in the next round.
edit: I was beaten to it
Still, undeniably an interesting draw.
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On November 30 2008 19:00 -_- wrote:
Holy shit these commercials rock. Who's that crazy blonde Korean man?
Now there's some semi-hot kor girls which I can't get too excited about b/c they could be b/w 15-30.
titty sambo?
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If he wins that, then that'll be a really big upset, but a good one.
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51449 Posts
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sAw
965 Posts
Many exciting games so far on Neo Requiem... Fuck yeah, more PvZ <3
Hoejja has to be your favourite upset, unless you like Much too much.
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One of these days those Korean Commercials will finally melt my brain
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can someone please give me a direct link to the stream which i can enter in the gom player? i am on a mac here and gomcmd is not supported in my browser blah blah :x thanks
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sAw
965 Posts
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Tosky is Calm's older brother wow
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On November 30 2008 19:08 sAw wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 19:07 zuqbu wrote:can someone please give me a direct link to the stream which i can enter in the gom player? i am on a mac here and gomcmd is not supported in my browser blah blah :x thanks http://www.gomtv.net/classics2/live/ -> just click VIEW LIVE
yes. thanks. this is not working. i run gomtv via emulation on a winex-like platform and gom of course has no browser plugins for firefox mac or safari.
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9070 Posts
Bisu will eat another zerg
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I'm rooting for tosky; older bro fighting!
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thanks a lot <3 gom crashes, but it works in vlc. thank you!
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sAw
965 Posts
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I had no idea ToSky and Calm were brothers. That makes another set of Z bros! ToSky's got pretty decent stats on that little statsheet.
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Jeez...so many upsets. Ridiculous.
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I don't think I've ever heard the phrase "shank a nerd" before in my life.
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I say "shank a nerd" every day
I do shank a nerd everyday
I work at Gamestop, come in anytime!
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On November 30 2008 19:15 Commander_Claw wrote:
I say "shank a nerd" every day
I do shank a nerd everyday
I work at Gamestop, come in anytime!
he's too busy in the army!
( not funny )
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On November 30 2008 19:16 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 19:15 Commander_Claw wrote:
I say "shank a nerd" every day
I do shank a nerd everyday
I work at Gamestop, come in anytime! he's too busy in the army! ( not funny )
I wholeheartedly apologize
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sAw
965 Posts
On November 30 2008 19:16 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 19:15 Commander_Claw wrote:
I say "shank a nerd" every day
I do shank a nerd everyday
I work at Gamestop, come in anytime! he's too busy in the army! ( not funny )
I actually loled, hah.
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Damn who is that guy? He's fucking hilarious
"Firebats kill things all the time." *nods
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51449 Posts
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On November 30 2008 19:16 Commander_Claw wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 19:16 -_- wrote:On November 30 2008 19:15 Commander_Claw wrote:
I say "shank a nerd" every day
I do shank a nerd everyday
I work at Gamestop, come in anytime! he's too busy in the army! ( not funny ) I wholeheartedly apologize
I mean I'm not funny... or are you being sarcastic and making fun of me :/
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who is the firebat guy?
he does SUCK
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On November 30 2008 19:17 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 19:16 Commander_Claw wrote:On November 30 2008 19:16 -_- wrote:On November 30 2008 19:15 Commander_Claw wrote:
I say "shank a nerd" every day
I do shank a nerd everyday
I work at Gamestop, come in anytime! he's too busy in the army! ( not funny ) I wholeheartedly apologize I mean I'm not funny... or are you being sarcastic and making fun of me :/
I am being absolutely honest. If I have offended you in any way, I am sorry.
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the sign that guy was holding sounds stupid but the way he looked is hilarious
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Wow. ToSky just threw away an Overlord for no reason.
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Yes gogo Kal
Big head shape FIGHTING!!!!!!!
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Tosky looking to get a ling runby
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On November 30 2008 19:18 Commander_Claw wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 19:17 -_- wrote:On November 30 2008 19:16 Commander_Claw wrote:On November 30 2008 19:16 -_- wrote:On November 30 2008 19:15 Commander_Claw wrote:
I say "shank a nerd" every day
I do shank a nerd everyday
I work at Gamestop, come in anytime! he's too busy in the army! ( not funny ) I wholeheartedly apologize I mean I'm not funny... or are you being sarcastic and making fun of me :/ I am being absolutely honest. If I have offended you in any way, I am sorry.
AKA on these forums?
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1 base tech by tosky? wtf
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sAw
965 Posts
How the fuck can you make such a retared mistake.. (over dies to cannon)
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Maybe 1 hatch lurker drop on the way?
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I can't figure out what ToSky is trying to do here.
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On November 30 2008 19:21 Jaksiel wrote:
I can't figure out what ToSky is trying to do here.
Whatever it is, I can't see it succeeding. It's not going to end well
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LURK MOAR!!! EVERYWHERE OLD BRO FIGHTING but alot of drones lost
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that one over extended himself "pce out lurker"
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On November 30 2008 19:20 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 19:18 Commander_Claw wrote:On November 30 2008 19:17 -_- wrote:On November 30 2008 19:16 Commander_Claw wrote:On November 30 2008 19:16 -_- wrote:On November 30 2008 19:15 Commander_Claw wrote:
I say "shank a nerd" every day
I do shank a nerd everyday
I work at Gamestop, come in anytime! he's too busy in the army! ( not funny ) I wholeheartedly apologize I mean I'm not funny... or are you being sarcastic and making fun of me :/ I am being absolutely honest. If I have offended you in any way, I am sorry. AKA on these forums?
Yeah, i'm new to starcraft really. Only started practicing with my friends earlier this year. I have an Iccup account, but I don't want to go in as a total noob
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Damn. Kal just needs to pump zeals and he's got this.
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omg all you tosky haters peep the strat, it workd
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GG Tosky, couldn't do enough damage
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United States10774 Posts
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On November 30 2008 19:25 mrscheng wrote:
omg all you tosky haters peep the strat, it workd
it wouldve worked if he hadnt sucked
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What strat? Kal's gates were untouched and Tosky got rolled fucking hard. He didn't make a lurker in his main.
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On November 30 2008 19:25 mrscheng wrote:
omg all you tosky haters peep the strat, it workd
lol until he lost
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well, "worked" mightv been an overexaggeration :$
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Hmmmph...interesting.
Quick games!
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On November 30 2008 19:25 mrscheng wrote:
omg all you tosky haters peep the strat, it workd
Depends on your definition of "worked", I suppose...
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big head fighting game 2 ftwwwww
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I feel like I'm not allowed to say this, b/c lilsusies forum affiliation makes her like a sister, but she is rather hot.
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Well Tosky failed a bit. 2-0 is my guess.
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On November 30 2008 19:28 -_- wrote:
I feel like I'm not allowed to say this, b/c lilsusies forum affiliation makes her like a sister, but she is rather hot.
thats ok, shes like a hot adopted cousin
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Lol
Playing SC gives her +10 points
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Tosky will be lucky to end it in 2-0. Kal's going to make him run back to Lecaf crying
Wtf. 1-base 2hatch tech for Tosky? This guy needs to read up on decent zerg strats.
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On November 30 2008 19:29 mrscheng wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 19:28 -_- wrote:
I feel like I'm not allowed to say this, b/c lilsusies forum affiliation makes her like a sister, but she is rather hot. thats ok, shes like a hot adopted cousin
baller. I bang them all the time!
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On November 30 2008 19:31 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 19:29 mrscheng wrote:On November 30 2008 19:28 -_- wrote:
I feel like I'm not allowed to say this, b/c lilsusies forum affiliation makes her like a sister, but she is rather hot. thats ok, shes like a hot adopted cousin baller. I bang them all the time!
yes that is very standard
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seems like tosky makes it a point to lose random units early on in every single one of his games
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Almost got 2 drones--this guy not gosu
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On November 30 2008 19:32 mrscheng wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 19:31 -_- wrote:On November 30 2008 19:29 mrscheng wrote:On November 30 2008 19:28 -_- wrote:
I feel like I'm not allowed to say this, b/c lilsusies forum affiliation makes her like a sister, but she is rather hot. thats ok, shes like a hot adopted cousin baller. I bang them all the time! yes that is very standard
as std as 1 fac cc tvp!
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wtf tasteless lol he sounds totally out of it this game
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GOGOGOGOGOGOGO ALL IN!!!!!!!!
JAMIE GOLDDDddddd
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Why is Tosky mining from nat with a drone when there's no hat there, and he's not putting a hat down? This guy's doing an ALLIN WITH DRONES AND LINGS? AND IT FUCKING ALMOST WORKED?
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2-0
He's got 5 drones mining. No point in watching any more.
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United States10774 Posts
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looking forward to jaedong and some real zerg ownage
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Jaedong clearly didn't get good ZvZ from this dude.
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That match was terrible. Now I have to stay awake for Jaedong just to wash the taste of bad Zerg out of my mouth.
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On November 30 2008 19:35 OneOther wrote:
tosky fucking sucks
On November 30 2008 19:36 Klive5ive wrote:
FAILURE
Tosky sucks
this
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Thanks to Tosky I've just watched the shittiest ZvP in a while.
2-0 Kal > Tosky
Just when I was having faith in newcomer zergs.
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9070 Posts
On November 30 2008 19:35 OneOther wrote:
tosky fucking sucks
I hate this guy because he denied nal_ra for some tournament a couple of seasons ago...never mind
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sAw
965 Posts
change ur name to "tofail"
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I don't think he's that awful. It could have worked with just a few more lings. The first game was a total blunder, but the second game could have been won.
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On November 30 2008 19:38 sAw wrote:
change ur name to "tofail"
or ToSuCks
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On November 30 2008 19:38 jahre wrote:
I don't think he's that awful. It could have worked with just a few more lings. The first game was a total blunder, but the second game could have been won.
The thing is, he doesn't know the meaning of a real game. He cheesed both games and Kal picked up on this, doing 2 gate instead of FE and eventually owned him. If he played standard first game and went all-in on the second, it might have worked.
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iccup is resetting
Have you heard iccup is resetting?
YES I HAVE TASTELESS
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baller blonde korean in the zone!
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9070 Posts
coming up next a match between a terran player from my favorite team vs a gay chump from the team which I hate the most...who should I root for?
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sAw
965 Posts
On November 30 2008 19:40 traced wrote:
reminded me of kwanro
seconded
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Man wtf is up with BackHo's head, he reminds me of Spock. ^^
Go Midas.
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mine still works, try reconnecting
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
And my guess was right.
No clue if BackHo will fail or succeed at failing tho.
That's the only question for that match.
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United States11390 Posts
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United States10774 Posts
On November 30 2008 19:42 sAw wrote:seconded
lol at least kwanro does them right
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On November 30 2008 19:40 Xstatic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 19:38 jahre wrote:
I don't think he's that awful. It could have worked with just a few more lings. The first game was a total blunder, but the second game could have been won. The thing is, he doesn't know the meaning of a real game. He cheesed both games and Kal picked up on this, doing 2 gate instead of FE and eventually owned him. If he played standard first game and went all-in on the second, it might have worked.
I strongly disagree. he used his brains to come up with good strategies both games. that you call that he doesnt know the meaning of a real game.. well its the complete opposite. guys who do the same strategy every single game don't know the meaning of a real game, because there is much more out there to throw at your opponent besides just the same crap every time. Trying to out-think your opponent shouldn't be called cheese at all. Unless cheese is meant as a compliment but I doubt that.
he just sucked hard thats all
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Oh god, BackHo slowly reverting back to that ugly ass bowl hair.
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Please please please no more 2nd rate Protoss in the round of 16.
GO Midas.
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btw those stats for stardom etc are so gay...
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ofc he cheese proxy omg i hate him so much
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Backho with his fail zealots
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wow this cheese hasnt gone so well
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midas loosing a lot of scvs :O
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YES BACKHO U R OUT OF GOMTV
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Fuck backho fuck destination die in a fire.
Since when did 7 pylon 7 gate become a legitimate build. -_______--
At least that rush fell on its face
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BackHo doesn't like attacking with his Zealots, apparently.
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That's some... interesting zealot micro.
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haha, the commentary is awesome
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I like how tasteless keeps thinking that Midas is behind.
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On November 30 2008 20:04 Plutonium wrote:
I like how tasteless keeps thinking that Midas is behind.
does he though?
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it is tough to be a backho fan these days...
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On November 30 2008 20:06 Zinbiel wrote:
it is tough to be a backho fan these days...
lolll didnt know u existed!
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wow that was a smart vulture trick
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lol?? battle of the afkers?
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haha backho has a dragoon in the shuttle and does not use it against the wraith until it's too late :O zomg
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shitload of idle workers midas
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Pretty sure he's being killed on purpose now.
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that was the failest counter attack I ever seen, backho
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Midas is raping the shit out of BackHo here
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P.s.: Midas killed the Ursadon because it blocked the way of his vultures on the bridge. The camera shot there just after it was finished and the vults were on their way back.
I'm 95.5% positive on that
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
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both players are so bad atm T_T
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My god Midas has suuuuuuuch a slow reaction time for a progamer.
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On November 30 2008 20:17 Naib wrote:Midas is raping the shit out of BackHo here
No, he raped his army and then did nothing at all, what's up with that :|
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sAw
965 Posts
On November 30 2008 20:17 Naib wrote:P.s.: Midas killed the Ursadon because it blocked the way of his vultures on the bridge. The camera shot there just after it was finished and the vults were on their way back. I'm 95.5% positive on that
THAT BASTARD!!He's gonna lose then fo sho.
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United States10774 Posts
this game is awful
excessively passive t vs .....backho
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Midas is just throwing this away - he's not doing anything about the two left bases.
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On November 30 2008 20:06 Zinbiel wrote:
it is tough to be a backho fan these days...
Well, you can pretend that Lecaf has no tosses, kind of like T1 fans pretend they don't own any zergs. 
Honestly though. For Backho to be winning after such continous fail... really shows how bad Midas is playing right now.
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
passive T is so fucking ughkjadgsgksdkfj GO ALREADY
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BACKHO BACK IN BUSINESS! that 1 tank stasis wasn't very pretty though.
Edit: Baubo, I could but that wouldn't be smart since backho is one of my reasons for being a lecaf fan -.- His games are always entertaining at least
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midas just threw away his edge it's over
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awful awful play from midas really, it looks like he has 100 APM or something
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if you kill ursadon = you lose
midas... why........
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On November 30 2008 20:20 humblegar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 20:17 Naib wrote:Midas is raping the shit out of BackHo here No, he raped his army and then did nothing at all, what's up with that :|
Yeah, raping shit and not capitalizing like its the coolest thing ever.
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On November 30 2008 20:21 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 20:06 Zinbiel wrote:
it is tough to be a backho fan these days... Well, you can pretend that Lecaf has no tosses, kind of like T1 fans pretend they don't own any zergs. Honestly though. For Backho to be winning after such continous fail... really shows how bad Midas is playing right now.
WE HAVE S2
Hopefully we won't have to disown him after today.
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Bah wtf was that Midas =\
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ok, I think BackHo has plans of being the next rock, minus the 2 base carriers.
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JUST GG OMG SO SLOOOOOOOOOOOW
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... wow midas just got rolled over
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fuck midas
how to lose a won game
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damn, way to throw a won game midas.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
terrible play by midas, jesus
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I don't get why he didn't expand to the corner either, he had full map control. If you don't push out after raping the opposing army, at least expand (not to mention 2 factories weren't even rallied out and at a certain time there were 10 idle vults there).
I don't know, despite some really clutch moments (mostly EMP), Midas became really, really sloppy.
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....ok, BackHo doing bad and Midas choking, I guess it was the battle of who paid the best least attention to the game.
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Yay Backho. =)
Not really the best play ever by both players, though, I don't think.
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Ffs Midas what were you thinking ...
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Hmm, yeah, that was just awful play. Regardless of his decision to push, he never secured his expansions, and he didn't really harass. He had the game won, and unfortunately, threw it away.
Oh well.
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sAw
965 Posts
What a terrible game... This isn't Midas.
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with stork waiting for them in next round either of them is screwed anyway
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On November 30 2008 20:21 Zinbiel wrote:BACKHO BACK IN BUSINESS! that 1 tank stasis wasn't very pretty though. Edit: Baubo, I could but that wouldn't be smart since backho is one of my reasons for being a lecaf fan -.- His games are always entertaining at least
Wow, in that case I feel for you.
Hey! At least Midas sucking even more right now. I guess in a way bad games are more fun to watch than good games.
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sAw
965 Posts
THE CURSE OF PANDABEAR GUY CONTINUES
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hahahaha Midas warming up his "1a2a3a4a5a6a7a" numerous times at the game countdown.
Here comes tornado terran style 
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I want a third game, no more shitty play from Midas.
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toss 2 more bases, i have 50 more suply hmm what shall i do. nothing? yeh
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And Backho with more cheese.
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I am drinking a couple Bacchus right now because its so late. Haha.
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA 
- So you might wonder, do zealots go to heaven when they die?
Sorry kids! Only the zealots who've accepted Jesus Christ!
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On November 30 2008 20:30 GinNtoniC wrote:hahahaha Midas warming up his "1a2a3a4a5a6a7a" numerous times at the game countdown. Here comes tornado terran style
w00t!
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oh yeah, backho schooling midas!
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United States17042 Posts
midas tries to expand with like 1 tank- gets his ramp broken pretty easily. The scv's are trying to take out the goons, but midias's econ isn't going to work very well.
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United States17042 Posts
midias is in huge drouble. Backho already has his expo up, and another tank gets taken down for midas. It's over.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
more awful play by midas -_-
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sigh... midas is not good in november either
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United States17042 Posts
reaver tech already finished for backho, midas is basically stuck in his base.
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sAw
965 Posts
Every player I've cheered for today has lost, but it's kinda ok since Hoejja played amazingly, tosky was a fail, so who cares about him, and Midas is clearly doing drugs... Even if he got through, he'd have to face Stork.. And we all know how that one would go.
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Seriously, is this real Midas playing~~?
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wow
midas getting desperate
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i cant believe midas has become so bad
used to be a tvp god
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United States17042 Posts
even if midas managed to take out that reaver, i don't think he would have been easly able to breka out.
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United States17042 Posts
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Midas really had that first game in the bag, but he didn't use that dropship to any effect.
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Everyone has some bad days. He's just in a slump at the moment.
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9070 Posts
lol susie, how is backho good looking :D
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lol
the exit is behind you, backho
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at least we get to see Jaedong now..
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On November 30 2008 20:42 jahre wrote:
Everyone has some bad days. He's just in a slump at the moment.
midas has been playing this poorly for like a year and a half
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Wow jesus how I hate FailHo...
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exactly, bakcho is ugly as FK thats why i hate him
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United States17042 Posts
On November 30 2008 20:43 village_idiot wrote:
lol
the exit is behind you, backho
It's okay *grumbles* backho can never figure out where the exit is when it's his time to exit. >.> (I'm not a fan, he keeps knocking out people I like)
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9070 Posts
On November 30 2008 20:43 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 20:42 jahre wrote:
Everyone has some bad days. He's just in a slump at the moment. midas has been playing this poorly for like a year and a half
Midas did fine last PL season and that was just a couple of months ago
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Oh well, let's put all that rubbish behind us.... It's JD time!
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They should put susie in the commercials, shes better looking than these fools! especially that blond guy.
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sAw
965 Posts
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United States17042 Posts
Jaedong vs tempest- the match of the evening. I'm excited.
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On November 30 2008 17:39 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Hoejja
Kal
Backho
Jaedong
3/3 thus far, come on JD!
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On November 30 2008 20:43 sushiman wrote:
backho <3
this.
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9070 Posts
this
![[image loading]](http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/InSenG/jaedonggay.jpg)
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who was that chikc that got kissed que!??!
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
to watch or not to watch...
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On November 30 2008 20:51 disciple wrote:this
except that he's anytimes bitch, not jaedongs^^
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
LOL WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT SONG
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sAw
965 Posts
On November 30 2008 20:52 thedeadhaji wrote:
to watch or not to watch...
TO WATCH DOH
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cmon jaedong, show me something good
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Jaedong is going to show him why I chose him for my proleague fantasy team.
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All right Jaedong, crush this guy.
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Bah! his stats weren't almost maxed when FBH made him his bitch a week ago
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What's the 8 in Jaedongs stats?
btw the stream is really breaking up today.
Edit
Macro
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nvm
jaedong has 8 for macro
everything else 9-10
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Attack
Defence
Agility (APM)
Micro
Macro
Metagame sense
Concentration
Reading opponents mind
Star-power
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IF tempest gets his unitcontrol decent an his micro okey we might see a cool series
unless so.. well T_T
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8 was his macro if I'm not mistaken.
Edit: Yes, thanks to the guy above for confirmation.
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United States17042 Posts
tempest is currently 2-2 v z
winning against lux and oversky, losing against july and odin
destination, july at 6, tempest at 12
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sAw
965 Posts
"Jaedong will show us how a zerg player in the protoss era can survive"
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United States17042 Posts
casy is a good tvz player, what can we say. he wasn't called neo boxer for a reason.
standard builds from both players- looks like a 12 hat from jaedong, 14 nex from tempest probably
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the song they play when they come back from the commercials. whats its name??
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United States17042 Posts
jaedong lays down that third hat at about 8, forge and gateway from tempest
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Uh-oh, a macro game? The stats said Tempest is a 9.5 and Jaedong is only an 8!
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Jaedong already comfortably ahead.
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United States17042 Posts
jaedong manages to get like 3 probes with his first 12 lings, this is a really really standard game. fourth hatch goes down as the hydra den finishes
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United States17042 Posts
the first sair is still scouting, 2 evo chambers out for jaedong. Looks like jaedong is going for super late game. Jaedone manages to scout all of the tech, sets up a contain of tempest.
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United States17042 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:04 Jaksiel wrote:
Uh-oh, a macro game? The stats said Tempest is a 9.5 and Jaedong is only an 8!
Stats...don't matter that much when they're actually playing ><;;
although I figure you're kidding anyway >.>
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Jaedong's macro rated at 8?? lol, dumbest rating ever
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wtf where are your units jaedong
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WHAT JUST HAPPENED JAEDONG
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On November 30 2008 21:09 (paladin)roMAD wrote:
Jaedong's macro rated at 8?? lol, dumbest rating ever
... or was it : O
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United States17042 Posts
tempest is going to try to attack jaedong's third, instead moves into jaedong's main, gets the spawning pool, gets thec spire, the drones are moving back into the main, 2 lurkers pulled from jaedong's third into jaedong's nat, 2 lurkers are killing off the lurkers. jaedong's drone count is really low, but he manages to fend it off.
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Let no one say again that KTF Protosses are terrible.
On November 30 2008 21:10 ShloobeR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 21:09 (paladin)roMAD wrote:
Jaedong's macro rated at 8?? lol, dumbest rating ever ... or was it : O
They rated his micro a perfect 10 and that was what really let him down this game.
Though really, JD probably does have the best micro I've ever seen normally.
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they got sucked by the motherships blackhole
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United States17042 Posts
that was an awsome timing attack by tempest- he managed to hit jaedong right before he could start powering hydra, and it showed by how few jaedong had.
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jaedong reached his suppy limit for a little, maybe that threw him off.
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tempest has beaten july, luxury, and only one+ games away from beating jaedong
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United States17042 Posts
jaedong still dosen't have a pool, whihc forces him to go hydra lurker.
jaedong needs more lurkers, and tempest is literally ignoring the lurkers- with no obs
jaedong gg's
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Jaedong you better not lose this match.
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9070 Posts
another one tempest ! pls make my day
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nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! This aint right
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this tourney's gonna suck if jaedong gets eliminated today :/
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-______________________________________-;;
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God, stream always gets overloaded when there's an anticipated match on. >>
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United States17042 Posts
This is proving to be the tourny of the upsets. jaedong better focus if he wants to stay
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sAw
965 Posts
OH COME ON
Will anyone of my guys actually win today? This is very sad.
Come on Jaedong, you're better than that. Good play by Tempest however...
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If he loses here i think he will fail everywhere
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United States17042 Posts
neo requium up next-
jaedong at 12, tempest at 9
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I have a bad feeling about this
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Stats are wrong all over 90 has lost!
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
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United States17042 Posts
92% jaedong, 8% tempest,
jaedong better help his fans xD
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United States17042 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:17 Kentor wrote:
is that a mini optical
I believe that jaedong plays with a logitech mini optical
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is jaedong turning into a 1 trick pony zvz superman? :S
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United States17042 Posts
9/10 gate from tempest, i jaedong 12 pools I believe?
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I am left handed too!
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Jaedong has NOT been playing up to par lately except for ZvZ. This really isn't something new. Hopefully he can come back.
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United States17042 Posts
4 zeals move out for tempest, jaedong starts his sunken next to his main. 5 zeals sitting on jaedong's ramp
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United States17042 Posts
tempest is in trouble- jaedong looks like he's going for the ramp bust, core finally goes up for tempest.
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United States17042 Posts
third hatch goes down for jaedong, as well as hydra den, tempest lays down a stargate
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think tempest takes this too, jaedong had to cut drones like hell
edit: or maybe I'm the worst in the world at predicting sc.
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United States17042 Posts
lair tech starts for jaedong, his third hat still hasn't finished. jaedong manages to sneak in about 2 cnotrol groups of lings into tempest's main, tempest moves into jaedong's main, and is trying to kill the den.
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United States17042 Posts
1 sair out now to scout, spire going up for jaedong, jadeong holds, tempest dosen't have a gateway anymore.
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did jaedong just turn into july?
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This game is 95% Jaedongs
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United States17042 Posts
jaedong has lost like 5 ovies already, the single hydra has like 2 sair kills.
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United States17042 Posts
I think that they're probably actually about even by now- tempest is going sair reaver, jaedong is putting up his third base hatch right now.
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"Get out of my face Zergling" made me laugh.
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United States17042 Posts
expansion nexus goes up for tempest, the real questiion is if he can hold it
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Jaedong says "10 for micro, bitches".
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u gotta skate8152 Posts
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2 reavers down DAMN good play
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United States17042 Posts
jaedongs micro is showing through, tempest's first 2 reavers+ shuttle+ like 4 goons were sniped by muta
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United States17042 Posts
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GG From tempest, jaedong wins with mutas.
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Any game that looks like ZvZ, JD rules.
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How have JD been doing on medusa?
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EE JEDONG HWIGHTING
plz win
too many toss in final 16
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absolutely incredible play, sniping that pylon, but then pulling back to completely crush those zealots encroaching on his base
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since suzy dont wach this thread today:
she has nice breasts imo...
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whats the name of the song they play after the commercials, when they introduce the players etc.. where in the first sentence he does that falsett thing? :O its good
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Dam, this is so tense now.
JD needs to up his ZvP if he's going to win this tournament.
It's very possible he will face nothing but Protoss players all the way to the title.
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u gotta skate8152 Posts
That song kicks ass hahah!
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sAw
965 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:31 Klive5ive wrote:
Dam, this is so tense now.
JD needs to up his TvP if he's going to win this tournament.
It's very possible he will face nothing but Protoss players all the way to the title.
I mean yeah... needs to work on his marine control xD
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On November 30 2008 21:31 Klive5ive wrote:
Dam, this is so tense now.
JD needs to up his TvP if he's going to win this tournament.
It's very possible he will face nothing but Protoss players all the way to the title.
jaedongs tvp is awesome dude!!
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On November 30 2008 21:32 sAw wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 21:31 Klive5ive wrote:
Dam, this is so tense now.
JD needs to up his TvP if he's going to win this tournament.
It's very possible he will face nothing but Protoss players all the way to the title. I mean yeah... needs to work on his marine control xD
who uses marines vs p :D
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On November 30 2008 21:31 mrscheng wrote:
since suzy dont wach this thread today:
she has nice breasts imo...
...
she might read it after work
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United States17042 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:33 AnOth3rDAy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 21:31 Klive5ive wrote:
Dam, this is so tense now.
JD needs to up his TvP if he's going to win this tournament.
It's very possible he will face nothing but Protoss players all the way to the title. jaedongs tvp is awesome dude!!
Nada's PvT is awsome.
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On November 30 2008 21:30 Lobbo wrote:
How have JD been doing on medusa?
Well, JD took one set from free...
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On November 30 2008 21:31 mrscheng wrote:since suzy dont wach this thread today: + Show Spoiler +
she has nice breasts imo...
fixed
someone edit the OP NAO (With a big "Suzie don't read this thread)! Haha.
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The Killers - Somebody Told Me
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sAw
965 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:33 Camlito wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 21:32 sAw wrote:On November 30 2008 21:31 Klive5ive wrote:
Dam, this is so tense now.
JD needs to up his TvP if he's going to win this tournament.
It's very possible he will face nothing but Protoss players all the way to the title. I mean yeah... needs to work on his marine control xD who uses marines vs p :D
nobody, that was just random trashtalk
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United States17042 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:32 KizZBG wrote:
That song kicks ass hahah!
I love that song by the killers- i was so suprised when it came on.
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all these things that i've done is my favorite killers song. haven't heard the new album tho
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United States17042 Posts
medusa, tempest in the upper left, jaedong on the upper right
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I gotta say I'm not a huge fan of most of the music on GOM or any of these starcraft shows.
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United States17042 Posts
jaednog has his savior face on, but he looks pretty tired.
I think that jaedong is gonna be just fine xD
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Jaedong needs to turn his maphack on.
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United States17042 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:37 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
I gotta say I'm not a huge fan of most of the music on GOM or any of these starcraft shows.
I think that it's pretty cool that they use so much american music. it's nice to hear something that I recognize a lot of the songs, even when I can't understand the korean
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United States17042 Posts
and now jaedong is behind, afater tempest amanges to take out a drone with a probe.
1 cannon after forge+gate for tempest
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United States17042 Posts
fourth hatch goes down for jaedong right next to his main hatch
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United States17042 Posts
jaedong starts his lair tech, along with starting his hydra den
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United States17042 Posts
second scouting probe is prevented from doing anything by lings, 2 scouting zeals wantering around the map.
it's going to be sair dt from tempest, no robo bay yet
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United States17042 Posts
four more gates thrown down for tempest, 1 sair out for tempest as well. jaedong has about a control of lings and 2 hydra right now
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United States17042 Posts
fifth hatch going down for jaedong at 5, 1 sair still scouting for tempest.
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jaedong was below supply for around 30 seconds...
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United States17042 Posts
tempest pushes out right after speed finishes for teh zeals, jaedong has 1 sunken, and all of his units are looking for the flank at the fifth. this is gonna be close
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United States17042 Posts
alright, so tempest pushes in, gets the spire, but nothing else- loses his first two archons,
a second evo chamber goes up, and jaedon'gs fourth bsae isn'isn't attacked. jaedong looks like he's going to be just fine.
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Comeon JD, forget the spire just go all out hydra/lurker and win.
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u gotta skate8152 Posts
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
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JAEDONG (((((((((((((((
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I can't believe Jaedong is losing this one. This is not happening.
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United States17042 Posts
jaeodng is out of drones, has about 8 hydra left vs about an archon and about 4 zeals
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So where will Jaedong be placed next PR?
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United States17042 Posts
greedy play with the fifth hatch by haedong, and he actually has 6 hatches. Jaedong is going to be forced to gg
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United States17042 Posts
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Watching those two temps die under the storm is the only good thing about this game :-(
Daaammmnn JD!
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WHY JAEDONG U SCOUTED IT WHAT THE FUCK
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So, I'm still relatively a SC pro scene noob...why did Jaedong never make any mutas?
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bwah
same push kills him again!
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I can't believe it, tempest is so bad and yet he defeats JD.
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Russian Federation1381 Posts
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lol @ tasteless calling FBH sending another top zerg into a slump
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i really don't get that mass hydra trend
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Hahahahahahah tasteless going crazy =p
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The next argument for Jaedong fanboys: "Well the GSL doesn't matter anyway."
Great job, Tempest!
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Who needs 1a2a3a? Rally is enough.
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This tournament just became much less interesting.
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United States17042 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:48 Jaksiel wrote:
So, I'm still relatively a SC pro scene noob...why did Jaedong never make any mutas?
his spire ended up getting killed, and he couldn't make any muta, becuase the hydra pop faster than the muta do. Jaedong needed fighting units as fast as possible, so hydra are faster than muta.
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OMG JAEDONG WHY? Are u NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOB?
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No its not "the killers" im referring to.. dang
JD omg, there goes your PR TT
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Tempest's attack timing is perfect, how the hell you think that he is so bad? He perfectly charged
in before jaedong could produce over 9000 hydras and lurkers with his 6-7 hatcheries.
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9070 Posts
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"He has some big shoes to fill, AND THEY FIT, I checked the toes in those gosu shoes"
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sAw
965 Posts
WTF.. seriously... I'm so shocked right now...
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he lost like my zvp
my masshydra gets overrun by speedzeal temp
TT
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hmmm
seems there are too many Protoss players left now
=\
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See? Stats do matter, 9.5 macro > 8 macro.
Jaedong should've either gone for 4 base sunken/lurker or 3 base hydras. 4 bases was a little too greedy and he paid for it twice.
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On November 30 2008 21:49 Jaksiel wrote:
This tournament just became much less interesting.
are you crazy
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3rd game jae played soooooooo bad ? wtf was this ? he saw that tempest is mass zealot and he continue making hydras ? wtf ?
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United States17042 Posts
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what.... the... FUCK just happend? oh my god!
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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Without the spire, it is just so difficult to beat a streamline of teched up zealots.
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United States17042 Posts
"the overmind is not happy, he just texted me on my cellphone"
nice one tasteless
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Valhalla18444 Posts
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Tempest=Best PvZ right now?
He 2-0d july last season in the offline qualifiers out of the MSL. And he kicked out Lux from MSL too. The kid has sick PvZ.
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jaedong nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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On November 30 2008 21:50 Itachii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 21:49 Jaksiel wrote:
This tournament just became much less interesting. are you crazy
To me. I'm a Jaedong fan and a Zerg fan. Jaedong lost and there are, what, 2 Zergs left in the tournament?
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No Bisu vs Jaedong :-((((((((((((((((
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Jaedong's "Let me take that extra 4th base" is the new 14cc.
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United States17042 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:50 Itachii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 21:49 Jaksiel wrote:
This tournament just became much less interesting. are you crazy
Lots of people like having a bonjwa.
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On November 30 2008 21:48 Jaksiel wrote:
So, I'm still relatively a SC pro scene noob...why did Jaedong never make any mutas?
Muta is a bad idea vs mass speed zlots, at least not without some static defense. At least have the muta complement some lings. The reason being is that the toss can just spread their zealots to each of your expansions, and the muta won't be able to defend it all at once.
For this game specifically, Jaedong might have been planning a mid-game muta switch, but keep in mind his spire got sniped.
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On November 30 2008 21:49 Jaksiel wrote:
This tournament just became much less interesting.
This tournament was like 'Yeah yeah, Jaedong is going to win." And now it no longer is.
Is that less interesting to you? Sure, too few zergs.
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I don't understand what's stoping him from making like 2 lurkers...? I didn't see a robo
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The song
this song, what is the name? anyone know?
After the short playerintro.
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Tossfest... JD... we needed you so bad :-(
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On November 30 2008 21:50 Hyperionnn wrote:
Tempest's attack timing is perfect, how the hell you think that he is so bad? He perfectly charged
in before jaedong could produce over 9000 hydras and lurkers with his 6-7 hatcheries.
IMO, that was a standard +1/leg upgrade zealot rush. Jd was being too greedy with 4 base build, so he didn't have enough troops to defend
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
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EFFORT YOU BETTER KICK BEST ASS NEXT WEEK FOR THE OVERMIND
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fuck this all toss
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On November 30 2008 21:52 Zidane wrote:
I don't understand what's stoping him from making like 2 lurkers...? I didn't see a robo
He was going hydra muta
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9070 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:51 VioleTAK wrote:
No Bisu vs Jaedong :-((((((((((((((((
I wouldnt regret about that , JD is so out of his game, a match vs bisu atm would be a disaster for him
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TEMPEST, THEPEST WOOOO
Fuck yeah, KTF hwaiting in gom
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It was good timing on Tempest's side, he went right when Jaedong was transitioning. He timed the Legs,+1, and Storm with his archon pretty well.
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jaedong was way too fucking cocky - 1 sunk?!?
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On November 30 2008 21:52 Blind wrote:
Muta is a bad idea vs mass speed zlots, at least not without some static defense.
It's not. It depends on timing and how much both sacrifice to get their timing. Lurkers are better to defend with. But if you want to attack mutas are better. Not to mention if you can snipe all their templar while dodging storms.
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United States17042 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:53 (paladin)roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 21:50 Hyperionnn wrote:
Tempest's attack timing is perfect, how the hell you think that he is so bad? He perfectly charged
in before jaedong could produce over 9000 hydras and lurkers with his 6-7 hatcheries. IMO, that was a standard +1/leg upgrade zealot rush. Jd was being too greedy with 4 base build, so he didn't have enough troops to defend
The slower version I guess- he did have the sair out, so it's not "exactly" the +1/speed rush.
close though- and it ended up hitting the right timing window because of the 4 base 5 hat decision by jaedong
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3/4 on my liquibet.
Much failed me
Grandpa Toss, what has happened?
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Hard times to be a JD fan. His decision making has been awefully bad for weeks. He is constantly overextending himself in midgame or is just basically doing nothing in late game after having an early lead (i.e. vs Kal in PL). His mechanics ar still absolutely top notch, but in a way he has lost his game sense. I cannot see him make it through the OSL preliminaries if he cannot pick his game up. If there is another MSL/OSL season full of Terrans and Protoss ahead, I have to punch someone.
Zerg needs you JD
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On November 30 2008 21:49 pandabearguy wrote:
lol @ tasteless calling FBH sending another top zerg into a slump
cool, its the pandabearguy..haha
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Russian Federation1381 Posts
"This tournament just became much less interesting."
Exactly. F**k.....
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On November 30 2008 21:54 GHOSTCLAW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 21:53 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On November 30 2008 21:50 Hyperionnn wrote:
Tempest's attack timing is perfect, how the hell you think that he is so bad? He perfectly charged
in before jaedong could produce over 9000 hydras and lurkers with his 6-7 hatcheries. IMO, that was a standard +1/leg upgrade zealot rush. Jd was being too greedy with 4 base build, so he didn't have enough troops to defend The slower version I guess- he did have the sair out, so it's not "exactly" the +1/speed rush. close though- and it ended up hitting the right timing window because of the 4 base 5 hat decision by jaedong
Still, i would say it was more JD's fault than Tempest's impressive move
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RO16
10 - Protoss
4 - Terran
2 - Zerg
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United States17042 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:54 BlackStar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 21:52 Blind wrote:
Muta is a bad idea vs mass speed zlots, at least not without some static defense. It's not. It depends on timing and how much both sacrifice to get their timing. Lurkers are better to defend with. But if you want to attack mutas are better. Not to mention if you can snipe all their templar while dodging storms.
Just for future reference, lurkers tend to be more of a static defense tool, while muta tend to be more agressive and allow for more mobility. In ZvT, you go lurkers if you have lower econ, because you can defend easier with them, but you can harass in a macro game and keep more map control with muta.
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jaedong would have been able to hold off both attacks if he just had one more sunken. HUBRIS FUCKING HUBRIS MOTHERFUCKER
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On November 30 2008 21:55 Malinor wrote:Hard times to be a JD fan. His decision making has been awefully bad for weeks. He is constantly overextending himself in midgame or is just basically doing nothing in late game after having an early lead (i.e. vs Kal in PL). His mechanics ar still absolutely top notch, but in a way he has lost his game sense. I cannot see him make it through the OSL preliminaries if he cannot pick his game up. If there is another MSL/OSL season full of Terrans and Protoss ahead, I have to punch someone. Zerg needs you JD
Zerg needs SAVIORRRRR! ok ?
Thank you !
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This is going to be another ClubDay MSL. Time to root for FlaSh. (unless he plays Jangbi lol)
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United States17042 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:57 Highways wrote:
RO16
10 - Protoss
4 - Terran
2 - Zerg
Legend of the fall ><;;
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United States17042 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:56 (paladin)roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 21:54 GHOSTCLAW wrote:On November 30 2008 21:53 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On November 30 2008 21:50 Hyperionnn wrote:
Tempest's attack timing is perfect, how the hell you think that he is so bad? He perfectly charged
in before jaedong could produce over 9000 hydras and lurkers with his 6-7 hatcheries. IMO, that was a standard +1/leg upgrade zealot rush. Jd was being too greedy with 4 base build, so he didn't have enough troops to defend The slower version I guess- he did have the sair out, so it's not "exactly" the +1/speed rush. close though- and it ended up hitting the right timing window because of the 4 base 5 hat decision by jaedong Still, i would say it was more JD's fault than Tempest's impressive move
I agree - It was standard play by tempest, and JD had bad decision making
><;; it happens.
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United States17042 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:55 Infinity.SkyLark wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 21:49 pandabearguy wrote:
lol @ tasteless calling FBH sending another top zerg into a slump cool, its the pandabearguy..haha
He just reg'd too. I already like him xD
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On November 30 2008 21:58 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
Legend of the fall ><;;
This tourny goes into Winter
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I think now only Flash can stand on the way of PvP final or even 4P semis
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Creationtoss vs. Skyhigh lol
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Kal, Free, Stork, Best, Bisu, Jangbi, Backho, Tempest, and whoever i'm not thinking of.... EVEN MORE PvP's likely coming soon during the RO8.
but hopefully there are more upsets so this doesn't happen.
All this tournament needs now is Rock defeating Flash.
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9070 Posts
Btw guys watch Bisu's interview from GOM Ro64 I think,there he makes some descent analysis about who is going to win the tournament
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On November 30 2008 21:58 GHOSTCLAW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 21:56 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On November 30 2008 21:54 GHOSTCLAW wrote:On November 30 2008 21:53 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On November 30 2008 21:50 Hyperionnn wrote:
Tempest's attack timing is perfect, how the hell you think that he is so bad? He perfectly charged
in before jaedong could produce over 9000 hydras and lurkers with his 6-7 hatcheries. IMO, that was a standard +1/leg upgrade zealot rush. Jd was being too greedy with 4 base build, so he didn't have enough troops to defend The slower version I guess- he did have the sair out, so it's not "exactly" the +1/speed rush. close though- and it ended up hitting the right timing window because of the 4 base 5 hat decision by jaedong Still, i would say it was more JD's fault than Tempest's impressive move I agree - It was standard play by tempest, and JD had bad decision making ><;; it happens.
The oddest thing in this all is that JD actually saw it coming and did nothing about it. :/
Overconfidence? He better pull himself together now and win games for Lecaf in the PL
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I cant belive this - SO poor decision making by JD =(.
Nice play by tempest though..
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United States17042 Posts
On November 30 2008 21:59 Solinren wrote:This tourny goes into Winter
I'm kind of kidding, kind of not - Legend of the fall is just an sc superstition, and it's only held for like 6/9 OSL's- not even general tournments. But there must be some supernatural reasoning for why protosses are owning. Although the maps arn't exactly helping in tvp
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and those 3 osls failed because of...............hahahaha......
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On November 30 2008 21:57 Highways wrote:
RO16
10 - Protoss
4 - Terran
2 - Zerg
Half the terran and zergs were terrible and jaedong is stupid.
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I am sure he just forgot to make lurkers upgrade because it makes no sense... he had lair enough early so he could have lurks when tempest attacked for second time.
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On November 30 2008 22:01 GHOSTCLAW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 21:59 Solinren wrote:On November 30 2008 21:58 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
Legend of the fall ><;; This tourny goes into Winter I'm kind of kidding, kind of not - Legend of the fall is just an sc superstition, and it's only held for like 6/9 OSL's- not even general tournments. But there must be some supernatural reasoning for why protosses are owning. Although the maps arn't exactly helping in tvp
and whats up with all the tossusers on iccup?
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On November 30 2008 21:58 simcar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 21:55 Malinor wrote:Hard times to be a JD fan. His decision making has been awefully bad for weeks. He is constantly overextending himself in midgame or is just basically doing nothing in late game after having an early lead (i.e. vs Kal in PL). His mechanics ar still absolutely top notch, but in a way he has lost his game sense. I cannot see him make it through the OSL preliminaries if he cannot pick his game up. If there is another MSL/OSL season full of Terrans and Protoss ahead, I have to punch someone. Zerg needs you JD Zerg needs SAVIORRRRR! ok ? Thank you !
I would be pleased with that also. But as it looks now, zerg may need both of them. There is really noone to fill their shoes right now.
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Weird thing is Jaedong scouted the mass gateways Tempest had prior to the rush, yet still didn't bother putting up defenses. He's going the way of Savior of overexpanding and just getting punished.
And while Jaedong's not in a slump, he is falling fast. Leaving starleagues so early is quite different from just dropping a few PL games here and there. He's just not playing well.
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On November 30 2008 22:01 (paladin)roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 21:58 GHOSTCLAW wrote:On November 30 2008 21:56 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On November 30 2008 21:54 GHOSTCLAW wrote:On November 30 2008 21:53 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On November 30 2008 21:50 Hyperionnn wrote:
Tempest's attack timing is perfect, how the hell you think that he is so bad? He perfectly charged
in before jaedong could produce over 9000 hydras and lurkers with his 6-7 hatcheries. IMO, that was a standard +1/leg upgrade zealot rush. Jd was being too greedy with 4 base build, so he didn't have enough troops to defend The slower version I guess- he did have the sair out, so it's not "exactly" the +1/speed rush. close though- and it ended up hitting the right timing window because of the 4 base 5 hat decision by jaedong Still, i would say it was more JD's fault than Tempest's impressive move I agree - It was standard play by tempest, and JD had bad decision making ><;; it happens. The oddest thing in this all is that JD actually saw it coming and did nothing about it. :/ Overconfidence? He better pull himself together now and win games for Lecaf in the PL
yup, I think it is. That is what happened with his match against free and kal..
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United States17042 Posts
On November 30 2008 22:04 Infinity.SkyLark wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 22:01 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On November 30 2008 21:58 GHOSTCLAW wrote:On November 30 2008 21:56 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On November 30 2008 21:54 GHOSTCLAW wrote:On November 30 2008 21:53 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On November 30 2008 21:50 Hyperionnn wrote:
Tempest's attack timing is perfect, how the hell you think that he is so bad? He perfectly charged
in before jaedong could produce over 9000 hydras and lurkers with his 6-7 hatcheries. IMO, that was a standard +1/leg upgrade zealot rush. Jd was being too greedy with 4 base build, so he didn't have enough troops to defend The slower version I guess- he did have the sair out, so it's not "exactly" the +1/speed rush. close though- and it ended up hitting the right timing window because of the 4 base 5 hat decision by jaedong Still, i would say it was more JD's fault than Tempest's impressive move I agree - It was standard play by tempest, and JD had bad decision making ><;; it happens. The oddest thing in this all is that JD actually saw it coming and did nothing about it. :/ Overconfidence? He better pull himself together now and win games for Lecaf in the PL yup, I think it is. That is what happened with his match against free and kal..
the key will be to see if he continues to do it in PL and in the upcoming MSL. I hope not (i'm a fan) but we'll need to wait and see
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Russian Federation1381 Posts
If Rock > Flash, i will just go mad. I blame the maps.
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rock wont > flash dont worry flash is back!
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Jaedong will come back though - he is a Champion, and when his mindset is set properly, there is no stopping him.
I'm just so sad though right now.. :<
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at least bisu flash and stork are still in it...
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On November 30 2008 22:06 GHOSTCLAW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 22:04 Infinity.SkyLark wrote:On November 30 2008 22:01 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On November 30 2008 21:58 GHOSTCLAW wrote:On November 30 2008 21:56 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On November 30 2008 21:54 GHOSTCLAW wrote:On November 30 2008 21:53 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On November 30 2008 21:50 Hyperionnn wrote:
Tempest's attack timing is perfect, how the hell you think that he is so bad? He perfectly charged
in before jaedong could produce over 9000 hydras and lurkers with his 6-7 hatcheries. IMO, that was a standard +1/leg upgrade zealot rush. Jd was being too greedy with 4 base build, so he didn't have enough troops to defend The slower version I guess- he did have the sair out, so it's not "exactly" the +1/speed rush. close though- and it ended up hitting the right timing window because of the 4 base 5 hat decision by jaedong Still, i would say it was more JD's fault than Tempest's impressive move I agree - It was standard play by tempest, and JD had bad decision making ><;; it happens. The oddest thing in this all is that JD actually saw it coming and did nothing about it. :/ Overconfidence? He better pull himself together now and win games for Lecaf in the PL yup, I think it is. That is what happened with his match against free and kal.. the key will be to see if he continues to do it in PL and in the upcoming MSL. I hope not (i'm a fan) but we'll need to wait and see
Lol? Whats with people saying that jd lost that
Theres no doubt that tempest won that game easy, jd just chocked and didnt defend properly. Hes just on a little slump and should bounce back when he runs outta money from to many whores and has to play sc properly
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On November 30 2008 22:07 Magic84 wrote:
If Rock > Flash, i will just go mad. I blame the maps.
be prepared to go mad. Tourney of upsets and with a player that likes 14cc against a player who knocks of the favorites.........I'll expect that...hahaha.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On November 30 2008 22:10 Infinity.SkyLark wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 22:07 Magic84 wrote:
If Rock > Flash, i will just go mad. I blame the maps. be prepared to go mad. Tourney of upsets and with a player that likes 14cc against a player who knocks of the favorites.........I'll expect that...hahaha.
rock doesnt knock off favourites, he beats down chumps until the round of 16 in every league he plays in and then loses spectacularily
and i love him for it
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On November 30 2008 22:11 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 22:10 Infinity.SkyLark wrote:On November 30 2008 22:07 Magic84 wrote:
If Rock > Flash, i will just go mad. I blame the maps. be prepared to go mad. Tourney of upsets and with a player that likes 14cc against a player who knocks of the favorites.........I'll expect that...hahaha. rock doesnt knock off favourites, he beats down chumps until the round of 16 in every league he plays in and then loses spectacularily and i love him for it
Do you love sea because of this reason?
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I must say, I have newfound respect for Tempest now. The only other games of his I saw was MSL against FBH, and his PvT looked absolutely horrible. Ridiculously bad and pretty much did his best to give the series away.
But while Jaedong made mistakes in this series, Tempest capitalized on them and pounced hard to make Jaedong pay. Very solid play.
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On November 30 2008 22:21 Hyperionnn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 22:11 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On November 30 2008 22:10 Infinity.SkyLark wrote:On November 30 2008 22:07 Magic84 wrote:
If Rock > Flash, i will just go mad. I blame the maps. be prepared to go mad. Tourney of upsets and with a player that likes 14cc against a player who knocks of the favorites.........I'll expect that...hahaha. rock doesnt knock off favourites, he beats down chumps until the round of 16 in every league he plays in and then loses spectacularily and i love him for it Do you love sea because of this reason?
Come on, you can't compare Rock to Sea. Sea loses to bad players and get upset in starleagues. Rock just qualify and get owned by superior players in the first round.
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Sea's SL history (Ro16s only)
Shinhan1 Yarnc
Shinhan2 Gorush
Gomtv s2 Gorush
Gomtv s4 Light
Bacchus Savior (won) Jaedong Best
Arena Forgg
Ever2008 Flash Rock GGPlay (won) (Even Rock beat him lol)
Incruit Stork Backho (won) Fantasy
I don't think that he lost to "bad" players.
And in addition, rock managed to see Ro8 three times, sea did not still managed to get past ro16.
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blablabla "jd was so shit omg" , like you can do better -.-
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So now that the major player is gone, do you think Flash has the best chance of winning this tournament? I don't think Flash will beat Bisu if it comes to that, personally.
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I have faith on Rock, he will take down Flash with his 2 base carriers.
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JD doesnt suck. He, like bisu, like stork, like flash - is awesome, but fails at times. Just like bisu stork flash, he'll be back.
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On November 30 2008 22:31 myIRE wrote:
blablabla "jd was so shit omg" , like you can do better -.-
As a fan of any sport you don't have to be good at it to be able to tell when somebody blows it. That being said I think tempest played great. Fun games to watch.
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On November 30 2008 22:35 SaharaDrac wrote:
So now that the major player is gone, do you think Flash has the best chance of winning this tournament? I don't think Flash will beat Bisu if it comes to that, personally.
are you serious? watch some old vods now pls.
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On November 30 2008 23:21 Bosu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 22:31 myIRE wrote:
blablabla "jd was so shit omg" , like you can do better -.- As a fan of any sport you don't have to be good at it to be able to tell when somebody blows it. That being said I think tempest played great. Fun games to watch.
yes but, everytime someone makes a mistake or even 2, people start bashing
there is and never will be a 100% flawless player out there, its just not in human's nature
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
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9070 Posts
On November 30 2008 23:23 iLoveKTF wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 22:35 SaharaDrac wrote:
So now that the major player is gone, do you think Flash has the best chance of winning this tournament? I don't think Flash will beat Bisu if it comes to that, personally. are you serious? watch some old vods now pls.
Will those do any good ?
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holy crap, those were upsets
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In all honesty and I know I m not better than ANY of these gamers:
Why for fucking sake did jeadong not build a few sunkens. I doubt expanding like this and focusing on macro and eco can work vs any player without a few sunkens here and there..
I just dont get it
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who is this weird guy in the crowd? (mantle, gloves, sunglasses...)
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jaedong got beat by zeal/archon timing
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Pro gaming is going down the shitter.
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WTF Jaedong lost .... So the only one that's left is Effort to cheer ??? Is this something to do with the maps that zerg can't adapt to and play ZvP ??? Last season even Luxury did better vs protoss in PL and in leagues .... Now it seems that every decent zerg and his brother are sucking vs eny protoss .
July man maybe it's time for the platinum mouse ....
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On November 30 2008 22:31 Hyperionnn wrote:
Sea's SL history (Ro16s only)
Shinhan1 Yarnc
Shinhan2 GoRush
Gomtv s2 GoRush
Gomtv s4 Light
Bacchus sAviOr (won) Jaedong Best
Arena fOrGG
Ever2008 Flash Rock GGPlay (won) (Even Rock beat him lol)
Incruit Stork BackHo (won) Fantasy
I don't think that he lost to "bad" players.
And in addition, Rock managed to see Ro8 three times, Sea did not still managed to get past ro16.
The thing is you have to take into account how good each player is. Rock is a career 46% player.  Sea[Shield] is a career 63% player. So Sea losing to those players is choking. Rock losing to player like these is expected.
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JD and Much lost? To those players? Glad I didn't watch this complete travesty.
I can accept Backho winning more than I can those two losing.
Jaedong, are you pissed yet? You had better be.
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On December 01 2008 00:51 QibingZero wrote:
JD and Much lost? To those players? Glad I didn't watch this complete travesty.
I can accept Backho winning more than I can those two losing.
Jaedong, are you pissed yet? You had better be.
Yeah it sucks i even watch BackHo vs Midas fist game an destination at one point i saw MIdas raping and went to study now i'm here and what do i see they are both dead . Not to mention Much ...
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On November 30 2008 22:35 SaharaDrac wrote:
So now that the major player is gone, do you think Flash has the best chance of winning this tournament? I don't think Flash will beat Bisu if it comes to that, personally.
May i ask what you have been smoking? Flash always beats bisu, their record is 8-3 flash's way, so in a bo5 flash will rape bisu,
Looking at the bracket this is likely gonna come down to a flash v stork finals
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Much is slumping and I expected that he might lose to HoeJJa. Also Backho wining against Midas is not such a suprise. The only result that I really hasn't anticipated is Jaedong losing to Tempest. I thought Tempest might win one game if get a bit lucky but winning bo3 against Jaedong?! So there will be no epic rematch Jaedong vs Free...
But as a KTF fan I am happy that it was Tempest who eliminated Jaedong. Hopefully this kid will develop into decent Protoss.
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YES
ARE YOU SERIOUS JAEDONG LOST
YAYY
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And HoeJJa won too. Amazing! Woo KTF!
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Time to add Tempest to my MSL Team. I have a good feeling about him.
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OOOOMMMMMMMMMFFFFFFFFFFGGGGGGGG
jaedong lost to... TEMPEST!!! LOL
KTF HWAITINGGGGG
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wtf jaedong
SO MANY PROTOSS in the ro16 fuuuuuckkkk this
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On November 30 2008 20:44 cutebabyelephant wrote:
hahahaha that shit cracked me up.
Damn jeadong - .-
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LOL what the fuck happened here?
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On December 01 2008 01:16 Scaramanga wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 22:35 SaharaDrac wrote:
So now that the major player is gone, do you think Flash has the best chance of winning this tournament? I don't think Flash will beat Bisu if it comes to that, personally. May i ask what you have been smoking? Flash always beats bisu, their record is 8-3 flash's way, so in a bo5 flash will rape bisu, Looking at the bracket this is likely gonna come down to a flash v stork finals
count the record again,
this time without counting the cheese
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besides it's gonna be a Bo5 and Bisu doesn't lose Bo5s, unless it's Mind and that was a fluke
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whole protoss race is made out of cheese !
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So I don't typically like Zerg players, but watching Hoejja was *really* fun. Much didn't play well, but either way, Hoejja micro was insane.
In a perfect world, finals would be Flash Vs. Hoejja =3
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On December 01 2008 02:28 Legume wrote:
besides it's gonna be a Bo5 and Bisu doesn't lose Bo5s, unless it's Mind and that was a fluke
Flash 3-1 over Bisu in Bacchus OSL semifinal, only loss coming on Troy. So, you're completely wrong.
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On November 30 2008 17:21 Tadzio00 wrote:I'm feeling cynical after the results of the last few weeks, so I'm gonna predict that every protoss wins. That's right, I'm proclaiming right here and now that Tempest will beat Jaedong. Today, zergs world-wide will die a little inside.
wow.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On December 01 2008 02:26 Legume wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 01:16 Scaramanga wrote:On November 30 2008 22:35 SaharaDrac wrote:
So now that the major player is gone, do you think Flash has the best chance of winning this tournament? I don't think Flash will beat Bisu if it comes to that, personally. May i ask what you have been smoking? Flash always beats bisu, their record is 8-3 flash's way, so in a bo5 flash will rape bisu, Looking at the bracket this is likely gonna come down to a flash v stork finals count the record again, this time without counting the cheese
sounds like some butthurt going around here
edit: oh the irony of an SKT telling a KTF player to NOT COUNT CHEESING
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Jaedong has been displaying poor gamesense for the last month, his mechanics are still as great as ever--that's why he still demolishes zergs--but his game sense has been lacking and he drops game he shouldn't. Well, on the bright side, game sense can be reclaimed.
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Oh well no Jaedong, pretty much means Flash is gonna own this shit up easily.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On December 01 2008 02:42 Frits wrote:
Oh well no Jaedong, pretty much means Flash is gonna own this shit up easily.
unless he meets some noname zerg or GGplay.
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lol flash's TvZ is insane there's no way he's losing to any zerg that isn't Jaedong.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On December 01 2008 02:47 Frits wrote:
lol flash's TvZ is insane there's no way he's losing to any zerg that isn't Jaedong.
Flash and Stork always had a bad history with GGplay. THey even said that the one player they would never want to meet is GGplay.
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United States1865 Posts
fuck this season man, and im not just talking about GOM
ZvP is just a depressing joke lately and not a single map in this tournament has a positive win ratio for Z in it.
GOM TV CLASSIC
Destination: 39% vs Protoss
Medusa: 45% vs Protoss
Neo Requiem: 48% vs Protoss
Not to mention:
CLUB DAY MSL (The one that had a 4 Protoss Semi-Final)
Athena II: 0% vs Protoss
Byzantium II: 0% vs Protoss
Destination: 39% vs Protoss
Medusa: 45% vs Protoss
PROLEAGUE:
Colosseum II: 38% vs Protoss
Chupung-Ryeong: 41% vs Protoss
Proleague has two maps with slightly above 50% win for Zerg:: Rush Hour 3 (which is just balanced) and Andromeda. The rest all favor Protoss, and the proleague season overall has a 47% win rate for Zerg vs Protoss.
*edit*
ALSO WORTH NOTING: Protoss have an even easier time vs Terran
Neo Requiem: 70% win PvT
Medusa: 73% win PvT
Destination: 60% win PvT
Holy shit those numbers are crazy. While ZvT remains favoring Terran, meaning Z has absolutely no easy matchups, Protoss has basically a freewin vs Terran on some of these maps.
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Lol, with the Bisu build+variations, PvZ and TvZ are both slightly favored against Zerg.
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I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first.
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On December 01 2008 02:49 MrHoon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 02:47 Frits wrote:
lol flash's TvZ is insane there's no way he's losing to any zerg that isn't Jaedong. Flash and Stork always had a bad history with GGplay. THey even said that the one player they would never want to meet is GGplay. I would agree that Flash has a bad history against GGplay, and he has a hard time against *top* zvt players, so yeah. But flash's history 4-5 against GGplay, is a huge difference between storks history, 1-5. I think Flash may be nervous against GGplay, but its not to the extent where hes phyced out, like Stork might be. Not a Stork-Sea, or Savior-Bisu type thing, but more of a Stork-Iris, a rivalry.
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United States1865 Posts
On December 01 2008 03:01 Frits wrote:
I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first.
I'm a little bit frustrated when people use this argument, becuase we both know these maps will never get the hundreds of plays needed to get a truly accurate measurement before its on to the next season and new maps.
The most you can do is look at the general trend -- which is that every single map has more Protoss winners than Zerg, that the overall win ratio in Proleauge for that matchup is favorable to Protoss (which has quite a large number of games) and the (yes, subjective) evidence that extremely strong zerg players with numerous medals such as Jaedong are losing to a guy that has had 4 televised ZvP in his entire career, half of which he lost.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
PS: I TOLD YOU BITCHES JAEDONG'S NICKNAME WAS THE TYRANT
HAHAHAHA
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On December 01 2008 03:12 Atrioc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 03:01 Frits wrote:
I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first. I'm a little bit frustrated when people use this argument, becuase we both know these maps will never get the hundreds of plays needed to get a truly accurate measurement before its on to the next season and new maps. The most you can do is look at the general trend -- which is that every single map has more Protoss winners than Zerg, that the overall win ratio in Proleauge for that matchup is favorable to Protoss (which has quite a large number of games) and the (yes, subjective) evidence that extremely strong zerg players with numerous medals such as Jaedong are losing to a guy that has had 4 televised ZvP in his entire career, half of which he lost.
Yeah but the general trend isn't significant so it might as well be coincidence.
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jaedong???? that was not supposed to happen man
noooooo many p's once again?
cmon flash i believe in you man.
ps. i like these maps but statistically TvP is so hard
stork/flash all the way
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United States1865 Posts
On December 01 2008 03:27 Frits wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 03:12 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:01 Frits wrote:
I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first. I'm a little bit frustrated when people use this argument, becuase we both know these maps will never get the hundreds of plays needed to get a truly accurate measurement before its on to the next season and new maps. The most you can do is look at the general trend -- which is that every single map has more Protoss winners than Zerg, that the overall win ratio in Proleauge for that matchup is favorable to Protoss (which has quite a large number of games) and the (yes, subjective) evidence that extremely strong zerg players with numerous medals such as Jaedong are losing to a guy that has had 4 televised ZvP in his entire career, half of which he lost. Yeah but the general trend isn't significant so it might as well be coincidence.
So you think this season's maps dont favor Protoss?
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btw as good as bisu is a flash vs. bisu bo5 should be one that is favored for flash cheese or not
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On November 30 2008 23:55 Velr wrote:
who is this weird guy in the crowd? (mantle, gloves, sunglasses...)
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On December 01 2008 03:32 Atrioc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 03:27 Frits wrote:On December 01 2008 03:12 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:01 Frits wrote:
I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first. I'm a little bit frustrated when people use this argument, becuase we both know these maps will never get the hundreds of plays needed to get a truly accurate measurement before its on to the next season and new maps. The most you can do is look at the general trend -- which is that every single map has more Protoss winners than Zerg, that the overall win ratio in Proleauge for that matchup is favorable to Protoss (which has quite a large number of games) and the (yes, subjective) evidence that extremely strong zerg players with numerous medals such as Jaedong are losing to a guy that has had 4 televised ZvP in his entire career, half of which he lost. Yeah but the general trend isn't significant so it might as well be coincidence. So you think this season's maps dont favor Protoss?
Just gonna do the GSL ones to keep it a little ontopic.
Destination: Not enough statistical evidence. 9-14 doesn't have to mean shit yet. It definately looks balanced enough to me. PvZ favored? I don't think so but maybe it is.
Medusa: Definately not enough statistical evidence to make a valid judgement on but this one definately doesn't favor PvZ. Zerg can easily get 3 bases here, the bridge expansions seem easy for protoss to defend but then again they're kinda far away from the mains and the zerg can use lurkers to go in the back. Not PvZ favored imo.
Neo Requiem: ZvP: 41-43 (48.8%) -> I think with a 1.2% deviation it's fair to assume this map is balanced with 84 games played. It looks balanced enough to me, easy enough to get a third expansion etc.
Besides upsets happen, what about Best losing to some noname? Doesn't necessarily have to be attributed to maps. I think Jaedong made a mistake not reacting to the timing pushes correctly, relying too much on his micro. Just remember how good shuttle did last season killing off good players, it happens.
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On November 30 2008 20:57 kemoryan wrote:
Jaedong is going to show him why I chose him for my proleague fantasy team.
oops :3
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Reccomended game of current day? Go watch all of them this tournament is FANTASTIC and you get at the same price english commentary and a wonderfull girl (Miss Kim!)!
http://www.gomtv.net/classics2
Out of joke, all the games i watched were really good and entertaining (i watched everything but Much vs HoeJJa[S.G] game 1, which indeed was a very good game (see OP).
Gonna watch it now! Bye!
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On December 01 2008 02:53 Atrioc wrote:
Holy shit those numbers are crazy. While ZvT remains favoring Terran, meaning Z has absolutely no easy matchups, Protoss has basically a freewin vs Terran on some of these maps.
That's what I'm thinking too. Ever since Z isn't favored over P anymore, P are dominating because of no hard matchup anymore.
Map makers could of course fix that, but it seems they like giving P an edge.
In any case, something is wrong in current SC. I can understand that P is the easiest race in the foreign "low APM" scene, but now it seems that it's also the easiest race on the pro level. And that's just ridiculous.
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On December 01 2008 03:59 0xDEADBEEF wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 02:53 Atrioc wrote:
Holy shit those numbers are crazy. While ZvT remains favoring Terran, meaning Z has absolutely no easy matchups, Protoss has basically a freewin vs Terran on some of these maps. That's what I'm thinking too. Ever since Z isn't favored over P anymore, P are dominating because of no hard matchup anymore. Map makers could of course fix that, but it seems they like to give P an edge. In any case, something is wrong in current SC. I can understand that P is the easiest race in the foreign "low APM" scene, but now it seems that it's also the easiest race on the pro level. And that's just ridiculous.
its not because they are "easier" is the maps more or less favor P and if u look at the P's who are in the round of 16 they are the best p's around. best stork bisu jangbi kal free etc. they deserve to make it, but the maps help a little. plus lots of upsets going on this tournament
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I would contend that it's not the maps that are imbalanced so much as the competition being better. Look at Protoss right now. Look at Zerg and Terran right now.
Bisu, Stork, Jangbi, Best, Free, Kal.
Jaedong, Luxury, July (?)
Flash, forGG(?), fantasy (?)
Protoss are just plain better than their competition now. They're more creative and more dominant, and this results in the middle of the pack improving as well (as they incorporate these creative strategies).
I'm a protoss myself and I admit that the majority of the maps are easier against zerg now.
But...are you serious? Really? Look at Neo Requiem. Just look at its stats. Look at its stats in 2008 and look at its stats before that. Protoss have just gotten much better than zerg. I don't mean the race. I mean the top players. The fact of the matter is that maps have not allowed Protoss to be this dominant, although they've certainly helped; rather, it has been the skill of the protoss progamers themselves that has allowed them to rise to such a level.
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these maps arent exactly TvP friendly
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WTF? You gotta give it to them. GOM is the no.1 upset tournament. The way the brackets are and considering the players left, this looks like another protoss fest, at least the right bracket. Fuck, I can't believe Much fell 0-2.
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midas jaedong why
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On December 01 2008 04:08 0cz3c wrote:
I would contend that it's not the maps that are imbalanced so much as the competition being better. Look at Protoss right now. Look at Zerg and Terran right now.
Bisu, Stork, Jangbi, Best, Free, Kal.
Jaedong, Luxury, July (?)
Flash, forGG(?), fantasy (?)
Protoss are just plain better than their competition now. They're more creative and more dominant, and this results in the middle of the pack improving as well (as they incorporate these creative strategies).
I'm a protoss myself and I admit that the majority of the maps are easier against zerg now.
But...are you serious? Really? Look at Neo Requiem. Just look at its stats. Look at its stats in 2008 and look at its stats before that. Protoss have just gotten much better than zerg. I don't mean the race. I mean the top players. The fact of the matter is that maps have not allowed Protoss to be this dominant, although they've certainly helped; rather, it has been the skill of the protoss progamers themselves that has allowed them to rise to such a level.
I agree. It's not that the maps are imbalanced, causing good zergs to lose when they shouldn't, it's that most of the zergs just suck.
Besides Jaedong, there's just not any zergs that are very good at this game right now. You could make an argument for savior and maybe one or two others, but they aren't anywhere near jaedong's level. In contrast, protoss has bisu and stork and best and free now winning everything and terran has fantasy, fbh, and a few others. But even they just don't look as good as the protoss. If you look at the top elo rankings, every protoss on the top deserves to be there.
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9070 Posts
On December 01 2008 02:53 Atrioc wrote:
fuck this season man, and im not just talking about GOM
ZvP is just a depressing joke lately and not a single map in this tournament has a positive win ratio for Z in it.
GOM TV CLASSIC
Destination: 39% vs Protoss
Medusa: 45% vs Protoss
Neo Requiem: 48% vs Protoss
Not to mention:
CLUB DAY MSL (The one that had a 4 Protoss Semi-Final)
Athena II: 0% vs Protoss
Byzantium II: 0% vs Protoss
Destination: 39% vs Protoss
Medusa: 45% vs Protoss
PROLEAGUE:
Colosseum II: 38% vs Protoss
Chupung-Ryeong: 41% vs Protoss
Proleague has two maps with slightly above 50% win for Zerg:: Rush Hour 3 (which is just balanced) and Andromeda. The rest all favor Protoss, and the proleague season overall has a 47% win rate for Zerg vs Protoss.
*edit*
ALSO WORTH NOTING: Protoss have an even easier time vs Terran
Neo Requiem: 70% win PvT
Medusa: 73% win PvT
Destination: 60% win PvT
Holy shit those numbers are crazy. While ZvT remains favoring Terran, meaning Z has absolutely no easy matchups, Protoss has basically a freewin vs Terran on some of these maps.
yeah lets blame the maps again... or maybe the tosses are just that good, maybe 6 from the current top players are tosses
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Wow, this is really depressing, I was really looking forward to watching Jaedong vs free 2...
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On December 01 2008 04:29 disciple wrote:
yeah lets blame the maps again... or maybe the tosses are just that good, maybe 6 from the current top players are tosses
Or maybe these Tosses are only that good *because* the current maps favor them.
Obviously there's no real answer so this argument can go back and forth for all eternity, but you can look at the stats and realize that Ps are heavily favored at the moment in both matchups (not counting mirror) on most maps, and something should probably be done about that.
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To those blaming everything on the maps:
The MSL prelim had Destination(39%), Medusa(45%), and Coliseum 2(38%) as its maps. Out of the 24 qualified, 14 were zergs.
The simple truth is that the best players today are tosses. End of story.
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United States20661 Posts
That was a very Reach way of winning PvZ
Zealots! Storms! TRUE MAN. Even that epic fail 2 gate in game 2 was very Reach.
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On December 01 2008 04:48 baubo wrote:
To those blaming everything on the maps:
The MSL prelim had Destination(39%), Medusa(45%), and Coliseum 2(38%) as its maps. Out of the 24 qualified, 14 were zergs.
The simple truth is that the best players today are tosses. End of story.
There is a correlation between the maps and the tosses, it's impossible to say whether it;s the coinencidental influx of good toss players or if it's the map imbalance. Toss do have it easier than other races with no hard matchup, and many players have used this to do better. However, the mark of a great player is one that succeeds against imbalanced maps.
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All I can see is that Hot_Bid was right, "Zerg users are like their race. Their careers can blaze and rage or wither and die all within a year, a season, or a single game."
It is so ironic to see twice the same loss to firebathero, having the same effect on sAviOr first and now Jaedong. These two players are so special and they look-alike in their fury for win. See how Jaedong looked pissed in his matchup against Kwanro 3 days after his loss and then compare to sAviOr. No protoss or terran has experienced the fall that sAviOr has, and none of them could have won a 3-0 rape against Flash just after being schooled by ForGG.
Jaedong and sAviOr are destined to be bonjwas or to die in the ashes.
sAviOr is playing FBH tomorrow, let's see if he will rise again !
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On December 01 2008 04:50 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 04:48 baubo wrote:
To those blaming everything on the maps:
The MSL prelim had Destination(39%), Medusa(45%), and Coliseum 2(38%) as its maps. Out of the 24 qualified, 14 were zergs.
The simple truth is that the best players today are tosses. End of story.
There is a correlation between the maps and the tosses, it's impossible to say whether it;s the coinencidental influx of good toss players or if it's the map imbalance. Toss do have it easier than other races with no hard matchup, and many players have used this to do better. However, the mark of a great player is one that succeeds against imbalanced maps.
The mark of a great player is to know the maps and play it to the advantage of his race. Hoejja showed great map understanding today and outplayed Much because of it. Unless a map is ridiculously unbalanced, a player of each race should find ways to exploit the map in his favor.
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Poor Jaedong, his play has been getting worse and worse and he might seriously be in a slump now. Seeing the top zerg lose to all these tosses is making me lose faith in the zerg race.
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On December 01 2008 02:47 Frits wrote:
lol flash's TvZ is insane there's no way he's losing to any zerg that isn't Jaedong.
What about Zero? Did you see Flash's Bo3 against GGPlay?
It's pretty funny when Jaedong loses.
And damn it Midas. Damn it.
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Why are you guys even bringing up zero and ggplay?
Only zergs left are hoejja and effort, both which are going to be easily crushed by flash's solid play.
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
Wow, a large bunch of upsets here...
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There is just something about this tournament and upsets, maybe it's format?
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OMG wtf is wrong with JD?
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The maps MIGHT be imbalanced this season, but there are far more interesting games this season than in previous ones IMO. Especially last season which to me was pretty boring.
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wow a lot of fucking upsets.. great to see tempest doing something amazing.
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I'm pretty excited about the KTF Protosses. They were supposed to be the equivalent to the SKT zergs, but there's some real talent between Tempest and Stats.
On December 01 2008 05:16 Avidkeystamper wrote:
There is just something about this tournament and upsets, maybe it's format?
Part of it is undoubtedly the format, though I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. It's more "open" than the MSL/OSL where it's far easier to qualify as a new player rather than heavily favoring established players. It's also longer than the other leagues because of this and players have to face more rounds and more challenges to get to the top.
There are upsets in every league. The GSL just allows more opportunities for it to happen, I think.
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but then againn... 2/4 isnt that bad for me. D:
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Wow the two people I definitely didn't believe would lose were the ones that lost. What a crazy world.
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On December 01 2008 03:32 Atrioc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 03:27 Frits wrote:On December 01 2008 03:12 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:01 Frits wrote:
I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first. I'm a little bit frustrated when people use this argument, becuase we both know these maps will never get the hundreds of plays needed to get a truly accurate measurement before its on to the next season and new maps. The most you can do is look at the general trend -- which is that every single map has more Protoss winners than Zerg, that the overall win ratio in Proleauge for that matchup is favorable to Protoss (which has quite a large number of games) and the (yes, subjective) evidence that extremely strong zerg players with numerous medals such as Jaedong are losing to a guy that has had 4 televised ZvP in his entire career, half of which he lost. Yeah but the general trend isn't significant so it might as well be coincidence. So you think this season's maps dont favor Protoss? Not to the extent where you can bitch and whine about them, or use them in any way shape or form to rationalize Jaedongs defeat.
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One point why there is so good amount of protoss players left is that brackets are very good for protoss players, nearly no mirrors. RO16 only 2 mirrors which is minimum (10 P players). But then RO8 will be some more PvP if all tosses win.
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How can you deny these frigging maps aren't imbalanced? (speaking about TvP)
Fun fact: Only 4 Terrans in Ro16. NONE of them have to face Protoss on these maps. Mind, Flash, pepe, sKyHigh - they all played only Zergs or Terrans.
When Terran meet Protoss on these maps, he got kicked out. Coincidence? Yeah, maybe, but I won't be surprised when all Terrans get kicked out next round. And PvP si so boring...*sigh*.
btw. - I just noticed TLPD isn't updated for some games. For example pepe vs Frozean or forGG vs SoO...
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Arrgh.. this is shit. I ain't following this GSL no more. At least in MSL, the round of 8 still had a couple decent zergs left.
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On December 01 2008 04:55 HajnaL wrote:
It is so ironic to see twice the same loss to firebathero, having the same effect on sAviOr first and now Jaedong.
Jaedongs game has been problematic far before he met FBH last week. All the guys who kicked JD out of the leagues (Han, Free, Tempest) got a lot of credit for it, but basically it was JDs bad play everytime. Today, Tempest basically played a totally standard timing attack 2 times, and JD simply cannot defend. He used to dominate people and now he does not seem to know what to do after mid game, which often leads to totally overextending himself.
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On December 01 2008 06:40 ASAzerg wrote:
Arrgh.. this is shit. I ain't following this GSL no more. At least in MSL, the round of 8 still has a couple decent zergs left.
MSL is long time over There is only GSL left for now.
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On December 01 2008 06:45 Lebesgue wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 06:40 ASAzerg wrote:
Arrgh.. this is shit. I ain't following this GSL no more. At least in MSL, the round of 8 still has a couple decent zergs left.
MSL is long time over There is only GSL left for now.
Oops, I mean still "had".
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On December 01 2008 06:40 ASAzerg wrote:
Arrgh.. this is shit. I ain't following this GSL no more. At least in MSL, the round of 8 still had a couple decent zergs left.
You sir can't count. In the Ro8 the MSL had Yarnc, Jangbi, Free, Bisu, FBH, Kal, Stork and Nada. So unless someone switched races there was 1 zerg who got his ass handed to him ZvP.
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On December 01 2008 05:12 Frits wrote:
Why are you guys even bringing up zero and ggplay?
Only zergs left are hoejja and effort, both which are going to be easily crushed by flash's solid play.
Effort > Flash if Flash ever gets far enough.
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On December 01 2008 07:35 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 05:12 Frits wrote:
Why are you guys even bringing up zero and ggplay?
Only zergs left are hoejja and effort, both which are going to be easily crushed by flash's solid play. Effort > Flash if Flash ever gets far enough.
You can't be serious, Flash will wipe the floor with effort.
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Flash has definitely been weak versus zerg this season. I doubt it'll last though. Historically, he's been excellent in that matchup.
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hmm, time for the return of flash...
*crosses fingers*
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On December 01 2008 07:43 liger13 wrote:
hmm, time for the return of flash...
*crosses fingers*
u and me also
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Last time a GOM tournament had bad maps for PvT (at least Katrina), one Terran hope rose above them all.
Flash's TvP has been looking amazing lately, but the maps are about as bad as it can get. Still, Flash has the Savior circa 2006 "I'm good on maps the rest of my race is bad at" thing going so with JD gone, this is now officially Flash's tournament to lose.
And anyone who thinks Bisu beats Flash in a BO5 really needs to watch their historical matchups as well as their recent individual PvTs and TvPs respectively. Bisu looks good but Flash looks tyrannical.
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KTF, open the champagne now!
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Rofl WOW at these results. Jaedong fails yet again.
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On November 30 2008 21:50 Hyperionnn wrote:
Tempest's attack timing is perfect, how the hell you think that he is so bad? He perfectly charged
in before jaedong could produce over 9000 hydras and lurkers with his 6-7 hatcheries.
definitely, i dont understand any of these guys saying that jaedong lost to a noob. sure, tempest is not the greatest player out there, but he does have very notable wins.
his macro is beastly, and his micro and timing seems to be improving. finally ktf, known for its great line up of protosses (garimto, reach, nal_ra) has tempest who i believe has great potential to becoming a great player
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On December 01 2008 08:05 darktreb wrote:
Last time a GOM tournament had bad maps for PvT (at least Katrina), one Terran hope rose above them all.
Flash's TvP has been looking amazing lately, but the maps are about as bad as it can get. Still, Flash has the Savior circa 2006 "I'm good on maps the rest of my race is bad at" thing going so with JD gone, this is now officially Flash's tournament to lose.
And anyone who thinks Bisu beats Flash in a BO5 really needs to watch their historical matchups as well as their recent individual PvTs and TvPs respectively. Bisu looks good but Flash looks tyrannical.
No way, Bisu is on a tear and he's going to prove to the world that he is truly the Bonjwa. Flash and Stork who might have beaten him during his slump will fall before the dagger of the ninja. Bisu's revolution has already begun and all doubters will soon be left speechless.
In their historical games, Bisu was in a slump because of a wrist injury and a team transfer. Besides, in half of the games that Flash won, it was through cheese. Bisu's back and stronger than ever before.
You remember the Clubday MSL? Guess who won? Bisu. Guess who got eliminated in the round of 32? Flash who got pwned by Yellow[Arnc]. Guess who Bisu recently pwned in Proleague? Yellow[Arnac]. Case closed.
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ok guys, some of u who said flash is weak against zerg, please tell me ur joking. he has a 62 percent ratio against zerg, and i dont think thats weak. sure, its his weakest matchup according to stats, but hes still a tank. id call him the perfect terran over xellos, even though im a xellos fan
ktf is showing great signs. hoejja and tempest look like they have potential, flash and luxury. i dont even know what happened to 815 but im sure he will be back...hopefully
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On December 01 2008 09:36 thestool91 wrote:
ok guys, some of u who said flash is weak against zerg, please tell me ur joking. he has a 62 percent ratio against zerg, and i dont think thats weak. sure, its his weakest matchup according to stats, but hes still a tank. id call him the perfect terran over xellos, even though im a xellos fan
ktf is showing great signs. hoejja and tempest look like they have potential, flash and luxury. i dont even know what happened to 815 but im sure he will be back...hopefully
Look at his recent record vs Zerg, don't forget the GSL S1 Finals, it's not as dominant as his other MUs and certainly doesn't look invincible against good zergs.
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United States1865 Posts
On December 01 2008 05:56 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 03:32 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:27 Frits wrote:On December 01 2008 03:12 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:01 Frits wrote:
I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first. I'm a little bit frustrated when people use this argument, becuase we both know these maps will never get the hundreds of plays needed to get a truly accurate measurement before its on to the next season and new maps. The most you can do is look at the general trend -- which is that every single map has more Protoss winners than Zerg, that the overall win ratio in Proleauge for that matchup is favorable to Protoss (which has quite a large number of games) and the (yes, subjective) evidence that extremely strong zerg players with numerous medals such as Jaedong are losing to a guy that has had 4 televised ZvP in his entire career, half of which he lost. Yeah but the general trend isn't significant so it might as well be coincidence. So you think this season's maps dont favor Protoss? Not to the extent where you can bitch and whine about them, or use them in any way shape or form to rationalize Jaedongs defeat.
Dont troll. Have a reasonable argument or dont post.
Notice that Jaedong dominated on the one map in the pool that could be considered balanced -- the Neo Requiem game showed perfect form ZvP and Jaedong both microing better and having far far far superior decision making, because the map allowed for those things to shine.
Then notice how the other two games were A-move timing attack build order wins, the sign of a weakness in Jaedong's play, yes, but only someone completely ignorant would say that he just forgot about the possibility of a timing attack in the hundreds of practice games he played prior to this match. He went for the economy/build that he did because he figured it to be his best choice for the maps, and he got rolled over by a timing attack.
Think about it like this: If all 3 games had been played on Neo Requiem, do you think Tempest would have won? I think anyone that watched the games would say that he would not.
*edit*
And this is just the argument from the Zerg perspective -- I can hardly see how anyone could make the case that the current map pool doesnt favor Protoss in PvT
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As much as I love Stork, I have to say that the overgrowth of protosses in later rounds is getting hella annoying.
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Hahaha lol at you Zerg fans crying. PvZ is now the same as it was 1+ year ago! It seems that zerg has to actually put a little bit extra into every game in order to win ZvP, just like Protosses had to do in the past.
Justice exists!
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im sick of watchin pvx
srsly first clubday and now this wtf
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On December 01 2008 09:59 Atrioc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 05:56 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 01 2008 03:32 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:27 Frits wrote:On December 01 2008 03:12 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:01 Frits wrote:
I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first. I'm a little bit frustrated when people use this argument, becuase we both know these maps will never get the hundreds of plays needed to get a truly accurate measurement before its on to the next season and new maps. The most you can do is look at the general trend -- which is that every single map has more Protoss winners than Zerg, that the overall win ratio in Proleauge for that matchup is favorable to Protoss (which has quite a large number of games) and the (yes, subjective) evidence that extremely strong zerg players with numerous medals such as Jaedong are losing to a guy that has had 4 televised ZvP in his entire career, half of which he lost. Yeah but the general trend isn't significant so it might as well be coincidence. So you think this season's maps dont favor Protoss? Not to the extent where you can bitch and whine about them, or use them in any way shape or form to rationalize Jaedongs defeat. Dont troll. Have a reasonable argument or dont post. Notice that Jaedong dominated on the one map in the pool that could be considered balanced -- the Neo Requiem game showed perfect form ZvP and Jaedong both microing better and having far far far superior decision making, because the map allowed for those things to shine. Then notice how the other two games were A-move timing attack build order wins, the sign of a weakness in Jaedong's play, yes, but only someone completely ignorant would say that he just forgot about the possibility of a timing attack in the hundreds of practice games he played prior to this match. He went for the economy/build that he did because he figured it to be his best choice for the maps, and he got rolled over by a timing attack. Think about it like this: If all 3 games had been played on Neo Requiem, do you think Tempest would have won? I think anyone that watched the games would say that he would not. *edit* And this is just the argument from the Zerg perspective -- I can hardly see how anyone could make the case that the current map pool doesnt favor Protoss in PvT
Man i dont know how you think this argument is valid, the map pool isnt all neo req so why even say it, Jaedong lost just get over it
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On December 01 2008 12:17 Scaramanga wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 09:59 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 05:56 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 01 2008 03:32 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:27 Frits wrote:On December 01 2008 03:12 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:01 Frits wrote:
I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first. I'm a little bit frustrated when people use this argument, becuase we both know these maps will never get the hundreds of plays needed to get a truly accurate measurement before its on to the next season and new maps. The most you can do is look at the general trend -- which is that every single map has more Protoss winners than Zerg, that the overall win ratio in Proleauge for that matchup is favorable to Protoss (which has quite a large number of games) and the (yes, subjective) evidence that extremely strong zerg players with numerous medals such as Jaedong are losing to a guy that has had 4 televised ZvP in his entire career, half of which he lost. Yeah but the general trend isn't significant so it might as well be coincidence. So you think this season's maps dont favor Protoss? Not to the extent where you can bitch and whine about them, or use them in any way shape or form to rationalize Jaedongs defeat. Dont troll. Have a reasonable argument or dont post. Notice that Jaedong dominated on the one map in the pool that could be considered balanced -- the Neo Requiem game showed perfect form ZvP and Jaedong both microing better and having far far far superior decision making, because the map allowed for those things to shine. Then notice how the other two games were A-move timing attack build order wins, the sign of a weakness in Jaedong's play, yes, but only someone completely ignorant would say that he just forgot about the possibility of a timing attack in the hundreds of practice games he played prior to this match. He went for the economy/build that he did because he figured it to be his best choice for the maps, and he got rolled over by a timing attack. Think about it like this: If all 3 games had been played on Neo Requiem, do you think Tempest would have won? I think anyone that watched the games would say that he would not. *edit* And this is just the argument from the Zerg perspective -- I can hardly see how anyone could make the case that the current map pool doesnt favor Protoss in PvT Man i dont know how you think this argument is valid, the map pool isnt all neo req so why even say it, Jaedong lost just get over it
You are not a Flash fanboy, you are a Jaedong fanboy-hater, you always dismiss arguments with one-liner get over its, honestly.
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On December 01 2008 12:27 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 12:17 Scaramanga wrote:On December 01 2008 09:59 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 05:56 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 01 2008 03:32 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:27 Frits wrote:On December 01 2008 03:12 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:01 Frits wrote:
I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first. I'm a little bit frustrated when people use this argument, becuase we both know these maps will never get the hundreds of plays needed to get a truly accurate measurement before its on to the next season and new maps. The most you can do is look at the general trend -- which is that every single map has more Protoss winners than Zerg, that the overall win ratio in Proleauge for that matchup is favorable to Protoss (which has quite a large number of games) and the (yes, subjective) evidence that extremely strong zerg players with numerous medals such as Jaedong are losing to a guy that has had 4 televised ZvP in his entire career, half of which he lost. Yeah but the general trend isn't significant so it might as well be coincidence. So you think this season's maps dont favor Protoss? Not to the extent where you can bitch and whine about them, or use them in any way shape or form to rationalize Jaedongs defeat. Dont troll. Have a reasonable argument or dont post. Notice that Jaedong dominated on the one map in the pool that could be considered balanced -- the Neo Requiem game showed perfect form ZvP and Jaedong both microing better and having far far far superior decision making, because the map allowed for those things to shine. Then notice how the other two games were A-move timing attack build order wins, the sign of a weakness in Jaedong's play, yes, but only someone completely ignorant would say that he just forgot about the possibility of a timing attack in the hundreds of practice games he played prior to this match. He went for the economy/build that he did because he figured it to be his best choice for the maps, and he got rolled over by a timing attack. Think about it like this: If all 3 games had been played on Neo Requiem, do you think Tempest would have won? I think anyone that watched the games would say that he would not. *edit* And this is just the argument from the Zerg perspective -- I can hardly see how anyone could make the case that the current map pool doesnt favor Protoss in PvT Man i dont know how you think this argument is valid, the map pool isnt all neo req so why even say it, Jaedong lost just get over it You are not a Flash fanboy, you are a Jaedong fanboy-hater, you always dismiss arguments with one-liner get over its, honestly.
No, im pointing out a horribly flawed argument, hes trying to justify jaedongs loss because of the maps, clearly jaedong should have overcome this map imbalance being the player that he is but he didnt, im just saying get over it
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And the circus started again... Jaedong is out and fanboys are going crazy blaming everyone and everything...
Medusa is fairly ok for ZvP. The record is 9:11 while 4 out of 11 wins for Protoss come from Bisu who is on fire and he is typical vZ sniper. If anything Medusa is imbalanced against Terran who are freaking 33.3% against zergs and 25% against protoss and yet I don't see whining boys crying for Terrans as they fell one after the other... Sigh... Just accept please that Jaedong is not in the form lately.
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On December 01 2008 13:20 Lebesgue wrote:
And the circus started again... Jaedong is out and fanboys are going crazy blaming everyone and everything...
Medusa is fairly ok for ZvP. The record is 9:11 while 4 out of 11 wins for Protoss come from Bisu who is on fire and he is typical vZ sniper. If anything Medusa is imbalanced against Terran who are freaking 33.3% against zergs and 25% against protoss and yet I don't see whining boys crying for Terrans as they fell one after the other... Sigh... Just accept please that Jaedong is not in the form lately.
While the cause of the "blame" is due to Jaedong's subpar performance, their arguments, for the most part are correct--the maps give the protoss the advantage.
On December 01 2008 06:14 adelarge wrote:
How can you deny these frigging maps aren't imbalanced? (speaking about TvP)
Fun fact: Only 4 Terrans in Ro16. NONE of them have to face Protoss on these maps. Mind, Flash, pepe, sKyHigh - they all played only Zergs or Terrans.
When Terran meet Protoss on these maps, he got kicked out. Coincidence? Yeah, maybe, but I won't be surprised when all Terrans get kicked out next round. And PvP si so boring...*sigh*.
btw. - I just noticed TLPD isn't updated for some games. For example pepe vs Frozean or forGG vs SoO...
On December 01 2008 09:59 Atrioc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 05:56 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 01 2008 03:32 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:27 Frits wrote:On December 01 2008 03:12 Atrioc wrote:On December 01 2008 03:01 Frits wrote:
I'm not sure if you can base your statistics on something that has a 12% deviation as the biggest outlier with not a whole lot of games played on most maps.
You need a valid standard deviation first. I'm a little bit frustrated when people use this argument, becuase we both know these maps will never get the hundreds of plays needed to get a truly accurate measurement before its on to the next season and new maps. The most you can do is look at the general trend -- which is that every single map has more Protoss winners than Zerg, that the overall win ratio in Proleauge for that matchup is favorable to Protoss (which has quite a large number of games) and the (yes, subjective) evidence that extremely strong zerg players with numerous medals such as Jaedong are losing to a guy that has had 4 televised ZvP in his entire career, half of which he lost. Yeah but the general trend isn't significant so it might as well be coincidence. So you think this season's maps dont favor Protoss? Not to the extent where you can bitch and whine about them, or use them in any way shape or form to rationalize Jaedongs defeat. Dont troll. Have a reasonable argument or dont post. Notice that Jaedong dominated on the one map in the pool that could be considered balanced -- the Neo Requiem game showed perfect form ZvP and Jaedong both microing better and having far far far superior decision making, because the map allowed for those things to shine. Then notice how the other two games were A-move timing attack build order wins, the sign of a weakness in Jaedong's play, yes, but only someone completely ignorant would say that he just forgot about the possibility of a timing attack in the hundreds of practice games he played prior to this match. He went for the economy/build that he did because he figured it to be his best choice for the maps, and he got rolled over by a timing attack. Think about it like this: If all 3 games had been played on Neo Requiem, do you think Tempest would have won? I think anyone that watched the games would say that he would not. *edit* And this is just the argument from the Zerg perspective -- I can hardly see how anyone could make the case that the current map pool doesnt favor Protoss in PvT
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Protoss is 1a2a3a4a, even Midas thinks so.
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I tell you guys, the finals will be Mind vs Free
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dont;;;
Surprised that tempest beat jaedong and hoejja beat much.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
Map Pool = Better for Protoss
When Flash got into the scene = 6 wins on the INFAMOUS KATRINA! (ONLY TERRAN TO DO THIS)
When flash broke into the scene = GSI
Current Era = Protoss Era
Terran's last hope against protoss = Flash
Flash Build = Destroys all protoss except if they go carrier build which gets undetected.
Flash = Carrier Killer, and gave Stork 2 silvers.
LETZ GO FLASH MAKE SOME PROTOSS BITCHES CRY
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WTF???? Jaedong LOST??? omg, Flash is left alone... i predict its gonna be a Flash vs Stork final again. anyone?
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On December 01 2008 14:10 Manit0u wrote:I tell you guys, the finals will be Mind vs Free
I will peel off my testicles if this happens. pls check brackets.
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On December 01 2008 14:16 MrHoon wrote:
Map Pool = Better for Protoss
When Flash got into the scene = 6 wins on the INFAMOUS KATRINA! (ONLY TERRAN TO DO THIS)
When flash broke into the scene = GSI
Current Era = Protoss Era
Terran's last hope against protoss = Flash
Flash Build = Destroys all protoss except if they go carrier build which gets undetected.
Flash = Carrier Killer, and gave Stork 2 silvers.
LETZ GO FLASH MAKE SOME PROTOSS BITCHES CRY
Im with you there. I want Flash to tear up all the toss that comes his way except for Stork. Stork will be GSL Champ as long as either Mind or Free beats Kal
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domination doesn't exist anymore. its too competitive
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Bisu and Jangbi for finals! (again)
you know it's gonna happen
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mmmm zergfail. my favorite
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Best vs xxx for the finals ?
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OMFG what the heck is happening Jaedong?!? :-( I'm so sad at your recent loses it's just painful... Not really that much JD action left so guess it's almost end of season for me.
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I hope Effort ends up practiseing only for 1 MU and rapes the shit out of all tosses ...
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On December 01 2008 00:48 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 22:31 Hyperionnn wrote:
Sea's SL history (Ro16s only)
Shinhan1 Yarnc
Shinhan2 GoRush
Gomtv s2 GoRush
Gomtv s4 Light
Bacchus sAviOr (won) Jaedong Best
Arena fOrGG
Ever2008 Flash Rock GGPlay (won) (Even Rock beat him lol)
Incruit Stork BackHo (won) Fantasy
I don't think that he lost to "bad" players.
And in addition, Rock managed to see Ro8 three times, Sea did not still managed to get past ro16. The thing is you have to take into account how good each player is. Rock is a career 46% player. Sea[Shield] is a career 63% player. So Sea losing to those players is choking. Rock losing to player like these is expected.
You fail so hard that i can not even explain you lol. Sea's ratio comes from noobbashing some guys in PL and qualify tournaments,when he faces first good player in a SL, he fails and everybody say he "chokes", no he is not that good. Sea is massively overrated, face it.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On December 02 2008 00:09 Hyperionnn wrote:
You fail so hard that i can not even explain you lol. Sea's ratio comes from noobbashing some guys in PL and qualify tournaments,when he faces first good player in a SL, he fails and everybody say he "chokes", no he is not that good. Sea is massively overrated, face it.
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Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
On December 02 2008 00:09 Hyperionnn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 00:48 baubo wrote:On November 30 2008 22:31 Hyperionnn wrote:
Sea's SL history (Ro16s only)
Shinhan1 Yarnc
Shinhan2 GoRush
Gomtv s2 GoRush
Gomtv s4 Light
Bacchus sAviOr (won) Jaedong Best
Arena fOrGG
Ever2008 Flash Rock GGPlay (won) (Even Rock beat him lol)
Incruit Stork BackHo (won) Fantasy
I don't think that he lost to "bad" players.
And in addition, Rock managed to see Ro8 three times, Sea did not still managed to get past ro16. The thing is you have to take into account how good each player is. Rock is a career 46% player. Sea[Shield] is a career 63% player. So Sea losing to those players is choking. Rock losing to player like these is expected. You fail so hard that i can not even explain you lol. Sea's ratio comes from noobbashing some guys in PL and qualify tournaments,when he faces first good player in a SL, he fails and everybody say he "chokes", no he is not that good. Sea is massively overrated, face it.
May god have mercy on your soul if fakesteve reads this...
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Flash vs. Best finals...
Flash, you better rape the shit outa these tosses... cause theres no more zergs :D:D:D
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On December 02 2008 10:23 tozi wrote:
Flash vs. Best finals...
Flash, you better rape the shit outa these tosses... cause theres no more zergs :D:D:D
Cant happen, mabey in the ro4 but not finals
On December 02 2008 00:09 Hyperionnn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 00:48 baubo wrote:On November 30 2008 22:31 Hyperionnn wrote:
Sea's SL history (Ro16s only)
Shinhan1 Yarnc
Shinhan2 GoRush
Gomtv s2 GoRush
Gomtv s4 Light
Bacchus sAviOr (won) Jaedong Best
Arena fOrGG
Ever2008 Flash Rock GGPlay (won) (Even Rock beat him lol)
Incruit Stork BackHo (won) Fantasy
I don't think that he lost to "bad" players.
And in addition, Rock managed to see Ro8 three times, Sea did not still managed to get past ro16. The thing is you have to take into account how good each player is. Rock is a career 46% player. Sea[Shield] is a career 63% player. So Sea losing to those players is choking. Rock losing to player like these is expected. You fail so hard that i can not even explain you lol. Sea's ratio comes from noobbashing some guys in PL and qualify tournaments,when he faces first good player in a SL, he fails and everybody say he "chokes", no he is not that good. Sea is massively overrated, face it.
Oh god, your screwed if Fakesteve reads this
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hmm... yea, your rite.
so imma guessing a flash vs. stork finals... (please flash... only one matchup to practice for the gomtv)
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United States17042 Posts
On December 02 2008 00:09 Hyperionnn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 00:48 baubo wrote:On November 30 2008 22:31 Hyperionnn wrote:
Sea's SL history (Ro16s only)
Shinhan1 Yarnc
Shinhan2 GoRush
Gomtv s2 GoRush
Gomtv s4 Light
Bacchus sAviOr (won) Jaedong Best
Arena fOrGG
Ever2008 Flash Rock GGPlay (won) (Even Rock beat him lol)
Incruit Stork BackHo (won) Fantasy
I don't think that he lost to "bad" players.
And in addition, Rock managed to see Ro8 three times, Sea did not still managed to get past ro16. The thing is you have to take into account how good each player is. Rock is a career 46% player. Sea[Shield] is a career 63% player. So Sea losing to those players is choking. Rock losing to player like these is expected. You fail so hard that i can not even explain you lol. Sea's ratio comes from noobbashing some guys in PL and qualify tournaments,when he faces first good player in a SL, he fails and everybody say he "chokes", no he is not that good. Sea is massively overrated, face it.
run from fakesteve. quickly
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1769/jaedongbanner1hw2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2593/backhoia2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/4927/viewcgi011644288rj4.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5435/viewcgi012611020ms4.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3964/viewcgi012625420jp1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2695/viewcgi013061386mo7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4637/viewcgi013247386yd6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u106/jodogohoo/1a2a3a4a.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i33.tinypic.com/33vje6f.jpg)
