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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/pachi/banner/SPL_080930.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/1.jpg) ________![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/5.jpg) SKTT1::::VS::::STX  Bisu < Colosseum II >  by.hero Midas < Harmony > HwasinRumble < RaiD Assault 2 > CalmBeSt < Chupung-Ryeong > KalCloser < Destination > Closer Odds/Interesting Facts + Show Spoiler + How to watch? 1. Daum Sports 2. Daum Player 3. Yaoyuan | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
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DownMaxX
Canada1311 Posts
 SKT1 has to get my vote here. | ||
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SingletonWilliam
United States664 Posts
Oh well Best vs. Kal should be semi-decent. with Best being amazing PvP and Kal being average. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
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Ozarugold
2716 Posts
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Ideas
United States8104 Posts
Bisu > by.hero ( I love watching bisu lose to Zs but I don't see by.hero beating anyone but boxer) Midas < Hwasn (Hwasin is TvT godness) rumble < Calm (calm is on STX and I like STX) best > Kal (Kal is way cooler than best but best is best :\) ace match: Best < July (because July is awesome) | ||
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mog87
United States1586 Posts
Midas(could go either way) Calm(but who really cares either way) Best Midas (i doubt it goes that far) | ||
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Nitan
United States3401 Posts
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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vAltyR
United States581 Posts
On October 19 2008 10:19 xenero wrote: Dang, Best has the second highest odds I've ever seen, and against a good player like Kal too. Imagine if Kal won, this could be a glimpse of how hard Best is training for the OSL. Last I checked, Best is training for a PvP against Stork. I think that would help his chances in a PvP against Kal. It'll be the same matchup. I'm calling Best on this one. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
On October 19 2008 11:59 vAltyR wrote: Last I checked, Best is training for a PvP against Stork. I think that would help his chances in a PvP against Kal. It'll be the same matchup. I'm calling Best on this one. ...ok? I did say Best was training for PvP. I just want to see if he performs even more godly. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
btw reading the interesting facts post... how is kals and hwasin win % so bad? im lookin at loses and their stats but i dont c how kal is 25% and hwasin is at 42% | ||
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DownMaxX
Canada1311 Posts
On October 19 2008 12:30 sung_moon wrote: pretty sure its going to stx in ace. bets on calm/midas ace....watch it btw reading the interesting facts post... how is kals and hwasin win % so bad? im lookin at loses and their stats but i dont c how kal is 25% and hwasin is at 42% It's the percentage chance that they will beat their opponent. Midas has a better win chance than Hwasin based on historic stats; he has a higher win % against Terran than Hwasin does.. and Kal is at 25% because BeSt has an 83% win record against Protoss.  | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
On October 19 2008 12:30 sung_moon wrote: pretty sure its going to stx in ace. bets on calm/midas ace....watch it btw reading the interesting facts post... how is kals and hwasin win % so bad? im lookin at loses and their stats but i dont c how kal is 25% and hwasin is at 42% Kal's PvP is his only MU with a below 50% win ratio and he recently lost twice in that matchup in the same proleague set. Best's PvP is the most successful in the history of Starcraft, 14 win streak, if you don't know this, ><. Check it out, it's unreal. As for Hwasin, I guess it's that way since Hwasin has never been outstanding in this matchup. He's good, but not awesome. However his recent schooling of his MSL group does make me question this a little as well. Midas is just good. | ||
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anch
United States5457 Posts
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On October 19 2008 12:39 DownMaxX wrote: It's the percentage chance that they will beat their opponent. Midas has a better win chance than Hwasin based on historic stats; he has a higher win % against Terran than Hwasin does.. and Kal is at 25% because BeSt has an 83% win record against Protoss. i swear im half retarded...didnt realize those thats the percentage of win ratio...i thought they were all-time/matchup stats | ||
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Yaqoob
Canada3328 Posts
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mog87
United States1586 Posts
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
good mirror match ups gogo! | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
I think SKT1 will probably win this 3-1. If it goes to the Ace match it could go either way, but will depend mostly on the draw. It'll be a rock paper scissors of who picks the player that's capable of dominating the other. | ||
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Initial_H.C.
Canada560 Posts
Midas vs Hwasin will be a good match Rumble vs Calm will be a close one Best > Kal [i hope this shows Best is still capable of PvP despite the lack of PvP games] Ace: Fantasy > July =D but if they send out Hyuk again Hyuk < July -__- | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
Maybe it'll be possible to a standard formula for the site..maybe? | ||
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
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Juanpe
Uruguay283 Posts
http://sportslive.media.daum.net/live_tiny/player.jsp?channel=MBCGAME&league=ESPORTS&game=ESPORTS2008101902&home=T1&away=SL http://sportslive.media.daum.net/live_tiny/player.jsp?channel=MBCGAME&league=ESPORTS&game=ESPORTS2008101902&home=T1&away=SL http://sportslive.media.daum.net/live_tiny/player.jsp?channel=MBCGAME&league=ESPORTS&game=ESPORTS2008101902&home=T1&away=SL | ||
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
I caught the end of it I think | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
We really need this one... Is there interest in live reporting? I can hook it up. | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
Hwasin Rumble BeSt T1 3-1 | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
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Darth Peter
Romania438 Posts
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mog87
United States1586 Posts
On October 19 2008 14:12 jwd241224 wrote: lol, I just realized by.hero was definitely a snipe for BeSt. Props to the T1 coaches for mixing it up and playing Bisu on Colosseum this time. I Dunno about that wouldnt they have sent july if that was the case...and either way best isnt god awful at pvz to lose to someone who has 0 zvp wins. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
On October 19 2008 14:18 mog87 wrote: I Dunno about that wouldnt they have sent july if that was the case...and either way best isnt god awful at pvz to lose to someone who has 0 zvp wins. 5pool says hai | ||
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mog87
United States1586 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
Taekyong GO | ||
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darkmetal505
United States639 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
I have a feeling the Zerg's eco can't keep this up forever, though. | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3809 Posts
Not so good huh? Maybe think you should switch to something else sometime? | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
<3 Bisu | ||
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jyhlol
243 Posts
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mog87
United States1586 Posts
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
1-0 T1 yes! | ||
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darkmetal505
United States639 Posts
zerg ggs | ||
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Dr.Dragoon
United States1241 Posts
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BanZu
United States3329 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
On October 19 2008 14:34 xenero wrote: Hero seems promising, just needs to focus more and gain experience. if u say so i didnt see to much promise tonight | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
On October 19 2008 14:33 Dr.Dragoon wrote: Wow, how many times did Bisu slip zealots into hero's drone line? about six times | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
On October 19 2008 14:37 Kuja900 wrote: if u say so i didnt see to much promise tonight He lacks multitasking but he put up a good early fight against the master of PvZ. If he had continued ferrying units into Bisu's base, the game would've been more entertaining. | ||
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inlagdsil
Canada957 Posts
On October 19 2008 14:34 BanZu wrote: Anyone else have problems with the stream? I've never seen it so laggy before T___T Major problems. I would get the picture for a few seconds, then it would freeze and just the sound would continue. | ||
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KreaGata
United States1702 Posts
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Nitan
United States3401 Posts
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
Midas @ 5 | ||
LosingID8
CA10828 Posts
AHHHH AHHHH AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! | ||
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
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Darth Peter
Romania438 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
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jyhlol
243 Posts
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KreaGata
United States1702 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On October 19 2008 14:53 jyhlol wrote: fuck yes hwasin. now we can see best manhandle toss lol, that's one way to look at it. My predictions are holding strong so far....now GOGO Rumble!! Fun fact: T1 Zergs are 0-6 this season. Hyuk 0-4 (including ace game loss to Sea.Really) Rumble 0-1 GoRush 0-1 | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
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o[twist]
United States4903 Posts
Also there was a ridiculously successful vulture raid by Hwasin. | ||
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Darth Peter
Romania438 Posts
Yes. Midas choked. | ||
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jyhlol
243 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On October 19 2008 14:55 xenero wrote: Can anyone give a description as to what happened? midas' proxy factory was scouted. after that it was pretty much over | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/4Proleague/New_Proleague.png) | ||
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
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jyhlol
243 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:01 Aux1 wrote: lol @ the water commercial. drink this water and girls will dance and strip ! That's Dynamic Water for ya | ||
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
yaoyuan is showing ogn vs ace | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:04 GinNtoniC wrote: you guys watching this on daum player or daum sports? yaoyuan is showing ogn vs ace daum sports, the daum player has been terrible for me lately. idk why | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:04 GinNtoniC wrote: you guys watching this on daum player or daum sports? yaoyuan is showing ogn vs ace Daum Sports: http://sportslive.media.daum.net/live_tiny/player.jsp?channel=MBCGAME&league=ESPORTS&game=ESPORTS2008101902&home=T1&away=SL | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:01 Hot_Bid wrote: guys i made a new proleague banner i think it's appropriate for this season: + Show Spoiler + LOL I wish hero would have made some lurks vs Bisu's 1000000 zealot army first game. :/ Hydra control would have helped too. But I guess he played a lot better than I expected, at least gave him a bit of a challenge. | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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KreaGata
United States1702 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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KreaGata
United States1702 Posts
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
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Nitan
United States3401 Posts
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:05 Fontong wrote: daum sports, the daum player has been terrible for me lately. idk why yeah, same for me, daum player is a mess. Daum sports won't even stream for me though, so I guess it's back to bed. Thanks though! edit: ah lol, wrong channel. had osl+leagues, had to change that to MBC stream. Back online, cheers! | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
Edit: I meant the opposite of what it says. loLe | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
well into the Ace match. Best will show his godly PvP... | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
Looks like we'll go to ace match unless Best has a stroke midgame, lol. | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:18 Fontong wrote: From what I've seen of this map's ZvZs so far, the greedy builds have a serious advantage. If by "greedy" you mean economy-seeking (as it's usually used in the SC context) then that's definitely not the case, Rumble had the much more macro-friendly build in this game. | ||
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fw
Korea (South)1201 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:20 jwd241224 wrote: If by "greedy" you mean economy-seeking (as it's usually used in the SC context) then that's definitely not the case, Rumble had the much more macro-friendly build in this game. Ehh, ohh yeah srry. I meant the opposite. Now I'm just comfused, I think I should have used 'hungry' instead.? | ||
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Bond(i2)
Canada926 Posts
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32274 Posts
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ScarFace
United States1175 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:26 Fontong wrote: Ehh, ohh yeah srry. I meant the opposite. Now I'm just comfused, I think I should have used 'hungry' instead.? Just stick to "aggressive" I think . | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
Yellow = Kal | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:28 ScarFace wrote: who's who, I missed it BeSt is the one with 200/200 | ||
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:19 LunarDestiny wrote: I was shocked when Calm killed 4 of his lings... but then... well into the Ace match. Best will show his godly PvP... you realize he did this to free psi for mutas right? | ||
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ScarFace
United States1175 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:31 jwd241224 wrote: Gah, now the Sportslive stream is lagging like hell really? mine's fine. it looks great | ||
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o[twist]
United States4903 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
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ScarFace
United States1175 Posts
1) humiliated 2) huge morale disadvantage against stork speak of the devil..kal rapes his economy nvm less damage than I thought | ||
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:34 ScarFace wrote: on a side note, if Kal does win this...well go kal, but best will 1) humiliated 2) huge morale disadvantage against stork speak of the devil..kal rapes his economy rape might be a bit strong...he killed a few probes edit: and best's exp was up and running before kal's, I'd say their pretty even which has to favor best | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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ScarFace
United States1175 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:38 EtherealDeath wrote: so who is ahead right now? seems like Kal is | ||
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:38 EtherealDeath wrote: so who is ahead right now? It seems fairly even, both players have nats up and doing standard build up. Kal has gotten a few probe kills, it hasn't been more than probably 6. Considering that Bests macro is soo good, this probably wont matter in the end. wait wtf, best just suicided 4 zlots | ||
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:40 Fontong wrote: It seems fairly even, both players have nats up and doing standard build up. Kal has gotten a few probe kills, it hasn't been more than probably 6. Considering that Bests macro is soo good, this probably wont matter in the end. wait wtf, best just suicided 4 zlots lol oh noes demoralization incoming for best? T_T | ||
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
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Patrio
Norway706 Posts
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ScarFace
United States1175 Posts
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
attacking as kal is expoing | ||
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:41 foodontable wrote: WOW HUGE BATTLE IN MIDDLE AND BEST DESTROYS KAL'S ARMY sekki of a dead zealot? | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
proxy DT kills all of bests natural probes though | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:42 Fontong wrote: omg, huge battle best comes out wayyy ahead proxy DT kills all of bests natural probes though awww FUCK now that u mention the second part | ||
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:42 Vivi57 wrote: Lucky timing from best attacking as kal is expoing stupid timing by kal, moving out while he is expoing | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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Patrio
Norway706 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
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BreaK
Canada890 Posts
Oh wait... he won. It would have been pretty witty if he didn't though. | ||
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rosas
Philippines66 Posts
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
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Samurai-
Slovenia2035 Posts
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fw
Korea (South)1201 Posts
best just showed his magic. | ||
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Dr.Dragoon
United States1241 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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jyhlol
243 Posts
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mog87
United States1586 Posts
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Nitan
United States3401 Posts
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
"You can kill half my probes but I'll still win" | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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o[twist]
United States4903 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
THIS IS BEST WWWAAAAAAA 15 15 15 | ||
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ScarFace
United States1175 Posts
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BanZu
United States3329 Posts
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
From Kal: Successful Reaver drop Sniping all infiltrating observers Being ahead in expansions all game Being ahead in tech all game (until templar archives) A hero DT taking out ALL BeSt's probes at his natural From BeSt: Wasting/throwing away 6-7 zealots to Kal in a critical macro-stage Not doing any harassment damage until last minute Mismicroing his reavers in the big clash And generally BeSt felt so damn sloppy all game; - With his first zealot - With the positioning against the incoming reaver - With leaving his observers unguarded - General feeling of mine throughout the entire early/early-mid game ///And still he just fucking STEAMROLLED Kal. BeSt is such a fucking sick macro machine it isn't even funny anymore | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
best: "I'll spot you the probes at my natural and still win." | ||
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
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imDerek
United States1944 Posts
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
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raiame
United States421 Posts
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mrhilton
34 Posts
stork won't give away an advantage like that | ||
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
Bisu > Hero Midas < Hwasin Rumble < Calm Best > Kal | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:46 Jaeden wrote: so...would anyone be so kindly and tell me the results so far ? PLEASE Bisu > hero Midas < Hwasin Rumble < Calm BeSt >>>>>OWN>>>> Kal | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:47 jwd241224 wrote: Bisu > hero Midas < Hwasin Rumble < Calm BeSt >>>>>OWN>>>> Kal TY, sir | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:46 mrhilton wrote: best didn't convince me in this one! How about the 14 before this one? NAH, just the fanboys. | ||
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nerium
Philippines512 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:45 ScarFace wrote: I dont know why you are all complimenting his storms, best beat kals army because his 4 reavers didn't fire until the battle was nearly over... his entire army was out of position for the majority of the fight, it was embarrassing, and I'm a kal fan. I was thinking the same thing, the camera was focused on those 4 reavers of kal during the mid fight. They only fired like 3-4 shots, or something like that.... | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
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CyuntiyuL
Canada1740 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:46 Jaeden wrote: so...would anyone be so kindly and tell me the results so far ? PLEASE (P)Bisu > (Z)by.hero (T)Midas < (T)Hwasin (Z)Rumble < (Z)Calm (P)BeSt > (P)Kal | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
AAAAAAHHHHH *brain explodes* | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:46 mrhilton wrote: best didn't convince me in this one! only fanboys cheering here... stork won't give away an advantage like that 28-5 not very convincing? | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
not as much when 2 of those losses from stork | ||
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
did you watch the game? kal lost it stupidly, he shouldnt have moved out,and when he did he had HORRIBLE army positioning. best didnt outplay him | ||
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ii.blitzkrieg
Canada1122 Posts
but I am fucking PUMPED for Best vs Stork | ||
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
Hope they don't fuck it up by sending someone retarted like hyuk. | ||
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foodontable
China341 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:50 Kuja900 wrote: not as much when 2 of those losses from stork Which was before he started his PvP rampage. | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:50 Kuja900 wrote: not as much when 2 of those losses from stork Last year. | ||
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o[twist]
United States4903 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
STX should probably send a zerg. Best might be our PvP god, but he's also the zergbait toss. Then again, July doesn't really perform in PL. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:45 Aux1 wrote: i think kal lost a won game...why he moved out when he just killed like 20 probes makes no sense whatsoever..let your macro just rape his after that since its 2base vs 2base Kal was winning, but best's attack timing was one in a hundred. Best pushed into Kal's space and forced him to drop his reavers in a clump, which promptly got stormed to hell. His attack timing won him the game. EDIT: Shit, canata vs julllllllly~~~ | ||
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
against july | ||
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Bond(i2)
Canada926 Posts
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MarF
Canada156 Posts
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jyhlol
243 Posts
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drftsx
United States152 Posts
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:52 .risingdragoon wrote: Kal was winning, but best's attack timing was one in a hundred. Best pushed into Kal's space and forced him to drop his reavers in a clump, which promptly got stormed to hell. His attack timing won him the game. It wasn't even a timing attack He'd lost so many probes, he was forced to allin and got lucky. | ||
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ScarFace
United States1175 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:48 jwd241224 wrote: well to be honest, NO ONE disputes best is an amazing pvp, but whats really critical is the shape he shows in the few weeks leading up to an important series. He normally looks *very* good, but he didn't win this game. Kal lost it due to incredibly poor micro, best didn't give his best game to say the least.How about the 14 before this one? NAH, just the fanboys. | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
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fw
Korea (South)1201 Posts
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o[twist]
United States4903 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:52 .risingdragoon wrote: Kal was winning, but best's attack timing was one in a hundred. Best pushed into Kal's space and forced him to drop his reavers in a clump, which promptly got stormed to hell. His attack timing won him the game. EDIT: Shit, canata vs julllllllly~~~ no kal made a horrible decision to move from his safe position and he had terrible army positioning when the attack occurred | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
July for STX and an unknown terran for SKT... | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:54 o[twist] wrote: Should definitely have been Fantasy. he was probably busing preparing for osl | ||
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Bond(i2)
Canada926 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:53 Vivi57 wrote: It wasn't even a timing attack He'd lost so many probes, he was forced to allin and got lucky. Yeah I agree with this. Best really didn't have any other options at this point. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:45 Vivi57 wrote: It wasn't even a timing attack He'd lost so many probes, he was forced to allin and got lucky. Yea well, even allin has good timing and bad timing. Attacking someone when he's not in formation is hella good timing. | ||
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404.Nintu
Canada1723 Posts
I look to the right, and let's just say... July's outline didn't leave much to the imagination. | ||
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:53 Vivi57 wrote: It wasn't even a timing attack He'd lost so many probes, he was forced to allin and got lucky. Do you really think there's much luck at play in a straight up micro battle at this level? Whether Kal blew it or BeSt did especially well is irrelevant - either way, BeSt was the better player. Now, GO Canata! | ||
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Realpenguin
8253 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:54 LunarDestiny wrote: In the shadow... (fat boy figure)... July for STX and an unknown terran for SKT... Canata isn't unknown. He's a TvT sniper for SKT. | ||
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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mog87
United States1586 Posts
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:51 o[twist] wrote: Kal should have won that easily, the points about reaver positioning, expo timing, etc. were all valid. Exactly. He should have - but he didn't. Yes, Kal's army positioning moving in there was bad. The decision itself to move in there was bad. I mean, he had just massacred all of BeSt's natural probes. That's a position where you want to sit back and macro up a huge army/add a lot of gates, defense, expansions etc, when your opponent will struggle to replace his probes. The entire decision by Kal to attack was bad (and gave BeSt a chance to counterattack before Kal's now superior economy could replenish his forces), except one small detail; it distracted BeSt from looking at his natural where the DT was. But I mean, that little detail did not justify attacking there. STILL, the amount of units BeSt threw into that fight was bloody sick. And the amount he streamed out afterwards, despite the huge loss in probes, was breathtaking. I'm astonished. | ||
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:55 .risingdragoon wrote: Yea well, even allin has good timing and bad timing. Attacking someone when he's not in formation is hella good timing. lol? how is happening to run into kal in the middle of the map exceptionally good timing | ||
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:55 jwd241224 wrote: Do you really think there's much luck at play in a straight up micro battle at this level? Whether Kal blew it or BeSt did especially well is irrelevant - either way, BeSt was the better player. Now, GO Canata! No, but there is luck that your opponent happens to be expanding at the time you lose half your probes and are forced to allin. | ||
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
Yeah, I think we really would have seen him out otherwise. Canata has been underperforming as of late even in his capacity as a sniper. | ||
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Dr.Dragoon
United States1241 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:57 Plutonium wrote: I think SKT made a good choice with Canata, they should have expected July to go out to try and snipe Best or Bisu. sending a zerg to snipe bisu probably isnt very wise............ | ||
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:55 .risingdragoon wrote: Yea well, even allin has good timing and bad timing. Attacking someone when he's not in formation is hella good timing. the thing is, BeSt didn't really attack Kal sent his forces down from the high ground to get attacked/attack himself It was all so weird. | ||
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:58 Dr.Dragoon wrote: Kal's choice to move out isn't really a bad one from that situation, but he had poor positioning and underestimated BeSt's army, so he got rolled. Now all of you stop ruining my hype for ace match! how is it not a bad decision? if he stays on the cliff and wins that one attack he wins the game with ease | ||
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ScarFace
United States1175 Posts
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:59 Aux1 wrote: how is it not a bad decision? if he stays on the cliff and wins that one attack he wins the game with ease exactly. | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
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Vasoline73
United States7801 Posts
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:58 Aux1 wrote: sending a zerg to snipe bisu probably isnt very wise............ July is 3-2 against Bisu, and recently won an OSL on the strength of his ZvP. | ||
MrHoon
10183 Posts
Skt thinks Hwasin, so they send Canata to snipe STX thinks Best/Bisu, so they send July to snipe So now we get an awkward match | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:00 ScarFace wrote: to be honest, canata is not that bad in tvz, and July was very very unimpressive against Flash. I'd be surprised if he won this. july went for a crazy build against flash, we havent seen him straightup zvt in while due to lack of him playing the match | ||
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
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KreaGata
United States1702 Posts
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:01 MrHoon wrote: this is what happend Skt thinks Hwasin, so they send Canata to snipe STX thinks Best/Bisu, so they send July to snipe So now we get an awkward match agreed | ||
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:00 Kuja900 wrote: i disagree with you plutonium i think canata was sent out hoping to snipe hwasin Nah I don't think STX wants to send out Hwasin as ace atm; as little as SKT wants to send Bisu/BeSt. Those are way too focused on their Starleagues atm/wouldn't want them revealing builds either | ||
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:01 Plutonium wrote: July is 3-2 against Bisu, and has probably the most solid ZvP out there. yeas ur right...just that I think JD's ZvP > July's ZvP...but still, July was put on ace to snipe a protoss, that`s for sure | ||
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Dr.Dragoon
United States1241 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:59 Aux1 wrote: how is it not a bad decision? if he stays on the cliff and wins that one attack he wins the game with ease Didn't Kal move out before he saw BeSt attacking? It's easy to talk from a spectator perspective with hindsight bias helping you. Maybe Kal was worried that BeSt could even up the game with a good HT drop, and wanted to attack him while he was dealing with the DT. It would lower his chances of him noticing the DT, and if he did, he wouldn't be able to micro his army very well. Even if the fight broke even, Kal would storm way ahead and just end it. Or just wait, whatever. | ||
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:01 Plutonium wrote: July is 3-2 against Bisu, and recently won an OSL on the strength of his ZvP. true but bisu has been playing great lately, but id say its definitely likely they sent a zerg to play best. | ||
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
canata at 5 mech vs 12 hatch gas before pool mech vs 2 hatch mutas... | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
Godly APM vs ungodly APM... | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On October 19 2008 15:56 Aux1 wrote: lol? how is happening to run into kal in the middle of the map exceptionally good timing Listen well: In PvP good formation can save you units in a head on fight. Reavers 2-shot dragoons, but if they can be made to fire just once fewer, that makes the world of difference in a PvP. That's what Best's timing did to Kal's reaver heavy army. He took out his knockout punch. I'm not even a fan of skt, but I've seen this kind of timing from best once too many already. Give the guy his due mofo. | ||
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:03 Dr.Dragoon wrote: Didn't Kal move out before he saw BeSt attacking? It's easy to talk from a spectator perspective with hindsight bias helping you. Maybe Kal was worried that BeSt could even up the game with a good HT drop, and wanted to attack him while he was dealing with the DT. It would lower his chances of him noticing the DT, and if he did, he wouldn't be able to micro his army very well. Even if the fight broke even, Kal would storm way ahead and just end it. Or just wait, whatever. at that point in the game best's only option after losing all of those probes is to attack and go all in, i would have expected kal to realize this and play safe in order to ensure a victory | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:05 .risingdragoon wrote: Listen well: In PvP good formation can save you units in a head on fight. Reavers 2-shot dragoons, but if they can be made to fire just once fewer, that makes the world of difference in a PvP. That's what Best's timing did to Kal's reaver heavy army. He took out his knockout punch. I'm not even a fan of skt, but I've seen this kind of timing from best once too many already. Give the guy his due mofo. kal's reavers didnt fire because of his horrible positioning. what the fuck dont you get? | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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nerium
Philippines512 Posts
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
, so any LRs would be GREATLY appreciated | ||
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Dr.Dragoon
United States1241 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:05 Aux1 wrote: at that point in the game best's only option after losing all of those probes is to attack and go all in, i would have expected kal to realize this and play safe in order to ensure a victory BeSt had more options. | ||
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
you're right, his other option was to lose | ||
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raiame
United States421 Posts
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
More options with 1 base of probes vs 2.5 bases of probes? | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
EDIT: nvm no starport, just goli | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
I don't think July is prepared for this MU at all. | ||
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32274 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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Dr.Dragoon
United States1241 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:07 Vivi57 wrote: More options with 1 base of probes vs 2.5 bases of probes? Attacking the opponent with just probes is also an option. | ||
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:08 .risingdragoon wrote: shiiit, he's doing OOV's new build OOV's? you mean fantasy's? unless i'm totally confused- what would oov's new build be, seeing that he's retired... | ||
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o[twist]
United States4903 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
DIE FATTY DIE | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:10 jwd241224 wrote: WTF is july doing anyway....2-hatch muta-hydra? What is this garbage? I guess July`s lost | ||
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
canata gets a free scout | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
not oov's build after all | ||
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:11 .risingdragoon wrote: factory units only, no port expand not oov's build after all oovs? | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:12 jwd241224 wrote: Now adding 2 evo chambers? Major WTF Oh, I guess July is just going mass hydra now. | ||
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
not sure if sci facility is out for canata | ||
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
mass hydra takes out canata's army | ||
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nerium
Philippines512 Posts
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Descent
1244 Posts
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
GG | ||
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
Hydra cheat? | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:16 MrHoon wrote: Oh god is this the 2nd anti-mech build next to EXPAND EVERYWHEREEE uh no? it was a gameplay mistake not a build mistake. Mass hydras is shit vs metal. | ||
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LxRogue
United States1415 Posts
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BanZu
United States3329 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
It's officially a trend! | ||
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:17 LxRogue wrote: Canata: "Shit, wait, July plays zerg? I swore this was TvT!" It's okay, july looks like he thought Canata played protoss ><;; | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
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nerium
Philippines512 Posts
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
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raiame
United States421 Posts
=[ | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7801 Posts
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
Canata:'( SKT1 | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
GG! | ||
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foodontable
China341 Posts
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Descent
1244 Posts
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
july didn't build anything but hydras and mutas all game | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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nerium
Philippines512 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
JULY BABY!!! His army control's just too smooth. | ||
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ssystem
United Kingdom337 Posts
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
Canata looks like he's going to cry. | ||
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
TERRAN METAL? FUCK, LET'S GO MASS HYDRAS! JULY FEASTS ON YOUR TEARS CANATA! | ||
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nerium
Philippines512 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:21 Vivi57 wrote: holy crap july didn't build anything but hydras and mutas all game Hydras are really cost effective against metal, just consider the cost of a hydra compared to that of a tank or goliath. It was kind of old school though, wasn't it? | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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imDerek
United States1944 Posts
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KreaGata
United States1702 Posts
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
LOLOLOLOLOLLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Honestly, the coach of SKT did say "Our main focus this season is indi-leagues rather than the proleague" And cmon, its SKT. | ||
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Nitan
United States3401 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:21 Jaeden wrote: I think this is the last time I vote for SKT ... Sigh... Not for me. I'll keep believing. | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
/FACEPALM | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:21 Aux1 wrote: lol how did canata manage to lose this? july had some great flanks, but god damn canata was far ahead Clearly, he never really was far ahead. July had it all planned out in his head. July's kind of an old player- As other people have said, it looked like an old school game from him. | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:23 jwd241224 wrote: [image blocked] /FACEPALM Awesome Screenshot. That's how every T feels now that July has shown the way xD | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
Why not the usual M&M power... | ||
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
Midas needs to step it up again. | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:21 Vivi57 wrote: holy crap july didn't build anything but hydras and mutas all game that's how you beat metal, ask day[9] | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:23 LunarDestiny wrote: Can anyone explain to me this Mech vs zerg... Why not the usual M&M power... Go read day[9]'s post on it in the Final edit section- it's pretty good at explaining how it changes tvz | ||
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
well...I`m not an SKT fan, but they just keep losing | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:23 waterGHOSTCLAWdragon wrote: Awesome Screenshot. That's how every T feels now that July has shown the way xD That's garbage. Canata didn't go Fantasy/Oov metal, he just went metal and lost. But Canata's a terrible choice for ace. Poor SKT1. They hold, like, all the cards too. All of them. | ||
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:23 waterGHOSTCLAWdragon wrote: Clearly, he never really was far ahead. July had it all planned out in his head. July's kind of an old player- As other people have said, it looked like an old school game from him. uh, he was far ahead. he killed over half of july's drones early in the game, he lost bwcause he waited too long to attack and allowed july to mass drone | ||
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economist_
Vietnam719 Posts
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:22 Fontong wrote: Hydras are really cost effective against metal, just consider the cost of a hydra compared to that of a tank or goliath. It was kind of old school though, wasn't it? Actually hydras are only good if you can reach the tanks. July spread his hydras really nicely and killed tanks first each time. | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
SKT terrans raping zergs with their new in-house metal build? HYDRALISK SMASH! TUSHIN = ANTI-REVOLUTIONIST! | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:25 thunk wrote: That's garbage. Canata didn't go Fantasy/Oov metal, he just went metal and lost. But Canata's a terrible choice for ace. Poor SKT1. They hold, like, all the cards too. All of them. Canata went metal, and out of all the zerg players, July would be the old school player that I would pick to be able to defeat metal (in general). Jaedong/luxury would be my other 2 picks, but we didn't see them adapt and beat it. Canata didn't execute as well as he should have though- he basically ended up giving that win to july. | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
I think SKT1's dearth of good zergs and good zerg practice partners is really hurting their team. Hyuk is the worst in the league right now in win-loss ratio and GoRush is washed up. Rumble needs to get better. | ||
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
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Harem
United States11390 Posts
Fuck yeah | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
The only good news is that the maps in the pool are tending to be against zerg. So SKT1 should be better off than any other team just because of the map pool ><;; | ||
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:22 Fontong wrote: Hydras are really cost effective against metal, just consider the cost of a hydra compared to that of a tank or goliath. It was kind of old school though, wasn't it? Well, that's kind of the thing. A lot of new players (zergs) have mostly (say 95% of the time) been playing against standard M&M builds. It's one of the advantages that keeps shining through with July over and over. He doesn't get surprised/thrown off his game by nonstandard builds. Same when he played Mind on Hwarangdo in EVER this spring. Mind went for a vulture-->goliath mech if I remember correctly, and got completely shredded by July. A pretty low-econ build for a pretty low-econ map - worked perfectly. Same with how he handled corsair/reaver in th ever so famous g3 against BeSt in the osl finals. A lot of people would be taken off their game by corsair/reaver. July is as comfortable as ever against it. He's been around for too long to be taken off guard by most builds and he doesn't choke when faced with something unorthodox. He simply knows how to adapt. I think the best way to tackle him is just to play the build you feel the most comfortable with and outplay him by superior mechanics. I think someone like Hwasin or Sea would overpower him on a map like Othello or Medusa with an M&M build. Their mechanics are just so solid in that build I think July wouldn't be able to handle it. But then again, what do I know? July hasn't been playing an awful lot of ZvT lately to give a good picture of how his play is against M&M. The game against Flash last month was not a good example. He just went mass mutas and overcommited. Doesn't really tell anything. | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
Btw, lifetime stats mean nothing. GoRush is like 55% or something and he's useless in proleague. You'd think that Hyuk would be really useful on the ZvZ that always occurs on Raid Assault II but he gets sniped. Twice, IIRC. | ||
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
Remember when Estro had 2 wins in a row and proceeded to lose 14 in a row next? SKT will pick up, and I agree Teams without a good zerg player tend to do poorly Too bad SKT didn't buy Luxury when they had the chance, it could've pulled them up to the top | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
Although July might not have the mechanics of the newer players, his experience really makes him fun to watch. Same as all of the older players and exemplified by Boxer. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:06 Aux1 wrote: kal's reavers didnt fire because of his horrible positioning. what the fuck dont you get? Are you an idiot? He was in horrible position cus he was forced into it. More than 2 reavers/1 shuttle and it's too much to shuttle micro them, so people tend to fall back on formation at that point. Best struck at a great time when kal wasn't paying attention. | ||
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
Damn I wish I had screenshotted that! The STX coach poking Hwasin repeatedly in the ear and twisting his finger around. Hwasin did not look amused at all.... so the coach did it again That dude rocks  | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
It seems that Midas hasn't recovered from his OSL loss though. I've only seen him in the lineups once, and it would seem that he would be optimal choice for ace. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
This wasn't a "OMG JULY KNOWS HOW TO BEAT MECH!" moment - not even close. The way Canata fucked up most zerg players would have smashed him to pieces. Canata let July back into the game, had no vulture presence, and sat back and massed units - so Zerg gets their eco up. And whoever said Hydras are good vs mech...wtf? :/ You need a shit ton of hydras and late game defilers to even have a chance of breaking a major mech force. They are not cost effective at all, but they work because of the damage type and the fact that you can replace your army of hydras much faster than he can replace tanks. If you lose 4 hydras for every 1 tank you probably won't care if he let you have 5 expos now would you? | ||
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economist_
Vietnam719 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:28 thunk wrote: Not even. Fantasy's TvZ looked really good actually versus GGpaly in game three and it's well known that Midas' TvZ is really good. I think SKT1's dearth of good zergs and good zerg practice partners is really hurting their team. Hyuk is the worst in the league right now in win-loss ratio and GoRush is washed up. Rumble needs to get better. Fantays TvsZ was horrible before the match against GGPlay. The only reason that he won vs GGplay is that he gave GGplay a big surprise by his revolution. Look at his standard TvsZ in that match, it might be better but still had no chance against well-prepared GGplay. I am pretty sure his games before that semi looked damn poor which resulted in 4 games losing streak This Canata mech build is just the output of the T team research I guess but using it without making Z surprise would mean suicide | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:35 thunk wrote: Yea, I think once SKT1 players stop prepping for the OSL they'll play a lot better. It seems that Midas hasn't recovered from his OSL loss though. I've only seen him in the lineups once, and it would seem that he would be optimal choice for ace. For ace, I would probably pick best- he seems like he's most on top of his game out of all of the skt1 players. The ones that are out of msl/osl are the best for the announced matches, but you just want the straight up best player for ace (or your cluch player i suppose- see anytime/pusan) | ||
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Ideas
United States8104 Posts
On October 19 2008 11:28 Ideas wrote: I can't wait for this match! predictions: Bisu > by.hero ( I love watching bisu lose to Zs but I don't see by.hero beating anyone but boxer) Midas < Hwasn (Hwasin is TvT godness) rumble < Calm (calm is on STX and I like STX) best > Kal (Kal is way cooler than best but best is best :\) ace match: Best < July (because July is awesome) I was fucking close....Canata = best though | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
and their terran lineup needs a revitalize :\ | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:37 economist_ wrote: Fantays TvsZ was horrible before the match against GGPlay. The only reason that he won vs GGplay is that he gave GGplay a big surprise by his revolution. Look at his standard TvsZ in that match, it might be better but still had no chance against well-prepared GGplay. I am pretty sure his games before that semi looked damn poor which resulted in 4 games losing streak This Canata mech build is just the output of the T team research I guess but using it without making Z surprise would mean suicide I actually thought that Oov recommended that metal build to Fantasy because GGplay probably would have won if Fantasy let the game go to hive. There was an interview where somebody said that the biggest difference between rookies and veterans was that veterans' late game mechanics were so much better. If you look at it like that, Fantasy was better off trying to end the game relatively early rather than let GGplay's superior late game kick in. It's a hard question to answer from where we stand right now. We'll see in future games whether or not Fantasy's mnm play is any good. Plenty of players have completely reversed previous play in their weak matchups in less than 4 months ago, when Fantasy's last set of TvZ losses occurred. | ||
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:34 .risingdragoon wrote: Are you an idiot? He was in horrible position cus he was forced into it. More than 2 reavers/1 shuttle and it's too much to shuttle micro them, so people tend to fall back on formation at that point. Best struck at a great time when kal wasn't paying attention. i dont get what is so hard for you to understand. Kal never should have attacked and he had horrible positioning when he moved to attack. Best's only option at this point in the game was to go all-in and hope for the best(no pun intended). Kal should have realized this and just stayed in his safe position. Best has amazing macro--obviously, however Kal lost a won game here, he did not get outplayed by best in this game | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:52 Aux1 wrote: i dont get what is so hard for you to understand. That's my line. You don't win a game while the other guy still has an army running around. Kal had the advantage, he harrassed better all game long but as soon as he let his main army get intercepted by best (get this, he wasn't moving to attack, he was just moving) while he was still savoring that dt harrass, he lost too much ground and the game. When Best crossed the lower high ground with a superior army the game was effectively finished. The fact that he gained that ground instead of getting lucky and walking into it makes it a comeback. | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Ideas, you were sooooo close. + Show Spoiler + On October 19 2008 11:28 Ideas wrote: I can't wait for this match! predictions: Bisu > by.hero ( I love watching bisu lose to Zs but I don't see by.hero beating anyone but boxer) Midas < Hwasn (Hwasin is TvT godness) rumble < Calm (calm is on STX and I like STX) best > Kal (Kal is way cooler than best but best is best :\) ace match: Best < July (because July is awesome) | ||
disciple
9070 Posts
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Gatw
United Kingdom4 Posts
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disciple
9070 Posts
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NonConGuy
United States416 Posts
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EvoChamber
France2505 Posts
what. the. hell. best wishes, Everyone. | ||
SilverskY
Korea (South)3086 Posts
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On October 19 2008 18:00 disciple wrote: damn SKT whats wrong with you? I'm glad bisu/best are doing some serious asskicking but what about midas, and especially canata... u make hwasin's tvt sound like a pushover..... anyhow way to go stx....was hopin kal > best but i know stork will pull through | ||
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
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fanofbest
United States145 Posts
SKT1's manager lol.TT He never can make right decisions. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On October 20 2008 09:20 fanofbest wrote: OMG , SKT1 how could put Canata . There were Bisu and Best,or at least Midas. SKT1's manager lol.TT He never can make right decisions. oov for ace would of been sick oov vs. july 2008 | ||
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Atrioc
United States1865 Posts
it has SKT1 winning 3-1 and then an ace match happening out of nowhere of July/Canata. I'm assuming the act match actually did happen so that means either Bisu/Midas/Best lost and the results need to be changed. | ||
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DeepGray
United States214 Posts
On October 20 2008 09:47 Atrioc wrote: Hey can someone fix the results page it has SKT1 winning 3-1 and then an ace match happening out of nowhere of July/Canata. I'm assuming the act match actually did happen so that means either Bisu/Midas/Best lost and the results need to be changed. Midas lost. Yeah, I didn't catch the game live and I had to skim through the entire thread to figure out what really happened. | ||
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ScarFace
United States1175 Posts
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On October 20 2008 10:11 ScarFace wrote: OP, you have midas as beating hwasin, which is wrong. sorry fixed | ||
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Wasabi
United States3085 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
Edit: 4pool. | ||
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mog87
United States1586 Posts
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[X]Ken_D
United States4650 Posts
On October 19 2008 16:35 Ace wrote: good lord will you guys stfu This wasn't a "OMG JULY KNOWS HOW TO BEAT MECH!" moment - not even close. The way Canata fucked up most zerg players would have smashed him to pieces. Canata let July back into the game, had no vulture presence, and sat back and massed units - so Zerg gets their eco up. And whoever said Hydras are good vs mech...wtf? :/ You need a shit ton of hydras and late game defilers to even have a chance of breaking a major mech force. They are not cost effective at all, but they work because of the damage type and the fact that you can replace your army of hydras much faster than he can replace tanks. If you lose 4 hydras for every 1 tank you probably won't care if he let you have 5 expos now would you? This is a "OMG JULY KNOWS HOW TO BEAT MECH!" moment. When I TvZ going mech and it is spotted early this what happens when the zerg knows what they are doing. Vultures aren't that useful say compared to TvP. Vultures are only useful against zerglings. Once July got those hydralisks out, vultures can't do anything to slowdown July's expansion. If mech builds are scouted early, massive amount of flanked hydras are good against mech. Combined with mutalisk, it's even more digusting. Terran can't wait forever until 200/200. Terran has to move out and slow down zerg from taking the entire map. Like someone said, oldschool player July is experience against these types of build. | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
On October 20 2008 09:22 sung_moon wrote: oov for ace would of been sick oov vs. july 2008 It's curious because poor line ups have been pretty common from SKT1 of the late. From sending out Hyuk and Canata for Ace to like the OGN/SKT1 proleague playoffs last year, it's been evident that the manager (who seems to make most of the key decisions, no idea what Oov or Kingdom does) consistently makes poor decisions. He's so set on ace sniping and sending out the right players on the right maps and it makes me think that if he just sat down and blindly put down players SKT1 would do better. SKT1 is better than that, they just have to have the confidence to send out their players against snipers and have confidence that their players will prevail. On October 20 2008 12:43 Wasabi wrote: Okay T1 fanboys, tell me who could possibly win against July in that ace match. We're given the illusion that July is not playing well because he was knocked out of OSL, and suddenly he had to play in the ace match, and won, with his weakest matchup. Best- no (does he want to get drill droned again? Even keke defeated him, and he looked terribad against Jaedong), Midas- no (choke more), Bisu- maybe (he did beat July in the OSL tiebreaker), Fantasy- maybe (defeated GGPlay recently). The latter two, who have a better chance of winning against July, are still in individual leagues and probably didn't prepare for an ace match. They should have switched Midas and Canata. Canata should never be used as a ace player but he's got spectacular TvT and is good enough to avoid getting taken out TvZ or TvP. Midas or Bisu would have been the best choice because STX actually has quite a range of ace choices, and both of Midas and Bisu's matchups across the board are solid. The second tier of ace choices are probably Canata, Fantasy, Best, Hyuk, you know, all the kids that make it into the line ups regularly. They could all win an ace match if given the opportunity but they just need to not get so caught up in this sniping business. Bul_T is also another potential candidate but I haven't seen him since the MSL. Does anyone know what happened to Shudder_V_? | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17727 Posts
I liked how July played the last game. Very patient. | ||
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Paddington
Australia254 Posts
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Raithed
China7078 Posts
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17727 Posts
On October 20 2008 16:40 Raithed wrote: man im kinda happy july is winning games, hes such a happy fellow. imo he beat a crappy player, canata is more known for his tvt than tvz. I wouldn't consider Canata crappy though. Hes around a mid level pro and his tvz is alrite. Sad though, he was considered the next big terran by Oov. | ||
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