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- scouting dt goes almost directly to the bottom left expand to scout it, then goes back towards p main, never attempts any kind of further scouting or harass, simply moves out to scout that specific expand.
- p moves units to cover 12, then as lings start moving up, obs moves down just slightly to see lings moving, and p army goes to intercept lings
- protoss has such good scouting the entire game, always catch zerg units as theyre moving across the map, and yet he never scouts ahead of making a big attack, just randomly bashes his units into bases
- zerg taking top right, protoss army goes to kill it, just as he's doing that he sends almost his whole army back... just as lings are running up to 12 location , cuts them off
- again protoss tries to take top right, moves his army there , then starts moving his army back towards his main in time to cut off lings moving up
its just the game as a whole that looks suspicious rather than a specific time.
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i wish there was a team of flags staff that could anazlie reps and tell whether or not hacking is taking place...
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Xeris, it'd be a lot easier if you could give us some times.
But, that DT scouted the bottom middle and then went to bottom left.
Errr, the protoss started at top right, so do you mean top left?
Rewatching rep:
Observer moving down at: 12:20 ish.
Zerg starts moving toward 12 at around 12:02
Protoss attacks the top left at around 14:00
Second zerg attack at around 15:20
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United States10774 Posts
The biggest suspicion for me was not a specific move, but the general game play of the Protoss. He somehow knows the Zerg isn't doing a fast tech Muta build, although he saw Speedlings running around. He goes on to do some strange VERY SLOW tech build while expanding with cannons, which was a perfect counter to what the Zerg was doing. Note that Protoss virtually scouted nothing at this point. However, he does not add a single cannon to his main and gets extremely late Templar Archives. As a Protoss player, I have no idea how the fuck you can do that. Someone explain to me how this is possible. You HAVE to be suspicious of mutas when you know that the Zerg got his gas early and could tech up anytime he wanted. It doesn't make sense to me. I'll post more after watching the replay again. Saw it yesterday and don't remember much besides that.
But still, I honestly don't know if the evidence is concrete enough to punish (OD). It's possible that the Protoss hacked, but it's also possible that he somehow just got really lucky with the whole build deal. It's Xeris' call to make.
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On July 10 2008 01:54 Xeris wrote:
- scouting dt goes almost directly to the bottom left expand to scout it, then goes back towards p main, never attempts any kind of further scouting or harass, simply moves out to scout that specific expand.
The scouting DT went to bottom middle first, then went to bottom left main. It got attacked by a sunken at the natural, and ran away. He didn't send it back to his base, but just (approx.) to the middle of the map, where it got killed by some lings. He did not send the dt directly to bottom left natural and run it home again. (~9:20)
- p moves units to cover 12, then as lings start moving up, obs moves down just slightly to see lings moving, and p army goes to intercept lings
If you watch the replay on Se7en's vision, he had vision of the lings before he moved his observer down. He had an observer idling at his natural, which let him see a few lings, so he moved it down afterwards. (~12:10)
- protoss has such good scouting the entire game, always catch zerg units as theyre moving across the map, and yet he never scouts ahead of making a big attack, just randomly bashes his units into bases
At ~17:30 he attacks bottom left without scouting out the defenses prior (but he knew it was there due to dt scout), but he also gets his natural countered/destroyed, which he had no defenses in place for.
At ~23:00 he attacks the zerg's natural without scouting out the defenses, and loses his entire army doing so (doesn't seem that hack-like :/)
- zerg taking top right, protoss army goes to kill it, just as he's doing that he sends almost his whole army back... just as lings are running up to 12 location , cuts them off
Kind've confusing, as Se7en started at top right. Not sure what you're referring to here. Please post the time it happened.
- again protoss tries to take top right, moves his army there , then starts moving his army back towards his main in time to cut off lings moving up
Again, Se7en started top right. Please post the time this happened.
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K, When the observer moves down, the goon has already seen the Lings. Simply watching the replay at "Fastest Speed" confirms it.
The first attack to 12 I really can't explain ;;
I think that the second attack was only stopped because the protoss wanted to gain map control (and obviously the middle is one the of the most important places on Geometry), so he moved back to the middle after sending his entire army to kill the drone.
I can't really say anything about the muta tech because I suck ass, but he did see7 lings with his pylon at 6:05. Maybe that's why? =/
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United States10774 Posts
7 Lings? What about them?
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On July 10 2008 02:26 OneOther wrote:
The biggest suspicion for me was not a specific move, but the general game play of the Protoss. He somehow knows the Zerg isn't doing a fast tech Muta build, although he saw Speedlings running around. He goes on to do some strange VERY SLOW tech build while expanding with cannons, which was a perfect counter to what the Zerg was doing. Note that Protoss virtually scouted nothing at this point. However, he does not add a single cannon to his main and gets extremely late Templar Archives. As a Protoss player, I have no idea how the fuck you can do that. Someone explain to me how this is possible. You HAVE to be suspicious of mutas when you know that the Zerg got his gas early and could tech up anytime he wanted. It doesn't make sense to me. I'll post more after watching the replay again. Saw it yesterday and don't remember much besides that.
This is the one thing that I saw suspicious as well. However, I really don't think this alone is enough to say someone is hacking, as just this one incident can very easily be luck, especially when it was played on ICCup with AH on.
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I have no idea, but don't most zergs save larvae at their hatcheries so they can get as many mutas as they can when the spire pops?
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United States10774 Posts
On July 10 2008 02:50 Fear_Chaos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2008 02:26 OneOther wrote:
The biggest suspicion for me was not a specific move, but the general game play of the Protoss. He somehow knows the Zerg isn't doing a fast tech Muta build, although he saw Speedlings running around. He goes on to do some strange VERY SLOW tech build while expanding with cannons, which was a perfect counter to what the Zerg was doing. Note that Protoss virtually scouted nothing at this point. However, he does not add a single cannon to his main and gets extremely late Templar Archives. As a Protoss player, I have no idea how the fuck you can do that. Someone explain to me how this is possible. You HAVE to be suspicious of mutas when you know that the Zerg got his gas early and could tech up anytime he wanted. It doesn't make sense to me. I'll post more after watching the replay again. Saw it yesterday and don't remember much besides that.
This is the one thing that I saw suspicious as well. However, I really don't think this alone is enough to say someone is hacking, as just this one incident can very easily be luck, especially when it was played on ICCup with AH on.
What makes it even more suspicious is that the Protoss knew Zerg's Overlord was seeing how late he was teching up. As Protoss, you pretty much HAVE to be scared of mutas/lurker drop/hydra timing attack and all that, yet he just keeps pumping..slow zealots and then expands. A perfect counter to defensive expo+lurker play by Zerg.
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United States10774 Posts
On July 10 2008 02:51 FragKrag wrote:
I have no idea, but don't most zergs save larvae at their hatcheries so they can get as many mutas as they can when the spire pops?
Wait what? Seeing 7 lings doesn't mean the Zerg isn't saving up larvaes :O Besides Protoss had absolutely no idea what the Zerg was doing so he wouldn't be able to estimate when the Z would be saving larvaes.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On July 09 2008 14:35 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2008 12:41 {88}iNcontroL wrote:yet smi. gets nothing for fielding almost an entirely hacker based lineup against media  Entire lineup? You mean Spades?
Spades played 2 games iirc and Dino smurfed for smi.black against me.
But you're right, perhaps 1 or maybe 2 of the games were played by non hackers. Pardon my liberal use of the word "entire." Let us mentally correct it with "an almost entire...".
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United States10774 Posts
On July 10 2008 02:56 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2008 14:35 OneOther wrote:On July 09 2008 12:41 {88}iNcontroL wrote:yet smi. gets nothing for fielding almost an entirely hacker based lineup against media Entire lineup? You mean Spades? Spades played 2 games iirc and Dino smurfed for smi.black against me. But you're right, perhaps 1 or maybe 2 of the games were played by non hackers. Pardon my liberal use of the word "entire." Let us mentally correct it with " an almost entire...".
Oh lol. Well fuck them both
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Did we ever get actual proof that sMi.BlaCk was a) Dino and b) hacking?
edit: All i've ever seen is allegations but i've never seen any actual proof or anything.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
The "we" in this instance was Media finding out that they were laughing about this amongst each other. If you're asking if hotkeys were researched or if a SS was taken no. And "hacking" is synonomous with Dino so when he abuses by playing for someone it is more than safe to say he'd have no problem hacking on top of it.
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i heard people in OD clan hack is this true?
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On July 10 2008 03:04 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
The "we" in this instance was Media finding out that they were laughing about this amongst each other. If you're asking if hotkeys were researched or if a SS was taken no. And "hacking" is synonomous with Dino so when he abuses by playing for someone it is more than safe to say he'd have no problem hacking on top of it.
again, I will point out that:
a) Media won the clanwar
b) Spades was caught hacking weeks after the season.
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On July 10 2008 02:46 FragKrag wrote:
The first attack to 12 I really can't explain ;;
I think that the second attack was only stopped because the protoss wanted to gain map control (and obviously the middle is one the of the most important places on Geometry), so he moved back to the middle after sending his entire army to kill the drone.
Se7en moves his army around the map the entire game, it's almost never idle. The purpose is to limit zerg movement and take map control, making it harder for the Z to attack. It's no wonder he intercepted some lings.
Also, you can see when Se7en intercepts the lings at going to 12 at ~14:00 that he is caught by surprise. He had left some units to defend the top left natural that he had just made a nexus at, and moved the rest of his units back toward the center of the map. When he ran into the lings going to 12, he took those units he left for defense and had them attack towards the center of the map as well.
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In response to FragKrag . The point is not specific incident's where "HACK" is clearly evident. The point is, throughout the game, the play of protoss is very suspicious.
even if a player is hacking doesn't mean he won't make boneheaded decisions (like losing his whole army killing an expo)... the fact that he made mistakes throughout the game in regards to attacking heavily defended expands and stuff doesn't mean he couldn't have also been hacking.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On July 10 2008 03:31 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2008 03:04 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
The "we" in this instance was Media finding out that they were laughing about this amongst each other. If you're asking if hotkeys were researched or if a SS was taken no. And "hacking" is synonomous with Dino so when he abuses by playing for someone it is more than safe to say he'd have no problem hacking on top of it. again, I will point out that: a) Media won the clanwar b) Spades was caught hacking weeks after the season.
Ok, I will point out that regardless of timeframe the clan went unpunished (not even publicly warned). Regardless of when Spades was caught hacking, he was a prominant player while hacking in your season and you just ignored it and hoped that it wouldn't matter. You should have maintained the policy that hacking in your league is a punishable offense WIN OR LOSE.
Your A/B point has NOTHING to do with him hacking against us and in your league.
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EPT
