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Ok well I'm just posting this because things have been very hectic at BWUSA.org recently, with dozens of hack attempts over a one week period, I lost all my Yankee League info twice, had to re-do it all... and finally we're getting back on track and will hopefully have all the kinks worked out and get everything back organized and running as smoothly as it should be by next week.
So here's an overall update on what's been going on:
(1) New Admin:
Since Dirtybird totally disappeared, we have a new admin to replace him, Playgwi[Shock]. Now the admin crew is:
-Xeris
-Amber
-Quesadilla
-Playgwi
(2) New Shoutcaster:
We've got a new shoutcaster (and possibly two new ones *gasp*) so the shoutcasting team now looks like this:
-Diggity
-PsyonicReaver
-Rise
-Freaky (part-time)
-Xeris (I might be getting a mic soon, so I'll start casting part-time if needed for some color commentary)
(3) Team asa removed ... they were really unresponsive, late with lineups, and only showed up the first week. All teams will be given a 3-0 win vs them.
(4) Season 3 Sign Ups ... If you are a USA based team and are interested in participating next season, please check BWUSA.org regularly and keep an eye out for Season 3 Sign Ups. It will be announced shortly.
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Ok now with that out of the way, here are a summary of the matches so far:
Week 1
50Cal [3-0] sMi
Media [3-1] PewPew
asa [0-3] Shock
NrG [3-1] OD
Week 2
PewPew [W.O] sMi
asa [W.O] Media
50Cal [3-0] NrG
Shock [2-3] OD
Week 3
50Cal [3-0] Shock
NrG [3-0] sMi
Media [1-3] OD
asa [W.O] PewPew
Week 4 **UPCOMING**
Wednesday June 25th
NrG vs PewPew
Media vs 50Cal
Thursday June 26th
sMi vs Shock
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Here are the current standings *all asa's matches are 0-3 losses*
1. 50Cal - [4-0] - 12 points
2. PewPew - [2-1] - 6 points
3. Media - [2-1] - 5 points
4. NrG - [3-1] - 8 points
5. OD - [3-1] - 6 point
6. Shock - [1-2] - 3 points
7. sMi - [1-3] - 3 points
8. asa - [0-7] - 0 points
**I will keep this thread updated and bumped to keep you all informed. I will also put links to all our casting servers. This past week we've had some troubles with getting the casting done, but hopefully by next week everything will be back and running smoothly.
Thanks everyone for their patience and understanding, and hope you will all enjoy the rest of this season and seasons to come.
GL HF everyone.
Brought to you by:
BWUSA.org
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is awesome32277 Posts
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NrG FTW!!!
EDIT: Lol at media losing to od
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Wow Kawaiirice did very well vs media in 1v1 beating machine and then G5 in ace match. (They skipped 2nd 1v1 and went to ace match for some reason?) His TvP must've improved even more. Machine played P vs him too which is weird. I think he'd have been much better off going Z.
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when you replace someone you have to play the same race. Machine replaced Nony who didn't show.
there were lat problems between Assem and his opp, so it just went to ace match. there would have been another ace if there was a 2-2 tie.
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On June 20 2008 15:13 Jonoman92 wrote:
Wow Kawaiirice did very well vs media in 1v1 beating machine and then G5 in ace match. (They skipped 2nd 1v1 and went to ace match for some reason?) His TvP must've improved even more. Machine played P vs him too which is weird. I think he'd have been much better off going Z.
It's against YL rules, since the matches are predetermined similiar to proleague you can't exactly have JaeDong playing ZvT vs Midas then when the match goes to start put Bisu in instead. The prep time is then negated and it sucks.
Your sub has to be the same race as the person you were subbing for. Since machine replaced NonY he had to go P, there wasn't a choice really.
also i played in the 2on2 <3
OD4Life <3
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damn you xeris!
edit: will the matches get CASTED?!?!?!?
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Calgary25986 Posts
2. PewPew - [2-1] - 6 points
LOL
DO IT PEWPEW!
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I'm going to give the reps to either diggity or psyonic and they'll cast them. also have some games from wednesday to cast as well.
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pewpew might be the greatest team name ever
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OD 3-1 Media?
o.O is there something i'm missing?
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Wow surprising results so far this season.
Enjoying it just the same though.
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On June 21 2008 01:44 iLjh wrote:
OD 3-1 Media?
o.O is there something i'm missing?
duh...we're gosu =P
but honestly we've acquired quite a few decent gamers as of late, perhaps we'll flex some more Yankee League muscles in week 5... =O
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On June 21 2008 04:19 SickTighT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2008 01:44 iLjh wrote:
OD 3-1 Media?
o.O is there something i'm missing? duh...we're gosu =P but honestly we've acquired quite a few decent gamers as of late, perhaps we'll flex some more Yankee League muscles in week 5... =O
We are becoming eveyrthing me and you spoke of the first few days i was in the team and you promoted me when you were smashed <3
although you probably don't remember it, but i still love you shifty.
RECRUITING TRIPLE A+ AND HIGHER.
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Shame we had no casting. If I remember correctly, it ended abruptly half-way through. Oh well, we still won. OD = gosu, no doubt about it.
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Ok everybody... Week 4 starts TOMORROW!
Wednesday June 25
NrG vs PewPew - op Yankee-1 (Admin: PlayGwi / Caster: ME)
1v1 #1: NrG.Eve (Z) (Othello) pewpewpikachu (T)
1v1 #2: NrG.Perfection (Z) (Wuthering) pewpewpeaches (T)
2v2: NrG.Bamboo/NrG.ZaM (ZZ) (Python) pewpewnomnom/pewpewrage (ZT)
1v1 #3: NrG.Nasty (P) (Andromeda) pewpewlessQQ (Z)
50Cal vs Media - @ op Yankee-2 (Admin: Amber / Caster: Diggity)
1v1 #1: 50Cal.Sadist (T) (Othello) Artosis (T)
1v1 #2: 50Cal.Louder (P) (Wuthering) LzGamer (Z)
2v2: 50Cal.gOmi/50Cal.Moo (PZ) (Python) Machine/G5 (ZP)
1v1 #3: 50Cal.GoTuNk (Z) (Andromeda) Assem (T)
-------
I will be casting NrG vs PewPew ! Get ready for some sexy action!
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I want to see the lineup/draw of OD vs Media
how the FUCK are we down 1-3? l looool
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it was like...
Freekill > Machine (TvP ... bryce had to offrace)
OD 2v2 > Media 2v2
Voo < G5
then there was a problem between Assem and his opponent (they couldnt be in the same game together) so we just went to ace match
Freekill > G5 (TvP)
and that was 3-1.
you could also check bwusa.org all the draws are posted there ;]
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woo I just did a practice shoutcast, I'm ready to rumble tomorrow O_O!
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I think sMi is pretty much dead. Forums unresponsive, they don't show up for games, site is never updated, nothing is updated really... etc.
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On June 25 2008 12:56 Superiorwolf wrote:
I think sMi is pretty much dead. Forums unresponsive, they don't show up for games, site is never updated, nothing is updated really... etc.
Yea we are kinda fucked without Dirtybird because we don't have a leader! A lot of the active people like me and Wannabcool don't have frickin access on all the league sites and that's hella annoying. The WO we gave in yankee was definitely a low point and it was mainly due to the combination of bwusa.org and smiteam.net both being hacked. Hopefully things will get better...
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Yah hopefully it can get back on its feet because it's a quite prestigious, good clan which is graced with good players too 
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Dirtybird died or something ? Seriously he's been completely gone for over a month =\
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United States10774 Posts
sMi still has active players like myself/Arcology/Wannabcool/lols/Daemon etc but all the managers are like..dead. DirtybirD being gone definitely hurts us as he has access to every single website and always informed+motivated players to come CWs. I requested to be on the sMi ICCup team three days ago but no one has the power to do it lol. Just hoping DirtybirD comes back soon :/ The team is extremely unorganized atm, with individual players doing their own thing pretty much.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
WOW g5 lost as P vs a T?
holy crap ._.
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On June 25 2008 15:41 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
WOW g5 lost as P vs a T?
holy crap ._.
baekmagoji
him like 3 fact, me expand
simple as that
bo loss
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
ah..
Seek revenge sir eric ~ ~ ~ ~
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LOLOL Baekmagoji... wtf... I thought that map died
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you thought wrong, my friend.
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On June 25 2008 12:48 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I want to see the lineup/draw of OD vs Media
how the FUCK are we down 1-3? l looool
I AM MONKEYSPANKER
2on2 GAWD.
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xeris you should let me cast with you <3
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On June 25 2008 21:13 fonger wrote:
LALALA
lol fonger, that post took you an edit.
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yeap fonger is practising tvt madly this week only 2 realize hes still crap at it ;D
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NrG vs PewPew - http://xeriscasting.listen2myradio.com/ .
I'll just be talking to myself for another 15 minutes, so if you want to hear me typing / talking to myself, click!
Clanwars will be starting in 15 min
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FreeKill > g5??? tvp... wow, unbelievable. Why did Bryce have to offrace? =\
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when you replace you have to use the same race as the player you are replacing, so people can't abuse replacing to get better mu.
he replaced nony (P) so he had to play P too.
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On June 26 2008 11:16 nogrr wrote:
FreeKill > g5??? tvp... wow, unbelievable. Why did Bryce have to offrace? =\
Because I think the pre-set draw had a protoss player in the slot but he couldn't come so they subbed Machine in and the rules are you can sub a player but they must use same race (and only 3 subs I think it is per whole season.)
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Sorry to hear about your sunburn Xeris 
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United States11637 Posts
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anyways, for those who listened, hope you enjoyed my cast... =O I might do another tomorrow.
here are the draws for today:
NrG [3-1] PewPew - op Yankee-1 (Admin: PlayGwi / Caster: tba)
1v1 #1: NrG.Eve (Z) [0-1] pewpewpikachu (T)
1v1 #2: NrG.Perfection (Z) [1-1] pewpewprincess** (T)
2v2: NrG.Bamboo/NrG.ZaM (ZZ) [2-1] pewpewnomnom/pewpewrage (ZT)
1v1 #3: NrG.Bamboo** (P) [3-1] pewpewlessQQ (Z)
50Cal [3-2] Media - @ op Yankee-2 (Admin: Amber / Caster: Diggity)
1v1 #1: 50Cal.Sadist (T) [0-1] Artosis (T)
1v1 #2: 50Cal.Louder (P) [1-1] LzGamer (P)
2v2: 50Cal.gOmi/50Cal.GoTuNk** (PZ) [2-1] Machine/G5 (ZP)
1v1 #3: 50Cal.GoTuNk (Z) [2-2] Assem (T)
Ace: 50Cal.Sadist (T) [3-2] NonY (P)
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They are obviously too good to care.
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1v1 #1: sMi.Frozen (P) (Othello) PlayGwi[Shock] (P)
1v1 #2: sMi.lols (Z) (Wuthering) Sick[Shock] (P)
1v1 #3: sMi.Fonger (T) (Andromeda) Xkfyu[Shock] (T)
2v2: sMi.frozen/sMi.Seren (PZ) (Python) Blade[Shock]/Josu[Shock] (PP)
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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United States10774 Posts
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OD just won a nail-biter over PewPew tonight I heard. Hopefully VODS will be up soon!
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god dammit i suck at this game.
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monkeyspanker has failed as professional 2on2er
oh tits
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Wow!! PewPewPrincess is so pretty... <3
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After getting the opinion of the TSL antihack crew, as well as my own judgment, I have concluded that Se7en(OD) was hacking in last week's Yankee League match vs PewPew. He played both 1v1 and the Ace match, winning decisive games to bring OD a victory.
The most important thing in this case is that just several months ago, Se7en(OD) was caught hacking, and it was confirmed through teamliquid.net, and even OD leadership admitted this and said he would be removed from the team (CHECK HERE).
Although there are only two replays of Se7en(OD) playing in Yankee League, one highly suspicious game is all the proof needed, based on this player's prior history of hacking less than 6 months ago, to conclude that there was hacking going on in this game.
The game in question is Se7en(OD) (P) vs PewPewWhoIsWho (Z) on Geometry in the Ace match ([url blocked]). There are a lot of suspicious movements, of Se7en's army mirroring the movements of Zerg's army, the most telling moment is when Zerg is attempting to drop the 2nd main of Se7en, and without any vision, scouting, or prior notice of a drop at that specific location, moves his entire army directly to where Zerg's overlords are.
The Punishment:
- Se7en(OD) will be banned from Yankee League.
- His matches will be reversed to give PewPew a 3-1 victory
- OD will receive a warning: If caught of any type of foul play (hacking, acc sharing, cheating of any kind) they will be removed from Yankee League permanently.
Hopefully this will serve to deter any other foul play by OD and any one else who may be considering such action.
From BWUSA.org
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wow this is quite disappointing to hear.. overdosed has been working hard to get over the label of newb clan, and after beating media not to mention countless other recent cw wins (without se7en(OD) playing) it looked like they were on the path to getting over that. its a shame to see one player not only disgrace the himself, and the league, but his entire team as well who will lose any respect they have fought hard to gain.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
yet smi. gets nothing for fielding almost an entirely hacker based lineup against media
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Addressing the whole Se7en(OD) subject:
Several months ago, one of our most trusted clan members disproved it. He was banned, he was exiled, and the member analyzed the replay. It was a canceled upgrade.
Now on the overlord drop.
What mirroring movement? You see Se7en moving towards the middle to gain map control at around 20:50ish, not mirroring the movement of the overlords. The cannon had clear sight of 4 overlords that were unloading. 4 fucking overlords, and after he sees ultra/ling unloaded, he reacts. That is definitely hacking amirite.
Then at around 23:00 minutes, you see Se7en preparing to attack the Zerg main. Tell me 7 o'clock main would not be easier to attack? Nope, he decides to lose most of his army.
I see this as bias against OD just because OD gained victories over Media and now, pewpew.
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Just to clarify, the incident where Se7en was "caught" hacking several months ago was disproved. Back then he was accused of mineral hacking (with support of Dokata_fanning's BWHF). However, it turned out just to be a bug in the program which called Se7en canceling some upgrade and getting the appropriate resources for doing so, a mineral hack; this is a bug which has since been fixed (I PMed Dakota about it myself, and he responded shortly afterward that he fixed the bug). This is why he was not actually banned from the team back then.
(OD) does not, and will never, support hacking in any way.
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On July 09 2008 12:41 {88}iNcontroL wrote:yet smi. gets nothing for fielding almost an entirely hacker based lineup against media
1) spades and all that was caught hacking AFTER Yankee League finished.
2) Media won the clanwar anyways
this is entirely different.
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if I was a member of Media or PewPew your "bias" claim might hold some water.
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Bullshit, everybody knows that many people think of OD as the East Hacker noob clan, Trash clan, newbie clan, hacker clan, etc etc etc.
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as one of the leaders of OverDoseD BW i find it rather odd that someone of Xeris' standings in USA BW would rather make a post like any other random east gamer that got burned and thinks someone is hacking and makes a rant post
please...any 'hack specialists' out there...watch the replay posted in that first thread (linked in xeris post) and notice that at the time specified Se7en CANCELS and overlord upgrade...and doesn't hack (see Fear's post)
i watched the replay and think that it's incredible that anyone thinks that he's hacking
perhaps someone more mature should run YL (and the TL anti-hack staff for that matter)...rather than someone who's willing to jump at any hack accusation
and if you think that perhaps the OverDoseD leadership is biased in one way or anyone you would be sorely mistaken...we have a strict no double clanning rule (ex: if member A(OD) was invited to join Excello., mYm w/e he would not be permitted to play under the our tag, like NonY playing for Media even though he joined Excello)
we also have an aversion to hacks on ANY level (proven hackers have been exiled from the clan and in Se7en's case forgiven when the fault in 'hack accusation' was found)
if CLEAR evidence can be bought forth against Se7en or ANY other OverDoseD member it should be brought to the direct attention of the OverDoseD leadership rather than the community first, as we can handle our problems and of course forfeit games in any league that a PROVEN hacker has played in, an example of this is Naya(OD), who was caught hacking and played for us in several WGT CW's which we ended up forfeiting due to him hacking
In the future it would be more respectable if the staff of YL as well as any anit-hack crew they may have gathered, be it TL.net oriented or not, alert the ones in charge of X-clan/team about a possible hack instead of bad-mouthing them on a public forum
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If you don't understand why you weren't given some sort of advance notice of this post, reread the post.
The most important thing in this case is that just several months ago, Se7en(OD) was caught hacking, and it was confirmed through teamliquid.net, and even OD leadership admitted this and said he would be removed from the team ( CHECK HERE).
If you appear to not take hacking seriously, people will think you do not take hacking seriously.
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On July 09 2008 13:38 Louder wrote:If you don't understand why you weren't given some sort of advance notice of this post, reread the post. Show nested quote +The most important thing in this case is that just several months ago, Se7en(OD) was caught hacking, and it was confirmed through teamliquid.net, and even OD leadership admitted this and said he would be removed from the team ( CHECK HERE). If you appear to not take hacking seriously, people will think you do not take hacking seriously.
Take your own advice and read his post, and Fear_chaos's post.
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On July 09 2008 13:38 Louder wrote:If you don't understand why you weren't given some sort of advance notice of this post, reread the post. Show nested quote +The most important thing in this case is that just several months ago, Se7en(OD) was caught hacking, and it was confirmed through teamliquid.net, and even OD leadership admitted this and said he would be removed from the team ( CHECK HERE). If you appear to not take hacking seriously, people will think you do not take hacking seriously.
You need to read over the topic, it was proven that Seven was NOT hacking several months ago and thus was permitted to rejoin the roster. If you read the post just above yours as well you would have seen that they do take hacking seriously and have forfeited matches before once they discovered one of their players cheated. Stop hating on OD, lol
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1) I don't get where you think my post is a "rant post"
2) If I was like a random east gamer, I would have included something like "ROFLSUPBANNED NUB HACKER FACE STOMP EZ" in my post.
3) Everyone who is not in OD apparently that has seen the replay thinks he's hacking.
4) I'm not very sympathetic towards hackers. Someone who has been accused and/or caught before does not have my respect in this game, and any sort of suspicious actions by that player will result in me taking action. I don't want the integrity of Yankee League compromised by being too trust worthy with regards to any banned hacker.
As I said in a previous post: I have no reason to be biased, I'm not in Media or PewPew, LighT's position in Yankee League is not being compromised, we're going to be in the playoffs regardless, Media is withdrawing from Yankee due to lack of lineups, PewPew's position isn't threatened and I wasn't pressured by anyone. My only desire is to make sure the games are played cleanly, and I strongly believe that Se7en was hacking, and due to his past, I'm inclined to believe that is so, and I took action.
You can come out on the forum and make a big elaborate post about how you don't tolerate cheaters, and all that. I know a similar team that had the same attitude, remember Keepers? That team was full of hackers, and SyXx acted just the same way as you publicly. Big bold statements on a forum don't mean your members aren't being dishonest behind your back. It's quite possible.
Regardless of what you think, I stand by my judgment.
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What past are you talking about? If you read any of the last couple of posts, you'd realize that "past" never existed.
I mean ultimately it is your choice, but still.. =/
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Think about how this sounds:
RandomGuy(OD) : "Se7en(OD) was accused of hacking, and confirmed through replay analysis... but we proved he didnt do it"
oh ok!! that clears up all the misconceptions because you told me he actually never hacked. the fact that a player even comes under suspicion is suspicious enough. you don't see anyone accusing InControl, Machine, IefNaij, or even me of hacking...
just because you tell me he was disproven won't clear the doubt in my mind, especially since you are biased towards OD.
that's like me saying "God exists because I saw him once" and expecting people to blindly believe it.
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Please read/re-read my post for accurate information about Se7en's past.
Note that I'm not necessarily defending Se7en in this incident; there are more people that are much more qualified in making the decision of whether he was 100% hacking or not in his matches vs PewPew than myself. Like you, I have no tolerance for hackers as well; However, it seems like you're basing this decision off of incorrect information of him "hacking" several months ago.
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Just read your post, as it was posted as the same time as mine.
Basically, you don't believe that he was actually disproven to be hacker 6 months ago. However, all you have to do is watch the replay at the time stated in the accuser's blog and see that he did in fact not hack.
Again please note I'm not saying he didn't hack in this incident, if the general consensus based off that one replay is that he's 100% a hacker, then so be it. What I don't want his him to be accused as a hacker based off a faulty accusation 6 months ago.
Basically, my concern about the situation can be dumbed down to this:
Saying "This guy was proven hacking months ago, look at this suspicious replay" will almost always create a response of "Yeah, he's hacking for sure", while "Look at this suspicious replay, does this guy hack?" may create a different response.
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Well here's what I have to say about that:
I didn't know about his past when I first looked at the replay, when the PewPew guys first complained about the game they didn't know his past either, when the people I showed the game to saw it, they didn't know his past.
Everyone that saw the replay thought it was suspicious BEFORE they knew about his past. You are misunderstanding the point I'm making. I'm not saying : he hacked before ==> he must be a hacker now too because of the suspicious replay. What I AM saying is that: here we have a VERY suspicious replay (in my opinion as a 3rd party person), and other people have agreed with me, who are not members of PewPew. The replay alone is suspicious enough for me to take action, so I did. That's what I'm saying. The ONLY thing that the past accusation does (whether it is true or false) is put his character into question. I would have taken action even if that other accusation had never taken place.
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That addresses my concern, thanks.
If a previous false accusation did not influence your decision, that's fine by me (well, as fine as a shitty situation like this can be). Sorry this happened.
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United States10774 Posts
On July 09 2008 12:41 {88}iNcontroL wrote:yet smi. gets nothing for fielding almost an entirely hacker based lineup against media
Entire lineup? You mean Spades?
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please contact OverDoseD Leaders, Hedbergs(OD), corgur(OD), R.agnarok(OD), NewbCrack(OD) or myself sHiFt_240(OD) with the particulars of the VERY suspicious part of that replay...i've gone over it serveral time and the drop that occurred at one of se7en's expo's was spotted (FOUR OVERLORDS WORTH of drop)
if there is anyone else that would like to analyze the replay, they may contact me at sHiFt_240(OD)@useast and i will gladly show the replay in question
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I included the replay in my first post.
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On July 09 2008 12:56 FragKrag wrote:
Addressing the whole Se7en(OD) subject:
Several months ago, one of our most trusted clan members disproved it. He was banned, he was exiled, and the member analyzed the replay. It was a canceled upgrade.
Now on the overlord drop.
What mirroring movement? You see Se7en moving towards the middle to gain map control at around 20:50ish, not mirroring the movement of the overlords. The cannon had clear sight of 4 overlords that were unloading. 4 fucking overlords, and after he sees ultra/ling unloaded, he reacts. That is definitely hacking amirite.
Then at around 23:00 minutes, you see Se7en preparing to attack the Zerg main. Tell me 7 o'clock main would not be easier to attack? Nope, he decides to lose most of his army.
I see this as bias against OD just because OD gained victories over Media and now, pewpew.
Maybe the bold part was completely disregarded in a combined effort of righteous zeal...
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What ilovewaffles said...
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Alright, I just watched the replay. I'd like to know at what times in the replay Se7en is being highly suspicious, since I didn't see anything.
Please don't just post "you're biased because you're in OD" or whatever; I just want to know the details of why a player in my clan is being accused of hacking, since saying he "mirrored the movements of the Zerg army" is vague, and, as was discussed before, he had vision of the drop with cannons before moving his army towards the drop.
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- scouting dt goes almost directly to the bottom left expand to scout it, then goes back towards p main, never attempts any kind of further scouting or harass, simply moves out to scout that specific expand.
- p moves units to cover 12, then as lings start moving up, obs moves down just slightly to see lings moving, and p army goes to intercept lings
- protoss has such good scouting the entire game, always catch zerg units as theyre moving across the map, and yet he never scouts ahead of making a big attack, just randomly bashes his units into bases
- zerg taking top right, protoss army goes to kill it, just as he's doing that he sends almost his whole army back... just as lings are running up to 12 location , cuts them off
- again protoss tries to take top right, moves his army there , then starts moving his army back towards his main in time to cut off lings moving up
its just the game as a whole that looks suspicious rather than a specific time.
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i wish there was a team of flags staff that could anazlie reps and tell whether or not hacking is taking place...
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Xeris, it'd be a lot easier if you could give us some times.
But, that DT scouted the bottom middle and then went to bottom left.
Errr, the protoss started at top right, so do you mean top left?
Rewatching rep:
Observer moving down at: 12:20 ish.
Zerg starts moving toward 12 at around 12:02
Protoss attacks the top left at around 14:00
Second zerg attack at around 15:20
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United States10774 Posts
The biggest suspicion for me was not a specific move, but the general game play of the Protoss. He somehow knows the Zerg isn't doing a fast tech Muta build, although he saw Speedlings running around. He goes on to do some strange VERY SLOW tech build while expanding with cannons, which was a perfect counter to what the Zerg was doing. Note that Protoss virtually scouted nothing at this point. However, he does not add a single cannon to his main and gets extremely late Templar Archives. As a Protoss player, I have no idea how the fuck you can do that. Someone explain to me how this is possible. You HAVE to be suspicious of mutas when you know that the Zerg got his gas early and could tech up anytime he wanted. It doesn't make sense to me. I'll post more after watching the replay again. Saw it yesterday and don't remember much besides that.
But still, I honestly don't know if the evidence is concrete enough to punish (OD). It's possible that the Protoss hacked, but it's also possible that he somehow just got really lucky with the whole build deal. It's Xeris' call to make.
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On July 10 2008 01:54 Xeris wrote:
- scouting dt goes almost directly to the bottom left expand to scout it, then goes back towards p main, never attempts any kind of further scouting or harass, simply moves out to scout that specific expand.
The scouting DT went to bottom middle first, then went to bottom left main. It got attacked by a sunken at the natural, and ran away. He didn't send it back to his base, but just (approx.) to the middle of the map, where it got killed by some lings. He did not send the dt directly to bottom left natural and run it home again. (~9:20)
- p moves units to cover 12, then as lings start moving up, obs moves down just slightly to see lings moving, and p army goes to intercept lings
If you watch the replay on Se7en's vision, he had vision of the lings before he moved his observer down. He had an observer idling at his natural, which let him see a few lings, so he moved it down afterwards. (~12:10)
- protoss has such good scouting the entire game, always catch zerg units as theyre moving across the map, and yet he never scouts ahead of making a big attack, just randomly bashes his units into bases
At ~17:30 he attacks bottom left without scouting out the defenses prior (but he knew it was there due to dt scout), but he also gets his natural countered/destroyed, which he had no defenses in place for.
At ~23:00 he attacks the zerg's natural without scouting out the defenses, and loses his entire army doing so (doesn't seem that hack-like :/)
- zerg taking top right, protoss army goes to kill it, just as he's doing that he sends almost his whole army back... just as lings are running up to 12 location , cuts them off
Kind've confusing, as Se7en started at top right. Not sure what you're referring to here. Please post the time it happened.
- again protoss tries to take top right, moves his army there , then starts moving his army back towards his main in time to cut off lings moving up
Again, Se7en started top right. Please post the time this happened.
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K, When the observer moves down, the goon has already seen the Lings. Simply watching the replay at "Fastest Speed" confirms it.
The first attack to 12 I really can't explain ;;
I think that the second attack was only stopped because the protoss wanted to gain map control (and obviously the middle is one the of the most important places on Geometry), so he moved back to the middle after sending his entire army to kill the drone.
I can't really say anything about the muta tech because I suck ass, but he did see7 lings with his pylon at 6:05. Maybe that's why? =/
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United States10774 Posts
7 Lings? What about them?
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On July 10 2008 02:26 OneOther wrote:
The biggest suspicion for me was not a specific move, but the general game play of the Protoss. He somehow knows the Zerg isn't doing a fast tech Muta build, although he saw Speedlings running around. He goes on to do some strange VERY SLOW tech build while expanding with cannons, which was a perfect counter to what the Zerg was doing. Note that Protoss virtually scouted nothing at this point. However, he does not add a single cannon to his main and gets extremely late Templar Archives. As a Protoss player, I have no idea how the fuck you can do that. Someone explain to me how this is possible. You HAVE to be suspicious of mutas when you know that the Zerg got his gas early and could tech up anytime he wanted. It doesn't make sense to me. I'll post more after watching the replay again. Saw it yesterday and don't remember much besides that.
This is the one thing that I saw suspicious as well. However, I really don't think this alone is enough to say someone is hacking, as just this one incident can very easily be luck, especially when it was played on ICCup with AH on.
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I have no idea, but don't most zergs save larvae at their hatcheries so they can get as many mutas as they can when the spire pops?
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United States10774 Posts
On July 10 2008 02:50 Fear_Chaos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2008 02:26 OneOther wrote:
The biggest suspicion for me was not a specific move, but the general game play of the Protoss. He somehow knows the Zerg isn't doing a fast tech Muta build, although he saw Speedlings running around. He goes on to do some strange VERY SLOW tech build while expanding with cannons, which was a perfect counter to what the Zerg was doing. Note that Protoss virtually scouted nothing at this point. However, he does not add a single cannon to his main and gets extremely late Templar Archives. As a Protoss player, I have no idea how the fuck you can do that. Someone explain to me how this is possible. You HAVE to be suspicious of mutas when you know that the Zerg got his gas early and could tech up anytime he wanted. It doesn't make sense to me. I'll post more after watching the replay again. Saw it yesterday and don't remember much besides that.
This is the one thing that I saw suspicious as well. However, I really don't think this alone is enough to say someone is hacking, as just this one incident can very easily be luck, especially when it was played on ICCup with AH on.
What makes it even more suspicious is that the Protoss knew Zerg's Overlord was seeing how late he was teching up. As Protoss, you pretty much HAVE to be scared of mutas/lurker drop/hydra timing attack and all that, yet he just keeps pumping..slow zealots and then expands. A perfect counter to defensive expo+lurker play by Zerg.
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United States10774 Posts
On July 10 2008 02:51 FragKrag wrote:
I have no idea, but don't most zergs save larvae at their hatcheries so they can get as many mutas as they can when the spire pops?
Wait what? Seeing 7 lings doesn't mean the Zerg isn't saving up larvaes :O Besides Protoss had absolutely no idea what the Zerg was doing so he wouldn't be able to estimate when the Z would be saving larvaes.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On July 09 2008 14:35 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2008 12:41 {88}iNcontroL wrote:yet smi. gets nothing for fielding almost an entirely hacker based lineup against media Entire lineup? You mean Spades?
Spades played 2 games iirc and Dino smurfed for smi.black against me.
But you're right, perhaps 1 or maybe 2 of the games were played by non hackers. Pardon my liberal use of the word "entire." Let us mentally correct it with "an almost entire...".
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United States10774 Posts
On July 10 2008 02:56 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2008 14:35 OneOther wrote:On July 09 2008 12:41 {88}iNcontroL wrote:yet smi. gets nothing for fielding almost an entirely hacker based lineup against media Entire lineup? You mean Spades? Spades played 2 games iirc and Dino smurfed for smi.black against me. But you're right, perhaps 1 or maybe 2 of the games were played by non hackers. Pardon my liberal use of the word "entire." Let us mentally correct it with " an almost entire...".
Oh lol. Well fuck them both
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Did we ever get actual proof that sMi.BlaCk was a) Dino and b) hacking?
edit: All i've ever seen is allegations but i've never seen any actual proof or anything.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
The "we" in this instance was Media finding out that they were laughing about this amongst each other. If you're asking if hotkeys were researched or if a SS was taken no. And "hacking" is synonomous with Dino so when he abuses by playing for someone it is more than safe to say he'd have no problem hacking on top of it.
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i heard people in OD clan hack is this true?
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On July 10 2008 03:04 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
The "we" in this instance was Media finding out that they were laughing about this amongst each other. If you're asking if hotkeys were researched or if a SS was taken no. And "hacking" is synonomous with Dino so when he abuses by playing for someone it is more than safe to say he'd have no problem hacking on top of it.
again, I will point out that:
a) Media won the clanwar
b) Spades was caught hacking weeks after the season.
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On July 10 2008 02:46 FragKrag wrote:
The first attack to 12 I really can't explain ;;
I think that the second attack was only stopped because the protoss wanted to gain map control (and obviously the middle is one the of the most important places on Geometry), so he moved back to the middle after sending his entire army to kill the drone.
Se7en moves his army around the map the entire game, it's almost never idle. The purpose is to limit zerg movement and take map control, making it harder for the Z to attack. It's no wonder he intercepted some lings.
Also, you can see when Se7en intercepts the lings at going to 12 at ~14:00 that he is caught by surprise. He had left some units to defend the top left natural that he had just made a nexus at, and moved the rest of his units back toward the center of the map. When he ran into the lings going to 12, he took those units he left for defense and had them attack towards the center of the map as well.
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In response to FragKrag . The point is not specific incident's where "HACK" is clearly evident. The point is, throughout the game, the play of protoss is very suspicious.
even if a player is hacking doesn't mean he won't make boneheaded decisions (like losing his whole army killing an expo)... the fact that he made mistakes throughout the game in regards to attacking heavily defended expands and stuff doesn't mean he couldn't have also been hacking.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On July 10 2008 03:31 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2008 03:04 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
The "we" in this instance was Media finding out that they were laughing about this amongst each other. If you're asking if hotkeys were researched or if a SS was taken no. And "hacking" is synonomous with Dino so when he abuses by playing for someone it is more than safe to say he'd have no problem hacking on top of it. again, I will point out that: a) Media won the clanwar b) Spades was caught hacking weeks after the season.
Ok, I will point out that regardless of timeframe the clan went unpunished (not even publicly warned). Regardless of when Spades was caught hacking, he was a prominant player while hacking in your season and you just ignored it and hoped that it wouldn't matter. You should have maintained the policy that hacking in your league is a punishable offense WIN OR LOSE.
Your A/B point has NOTHING to do with him hacking against us and in your league.
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well the punishment would have been;
- spades banned from yankee (this happened)
- matches reversed (wouldn't change the end result)
- if smi got caught again, they'd be removed from yankee (hasn't happened yet)
also I'm not considering them as having earned 2nd place in Season 1 (asterisk)
... so uh, I don't really think your point of "the clan went unpunished" holds any weight. i didn't feel it was necessary to publicly warn them specifically because Spades' banning was already very public.
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The main deal I have is it seems that none of the stuff you bring up now leads to say he's definitely a hacker.
I'm 100% against hackers too, but I think one game with a few suspicious moves, in what is said to be a virtually hack-free environment (ICCup with AH on), is far from proof of someone hacking. However, look at your post announcing this incident:
You've stated that you made your decision based on this game alone, and not Se7en's previous (false) hack accusation, but you write...
The most important thing in this case is that just several months ago, Se7en(OD) was caught hacking, and it was confirmed through teamliquid.net, and even OD leadership admitted this and said he would be removed from the team (CHECK HERE).
and
Although there are only two replays of Se7en(OD) playing in Yankee League, one highly suspicious game is all the proof needed, based on this player's prior history of hacking less than 6 months ago, to conclude that there was hacking going on in this game.
Seems contradictory to your post stating that it had nothing to do with your accusation.
Also, your reasons for deeming him suspicious:
There are a lot of suspicious movements, of Se7en's army mirroring the movements of Zerg's army, the most telling moment is when Zerg is attempting to drop the 2nd main of Se7en, and without any vision, scouting, or prior notice of a drop at that specific location, moves his entire army directly to where Zerg's overlords are.
That "most telling moment" turned out to be nothing, as Se7en has vision of the drop before he reacted to it. You've not even addressed this, despite it being pointed out several times.
So, the two things that you said were the most damning in determining that Se7en is a hacker have turned out to be no proof at all. There are also several other "suspicious moves" of Se7en that are not actually suspicious (such as the DT not actually going straight to one prevoiusly unscouted expansion and leaving). You cannot truthfully say that your case now is nearly as strong as the one you've presented in your first post about this issue.
It is of course your decision alone to make, as we all know, but if you are worried about the integrity of your league, know that jumping the gun on banning/punishing people in your league is just as damaging as being too lax.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On July 10 2008 03:57 Xeris wrote:
well the punishment would have been;
- spades banned from yankee (this happened)
- matches reversed (wouldn't change the end result)
- if smi got caught again, they'd be removed from yankee (hasn't happened yet)
also I'm not considering them as having earned 2nd place in Season 1 (asterisk)
... so uh, I don't really think your point of "the clan went unpunished" holds any weight. i didn't feel it was necessary to publicly warn them specifically because Spades' banning was already very public.
You don't see the point in addressing a hacking situation in your own league just because it happened in the grand final...? Seriously?
Alright, it is at this time that I recognize what mentality I am dealing with! And back away slowly.
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United States10774 Posts
On July 10 2008 04:17 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2008 03:57 Xeris wrote:
well the punishment would have been;
- spades banned from yankee (this happened)
- matches reversed (wouldn't change the end result)
- if smi got caught again, they'd be removed from yankee (hasn't happened yet)
also I'm not considering them as having earned 2nd place in Season 1 (asterisk)
... so uh, I don't really think your point of "the clan went unpunished" holds any weight. i didn't feel it was necessary to publicly warn them specifically because Spades' banning was already very public.
You don't see the point in addressing a hacking situation in your own league just because it happened in the grand final...? Seriously? Alright, it is at this time that I recognize what mentality I am dealing with! And back away slowly.
...or because everyone already knew that Spades hacked in YL. Spades was banned, we were warned, and matches would have been reversed.
so...
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On July 10 2008 04:17 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2008 03:57 Xeris wrote:
well the punishment would have been;
- spades banned from yankee (this happened)
- matches reversed (wouldn't change the end result)
- if smi got caught again, they'd be removed from yankee (hasn't happened yet)
also I'm not considering them as having earned 2nd place in Season 1 (asterisk)
... so uh, I don't really think your point of "the clan went unpunished" holds any weight. i didn't feel it was necessary to publicly warn them specifically because Spades' banning was already very public.
You don't see the point in addressing a hacking situation in your own league just because it happened in the grand final...? Seriously? Alright, it is at this time that I recognize what mentality I am dealing with! And back away slowly.
I did address it. I felt no point in publicly bringing up a belabored point since he had been publicly banned everywhere (including Yankee) and sMi was warned. Again, I didn't do it publicly because the season was already finished, and it was already public.
If you don't care to read my posts then there's nothing I can do to help you.
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On July 10 2008 04:05 Fear_Chaos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The main deal I have is it seems that none of the stuff you bring up now leads to say he's definitely a hacker. I'm 100% against hackers too, but I think one game with a few suspicious moves, in what is said to be a virtually hack-free environment (ICCup with AH on), is far from proof of someone hacking. However, look at your post announcing this incident: You've stated that you made your decision based on this game alone, and not Se7en's previous (false) hack accusation, but you write... The most important thing in this case is that just several months ago, Se7en(OD) was caught hacking, and it was confirmed through teamliquid.net, and even OD leadership admitted this and said he would be removed from the team (CHECK HERE). and Although there are only two replays of Se7en(OD) playing in Yankee League, one highly suspicious game is all the proof needed, based on this player's prior history of hacking less than 6 months ago, to conclude that there was hacking going on in this game. Seems contradictory to your post stating that it had nothing to do with your accusation. Also, your reasons for deeming him suspicious: There are a lot of suspicious movements, of Se7en's army mirroring the movements of Zerg's army, the most telling moment is when Zerg is attempting to drop the 2nd main of Se7en, and without any vision, scouting, or prior notice of a drop at that specific location, moves his entire army directly to where Zerg's overlords are. That "most telling moment" turned out to be nothing, as Se7en has vision of the drop before he reacted to it. You've not even addressed this, despite it being pointed out several times. So, the two things that you said were the most damning in determining that Se7en is a hacker have turned out to be no proof at all. There are also several other "suspicious moves" of Se7en that are not actually suspicious (such as the DT not actually going straight to one prevoiusly unscouted expansion and leaving). You cannot truthfully say that your case now is nearly as strong as the one you've presented in your first post about this issue. It is of course your decision alone to make, as we all know, but if you are worried about the integrity of your league, know that jumping the gun on banning/punishing people in your league is just as damaging as being too lax.
all this discussion has been me explaining why I came to my decision. 3 pages worth. I already explained everything to you last night, I don't know why you are still referring to my original post.
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OD just defeated NrG in the first SemiFinal match with a 3-2 score and will advance to the Grand Final.
They will play the winner of LighT vs sMi , which will be played tomorrow.
check http://www.bwusa.org for more details!
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On July 10 2008 03:47 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2008 03:31 Xeris wrote:On July 10 2008 03:04 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
The "we" in this instance was Media finding out that they were laughing about this amongst each other. If you're asking if hotkeys were researched or if a SS was taken no. And "hacking" is synonomous with Dino so when he abuses by playing for someone it is more than safe to say he'd have no problem hacking on top of it. again, I will point out that: a) Media won the clanwar b) Spades was caught hacking weeks after the season. Ok, I will point out that regardless of timeframe the clan went unpunished (not even publicly warned). Regardless of when Spades was caught hacking, he was a prominant player while hacking in your season and you just ignored it and hoped that it wouldn't matter. You should have maintained the policy that hacking in your league is a punishable offense WIN OR LOSE. Your A/B point has NOTHING to do with him hacking against us and in your league.
Hey Geoff... California just legalized gay marriage... Just thought I would throw that out there for when were together for regionals...
....I know a chapel which is close to the lan center..... so yeah.... you have my number.... let me know...
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we won against sMi 3-2 today.
LighT [3-2] sMi
1v1 #1 Sadist[LighT] (T) (Python) sMi.dAemon (P) [1-0]
1v1 #2 SchiSm[LighT] (T) (Peaks) sMi.lols (Z) [2-0]
2v2: gOmi[LighT] + Louder[LighT] (PZ) (Hannibal) sMi.Froze + sMi.Fonger (??) [2-1]
1v1 #3: Loude[LighT] (P) (Zodiac) sMi.Fonger (T) [2-2]
Ace: SchiSm[LighT] (Othello) sMi.Frozen [3-2]
much closer than I suspected, sMi put up a really good fight O_O!
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schism with the clutch~ GJ all and congrats to light
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United States10774 Posts
On July 25 2008 12:49 Xeris wrote:
we won against sMi 3-2 today.
LighT [3-2] sMi
1v1 #1 Sadist[LighT] (T) (Python) sMi.dAemon (P) [1-0]
1v1 #2 SchiSm[LighT] (T) (Peaks) sMi.lols (Z) [2-0]
2v2: gOmi[LighT] + Louder[LighT] (PZ) (Hannibal) sMi.Froze + sMi.Fonger (??) [2-1]
1v1 #3: Loude[LighT] (P) (Zodiac) sMi.Fonger (T) [2-2]
Ace: SchiSm[LighT] (Othello) sMi.Frozen [3-2]
much closer than I suspected, sMi put up a really good fight O_O!
Frozen gone Froze!
gg light
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Yankee League Grand Final
OD vs LighT
1v1 #1 (Andromeda): NewbCrack (T) vs SchiSm (T)
1v1 #2 (Python): FitCH (Z) vs Future (P)
2v2 #1 (Hannibal): NewbCrack/Rise (TZ) vs GoMi/Moo (PZ)
1v1 #3 (Wuthering): Ivy77 (P) vs Sadist (T)
2v2 #2 (Vampire): FitCH/Ivy77 (PZ) vs Tear/Sun (TZ)
1v1 #4 (Othello): Rise (Z) vs Jumper (P)
Time and Place
Wednesday August 6th @ 9pm EST - op Yankee-1 on ICCUP
Admin/Caster
Quesadilla will be the main admin, Diggity will be the main shoutcaster
Goodluck Have fun both teams!!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a96/Weroe/bw/yankeeleague.jpg)
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