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+ Show Spoiler [Last vs Stork] +
CSS: FO-nTTaX
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[KSL3] Ro16 Day 10 - Group C/D Final Match
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Last vs Stork] + CSS: FO-nTTaX Banner: v1 | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
I am very excited for tonights matches. Action V Mini predictions: Historically, Action has the racial advantage and a very good map pool for this matchup but Mini is the better player. So much so, that Action is a huge underdog going into today. Action has had one of the strongest lategame zvts since he came on the scene but his zvp has never been of the same caliber and he is facing Mini during a time where zergs are getting crushed in the middlegame by very stable, adaptive sair, +1, 4gate speed then dt then temps then 8-9 gateways into third. Stork used this to just maul Jaedong last week and Snow used it to great effect last night vs Miso. I consider Action a huge underdog and think he will get trounced if he goes for a 5 hat or 6 hat mass hydra - no lurker middlegame. I will feel somewhat hopeful for him if he adopts the 7 hat ling-lurker approach that effort has used to great effect for years. If I see him going for 3 hat hydra, I will assume he has no answer strategically or mechanically for the refined but not new build refereed to above. Mini has been playing the sexist PvZ since old Bisu or super prime Stork. His zealot micro is the best in the world. His build accuracy and clear judgment allow him to exploit timings that only exist for him. He is the reason 1gate fe is now a safe and viable staple build and to top it all off - he is a sneaky, dirty, clever abuse master. We may have just lost the only zerg who can bang with him to the military... and I think he mangled him last (asl?) season as well. Mini will win unless Action can play better against protoss then he ever has (offline). Last vs Stork predictions: The racial advantage sits with Stork, I consider the map pool balanced for this matchup but I am willing to hear arguments on this. Stork is on the rise but I consider Last the superior tournament player.... the problem is... on his worst day, at his lowest point in broodwar... Stork could still take games off of Flash and any other terran. This matchup suits his skillset so well that against anyone else I would rate him as a significant favorite. Last is the best Terran playing in leagues right now. He is at or near the top of his game, last week, he lost a scrappy match against the best overall protoss in the world (Rain) and in the process he demonstrated a few moments of micro that were the cleanest of anybody playing terran. I want Last to win but I think Stork will. Something about the brutality with which he put down Jaedong really made me reevaluate things. Looking forward to a great night with you all. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + RIP Cursed as fuck lol | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
I hope I am wrong and you are right 8) | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On May 17 2019 19:00 AttackZerg wrote: It is my least sure prediction I have ever made. I hope I am wrong and you are right 8) at least yours aren't on the front page of the website  https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/547710-ksl3-ro16-week-5-preview-chaotic | ||
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Wonk
546 Posts
On May 17 2019 18:57 BLinD-RawR wrote: even on his best day stork won't beat last. I have it on good authority Last will take stork's firstborn and raise the child as terran if he 3:0s him, stork has everything on the line | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
On May 17 2019 18:57 BLinD-RawR wrote: even on his best day stork won't beat last. BELIEVE! There was this quote from the preview statistically speaking right now PvT is Stork’s weakest matchup(8W-14L 36.4%) and he has been playing Flash a lot I hope that "playing Flash a lot" isn't referring to the 8-14 record, because that's not terrible against Flash haha I assume that's not what it means, though  Don't get time to watch players' streams. EDIT: The preview written by you, hah | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
On May 17 2019 19:02 BLinD-RawR wrote: at least yours aren't on the front page of the website https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/547710-ksl3-ro16-week-5-preview-chaotic Thanks for the link. We agreed last night. Tonight, complete opposites. Your Action pick... is suspect 8) I would rather be wrong twice, then lose Last 8) | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On May 17 2019 19:06 Turbovolver wrote: BELIEVE! There was this quote from the preview I hope that "playing Flash a lot" isn't referring to the 8-14 record, because that's not terrible against Flash haha I assume that's not what it means, though Don't get time to watch players' streams. EDIT: The preview written by you, hah are the banners so unclear that people can't tell who wrote which piece? well its feedback | ||
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rotta
5585 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On May 17 2019 19:11 rotta wrote: Pylon good unit one of mini's favorites | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
On May 17 2019 19:09 BLinD-RawR wrote: I only wrote the preview between last and stork. Sorry, that's what I meant, that was the part I was quoting from | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
Like I said, this is his best shot. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
Straight up muscled him. Mini is so strong. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3999 Posts
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BlackJack
United States10429 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
Muta-> lurker ->4th.. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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rotta
5585 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3999 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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repomaniak
Poland324 Posts
any1 has a link? | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4173 Posts
GG! | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
Tired of this hydra or bust middle game zerg. Lings are the best unit in the game. wtf guys. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3999 Posts
On May 17 2019 19:51 AttackZerg wrote: Mini is not playing as cleanly as he has been. I think that is a testament to Action. Tired of this hydra or bust middle game zerg. Lings are the best unit in the game. wtf guys. yeah hydra play is a lazy way of dealing with corsair, but ultimately not good. I want to see more lurker-ling into defiler-ultra play! | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
I hope he transitions to a strong middlegame. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
EDIT: Thanks! | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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ggsimida
1148 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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[AS]Rattus
427 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
Forced 7 cannons - lurker hydra hat contain -> straight into double pronged hydra lurker drop. 2 s.gates made it possible. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
So many defendable bases. Hard to prevent toss getting to 4 base if that is there goal. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
Action is playing his best zvp I've seen from him in this match. Although his storm dodges mostly suck. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On May 17 2019 20:28 Turbovolver wrote: The thread is silent as we all watch with intense interest. A really back and forth game, Action doing really well LR threads have been silent all season tho | ||
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Wonk
546 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
And... ya know... it is totally possible to get hoobastanked by 1 gate fe with a 12 hat opening on any map let alone one without a natural as choke. Very impressed by Action so far. Mini seems to be struggling out of the opening, something we haven't seen from him for a while. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On May 17 2019 20:30 NoS-Craig wrote: Most people are either in chat or discord these days I think. true enough but I would like it if more people were here so they can at least vote on the polls, also discussion here is more long form. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
Error, with your powers alone 8). | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On May 17 2019 20:33 AttackZerg wrote: Rawr - with our powers combined, by the finals, this place will be popping. Error, with your powers alone 8). hahaha no, this will not be a solo endeavor my friend | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
please double den again | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
Seems to invite hydra to be good. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3999 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3809 Posts
"oh wait I need those to defend"? : ( | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
One game 290 - another 400-410. Not peaks but baseline average. | ||
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Kimb3r
Germany744 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
On May 17 2019 20:48 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: the case when 2 extra sunkens would save this base, 3 hatcheries and the game ... Or the ability to morph 2 hydra into eggs on a ramp, although, he may have had enough to win even if we combined ideas. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
On May 17 2019 20:56 Kimb3r wrote: Results plx?! 3-2 mini wins. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
Those hydras were only half a map away but it might as well have been a different planet for how long they took to get back. | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
I wrote Stork off recently but he's been playing well recently. Wouldn't be a shock for him to beat last | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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Kimb3r
Germany744 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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Kimb3r
Germany744 Posts
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Arvendilin
Germany1878 Posts
On May 17 2019 21:23 BLinD-RawR wrote: what the hell is going on with last Nerves playing against a father, Stork probably showed him a pictuire of his kid and talked about how he needs to make money to sustain his family, getting into Lasts head | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
On May 17 2019 21:23 BLinD-RawR wrote: what the hell is going on with last The barracks going down was painful, but I'm not sure what else has really been bad from him | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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Kimb3r
Germany744 Posts
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Arvendilin
Germany1878 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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Terra1
Philippines312 Posts
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razorsuKe
Canada2000 Posts
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SirGlinG
Sweden933 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
What a dominant display. I think he learned from the Rain playbook. Maybe starting with a 17+ minute game in game one, physically and emotionally tires a terran out. If Stork goes for a fast game now. I think he is playing against his stamina. | ||
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On May 17 2019 21:32 AttackZerg wrote: Kim - Stork won game 1. What a dominant display. I think he learned from the Rain playbook. Maybe starting with a 17+ minute game in game one, physically and emotionally tires a terran out. If Stork goes for a fast game now. I think he is playing against his stamina. Last has some severe wrist issues atm | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
That makes serious sense. Versus Rain he seemed to fatigue. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On May 17 2019 21:37 AttackZerg wrote: That makes serious sense. Versus Rain he seemed to fatigue. just to be clear this was his interview when he won ASL https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/544465-asl7-grand-finals-champion-interview | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
But I am old ... so 8) | ||
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Wonk
546 Posts
On May 17 2019 21:37 BLinD-RawR wrote: Last is 26....hes not that young by esports standards I feel like they're always mentioning how young he is, but he's only like a year younger than flash I think. Seems like playing terran is the truly destroyer of bodies, not age | ||
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Kimb3r
Germany744 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
On May 17 2019 21:38 BLinD-RawR wrote: just to be clear this was his interview when he won ASL https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/544465-asl7-grand-finals-champion-interview Wow. What a stud. Poor guy. Can't even practice without pain 8( | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On May 17 2019 21:38 Wonk wrote: I feel like they're mentioning how young he is, but he's only like a year younger than flash I think. Seems like playing terran is the truly destroyer of bodies, not age and you'd think playing zerg would destroy your body. playing protoss destroys your soul though, thats a fact. | ||
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Terra1
Philippines312 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
On May 17 2019 21:39 Kimb3r wrote: How is g2 going??? Stork just did a nice bust while Last trying to take third, using double shuttles. He lost the reaver quickly but it did its job. He hasn't won the game off it, and the third is going up, but he has carriers coming. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
I'm a pretender | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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Arvendilin
Germany1878 Posts
On May 17 2019 21:45 Turbovolver wrote: The thing I always loved about Stork is watching him just break into positions that look like they won't be broken. I'm not saying that last moment was a perfect example of that, but I feel like it was the quality most notable about Stork PvT. Always knowing when he could just make that push into a deathball and come out on top, while so many other (even top) protosses played scared and relied on arbiter tricks, taking the whole map, etc. Yea, I remember some other Remaster PvT against Last specifically where it looked like he would NEVER be able to take a couple fights but he managed to win them | ||
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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Terra1
Philippines312 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
On May 17 2019 21:47 BLinD-RawR wrote: AttackZerg is a saint I'm a pretender After 20 years of broodwar, I wait for the lady to sing. Last can do anything (except winning 3-0  | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On May 17 2019 21:48 Arvendilin wrote: Yea, I remember some other Remaster PvT against Last specifically where it looked like he would NEVER be able to take a couple fights but he managed to win them its was on FS in ASL4 | ||
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BlackJack
United States10429 Posts
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structuralinertia
Australia1426 Posts
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Arvendilin
Germany1878 Posts
Yes ASL4, that was insane | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
PvT has always been his home. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
On May 17 2019 21:55 Xain0n wrote: Stork is doing well but I think we are witnessing again the crippled, weakened version of Last who had to cheese his way out of groupstages in ASL 7. I wonder about this. Watching him play (slightly distractedly because I'm also trying to work a bit) I'm not seeing obvious moments where he looks off, but it's also very hard to judge just from what you obviously see on the screen because a player can make no obvious mistakes but simply be slower to macro, and the game result is the summation of a lot of tiny little disadvantages accrued from mechanics just being that little bit delayed. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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Kimb3r
Germany744 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
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Terra1
Philippines312 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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razorsuKe
Canada2000 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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Terra1
Philippines312 Posts
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razorsuKe
Canada2000 Posts
On May 17 2019 17:29 AttackZerg wrote: I want Last to win but I think Stork will. Something about the brutality with which he put down Jaedong really made me reevaluate things. Looking forward to a great night with you all. nobody believed you man, but you knew. you just KNEW | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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N.geNuity
United States5112 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
On May 17 2019 22:06 razorsuKe wrote: nobody believed you man, but you knew. you just KNEW Being right sucks. Poor last 8( | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On May 17 2019 22:09 N.geNuity wrote: if stork doesnt hit soulkey he really can make it all the way How strong is his PvP? Rain totally destroyed Stork... | ||
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Arvendilin
Germany1878 Posts
On May 17 2019 22:09 N.geNuity wrote: if stork doesnt hit soulkey he really can make it all the way I'd say Rain, Rain is insane in PvP looked better than Stork | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
On May 17 2019 22:09 N.geNuity wrote: if stork doesnt hit soulkey he really can make it all the way I am loathe to say it, but, I think Rain will be his toughest potential opponent EDIT: Apparently I'm not alone in that thought, heh | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
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Arvendilin
Germany1878 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
On May 17 2019 22:11 AttackZerg wrote: Last is fighting so heroically from soooo far behind. Yeah he really is, I would like to retract the "falling apart" comment even if it was quite true at the time | ||
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Szinkler
Hungary394 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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Terra1
Philippines312 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On May 17 2019 18:57 BLinD-RawR wrote: even on his best day stork won't beat last. famous last words | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
I still agree with this even after watching those games. How did that happen? | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
See all (and more!) of you next week. Now to sleep through Friday. Cheers! | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
They were your first worss to me ( | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On May 17 2019 22:16 Greg_J wrote: I still agree with this even after watching those games. How did that happen? literally everything went right for stork and everything went wrong for last. Last was literally the definition of Murphy's Law | ||
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KinoKuno
United States6 Posts
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ggsimida
1148 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
very entertaining nonetheless, people can still surprise me in this game after all these years. | ||
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N.geNuity
United States5112 Posts
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repomaniak
Poland324 Posts
KSL Tastois its a red archon KSL Tastosis melee storm KSL Tastosis eating at denny's KSL Tastosis "action" KSL Artosis 1st e-sports journalist KSL cheer KSL Artosis glasscanons KSL Artosis he is a progamer tasteless KSL cheer mini plane? KSL Artosis brothers KSL Artosis chance to miss vs highground KSL cheer i love you KSL cheer realistic KSL cheers KSL Tasteless scvs more hp than marines KSL scvs in a bunker KSL Tasteless where is your GOD now KSL Mini interview KSL Stork interview | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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goody153
44101 Posts
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On May 17 2019 22:29 BLinD-RawR wrote: 9 page LR thread, and here I thought it was a fruitless effort to make these. When Storku plays you can be confident I'll make some posts pertaining to that information despite not showing up until after he won. | ||
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19229 Posts
On May 17 2019 22:20 BLinD-RawR wrote: very entertaining nonetheless, people can still surprise me in this game after all these years. I think you lose credibility as a writer if you say 3-0 for Stork on a whim. But saying Last wins 3-0 is a reasonable statement. If they re-matched right now, Last would probably 3-0. Stork really just buckled down and was prepared to fight in that moment. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On May 17 2019 23:45 BisuDagger wrote: I think you lose credibility as a writer if you say 3-0 for Stork on a whim. But saying Last wins 3-0 is a reasonable statement. If they re-matched right now, Last would probably 3-0. Stork really just buckled down and was prepared to fight in that moment. maybe, but would have been the absolute madman call of my life if I called it the other way. | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On May 17 2019 23:59 BLinD-RawR wrote: maybe, but would have been the absolute madman call of my life if I called it the other way. If you called it the other way I'd recommend buying a lottery ticket, although that's probably a bit of stretch. | ||
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oshibori_probe
United States2933 Posts
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On May 18 2019 00:49 arbiter_md wrote: I remember the days when Best was monster PvP and everyone was confident he's unbeatable in PvP. Until he met Stork. If you think Rain can stop Stork, read some history books kids. Stork is one of the KeSpa player who transitioned the worst, he has been a pale shade of his former self. | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
But we have Best/Stork now, don't we? | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19229 Posts
The keys to Mini’s success come in how he handles his opening builds and his map draws. The maps he wants to play on are Circuit Breakers, Cross Game, and Overwatch. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/nS21gbb.png) | ||
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oshibori_probe
United States2933 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19229 Posts
On May 18 2019 01:36 oshibori_probe wrote: Yup and best v stork will be a good series. As much as I love stork, Rain has the best PvP in the history of BW and can lose the Rock Paper Scissors aspect of the matchup but still win. Bisu would like to say otherwise. He could have an arguably higher score if he didn't go to the military and he holds the highest elo peak in the Kespa era. Post-Kespa Bisu vP: 23-3 (88.46%) Rain vP: 27-8 (77.14%) Bisu also had a similar record between the end of 2008 and 2009 where his record was 25 wins - 5 losses (83.33%) . It took him six months and over 30 games before he recorded two consecutive losses in the matchup. To wrap it up, Rain has only played Bisu once in his career and lost in that match. However, it was an amazing game and he truly is a worthy disciple of Bisu. He just can't be considered the greatest. | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
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Puosu
6985 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
I seem to remember some protoss pressing him fairly hard, failing at a large goon attack and getting judo slammed into the ground? PvP is very unforgiving and if I am remembering correctly, Rain has been beastly +70%(?). If we use Last as a metric, Stork looked miles better but Rain is a repeat champion for a reason. He controls match tempo better then anyone else. He is the reverse Soulkey, who seems to be okay with any game fork and equally prepared to improv or just run a build script. Normally, 1 zerg would have me bummed, but this will be a great ro8 regardless. | ||
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nahyunjung
40 Posts
On May 18 2019 00:49 arbiter_md wrote: I remember the days when Best was monster PvP and everyone was confident he's unbeatable in PvP. Until he met Stork. If you think Rain can stop Stork, read some history books kids. What do I need a history book for? Rain just beat Stork 3-0 April 26th lol... Anyways they would both have to make the finals if they're going to play again in this tournament and I really don't see that happening. Lots of interesting matchups coming up regardless of the results. | ||
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Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
In PvP it's hard to play around someone who is superior with unit control and army movement, like Rain. | ||
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razorsuKe
Canada2000 Posts
On May 18 2019 08:28 Chronopolis wrote: Stork has really good PvT strategy, but you could see his control wasn't truly top tier. Forgotten shuttles, dragoons not pulled back at the right movement. In PvP it's hard to play around someone who is superior with unit control and army movement, like Rain. Stork's always been like that though lol | ||
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Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
Yeah, it's true. I'm just saying the excellence he demonstrated yesterday isn't going to be particularly helpful when facing off against Rain. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On May 18 2019 10:30 Chronopolis wrote: ? intelligence and well crafted builds work wonders in every match up, which is why stork was historically dominant. He certainly wasnt winning his pvps based on his mechanical superiority...Yeah, it's true. I'm just saying the excellence he demonstrated yesterday isn't going to be particularly helpful when facing off against Rain. | ||
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
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Miragee
8498 Posts
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Miragee
8498 Posts
On May 18 2019 10:30 Chronopolis wrote: Yeah, it's true. I'm just saying the excellence he demonstrated yesterday isn't going to be particularly helpful when facing off against Rain. Eh, Stork was fantastic with Shuttles back in the day iirc? Actually he had fantastic everything back in the day, unless he was playing WoW instead of practicing BW... On May 18 2019 16:22 Malongo wrote: I just realized that Stork's mechanics may be be better then his younger self (He may not be top dog in micro or army movement but he is no pushover either). Quite impressive for a guy whos TLDP starts in 2004. I don't think his mechanics are better than in the Kespa era. Just no, actually. But he has improved so much from the last tourney, it's incredible. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
Nowadays, Jaedong is sadly gone and Last may appear from Flashlike to b-tier before of his wrists; Best should be a much more meanigful test. | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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Ideas
United States8085 Posts
On May 18 2019 18:26 Miragee wrote: Eh, Stork was fantastic with Shuttles back in the day iirc? Actually he had fantastic everything back in the day, unless he was playing WoW instead of practicing BW... I don't think his mechanics are better than in the Kespa era. Just no, actually. But he has improved so much from the last tourney, it's incredible. yeah people are acting like Stork had noticeably inadequate mechanics back in the kespa days but as far as I remember he was incredibly good (like top3-top5 protoss) in mechanics in pretty much every category. He had notably lower APM than most pros (although still way higher than Movie lol) but his eAPM was quite good if I remember correctly. Like his strategic play is what put him over the top but he was still also one of the best in every other category. Watch his Incruit OSL run, he fucking destroys everyone. Although a caveat was that he was probably the most inconstant of the TBLS group, with more slumps than any of them and did way worse in proleague (although almost definitely had more finals/semifinals/quarterfinals appearances than bisu, especially from 2010-2012 ). I think people tend to exaggerate aspects of people's play too much. Like how because Stork was most known for his PvT people acted like his PvZ was awful even though he was actually also quite good at it (top 3 peak PvZ ELO). Or how people forget that Jaedong had amazing late-game TvZ skills (arguably the best ever during his peak) but since he was even better at just killing Ts with early-mid game aggression that is the only part people remember about him. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
Indeed Stork has been basically sleeping except a few great showings like in ASL 4 v Last and then 5 or 6 that great storm drop and group win against Horang2 so I'm holding my breath until the series against Best but I think there is now plenty of reasons for hope. Hoping to see a solid win against Best. I'd add to the discussion about mechanics that I see it as a dormant skill such as cycling. Given that Stork would play maybe 30 games a month or so and now plays double, triple for months while obviously his skill won't match the pro days it is expected that his mechanics will get smoother and better with the increased repetition of game-skills being in use. | ||
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Rasalased
89 Posts
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
On May 19 2019 12:59 Alpha-NP- wrote: After Stork beat Jaedong AND Last, I can see the argument that the sky is the limit for this guy. He might just upset Best and Mini. Mini if his nerves crack. I'd think Best is a harder opponent than Mini vP for Stork. Not sure about and can't check right now his spon record vs them but that's my hunch. | ||
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oxKnu
1179 Posts
If you watch their streams even semi-regularly you'll see that Rain automatically resorts to Best to train for a tournament if he has a PvP on the line. Personally I think Snow is in the discussion as well but his style and build choices are a bit more flaky than those of Best. However, it's still PvP so by default the margins are quite small, especially at the top pro level. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
Stork is a very rare circumstance. He is a former champion who has defeated g.o.a.ts until he became one. Former champions have a special type of capability in the later stages of tournaments. My example is from the chess world, Vishey Anand after losing his title and being ranked outside of the top 5 was able to fight his way back to next world championship qualifying over players that regularly out perform him and out rate him. Experience plays a huge role in broodwar success. I am not predicting a Stork win, but at this point he is a near coin flip versus anyone. The first game of each match will most likely give us a the clues we need as to "which stork showed up". Tournament wise: Soulkey is hard to pick against, esp with so few terran and no zergs. There are only interesting matchups left no matter who wins. Maybe it's temporal bias but this KSL has been way better then the last (despite my dude losing ) | ||
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Ideas
United States8085 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
Stork can't help himself to not make carriers (c) Tastosis | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
TLPD is beyond me these days, if I could find the awesome I would. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4731 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On May 20 2019 02:12 AttackZerg wrote: My only Best PvP memory is that he pulled off some crazy winrate at one point. 88% or something nutty. TLPD is beyond me these days, if I could find the awesome I would. A winning streak of 17 games between April and October in 2008. Best's PvP is historically slightly better than Stork's and I'm not sold on the resurrection of the latter, I think and hope Best will at least reach KSL's finals. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
Back in the day, Stork's PvP was strong, and indeed his reaver+shuttle control was top tier, he was one of the people doing the whole "reaver as midgame battle, not harass unit" stuff since wayyyyy back when | ||
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Ideas
United States8085 Posts
On May 20 2019 11:11 Turbovolver wrote: Yeah I don't know why there are people saying that Stork's control was always horrible. It's certainly looked horrible in the recent PvPs of his I've seen, and so the observation that his control was suboptimal here but it didn't matter because of his amazing PvT strategy feels right. Back in the day, Stork's PvP was strong, and indeed his reaver+shuttle control was top tier, he was one of the people doing the whole "reaver as midgame battle, not harass unit" stuff since wayyyyy back when IIRC he was basically killing every terran in 2007-2008 with reaver into 2-base carrier until flash created a build tailor-made to stop it basically. | ||
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ggsimida
1148 Posts
in the end i never expected much of a 30+ year old dude with a family to feed, his overall control, decision making and experience still impresses me anyway | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
On May 20 2019 06:19 Xain0n wrote: A winning streak of 17 games between April and October in 2008. Best's PvP is historically slightly better than Stork's and I'm not sold on the resurrection of the latter, I think and hope Best will at least reach KSL's finals. Thank you, and if I am at all accurate, wasn't that streak from his breakout into the pro scene up through a a few leagues. I think he dominated pvp is for a while. I guese 6 months without a loss is a long time. Best is one of the few pro gamers whose modern play does not resemble in anyway his old play at all. I remember him as god macro toss in pvz and pvt and a force of nature in pvp. | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
The revival of Brood War's golden age. We need new blood to cement it. But this is a lot of fun as is. | ||
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