[ASL6] Semifinals B - Flash vs Shuttle - Page 17

On October 25 2018 04:10 kidcrash wrote:
The statistics speak for themselves for the races as a whole.

https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/82758-tlpd-ask-for-stats

Granted I did choose to bring this up in the shuttle vs flash thread, however, I'm not necessarily singling out this series. Shuttle was obviously out classed here.

On October 25 2018 17:21 Athinira wrote:


As for the League statistics. Yes, Terran is on top, but consider that many of them have been won by Flash. In fact, if remove Flash from the statistics there (counting only premier and major tournaments) and assuming the runner-up would have been the winner, the result comes out as follows:
- 37 tournament wins for Terran
- 41 tournament wins for Zerg
- 24 tournament wins for Protoss

I don't think anyone is gonna argue that the game is perfectly balanced. But people asking for upgrade nerfs are barking up the wrong tree, plain and simple. It's a poor balancing act. Rather, it seems like perhaps Protoss could use some help against Zerg. But arguing for Terran nerfs because Flash is a monster is poor judgement.

On October 26 2018 04:31 Barneyk wrote:
I really like how someone said that BW is balanced around every race being OP.

Dark Swarm is just a ridiculously overpowered spell, plague is crazy, storms is insane, recall is just silly, siege tanks are just not fair, repair is imba and SCVs having 50% more etc. etc. etc.

Terran is probably the race with the biggest strengths, but also the biggest weaknesses and the race that requires the most of the player. Like, a move 2 marines vs 1 zealot and the zealot tear the marines to shreds without taking much damage. But micro them perfectly and they kill the zealot without taking damage.

And the siege tanks requires a lot of game knowledge and understanding of the flow to utilize perfectly, if you make a mistake it is easy to overwhelm them. And the other races can exploit that if they have the skills to do so.

But right now, Flash is just a step above everyone else and the game isn't as even as it was during the Kespa and team house era, and there isn't as many players that really perform at the top level that can beat how solid Flash is or break down his play in practice etc.

There is always a question of map balance and how the map balance changes as the meta changes.

What I am trying to say, as a awful player with my very shallow analysis of the game is that Terran doesn't need a nerf and it is silly that, there are some maps that are Terran favored, but there are also some maps that are biased against Terran. The map pool has to be tweaked as the meta changes. But Flash is the best player around by a pretty wide margin, his game sense, his deep understanding of the game as he shows again and again when he analyzes the games etc, him also winning a lot just makes sense then does it not?

Last crushing Jaedong was disappointing as a huge JD fan, but I was also really happy for Last as he has been one of the best players in the world since remastered came out and he finally got a win in a tournament. And he just played better. I am really sad to hear how badly fans reacted to it and how personal Last took it.

The amount of balance whine in this thread is just sad...

On October 25 2018 16:23 Ota Solgryn wrote:
Anyone having problem with PvT "balance" here should watch a bunch of Snow vs Flash games on youtube and see exactly how a top PvT'er can compete with Flash. A player who understands how to ABUSE protoss units and to ABUSE maps to split up terran SLOOOOW army.

Watching Snow play PvT, is like watching Bisu play PvZ. It looks so ridiculesly hard to play against, these players who understand how to abuse protoss. Which is what protoss needs to do.

On October 26 2018 12:57 Dante08 wrote:


It's funny because Flash is the only good TvP player right now. Rain/Snow/Mini/Best are tearing Terrans apart and there's no Terran other than Flash I would favour in a BO5 with these 4.

On October 26 2018 15:07 BigFan wrote:

Pretty much, but I mean Flash is Terran so it must mean that Terran is OP and Tesagi is real! No, it can't be that Flash is that much better than the competition, that we see expros play like chobos and we see others play like they have been defeated before even playing. Just sad.

On October 26 2018 17:35 Yanokabo wrote:
I don’t think any other terrans can touch flash. Tvt is a chess matchup where you can get lucky on build order at times but nobody seems to be able to take him mechanicahlly. Last had the best shot of anyone but I think his odd were under 5% and he lost anyway so we won’t find out.

On October 24 2018 03:58 Dantak wrote:

Or just subscribe to this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGIx6XUmoVMf01PVrOjVbRA

On October 24 2018 12:30 Motivate wrote:
I think Rapid has shown considerable improvement already. I hope he continues to improve and show more of an analytical/strategic side to things.

On October 25 2018 17:21 Athinira wrote:

Exactly in what way do they speak for themselves?

Terran has a 53.85% winrate against Zerg, which in turn has a 53.46% winrate against Protoss, which then again has a 51.09% winrate against Terran.

So Protoss already outclass Terran by a small margin, and Mech upgrade nerfs hurts TvP more than TvZ, so how again is that the correct approach?

As for the League statistics. Yes, Terran is on top, but consider that many of them have been won by Flash. In fact, if remove Flash from the statistics there (counting only premier and major tournaments) and assuming the runner-up would have been the winner, the result comes out as follows:
- 37 tournament wins for Terran
- 41 tournament wins for Zerg
- 24 tournament wins for Protoss

I don't think anyone is gonna argue that the game is perfectly balanced. But people asking for upgrade nerfs are barking up the wrong tree, plain and simple. It's a poor balancing act. Rather, it seems like perhaps Protoss could use some help against Zerg. But arguing for Terran nerfs because Flash is a monster is poor judgement.