EPTSad about Mong, his TvZ on Gold Rush felt shaky for some reason. His TvT wasn't too bad, Sharp just played extremely well there. As for the last game, while I agree that Killer was solid overall, I feel like part of that was Sharp going 5 rax and not being able to do much with it (as much as he could at least). I'll have to watch the game again but I'm an advocate of a player going spire+den around the same time. One of the zerg players that I play against does this all the time. I'm forced to get turrets incase of mutalisks and I have to be careful incase of hold lurkers so I have to get comsats. I think this move definitely has its benefits and drawbacks.
[ASL4] Ro16 Group A - Page 17
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Sad about Mong, his TvZ on Gold Rush felt shaky for some reason. His TvT wasn't too bad, Sharp just played extremely well there. As for the last game, while I agree that Killer was solid overall, I feel like part of that was Sharp going 5 rax and not being able to do much with it (as much as he could at least). I'll have to watch the game again but I'm an advocate of a player going spire+den around the same time. One of the zerg players that I play against does this all the time. I'm forced to get turrets incase of mutalisks and I have to be careful incase of hold lurkers so I have to get comsats. I think this move definitely has its benefits and drawbacks. | ||
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Headshot
United States1656 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On September 25 2017 11:32 Headshot wrote: When is the Ro16 group B? Can't find it on the calendar anywhere. Tuesday, Sep 26 10:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) | ||
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orvinreyes
577 Posts
On September 25 2017 12:14 Alejandrisha wrote: in g1 if baxter had brought 1 lurker with those guards.. man.. i was thinking the same thing. maybe it was the nerves. he could've brought in all those 6+ lurkers to Flash's natural while his marines were distracted with the guardians. it might not have not ended the game right there but would have dealt enough damage since Flash's army was off position. | ||
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traxamillion
104 Posts
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orvinreyes
577 Posts
On September 25 2017 14:10 traxamillion wrote: Woulda been very hard to get lurkers to flashes 3rd without drop/speed tech there which there is no way he could have. If he just tries to run a couple lurkers all he way across the map he is virtually certain to run nto mines Looking at the minimap, i think that was certainly his plan. he was mine-clearing with lings to create a path for lurkers at the time he a-moved his guardians. It looked like some timing issue of sorts. Flash is just really good at keeping the aggression up to throw off these timing attacks. Here's the exact moment, you can see Killer's POV box was on his ling lurks: | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
On September 25 2017 00:29 Liquid`Ret wrote: the initial muta harass on the 2nd gas was great, it was a weak spot, and it prevented gas income. this 'free 3rd base you speak of', given the map layout both guys get a free 3rd base, I don't remember exactly how many units flash had, but, given he had 5 barracks producing marines, and at least 6-8 marines at home, no way anything couldve been done about this 'free 3rd base'. it was 5 or 6 marines guarding the building cc with no medics, he couldve easily delayed that for much time or even cancel the cc and staying in game with 1 expo over terran for longer time. I also feel Sharp couldve won the final game if he stick to Flash play, by taking fast 3rd and be on equal bases to zerg, but instead he suicided like 10 marines into natural for no reason while these could be defending his 3rd cc then he can roll the zerg easier. These guardians at the natural wouldve been still a pain to deal with tho. | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
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Barneyk
Sweden305 Posts
On September 25 2017 11:32 Headshot wrote: When is the Ro16 group B? Can't find it on the calendar anywhere. I check here to see the schedule for events: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Afreeca_Starleague_Season_4 | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On September 25 2017 11:18 BigFan wrote: On the other hand, when you scan you can see the larva count to determine which tech path hes going. If hes spending his larva and going mutas regardless, there going to be delayed and far less effective -- combine that with an scv scout or something, it shouldnt be that hard to determine. Definitely not at the top level. Zergs used to do this all the time in 06 and 07, especially in the foreign community. It generally got phased out as people believed the cost wasnt worth the small chance you would trick the terran.Great to see Flash and Killer advancing. Killer's mutalisk micro at Flash's back expansion was extremely impressive and reminiscent of his mutalisk micro during the Sonic era. It was clean, on point, caused lots of damage etc... Guardians as mentioned was questionable but maybe he had a plan in mind and it failed due to Flash mining that area at 1/2 o'clock or something. Sad about Mong, his TvZ on Gold Rush felt shaky for some reason. His TvT wasn't too bad, Sharp just played extremely well there. As for the last game, while I agree that Killer was solid overall, I feel like part of that was Sharp going 5 rax and not being able to do much with it (as much as he could at least). I'll have to watch the game again but I'm an advocate of a player going spire+den around the same time. One of the zerg players that I play against does this all the time. I'm forced to get turrets incase of mutalisks and I have to be careful incase of hold lurkers so I have to get comsats. I think this move definitely has its benefits and drawbacks. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28669 Posts
 back when every protoss was doing forge FE, if there was a probe in my base, I'd often wait for the pool to finish and then build 2 drones and 1 ling so he would still make cannon before nexus, whereas if I continuously built drones while the pool was building, he'd know he would at most be hit by 2 lings and go nexus first. So if you're building a hydra den and a spire, you stop making stuff when spire has 360 hp or whatever, it looks like you are saving up larva for muta, then you make 3 hydra and 6 drones instead. lost mining time is negligible (say you build 2 of the drones 20 seconds later than you otherwise would have, and you increase the chance of fooling terran into spending 450 on turrets by even 20%, that is really worth it), and as long as you don't let it go beyond 3 larvae then you didn't lose any production. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On September 25 2017 23:14 Liquid`Drone wrote: you can as zerg save up 3 larvae that you spend on hydra drone ling when spire finishes back when every protoss was doing forge FE, if there was a probe in my base, I'd often wait for the pool to finish and then build 2 drones and 1 ling so he would still make cannon before nexus, whereas if I continuously built drones while the pool was building, he'd know he would at most be hit by 2 lings and go nexus first. So if you're building a hydra den and a spire, you stop making stuff when spire has 360 hp or whatever, it looks like you are saving up larva for muta, then you make 3 hydra and 6 drones instead. lost mining time is negligible (say you build 2 of the drones 20 seconds later than you otherwise would have, and you increase the chance of fooling terran into spending 450 on turrets by even 20%, that is really worth it), and as long as you don't let it go beyond 3 larvae then you didn't lose any production.It's amazing how these small details make BW so dynamic and complex. A perfect game design example of how less is more. And also despite how 'slow' the game is (as opposed to SC2, LoL, CS, etc.), pros are still able to eke edges out of the slimmest of timings that makes the difference between winning and losing BW so beautiful, so timeless! | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On September 24 2017 21:22 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: is this devourer thing normal now it doesnt seem that useful. as far as i can tell the 2 devourers did absolutely nothing v flash, and killed a rax v sharp is there some hidden genius that i'm missing it...preempts wraiths? Zero used Guardian/Devourer against Last on Outsider (and won the game) in that post-ASL2 team league in which Soulkey beat Flash. (Hopefully that description is adequate even though I don't remember the name of the team league or have a URL for the VOD.) I have also seen Devourer use by either Jaedong or Larva in their ZvT once in recent months. Either progamers are experimenting with Devourers paired with Guardians, or they have already concluded it's optimal. Probably the former. It's definitely not the first time I see them in the post-KeSPA era, but they are only used a fraction (33--50%?) of the time that Guardians are used, and Guardians are seldom used. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On September 26 2017 06:05 Djabanete wrote: Zero used Guardian/Devourer against Last on Outsider (and won the game) in that post-ASL2 team league in which Soulkey beat Flash. (Hopefully that description is adequate even though I don't remember the name of the team league or have a URL for the VOD.) I have also seen Devourer use by either Jaedong or Larva in their ZvT once in recent months. Either progamers are experimenting with Devourers paired with Guardians, or they have already concluded it's optimal. Probably the former. It's definitely not the first time I see them in the post-KeSPA era, but they are only used a fraction (33--50%?) of the time that Guardians are used, and Guardians are seldom used. The name of the team league was Afreeca Team Battle, aka ATB. Ya, ZerO beat Last using them but from what I remember, ZerO caused eco damage and such early on to take a small advantage maybe? | ||
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ortseam
996 Posts
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conTAgi0n
United States335 Posts
MY BOY BABY JAEDONG IS BACK It was so much fun watching his growth back in the KeSPA days, very glad to see him looking this good in 2017, and just after finishing his military service too. Killer is definitely a player who still has a lot of potential to grow. | ||
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quirinus
Croatia2489 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
Had a bad feeling about ro16 but I am happy to see that I was wrong. Flash for the win! | ||
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