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On February 19 2017 07:21 SCC-Faust wrote:
I don't really like talking about balance, but from a spectator standpoint it is really brutal to watch ZvT.
In the scenarios where the Zerg can't get map control to establish their third base, the game is pretty much already over. It isn't even semi-exciting in the "Let's root for the underdog" kind of way, because it is more like "Lets hope the Terran player has an aneurysm so the Zerg has a chance". It is also really brutal from a spectator standpoint to watch PvZ in the scenarios where the Protoss can't get map control to establish a third base. Or in the scenarios where the Zerg keeps doing 3hatch Spire into 5hatch Hydra and Protoss predictably dies to a bust...
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Japan11285 Posts
Last and FlaSh didn't bring back 5-rax. It started becoming a thing when Mind and Mong started using it way back (they were dominating everyone back then too, minus Free and Bisu) and it gradually became brutal then the rest is history.
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On February 18 2017 22:31 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2017 22:09 Zera wrote:On February 18 2017 21:31 [[Starlight]] wrote:But can anybody really beat Flash in ZvT right now? Consistently?  Seems kinda moot to argue which Z is the best one to serve up on a platter to him. JD getting back to peak form can't come soon enough. The answer is probably no sadly Change the map pool. That's the best answer.
Yep, but specifically how? Just simply maps that offer Zerg a better chance to take and hold a gas third?
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Damn EffOrt, you've fallen from your 2015 Bisu wrecking form, dying in less than 10 min. to M&M push, at least give us macro game. Poor ZerO, traveling all long and showing how to play by winning 2 games for these zergies...
On February 18 2017 21:09 Terrorbladder wrote:
Flash be like: "You see here, Last, my firmware was created before yours, but it's more up to date than yours..."
Just like Win7 (published 2009) is better than Win10 (published 2015).
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On February 19 2017 12:45 outscar wrote:Damn EffOrt, you've fallen from your 2015 Bisu wrecking form, dying in less than 10 min. to M&M push, at least give us macro game. Poor ZerO, traveling all long and showing how to play by winning 2 games for these zergies... Show nested quote +On February 18 2017 21:09 Terrorbladder wrote:
Flash be like: "You see here, Last, my firmware was created before yours, but it's more up to date than yours..." Just like Win7 (published 2009) is better than Win10 (published 2015).
funnily sponmatches ZerO is 3-0 over Flash this month (the only zerg with a winning record this month) :-)
also inb4 windows fanboys
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after effort self owned himself and lost in 9 minutes and then zero played a nice game by managing to abuse the bad build (on outsider) by last, i was sure they would send zero, but instead this happened....
+ Show Spoiler +
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On February 19 2017 10:05 Terrorbladder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2017 07:21 SCC-Faust wrote:
I don't really like talking about balance, but from a spectator standpoint it is really brutal to watch ZvT.
In the scenarios where the Zerg can't get map control to establish their third base, the game is pretty much already over. It isn't even semi-exciting in the "Let's root for the underdog" kind of way, because it is more like "Lets hope the Terran player has an aneurysm so the Zerg has a chance". It is also really brutal from a spectator standpoint to watch PvZ in the scenarios where the Protoss can't get map control to establish a third base. Or in the scenarios where the Zerg keeps doing 3hatch Spire into 5hatch Hydra and Protoss predictably dies to a bust...
This is about ZvT, not PvZ. It's funny how you as a terran immediately try to steer the argument towards PvZ. That's not what we are discussing about.
Also what are you talking about? If protoss can't establish a third, he must be ridiculously behind. PvZ nowadays is either 3 base zerg vs 2 base zerg where no one has mapcontrol, or 4 base sim city zerg where protoss gets map control until zerg has enough to break out.
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Isn't the success of 5rax perhaps why a bunch of zergs started using lurker builds in ZvT in ASL?
Also yeah Effort was just depressing, why is he the ace seriously?
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I don't even really think 5 rax is that imbalanced in tvz. Ofc its a really strong build and is one of the reasons why tvz is more favored for terrans these days but the top zergs can still manage against it. Its just when Flash uses it with late-mech that makes the mu seem so unwinnable for zergs.
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On February 19 2017 19:48 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
I don't even really think 5 rax is that imbalanced in tvz. Ofc its a really strong build and is one of the reasons why tvz is more favored for terrans these days but the top zergs can still manage against it
no wonder Effort struggled
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On February 19 2017 15:23 Bakuryu wrote:after effort self owned himself and lost in 9 minutes and then zero played a nice game by managing to abuse the bad build (on outsider) by last, i was sure they would send zero, but instead this happened.... + Show Spoiler +
Definitely looked like they had a discussion at their table. Would've liked to know how it played out. I'm imagining something like ZerO offering to go if no one else wanted to and EffOrt finally saying he'll do it.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/Backseat_Broodwar/hwaseunghouse.jpg)
