• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:49
CEST 20:49
KST 03:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)77Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4) SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Sagi.gg Launcher Released BW General Discussion SC4ALL II Brood War Complete Invited Player Lineup 20-year-old Valorant player starting StarCraft Bot on ladder
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8716 users

(D/C rank) man vs machine TeamLeague - Page 8

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 Next All
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10394 Posts
July 05 2016 16:29 GMT
#141
On July 05 2016 21:08 LetaBot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2016 15:44 Jealous wrote:
On July 05 2016 02:56 Cele wrote:
On July 05 2016 02:25 Jealous wrote:
On July 02 2016 06:39 Cele wrote:
next game is being played tomorrow jealous. I know the schedule is already delayed a bit, but unfort. we can speed it up only so much due to real life stuff. Both teams try to play the remaining games in a timely fashion :>

Well? ^^


are we a bit impatient? ^^

I mean, you said tomorrow so I was hoping for an update ):




Show nested quote +
On July 05 2016 02:36 LetaBot wrote:
On July 05 2016 02:25 Jealous wrote:
On July 02 2016 06:39 Cele wrote:
next game is being played tomorrow jealous. I know the schedule is already delayed a bit, but unfort. we can speed it up only so much due to real life stuff. Both teams try to play the remaining games in a timely fashion :>

Well? ^^


Cele lost. Artanis is up next.



Already gave you an update Jealous

Yup, just explaining why I seemed "impatient" ^^
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
Artanis[Xp]
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Netherlands12973 Posts
July 05 2016 20:57 GMT
#142
+ Show Spoiler +
Beat Dazed.
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10394 Posts
July 06 2016 00:12 GMT
#143
On July 06 2016 05:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Beat Dazed.

+ Show Spoiler +
Grats!
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 05:37:42
July 06 2016 21:16 GMT
#144
On July 06 2016 09:12 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2016 05:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Beat Dazed.

+ Show Spoiler +
Grats!



+ Show Spoiler +
grats as well! Score is 3-1 for in favor of Team Sauerbraten. Last Match is gonna be Artanis vs FlashFTW and will be scheduled soon


just got informed that Team Blackbird gives W.O. for the last match. Bracket can be updated. Contact me on skype Jealous, we'll set up next round asaply!
Broodwar for life!
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10394 Posts
July 07 2016 05:59 GMT
#145
On July 07 2016 06:16 Cele wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2016 09:12 Jealous wrote:
On July 06 2016 05:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Beat Dazed.

+ Show Spoiler +
Grats!



+ Show Spoiler +
grats as well! Score is 3-1 for in favor of Team Sauerbraten. Last Match is gonna be Artanis vs FlashFTW and will be scheduled soon


just got informed that Team Blackbird gives W.O. for the last match. Bracket can be updated. Contact me on skype Jealous, we'll set up next round asaply!

My Skype is KoreanGrandma
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
chrisolo
Profile Joined May 2009
Germany2611 Posts
July 10 2016 16:43 GMT
#146
I just wanted to say that I quit BW and will not be able to play any matches for Team Sauerbraten anymore. If I have missed a scheduled match, I am really sorry. I thought we are out after the first loss.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ - aka cReAtiVee
RedW4rr10r
Profile Joined January 2010
Switzerland749 Posts
July 10 2016 16:54 GMT
#147
On July 11 2016 01:43 chrisolo wrote:
I just wanted to say that I quit BW and will not be able to play any matches for Team Sauerbraten anymore. If I have missed a scheduled match, I am really sorry. I thought we are out after the first loss.

Oh, what a bummer ;-/ hope to see you back some time soon
Rip & Tear until it is done!
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2503 Posts
July 10 2016 21:59 GMT
#148
On July 11 2016 01:43 chrisolo wrote:
I just wanted to say that I quit BW and will not be able to play any matches for Team Sauerbraten anymore. If I have missed a scheduled match, I am really sorry. I thought we are out after the first loss.


You don' t quit BW. Bw quits you. and then your back; see you in a coupleof months or a couple of years!
"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
July 11 2016 02:00 GMT
#149
On July 11 2016 01:43 chrisolo wrote:
I just wanted to say that I quit BW and will not be able to play any matches for Team Sauerbraten anymore. If I have missed a scheduled match, I am really sorry. I thought we are out after the first loss.


NOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO!! Why do you leave us? It must be + Show Spoiler +
Artanis fault
somehow.
Broodwar for life!
fischei1
Profile Joined November 2015
127 Posts
July 28 2016 17:46 GMT
#150
hey matepp92 msg me pls
I Only Had You In My Heart.
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
August 04 2016 14:11 GMT
#151
Some more games casted

Team LetaBot vs Team Jealous:



mpasteven vs Killerbot:

If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10394 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-04 18:26:37
August 04 2016 17:21 GMT
#152
Thanks LetaBot! Two things though, that gap between Barracks and Depot was 1 unit too wide, and I had never seen a LetaBot replay before so I was just abusing for the sake of abusing without knowing it would work or not xD

The last match between my team and Cele's team will be next Thursday.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
August 04 2016 18:29 GMT
#153
On August 05 2016 02:21 Jealous wrote:
Thanks LetaBot! Two things though, that gap between Barracks and Depot was 1 unit too wide, and I had never seen a LetaBot replay before so I was just abusing for the sake of abusing without knowing it would work or not xD

The last match between my team and Cele's team will be next Thursday.



What do you mean 1 unit too wide. IIRC your zealots were blocked from entering my main by that wall.
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2503 Posts
August 04 2016 19:44 GMT
#154
Now that i have played and seen in action bots various times, here are my thoughts on the subject:
+ Show Spoiler +
A machine is not capable of understanding concepts of winning or loosing, or the importance of the game

A human being does and will fight and give his best accordingly;

A machine does not understand why it is playing; it does not have a reason or a validity; it is being forced to execute what it was born for;

A human being may play out of boredom, enthusiasm, challenge, interest, addiction, determination, practice, show off, money, just to name a few.

The ai is capable of multitasking and micro, macro near or at levels of absolute perfection

The human is not capable of multitasking. What we are actually doing is executing different tasks at a super fast level, but still one after another and not simultaneously

The ai doesn' t have feelings. It is not capable of intuition, gut sense, not prone to steaming, steamrolling, trolling, bad or good manners, losing or staying on top of his game.

A human being brings, uses and subjugates, or falls victim to all the emotional range that is relevant to many many factors involved, logical and non logical.

The ai doesn' t have creativity. It cannot invent something new it did not know it was capable of doing.

A human is capable of pulling out things he would not have consciously thought possible.

The ai is not capable of taking a decision outside the math, or preset decision making.

Humans are making decisions all the time based on several factors logical and not, and can make good decisions, bad ones, mistakes and epic plays. Tries, testing the water, boldness, attempts and stubbornness

By the analysis of the elements above, a machine will never be able to become better than top human players, unless maybe all the human players that are available are less than D level. By best i mean winning a major korean tournament or equivalent.
This is no matter what kind of modifications are brought to the bot software.
If the hardware was modified, i.e. If a bot where programmed into a bionic being, that is to say half machine half animal, then i believe they are the possibilities to surpass even the best human player in the world( Flash ), by many extents.

"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10394 Posts
August 04 2016 21:06 GMT
#155
On August 05 2016 03:29 LetaBot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2016 02:21 Jealous wrote:
Thanks LetaBot! Two things though, that gap between Barracks and Depot was 1 unit too wide, and I had never seen a LetaBot replay before so I was just abusing for the sake of abusing without knowing it would work or not xD

The last match between my team and Cele's team will be next Thursday.



What do you mean 1 unit too wide. IIRC your zealots were blocked from entering my main by that wall.

@20:03 in the first video you can see my Zealot pass through the gap easily. The Depot has to be adjacent to the Barracks in order to create a Zealot-tight wall.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
August 04 2016 21:08 GMT
#156
On August 05 2016 06:06 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2016 03:29 LetaBot wrote:
On August 05 2016 02:21 Jealous wrote:
Thanks LetaBot! Two things though, that gap between Barracks and Depot was 1 unit too wide, and I had never seen a LetaBot replay before so I was just abusing for the sake of abusing without knowing it would work or not xD

The last match between my team and Cele's team will be next Thursday.



What do you mean 1 unit too wide. IIRC your zealots were blocked from entering my main by that wall.

@20:03 in the first video you can see my Zealot pass through the gap easily. The Depot has to be adjacent to the Barracks in order to create a Zealot-tight wall.


Ah the match vs Krasi0. Yes that barracks was a bit misplaced in that regard. But the supply depots next to each other can be used for that marine trick as well, which krasi0 did do.
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10394 Posts
August 04 2016 21:28 GMT
#157
On August 05 2016 04:44 pebble444 wrote:
Now that i have played and seen in action bots various times, here are my thoughts on the subject:
+ Show Spoiler +
A machine is not capable of understanding concepts of winning or loosing, or the importance of the game

A human being does and will fight and give his best accordingly;

A machine does not understand why it is playing; it does not have a reason or a validity; it is being forced to execute what it was born for;

A human being may play out of boredom, enthusiasm, challenge, interest, addiction, determination, practice, show off, money, just to name a few.

The ai is capable of multitasking and micro, macro near or at levels of absolute perfection

The human is not capable of multitasking. What we are actually doing is executing different tasks at a super fast level, but still one after another and not simultaneously

The ai doesn' t have feelings. It is not capable of intuition, gut sense, not prone to steaming, steamrolling, trolling, bad or good manners, losing or staying on top of his game.

A human being brings, uses and subjugates, or falls victim to all the emotional range that is relevant to many many factors involved, logical and non logical.

The ai doesn' t have creativity. It cannot invent something new it did not know it was capable of doing.

A human is capable of pulling out things he would not have consciously thought possible.

The ai is not capable of taking a decision outside the math, or preset decision making.

Humans are making decisions all the time based on several factors logical and not, and can make good decisions, bad ones, mistakes and epic plays. Tries, testing the water, boldness, attempts and stubbornness

By the analysis of the elements above, a machine will never be able to become better than top human players, unless maybe all the human players that are available are less than D level. By best i mean winning a major korean tournament or equivalent.
This is no matter what kind of modifications are brought to the bot software.
If the hardware was modified, i.e. If a bot where programmed into a bionic being, that is to say half machine half animal, then i believe they are the possibilities to surpass even the best human player in the world( Flash ), by many extents.


+ Show Spoiler +
This is a highly philosophical stance that has major backing in the science community, or at least had for decades. The idea that AI can exist in a vacuum, as in without humans telling it what to do, is a highly debated subject. The core of the theory is - if it is humans that create AI, would the AI ever outgrow the parents? If we are AI's creators, then how can the AI ever exceed the human capacity? It's an interesting thought piece and although logic may dictate that AI can never surpass its maker, the top scientists of the previous generation have already been proven wrong on multiple counts as to the capability of AI. We are in the infant stages of it. It is too early to tell what AI can or cannot do.

More on the subject, after hearing the casts and playing against multiple AI myself, I have to say that the most immediate goal is to create algorithms that mimic situational awareness. LetaBot's creator kept saying that "this algorithm needs to be improved" or "this is on the to-do list." In my eyes, if you could create an AI that would analyze replays from an FPV, then it would be able to learn how to counter every strategy in the game. What I mean by this is, when you run a replay in BW, you are basically forcing two computers to recreate the actions committed by either player. If LetaBot could assume the role of Flash when watching replays, I think that it could possily not only gather information as to what build orders are good, what reactions are necessary to other builds (since it would have access to the actions of the opponent), it would also learn timings and movement. Being an AI and not a human, it could analyze these things at x16 or even from parsing the data contained within a replay, meaning that its learning potential is only limited by the strength of its learning algorithm and the replays fed to it. If one AI is fed Flash replays, another Jaedongs, and another Bisu's, and they were forced to simulate round-robin games for a couple of weeks non-stop, I am sure that even further progress will emerge. Of course, this is all easier said than done. However, I think that the philosophical approach to this issue which you used to argue that machines have no desire to win/no emotion is not the machine's disadvantage in this scenario. Their lack of pure creativity will still exist. In other words...

What I see now is that programmers are manually inputting building placements, build orders, adaptive strategies, etc. If this process could be automated, then an AI which would be much more capable of beating a C level player consistently will emerge quite rapidly given the vast amount of data (replays) and processing power (modern computers) available. Humans would be forced into a scenario where they know their mechanics cannot compete with the computer's, so they must present a scenario that the AI is unfamiliar with, knowing full well that after presenting the scenario once, the AI will learn of its existence and then it would try all of its existing builds in order to beat it. If adaptability is on a higher level than we currently expect, it may even blend strategies and ideas. If pure information gathering is on an extreme level and it was fed all currently existing XvY replays, surely at some point it will find a build that beats your "new" build, even though (theoretically) we know that no genuinely new ideas exist and that more likely than not, any build you try has won and lost 10 times in the history of Brood War. In short, an AI of that level would only benefit from every loss whereas players like mishin on ICCup prove that humans have a far lesser capacity for such growth.

That in my opinion is the future of AI in a competitive environment such as this. The Go bot has shown that it is possible. BW is a much more open battle field with much more resulting variance on input and therefore output, so it will take a few more years of development from dedicated programmers such as LetaBot in order for us to reach that point. However, all predictions for the development of AI have been beaten in other areas already, so maybe mine is subject to the same exponential error but it is what it is. All I can say is I am excited for the future, and that a bot that can beat Flash will be a reality, especially once his new ideas run out and he starts repeating builds from the 20 years of SC:BW.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19391 Posts
August 05 2016 02:34 GMT
#158
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Rekzr
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia92 Posts
August 05 2016 03:50 GMT
#159
This is amazing! Never watched a bot match, I love it
Sonny-
Profile Joined July 2016
47 Posts
August 05 2016 14:34 GMT
#160
Wow LetaBot has an insane APM from mid game to late game!
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Patches Events
01:00
Patch Clash Monthly #2
RotterdaM815
TKL 296
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 815
ByuN 358
mouzHeroMarine 333
TKL 296
IndyStarCraft 204
BRAT_OK 56
MindelVK 24
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 15636
Calm 2561
Horang2 414
Dewaltoss 147
Mini 146
Rush 92
EffOrt 56
Zeus 48
Free 31
Trap 27
[ Show more ]
Bale 18
ToSsGirL 17
scan(afreeca) 15
Sacsri 8
Dota 2
febbydoto18
LuMiX0
League of Legends
KnowMe53
Counter-Strike
fl0m5210
pashabiceps1647
Fnx 1029
edward30
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King50
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby2707
Liquid`Hasu572
Other Games
singsing1766
Liquid`RaSZi1670
Beastyqt785
B2W.Neo395
C9.Mang0290
crisheroes215
dupreeh146
QueenE104
Trikslyr92
UpATreeSC61
JuggernautJason23
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream18
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 33
• Reevou 8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 22
• Michael_bg 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2705
League of Legends
• Nemesis3279
• TFBlade689
Other Games
• imaqtpie830
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
15h 11m
INu's Battles
16h 11m
Percival vs SHIN
Zoun vs herO
OSC
18h 11m
OSC
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 4h
OSC
2 days
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Patches Events
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
HCC Season 3
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.