Organizer(s): Martin Rooijackers (LetaBot) Caster(s): nepeta (man vs machine matches)
Registration possible till Tuesday 5 April 23:59 CET. Don't forget to also press "check-in" when registering on defiler.ru
Hello everyone,
Zachtronics industries expressed interest in sponsoring a man vs machine TeamLeague. To attract more low level players, and give the bots a chance to win, it is going to be a tournament for D/C level players ( anyone with a max rank lower than C+ level ).
The tournament style is going to be an All-Kill Format , double elimination bracket with 4-player teams . You can sign up with a team that has less than 4 players, it just means that the opposing team has less players it needs to take down to win.
Signing up as a human player:
Before signing up, check the maximum rank you achieved on all your ICCUP accounts. If the maximum rank is C+ or higher on at least one of these accounts, your rank is to high for this tournament. Exception can be made on a case by case basis ( for example if you got the high rank quite a while ago).
To sign up as a human player, you either create a team or join an existing team.
To create a team, the team captain registers and checks-in on the defiler.ru tournament manager here. The team captain also posts the following information in this TeamLiquid thread:
(It is not compulsory for a Team captain to play in the actual tournament)
Team name: Team name here Team Captain: TeamLiquid account/ICCUP account/defiler.ru account Players: 1. TeamLiquid account/ICCUP account/Race 2. Just like above, or empty if playing alone 3. Just like above, or empty if playing with only 2 players 4. Just like above, or empty if playing with only 3 players
Race can be: Protoss,Zerg,Terran,Random You play as the race you registered with for the entire tournament. Race-picking is not allowed
You can always change the player roster until 5 April when the registration closes.
To join an existing team, the team captain has to add you to his/her team.
You can sign up without a team. In that case you post your TeamLiquid account and ICCUP account (also mention that you are looking for a team). Then you will be added to a list of team-less players, which will make it easy for team captains to contact you.
Signing up a bot:
You can sign up a bot the same way as a human player by creating your own team or joining an existing bot team (keep in mind that a bot team isn't allowed to sign on human players an vice-verse).
The (easier) alternative is that you give me the DLL, JAR or EXE file of your bot. Then I will add it to a bot team automatically and run the bot for you the entire tournament.
Tournament information:
The tournament is going to be played in the All-Kill Format . Each team selects one member to play first. When one player gets defeated, his/her team selects another player that hasn't played yet. This process continues until a team no longer has players that never played in the match (in which case that team loses).
The loser picks the next map (that hasnt been played yet) as well.
The bracket system is the double elimination format. So if your team loses, it gets send to the loser bracket. If it loses there as well, it is out of the tournament.
Map pool:
Map pool can be found here . "Latin Quarter" can be found in the ICCUP map pack here . You are allowed to choose between the ICCUP and defiler.ru version of the map. If there is disagreement with your opponent over the map version, then you should use the ICCUP version of the map
First map to play on is determined by the defiler.ru system (or both players can agree on a different map). After that, loser picks.
Prizes:
Each member of the team that wins the grand finals can select one game made by Zachtronics industries and receive it for free. The list of games by Zachtronics industries can be found here.
Livestream/casting Everyone is allowed to cast the replays on defiler.ru . Streaming your games is also allowed.
Other information: - Everyone is allowed to use the observer version of a map, but I would advise bot operators to only play FFA or melee, because some UMS map triggers can crash a bot. - Bot developers are allowed to let someone other than their-self or me operate their bot. Bot developers are eligible for prize money even if they are not operating their own bot. - BWAPI bots should have the "complete map information" flag set to disabled (by default it is). They are allowed to put the "user input" flag to true for chat purposes, unless their opponent doesn't want the "user input" flag set to true. - Bot operator should not use Anti-hack as it conflicts with the BWAPI. When human players are playing against a bot, they can turn AH off and use LatencyChanger for LAN latency. - Human players should have AH on when playing against other human players, unless this causes problems with the game not starting ( apparently some problems with the new maps maybe ). In that case, both players should live-stream their games and post the VODs in this thread.
There is no fixed date for the matches of the tournament. Instead the teams should contact the opponent to schedule the matches. If the matches still aren't played before the deadline given below, then the organizer(s) will set a specific time at which all (remaining) games take place. If still not played, the team that didn't showed up gets a W.O loss.
6 April: Making sure that everyone is successfully registered, then generate the bracket
23 April: I will be online 21:00 - 23:00 CEST to play bot matches and as an admin if teams want their matches to be supervised by one. Unless I am in a game with a bot you can find me in the channel "BWAPI"
On March 23 2016 08:49 LightningStrike wrote: ICCUP ID: Stardom[eMg] Max Rank: C- in old system Proof: Sent to you on Skype Race: Terran I looking for a team.
proof link . Added you to people looking for a team.
On March 23 2016 08:55 Dazed_Spy wrote: What are the restrictions on the bots? Are they allowed money cheats or what?
All bots have to use the BWAPI. The BWAPI allows computer to send Starcraft Brood War commands just like humans do. They can only do what humans can do, but being computers, they can do it very fast (which is allowed in this tournament).
edit: So no money cheats. Those are from the Scripted Bots from the BW AI project used before the BWAPI existed.
On March 23 2016 08:55 Dazed_Spy wrote: What are the restrictions on the bots? Are they allowed money cheats or what?
All bots have to use the BWAPI. The BWAPI allows computer to send Starcraft Brood War commands just like humans do. They can only do what humans can do, but being computers, they can do it very fast (which is allowed in this tournament).
edit: So no money cheats. Those are from the Scripted Bots from the BW AI project used before the BWAPI existed.
Alright, sounds cool then.
ICCUP ID: Dazed. Max Rank: C- in old system Proof (my old acct i got c- on was ages ago and has since been deleted from inactivity) Race: Zerg Need a team.
ICCUP: mpasteven Rank: D iccup.com, last time I played StarCraft somewhat seriously was in 2004. Only very recently have I gotten back into it. Race: Zerg
I play alone.
I have old hardware so I cannot use Anti-Hack, so I will either record my screen with a video camera or dig out an old capture card.
On March 23 2016 10:16 mpasteven wrote: ICCUP: mpasteven Rank: D iccup.com, last time I played StarCraft somewhat seriously was in 2004. Only very recently have I gotten back into it. Race: Zerg
I play alone.
I have old hardware so I cannot use Anti-Hack, so I will either record my screen with a video camera or dig out an old capture card.
Like I mentioned in the rules, there are apparently problems with the new maps and anti-hack ( http://iccup.com/en/starcraft/community/thread/833550.html ) so there might be more people who will get problems with AH. So as long as you capture the screen with you playing this is fine.
ICCup: sGs.BaBo Rank: C (currently ~D+/C-) Race: Protoss
Don't have a team, looking for some fun games vs AI! Been very interesting read about + discussing BW AI these past few months, time to get some first-hand experience ^^
On March 23 2016 23:20 QuaNTeL wrote: i was c rank max 1x1 on old system. but with the new system im allowed to reach b- rank. so am i allowed to play? http://iccup.com/en/starcraft/gamingprofile/n.stOp)Telus.html here if u want see my 1x1 matchlist this season
Your rank is to high to be considered an amateur C level player unfortunately. So you will have to wait for the next man vs machine tournament without a rank requirement.
Bumping this to say thank you to Zachtronics for offering a prize for this! After reading the the thread more thoroughly and looking at the games on the site, I am hard-pressed to decide which one I would want.
On March 26 2016 01:08 Jealous wrote: Bumping this to say thank you to Zachtronics for offering a prize for this! After reading the the thread more thoroughly and looking at the games on the site, I am hard-pressed to decide which one I would want.
On March 26 2016 02:37 Artanis[Xp] wrote: ICCUP ID: Artanis[Xp] Max Rank: C (old) -> http://iccup.com/en/starcraft/gamingprofile/Artanis[Xp].html (would link better but brackets fuck shit up) Race: Zerg No team yet.
Use a link shorter like tinyurl.com . Anyway, added you
iccup ID: evanchristo max rank: D (http://tinyurl.com/jse33vb) Race: Zerg no team Atm
i mainly play on fish server so my iccup rank is not too high, i am also form Australia so i have not so good internet but i can always hop down top the internet cafe depending on time
ICCup: Aop)Cele( Max: C new, C- old system: ICCup.com Race: team: I would like to form a team of my own, the name is Team Sauerbraten (ha finally). I'd like to invite some players to join me here!
Redwarrior Bad]Seed[ Bad]Fry[ neustadt K41f
and everybody else i hang out with whom i forgot! (if you meet the criteria ofc, sorry fischei you're too gosu)
and last but not least, the all time Mascot, Motivator and All Star of Team Germany, Artanis[xp]!
Everybody else can ofc feel free to join us, it's gonna be a fun team!
On March 26 2016 23:46 Cele wrote: ICCup: Aop)Cele( Max: C new, C- old system: ICCup.com Race: team: I would like to form a team of my own, the name is Team Sauerbraten (ha finally). I'd like to invite some players to join me here!
Redwarrior Bad]Seed[ Bad]Fry[ neustadt K41f
and everybody else i hang out with whom i forgot! (if you meet the criteria ofc, sorry fischei you're too gosu)
and last but not least, the all time Mascot, Motivator and All Star of Team Germany, Artanis[xp]!
Everybody else can ofc feel free to join us, it's gonna be a fun team!
Consider me joined! Thanks for mentioning me first <3 xD
On March 26 2016 23:46 Cele wrote: ICCup: Aop)Cele( Max: C new, C- old system: ICCup.com Race: team: I would like to form a team of my own, the name is Team Sauerbraten (ha finally). I'd like to invite some players to join me here!
Redwarrior Bad]Seed[ Bad]Fry[ neustadt K41f
and everybody else i hang out with whom i forgot! (if you meet the criteria ofc, sorry fischei you're too gosu)
and last but not least, the all time Mascot, Motivator and All Star of Team Germany, Artanis[xp]!
Everybody else can ofc feel free to join us, it's gonna be a fun team!
On March 27 2016 04:58 Jealous wrote: Damn, team Germany looks fierce!!
bwaha ;D
for Letabot, since Redwarrior overlooked it
he is C- max rank afaik.
Letabot also told me, the teams are limited to four players, so i can unfortunately accept only one more player for our tasty Braten! Who ever applies fastest i think is fair.
On March 27 2016 04:58 Jealous wrote: Damn, team Germany looks fierce!!
bwaha ;D
for Letabot, since Redwarrior overlooked it
he is C- max rank afaik.
Letabot also told me, the teams are limited to four players, so i can unfortunately accept only one more player for our tasty Braten! Who ever applies fastest i think is fair.
AFAIK only you and RedW4rr10r signed up in this TL thread. So you still got two spots.
On March 27 2016 04:58 Jealous wrote: Damn, team Germany looks fierce!!
bwaha ;D
for Letabot, since Redwarrior overlooked it
he is C- max rank afaik.
Letabot also told me, the teams are limited to four players, so i can unfortunately accept only one more player for our tasty Braten! Who ever applies fastest i think is fair.
Whoops, I thought I had mentioned that I'm C- max. Dunno why it's not there. But thanks to Cele it's all good. Ouch, what would I be without him xD
Btw LetaBot, according to your post #2 it says that Cele plays . Please fix it to . Unless he has changed his main race (at least he signed up as a ^^)
On March 27 2016 04:58 Jealous wrote: Damn, team Germany looks fierce!!
bwaha ;D
for Letabot, since Redwarrior overlooked it
he is C- max rank afaik.
Letabot also told me, the teams are limited to four players, so i can unfortunately accept only one more player for our tasty Braten! Who ever applies fastest i think is fair.
Whoops, I thought I had mentioned that I'm C- max. Dunno why it's not there. But thanks to Cele it's all good. Ouch, what would I be without him xD
Btw LetaBot, according to your post #2 it says that Cele plays . Please fix it to . Unless he has changed his main race (at least he signed up as a ^^)
How do the teams work on this one? Is it going to start human vs bot for all brackets then see how it goes from there? Or will there be a human bracket and bot bracket that meet in the finals?
On March 29 2016 06:10 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: How do the teams work on this one? Is it going to start human vs bot for all brackets then see how it goes from there? Or will there be a human bracket and bot bracket that meet in the finals?
Standard double elimination. So each team is put in the same brackets regardless of whether it is a bot or human team.
On March 29 2016 06:10 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: How do the teams work on this one? Is it going to start human vs bot for all brackets then see how it goes from there? Or will there be a human bracket and bot bracket that meet in the finals?
Standard double elimination. So each team is put in the same brackets regardless of whether it is a bot or human team.
I notice that you have the format set as "All-Kill Format," (which is awesome!) but no specifications on game time/date. I'm going to assume that it is okay for player 1 to play his game, then the next game will be scheduled after? In other words, there is no requirement for all players to be logged on at the same time to play the matches? I feel that would be the most prudent way to proceed, as historically it has been hard to have entire squads on at the same time, especially those from various timezones.
Also, as far as line-up submission, will it be only the first player submitted, or do we have to send a line-up of all players we intend to send out in the order we would play them? AFAIK, it is the former that was the prevalent approach. However, this was largely due to the matchfixing scandal in the KeSPA era, so it might not be absolutely necessary either.
On March 29 2016 06:10 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: How do the teams work on this one? Is it going to start human vs bot for all brackets then see how it goes from there? Or will there be a human bracket and bot bracket that meet in the finals?
Standard double elimination. So each team is put in the same brackets regardless of whether it is a bot or human team.
On March 29 2016 06:10 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: How do the teams work on this one? Is it going to start human vs bot for all brackets then see how it goes from there? Or will there be a human bracket and bot bracket that meet in the finals?
Standard double elimination. So each team is put in the same brackets regardless of whether it is a bot or human team.
I notice that you have the format set as "All-Kill Format," (which is awesome!) but no specifications on game time/date. I'm going to assume that it is okay for player 1 to play his game, then the next game will be scheduled after? In other words, there is no requirement for all players to be logged on at the same time to play the matches? I feel that would be the most prudent way to proceed, as historically it has been hard to have entire squads on at the same time, especially those from various timezones.
Also, as far as line-up submission, will it be only the first player submitted, or do we have to send a line-up of all players we intend to send out in the order we would play them? AFAIK, it is the former that was the prevalent approach. However, this was largely due to the matchfixing scandal in the KeSPA era, so it might not be absolutely necessary either.
Yes, you can play on any day before 17 April. So you can have your first player on Saturday then the other 3 on Sunday afterwards. Having all players available at the same date would be faster, but due to time zone differences and other activities, this is ofc not always possible. Therefore I used the format where teams schedule it between themselves before a specific date.
line-up submission is like the former. Each team sends out one player are the first player. Then the losing team picks the next player and the next map. Winner stays on.
On March 29 2016 06:10 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: How do the teams work on this one? Is it going to start human vs bot for all brackets then see how it goes from there? Or will there be a human bracket and bot bracket that meet in the finals?
Standard double elimination. So each team is put in the same brackets regardless of whether it is a bot or human team.
On March 31 2016 12:09 DarkNetHunter wrote: I would like to join as well, signing myself up as a new team and an invite to any of my fellow (bandit)s wanting to play (nerd)
Team name: (bandit) Team Captain: DarkNetHunter
ICCup: iNs.DNH accs: iNs.DNH and old sGs.DNH Race: Max Rank: C-
On April 06 2016 03:27 n.stOp)Trooper wrote: ICCUP ID: Trooper[XdT], n.stOp)Trooper Max Rank D+ Proof: http://iccup.com/en/starcraft/gamingprofile/Trooper[XdT].html Race Terran Team name: Team Wurstwasser Team Captain: fischei
edit: ok, team Wurstwasser is now fully registered
Thank you! Excited to get started. One minor fix, my Teamliquid/ICCup/Defiler.ru next to "Captain" should look like this:
Jealous/sGs.BaBo/JealousTL
Also, quick question, for teams with less than 4 players, will the players still only be allowed to play once? We can't send the same player out multiple times to fill up the missing slots? Just want to make sure ^^
On March 23 2016 08:14 LetaBot wrote: (D/C rank) man vs machine TeamLeague Defiler.ru page: http://defiler.ru/tourney/?t=443(used by the team captain to register the team and submit replays)
Do i need to sign in on defiler.ru as well? It says that the Team Captian needs to in order to register the players. From my Team Artanis is checked in already but I am not. Has Cele just forgotten about me or what is the issue? T_T
On March 23 2016 08:14 LetaBot wrote: (D/C rank) man vs machine TeamLeague Defiler.ru page: http://defiler.ru/tourney/?t=443(used by the team captain to register the team and submit replays)
Do i need to sign in on defiler.ru as well? It says that the Team Captian needs to in order to register the players. From my Team Artanis is checked in already but I am not. Has Cele just forgotten about me or what is the issue? T_T
No, you don't need to register on defiler.ru . Only 1 person in the team needs to do that. I will remove artanis from the defiler.ru list since Cele already registered.
On April 07 2016 01:00 Jealous wrote: Also, quick question, for teams with less than 4 players, will the players still only be allowed to play once? We can't send the same player out multiple times to fill up the missing slots? Just want to make sure ^^
Quoting this because I edited it in and it was the last post, in case you didn't see it.
On April 07 2016 01:00 Jealous wrote: Also, quick question, for teams with less than 4 players, will the players still only be allowed to play once? We can't send the same player out multiple times to fill up the missing slots? Just want to make sure ^^
Quoting this because I edited it in and it was the last post, in case you didn't see it.
All-kill format. So once a player loses he is out for the match. If you have less than 4 player you don't get any extra lifes .
On April 07 2016 01:00 Jealous wrote: Also, quick question, for teams with less than 4 players, will the players still only be allowed to play once? We can't send the same player out multiple times to fill up the missing slots? Just want to make sure ^^
Quoting this because I edited it in and it was the last post, in case you didn't see it.
All-kill format. So once a player loses he is out for the match. If you have less than 4 player you don't get any extra lifes .
Gotcha, figured as much but it was worth a shot ^^ Thank you.
EDIT: Just noticed that this is a double-elimination bracket tournament, very interesting format for a teamleague! I have been playing in so many round-robin team tournaments over the years that I forgot that this was a thing haha xD The pressure is on more than ever!
As mentioned on page 1, I am on ICCUP this saturday 9 April 14:00 - 17:00 CET and 21:00 -23:00 CET with the bots. So if you are up against a bot team, message me on my ICCUP account "letabot". I will also be in the Brood War Skype group at that time.
Otherwise just contact one of the members of the opposing team to schedule a date/time for the matches. In either case, the first map is determined by the defiler.ru system (check the name after the @ symbol). The winner uploads the replay to defiler.ru and the losing teams chooses a player that hasn't played yet and a map that hasn't been used. Once one team is completely eliminated, mention it here and I will adjust the defiler.ru if needed.
Shouldn't we send our first player choice to you, so that there is no counter-picking or what not, and have you publicize the first match? Consequent games will of course be much more straightforward because there will be only one team choosing a player to send vs. an establish opponent.
On April 07 2016 07:27 Jealous wrote: Shouldn't we send our first player choice to you, so that there is no counter-picking or what not, and have you publicize the first match? Consequent games will of course be much more straightforward because there will be only one team choosing a player to send vs. an establish opponent.
You can do that if both teams want to keep their first opponent secret. If so, then both players can pm me their first choice. When I have both I pm the choices to the team leaders.
But if a team doesn't really care about that then they can mention their first choice to you first or post it in this thread.
On April 07 2016 07:27 Jealous wrote: Shouldn't we send our first player choice to you, so that there is no counter-picking or what not, and have you publicize the first match? Consequent games will of course be much more straightforward because there will be only one team choosing a player to send vs. an establish opponent.
You can do that if both teams want to keep their first opponent secret. If so, then both players can pm me their first choice. When I have both I pm the choices to the team leaders.
But if a team doesn't really care about that then they can mention their first choice to you first or post it in this thread.
Gotcha, thanks! I was just going off the fact that in Proleague they started keeping the first opponent secret until gameday, but I guess that was due to matchfixing. We don't need to worry about that here.... right? >_> Haha
This will be Epic ... especially with Sir Jolt + Trozz commentary!
Also, is fischei playing twice for his team?
Team Wurstwasser Captain: fischei fischei fischei players: fischei de fischei C neustadt de neustadt C- trooper[xdt] de trooper[xdt] C- fischei1 1400 D+
I would find it better if all the solo teams where clustered in 1 or 2 teams. It just does not make sense to have so many solo teams. Allkilling is a thing, yes, but it does not occur as often that you might argue they will have a reasonable chance to compete. Please think about it.
On April 07 2016 15:40 chrisolo wrote: I would find it better if all the solo teams where clustered in 1 or 2 teams. It just does not make sense to have so many solo teams. Allkilling is a thing, yes, but it does not occur as often that you might argue they will have a reasonable chance to compete. Please think about it.
I mean, some people signed up and said they want to play alone, and it was within the rules in the OP. How is it just to make them join a team if they wanted to play alone? Just because you find it better? xP
To be honest. Yes. Its stupid to gather four people to play a game, when only possible one of them will be able to play. Yes that can also be the case in 4v4, but still its just stupid in my oppinion.
On April 07 2016 15:40 The Intrepid wrote: This will be Epic ... especially with Sir Jolt + Trozz commentary!
Also, is fischei playing twice for his team?
Team Wurstwasser Captain: fischei1 fischei fischei players: fischei1 de fischei C neustadt de neustadt C- trooper[xdt] de trooper[xdt] C- fischei1 1400 D+
yes, that should be the player 1400 , corrected.
On April 07 2016 15:40 chrisolo wrote: I would find it better if all the solo teams where clustered in 1 or 2 teams. It just does not make sense to have so many solo teams. Allkilling is a thing, yes, but it does not occur as often that you might argue they will have a reasonable chance to compete. Please think about it.
Some people simply prefer to play solo. This is just an amateur tournament, not a professional league. So I see no reason to disallow teams that don't have the full 4 man line-up.
On April 07 2016 20:07 chrisolo wrote: To be honest. Yes. Its stupid to gather four people to play a game, when only possible one of them will be able to play. Yes that can also be the case in 4v4, but still its just stupid in my oppinion.
The 4 player team doesn't have to show up all at the same time. It can send out one or two players this week, and if needed the other players next week.
Given my experience with low-level leagues on TL these past few years, I pretty much assumed that the matches would be played one by one anyhow. As in, Player 1 beats Player A, then sets a new time with Player B, but Player B won so now they set a time with Player 2, so on and so forth.
I don't get it. I thought this is a Man vs. Machine tour? And according to the bracket (and our Skype chat) it seems to be that we're facing a human? So eventually a Man vs. Man round or whatever? Sorry .. I really don't get it xD
edit: Which doesn't change anything about me wanting to play this :D
On April 08 2016 06:06 RedW4rr10r wrote: I don't get it. I thought this is a Man vs. Machine tour? And according to the bracket (and our Skype chat) it seems to be that we're facing a human? So eventually a Man vs. Man round or whatever? Sorry .. I really don't get it xD
edit: Which doesn't change anything about me wanting to play this :D
It is more of a man + machine tour. Bot teams and human teams are all in the same bracket since there is only one price to be won.
In my past experiences with better bw ai, they still have the defect that, if a worker attacks, they will throw everything after that worker and chase him. Has it been figured out how to avoid that behaviour? Or is it illegal, or legitimate against an ai?
On April 08 2016 23:43 Dazed_Spy wrote: In my past experiences with better bw ai, they still have the defect that, if a worker attacks, they will throw everything after that worker and chase him. Has it been figured out how to avoid that behaviour? Or is it illegal, or legitimate against an ai?
Top bots can deal with a worker rush. There are still some bots that can be defeated if you send in (almost) all your initial worker units though.
PSA: If you played all your games against a team, but still have to put in replays in the defiler.ru system ( so basically, when you have to play versus a team with less than 4 players). You can simply fill in the rest of the replay wins with other random replays and post the actual results in this thread.
Case in point: LetaBot's team won with TYR defeating mpasteven. The first replay is this match being played. The other 3 replays are just replays from TYR on the SSCAI ladder.
We at Matepp92's team are having a bit of trouble organizing our match with pebble444. He called off the first timeslot he gave, Friday 20:30, and was a no-show for the second timeslot, Saturday 20:30. Since then, he hasn't responded to the PM we sent.
pebble444, if you are reading this, please respond so that we can set up a time.
On April 11 2016 05:12 KatjaKean wrote: We at Matepp92's team are having a bit of trouble organizing our match with pebble444. He called off the first timeslot he gave, Friday 20:30, and was a no-show for the second timeslot, Saturday 20:30. Since then, he hasn't responded to the PM we sent.
pebble444, if you are reading this, please respond so that we can set up a time.
Hmm, the management aspect is good, except it is supply blocked and racked up 1100/900 @10 minutes.. No bueno.. But neustadt economy so low...
Those storm dodges at the third! And the natural falls! Wow that was so brutal!! Jeez, I'm scared now...
Gonna look at game 2 now.
That drone micro @2:20, so pro..
I wonder what those lings running outside the natural are doing? Waiting for probe scout?
Expands to another main, interesting.
Looks like fischei, after obsing the last game, has found this bot's weakness ^^ 4 gate speed all-in incoming?? Hacker overlords see all though...
Zerg's simcity leaves much to be desired.. Expands to the OTHER main! So greedy!!
Panic lings not very effective vs. +1 Zealots! However, fischei is losing control... 175 apm struggling to keep up with 4000+ hahaha. Had to kill pylon to let archons out, while Zerg is still being greedy at top left... Army is going there, but this backstab??! Nope, Zerglings are baffled by the walls and forget they are not Ultras and can fit in nearly every damn crack...
Looks like this Zerg's greed got the best of it, should have adapted once it saw all those gates! Fischei looking like a strong player here ^^ GGs.
Also, I REALLY want to face one of those newfangled AI. That's really what I signed up for! Hopefully the stars, Ws and Ls align.
Yea, that's the basically like the only reason I signed up for this, too. Thought it was pure Human vs. Machines. Instead I had to face a human in the first round
Also, I REALLY want to face one of those newfangled AI. That's really what I signed up for! Hopefully the stars, Ws and Ls align.
Yea, that's the basically like the only reason I signed up for this, too. Thought it was pure Human vs. Machines. Instead I had to face a human in the first round
If it doesn't work out and you don't match up with an AI team before you exit or win the competition, perhaps you can sign on at the times LetaBot has made known that he will be on to play matches and ask him for a game or two off the books? ^^ That's my plan, at least.
Also, I REALLY want to face one of those newfangled AI. That's really what I signed up for! Hopefully the stars, Ws and Ls align.
Yea, that's the basically like the only reason I signed up for this, too. Thought it was pure Human vs. Machines. Instead I had to face a human in the first round
If it doesn't work out and you don't match up with an AI team before you exit or win the competition, perhaps you can sign on at the times LetaBot has made known that he will be on to play matches and ask him for a game or two off the books? ^^ That's my plan, at least.
Indeed that is a good plan But facing bots within the tournament will kinda be more interesting^^
Also, I REALLY want to face one of those newfangled AI. That's really what I signed up for! Hopefully the stars, Ws and Ls align.
Yea, that's the basically like the only reason I signed up for this, too. Thought it was pure Human vs. Machines. Instead I had to face a human in the first round
If it doesn't work out and you don't match up with an AI team before you exit or win the competition, perhaps you can sign on at the times LetaBot has made known that he will be on to play matches and ask him for a game or two off the books? ^^ That's my plan, at least.
Indeed that is a good plan But facing bots within the tournament will kinda be more interesting^^
You can always add my ICCUP account ( LetaBot ) and /w me when I am online. I usually let my bot play 21:00 - 23:00 CET when I am online.
edit: not today though. Usually I am online on Wednesday at that time.
Also, I REALLY want to face one of those newfangled AI. That's really what I signed up for! Hopefully the stars, Ws and Ls align.
Yea, that's the basically like the only reason I signed up for this, too. Thought it was pure Human vs. Machines. Instead I had to face a human in the first round
If it doesn't work out and you don't match up with an AI team before you exit or win the competition, perhaps you can sign on at the times LetaBot has made known that he will be on to play matches and ask him for a game or two off the books? ^^ That's my plan, at least.
Indeed that is a good plan But facing bots within the tournament will kinda be more interesting^^
You can always add my ICCUP account ( LetaBot ) and /w me when I am online. I usually let my bot play 21:00 - 23:00 CET when I am online.
edit: not today though. Usually I am online on Wednesday at that time.
In our match vs. Team North America, due to delays in communication, the first game should be played tomorrow (Friday). This would leave only 1 day to play the remainder of the matches. As that is most likely not going to be enough time to coordinate all remaining games, what is the policy on time extensions and such?
On April 15 2016 05:30 Jealous wrote: In our match vs. Team North America, due to delays in communication, the first game should be played tomorrow (Friday). This would leave only 1 day to play the remainder of the matches. As that is most likely not going to be enough time to coordinate all remaining games, what is the policy on time extensions and such?
If you contact me with the date/time of the other matches (after you played your game on friday ofc) I can extend it. This tournament is already ahead in the other rounds, so there is no problem with extending the first round deadline.
On April 15 2016 05:30 Jealous wrote: In our match vs. Team North America, due to delays in communication, the first game should be played tomorrow (Friday). This would leave only 1 day to play the remainder of the matches. As that is most likely not going to be enough time to coordinate all remaining games, what is the policy on time extensions and such?
If you contact me with the date/time of the other matches (after you played your game on friday ofc) I can extend it. This tournament is already ahead in the other rounds, so there is no problem with extending the first round deadline.
Alright, I will keep you posted as the games are played and consequent scheduling is arranged.
Nope. LetaBot still has to play vs team Matepp92. Although it is unlikely that my bot will all-kill them. After that LetaBot's team and "Bots operated by LetaBot" are still in the loser bracket and can potentially still climb to the grand finals.
Nope. LetaBot still has to play vs team Matepp92. Although it is unlikely that my bot will all-kill them. After that LetaBot's team and "Bots operated by LetaBot" are still in the loser bracket and can potentially still climb to the grand finals.
nepeta does a good job commentating AI games. It would be awesome if he tried his hand at commentating human games. There are lots of high level tournaments happening, but not enough English commentators, so he'd perform a valuable service ... and he could use the opportunity to shamelessly promote AI-broodwar-related things. Imagine the possibilities ...
we give the freewin to DNH as Artanis and DNH didn't find a date to play the game this week. DNH, can you pls upload the replays on the defiler tour page? thx
On May 16 2016 08:26 Cele wrote: we give the freewin to DNH as Artanis and DNH didn't find a date to play the game this week. DNH, can you pls upload the replays on the defiler tour page? thx
On May 16 2016 02:31 Dazed_Spy wrote: So is my team now up against DNH? the bracket wasnt updated
Your team is now up against DNH. You don't have to wait for the bracket to update.
On May 29 2016 05:39 mpasteven wrote: Has Nepeta been able to cast the games yet?
First part of the upper bracket games are casted. Me and nepeta did a co-cast for it several days ago. First time casting Brood War for me, so don't expect a lot from me.
On June 03 2016 01:55 fischei1 wrote: LetaBot could you give us a Deadline for Winners Round 2 pls? Our last game was already over a month ago.
Well, unfortunately winners round 1 took a while for our opponent, which means round 2 was also delayed. Me and DNH have only had a few days to schedule our game, and we live in disparate time zones, and other life hassles.
I know that LetaBot has been having many delays in playing our game (like... a month lol), which will be the last of our match, but what is everyone else doing?
next game is being played tomorrow jealous. I know the schedule is already delayed a bit, but unfort. we can speed it up only so much due to real life stuff. Both teams try to play the remaining games in a timely fashion :>
On July 02 2016 06:39 Cele wrote: next game is being played tomorrow jealous. I know the schedule is already delayed a bit, but unfort. we can speed it up only so much due to real life stuff. Both teams try to play the remaining games in a timely fashion :>
On July 02 2016 06:39 Cele wrote: next game is being played tomorrow jealous. I know the schedule is already delayed a bit, but unfort. we can speed it up only so much due to real life stuff. Both teams try to play the remaining games in a timely fashion :>
On July 02 2016 06:39 Cele wrote: next game is being played tomorrow jealous. I know the schedule is already delayed a bit, but unfort. we can speed it up only so much due to real life stuff. Both teams try to play the remaining games in a timely fashion :>
On July 02 2016 06:39 Cele wrote: next game is being played tomorrow jealous. I know the schedule is already delayed a bit, but unfort. we can speed it up only so much due to real life stuff. Both teams try to play the remaining games in a timely fashion :>
Well? ^^
are we a bit impatient? ^^
I mean, you said tomorrow so I was hoping for an update ):
On July 02 2016 06:39 Cele wrote: next game is being played tomorrow jealous. I know the schedule is already delayed a bit, but unfort. we can speed it up only so much due to real life stuff. Both teams try to play the remaining games in a timely fashion :>
Well? ^^
are we a bit impatient? ^^
I mean, you said tomorrow so I was hoping for an update ):
On July 02 2016 06:39 Cele wrote: next game is being played tomorrow jealous. I know the schedule is already delayed a bit, but unfort. we can speed it up only so much due to real life stuff. Both teams try to play the remaining games in a timely fashion :>
On July 02 2016 06:39 Cele wrote: next game is being played tomorrow jealous. I know the schedule is already delayed a bit, but unfort. we can speed it up only so much due to real life stuff. Both teams try to play the remaining games in a timely fashion :>
Well? ^^
are we a bit impatient? ^^
I mean, you said tomorrow so I was hoping for an update ):
On July 02 2016 06:39 Cele wrote: next game is being played tomorrow jealous. I know the schedule is already delayed a bit, but unfort. we can speed it up only so much due to real life stuff. Both teams try to play the remaining games in a timely fashion :>
grats as well! Score is 3-1 for in favor of Team Sauerbraten. Last Match is gonna be Artanis vs FlashFTW and will be scheduled soon
just got informed that Team Blackbird gives W.O. for the last match. Bracket can be updated. Contact me on skype Jealous, we'll set up next round asaply!
grats as well! Score is 3-1 for in favor of Team Sauerbraten. Last Match is gonna be Artanis vs FlashFTW and will be scheduled soon
just got informed that Team Blackbird gives W.O. for the last match. Bracket can be updated. Contact me on skype Jealous, we'll set up next round asaply!
I just wanted to say that I quit BW and will not be able to play any matches for Team Sauerbraten anymore. If I have missed a scheduled match, I am really sorry. I thought we are out after the first loss.
On July 11 2016 01:43 chrisolo wrote: I just wanted to say that I quit BW and will not be able to play any matches for Team Sauerbraten anymore. If I have missed a scheduled match, I am really sorry. I thought we are out after the first loss.
Oh, what a bummer ;-/ hope to see you back some time soon
On July 11 2016 01:43 chrisolo wrote: I just wanted to say that I quit BW and will not be able to play any matches for Team Sauerbraten anymore. If I have missed a scheduled match, I am really sorry. I thought we are out after the first loss.
You don' t quit BW. Bw quits you. and then your back; see you in a coupleof months or a couple of years!
On July 11 2016 01:43 chrisolo wrote: I just wanted to say that I quit BW and will not be able to play any matches for Team Sauerbraten anymore. If I have missed a scheduled match, I am really sorry. I thought we are out after the first loss.
NOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO!! Why do you leave us? It must be + Show Spoiler +
Thanks LetaBot! Two things though, that gap between Barracks and Depot was 1 unit too wide, and I had never seen a LetaBot replay before so I was just abusing for the sake of abusing without knowing it would work or not xD
The last match between my team and Cele's team will be next Thursday.
On August 05 2016 02:21 Jealous wrote: Thanks LetaBot! Two things though, that gap between Barracks and Depot was 1 unit too wide, and I had never seen a LetaBot replay before so I was just abusing for the sake of abusing without knowing it would work or not xD
The last match between my team and Cele's team will be next Thursday.
What do you mean 1 unit too wide. IIRC your zealots were blocked from entering my main by that wall.
Now that i have played and seen in action bots various times, here are my thoughts on the subject: + Show Spoiler +
A machine is not capable of understanding concepts of winning or loosing, or the importance of the game
A human being does and will fight and give his best accordingly;
A machine does not understand why it is playing; it does not have a reason or a validity; it is being forced to execute what it was born for;
A human being may play out of boredom, enthusiasm, challenge, interest, addiction, determination, practice, show off, money, just to name a few.
The ai is capable of multitasking and micro, macro near or at levels of absolute perfection
The human is not capable of multitasking. What we are actually doing is executing different tasks at a super fast level, but still one after another and not simultaneously
The ai doesn' t have feelings. It is not capable of intuition, gut sense, not prone to steaming, steamrolling, trolling, bad or good manners, losing or staying on top of his game.
A human being brings, uses and subjugates, or falls victim to all the emotional range that is relevant to many many factors involved, logical and non logical.
The ai doesn' t have creativity. It cannot invent something new it did not know it was capable of doing.
A human is capable of pulling out things he would not have consciously thought possible.
The ai is not capable of taking a decision outside the math, or preset decision making.
Humans are making decisions all the time based on several factors logical and not, and can make good decisions, bad ones, mistakes and epic plays. Tries, testing the water, boldness, attempts and stubbornness
By the analysis of the elements above, a machine will never be able to become better than top human players, unless maybe all the human players that are available are less than D level. By best i mean winning a major korean tournament or equivalent. This is no matter what kind of modifications are brought to the bot software. If the hardware was modified, i.e. If a bot where programmed into a bionic being, that is to say half machine half animal, then i believe they are the possibilities to surpass even the best human player in the world( Flash ), by many extents.
On August 05 2016 02:21 Jealous wrote: Thanks LetaBot! Two things though, that gap between Barracks and Depot was 1 unit too wide, and I had never seen a LetaBot replay before so I was just abusing for the sake of abusing without knowing it would work or not xD
The last match between my team and Cele's team will be next Thursday.
What do you mean 1 unit too wide. IIRC your zealots were blocked from entering my main by that wall.
@20:03 in the first video you can see my Zealot pass through the gap easily. The Depot has to be adjacent to the Barracks in order to create a Zealot-tight wall.
On August 05 2016 02:21 Jealous wrote: Thanks LetaBot! Two things though, that gap between Barracks and Depot was 1 unit too wide, and I had never seen a LetaBot replay before so I was just abusing for the sake of abusing without knowing it would work or not xD
The last match between my team and Cele's team will be next Thursday.
What do you mean 1 unit too wide. IIRC your zealots were blocked from entering my main by that wall.
@20:03 in the first video you can see my Zealot pass through the gap easily. The Depot has to be adjacent to the Barracks in order to create a Zealot-tight wall.
Ah the match vs Krasi0. Yes that barracks was a bit misplaced in that regard. But the supply depots next to each other can be used for that marine trick as well, which krasi0 did do.
On August 05 2016 04:44 pebble444 wrote: Now that i have played and seen in action bots various times, here are my thoughts on the subject: + Show Spoiler +
A machine is not capable of understanding concepts of winning or loosing, or the importance of the game
A human being does and will fight and give his best accordingly;
A machine does not understand why it is playing; it does not have a reason or a validity; it is being forced to execute what it was born for;
A human being may play out of boredom, enthusiasm, challenge, interest, addiction, determination, practice, show off, money, just to name a few.
The ai is capable of multitasking and micro, macro near or at levels of absolute perfection
The human is not capable of multitasking. What we are actually doing is executing different tasks at a super fast level, but still one after another and not simultaneously
The ai doesn' t have feelings. It is not capable of intuition, gut sense, not prone to steaming, steamrolling, trolling, bad or good manners, losing or staying on top of his game.
A human being brings, uses and subjugates, or falls victim to all the emotional range that is relevant to many many factors involved, logical and non logical.
The ai doesn' t have creativity. It cannot invent something new it did not know it was capable of doing.
A human is capable of pulling out things he would not have consciously thought possible.
The ai is not capable of taking a decision outside the math, or preset decision making.
Humans are making decisions all the time based on several factors logical and not, and can make good decisions, bad ones, mistakes and epic plays. Tries, testing the water, boldness, attempts and stubbornness
By the analysis of the elements above, a machine will never be able to become better than top human players, unless maybe all the human players that are available are less than D level. By best i mean winning a major korean tournament or equivalent. This is no matter what kind of modifications are brought to the bot software. If the hardware was modified, i.e. If a bot where programmed into a bionic being, that is to say half machine half animal, then i believe they are the possibilities to surpass even the best human player in the world( Flash ), by many extents.
This is a highly philosophical stance that has major backing in the science community, or at least had for decades. The idea that AI can exist in a vacuum, as in without humans telling it what to do, is a highly debated subject. The core of the theory is - if it is humans that create AI, would the AI ever outgrow the parents? If we are AI's creators, then how can the AI ever exceed the human capacity? It's an interesting thought piece and although logic may dictate that AI can never surpass its maker, the top scientists of the previous generation have already been proven wrong on multiple counts as to the capability of AI. We are in the infant stages of it. It is too early to tell what AI can or cannot do.
More on the subject, after hearing the casts and playing against multiple AI myself, I have to say that the most immediate goal is to create algorithms that mimic situational awareness. LetaBot's creator kept saying that "this algorithm needs to be improved" or "this is on the to-do list." In my eyes, if you could create an AI that would analyze replays from an FPV, then it would be able to learn how to counter every strategy in the game. What I mean by this is, when you run a replay in BW, you are basically forcing two computers to recreate the actions committed by either player. If LetaBot could assume the role of Flash when watching replays, I think that it could possily not only gather information as to what build orders are good, what reactions are necessary to other builds (since it would have access to the actions of the opponent), it would also learn timings and movement. Being an AI and not a human, it could analyze these things at x16 or even from parsing the data contained within a replay, meaning that its learning potential is only limited by the strength of its learning algorithm and the replays fed to it. If one AI is fed Flash replays, another Jaedongs, and another Bisu's, and they were forced to simulate round-robin games for a couple of weeks non-stop, I am sure that even further progress will emerge. Of course, this is all easier said than done. However, I think that the philosophical approach to this issue which you used to argue that machines have no desire to win/no emotion is not the machine's disadvantage in this scenario. Their lack of pure creativity will still exist. In other words...
What I see now is that programmers are manually inputting building placements, build orders, adaptive strategies, etc. If this process could be automated, then an AI which would be much more capable of beating a C level player consistently will emerge quite rapidly given the vast amount of data (replays) and processing power (modern computers) available. Humans would be forced into a scenario where they know their mechanics cannot compete with the computer's, so they must present a scenario that the AI is unfamiliar with, knowing full well that after presenting the scenario once, the AI will learn of its existence and then it would try all of its existing builds in order to beat it. If adaptability is on a higher level than we currently expect, it may even blend strategies and ideas. If pure information gathering is on an extreme level and it was fed all currently existing XvY replays, surely at some point it will find a build that beats your "new" build, even though (theoretically) we know that no genuinely new ideas exist and that more likely than not, any build you try has won and lost 10 times in the history of Brood War. In short, an AI of that level would only benefit from every loss whereas players like mishin on ICCup prove that humans have a far lesser capacity for such growth.
That in my opinion is the future of AI in a competitive environment such as this. The Go bot has shown that it is possible. BW is a much more open battle field with much more resulting variance on input and therefore output, so it will take a few more years of development from dedicated programmers such as LetaBot in order for us to reach that point. However, all predictions for the development of AI have been beaten in other areas already, so maybe mine is subject to the same exponential error but it is what it is. All I can say is I am excited for the future, and that a bot that can beat Flash will be a reality, especially once his new ideas run out and he starts repeating builds from the 20 years of SC:BW.
I think the braket is not up to date. We (well, only Artanis) has already played vs. team "Bots operated by LetaBot". LetaBot, could you please update the braket or can't do you do it as of now because pepple's team and dnh's team haven't played yet?^^
On August 18 2016 19:58 RedW4rr10r wrote: I think the braket is not up to date. We (well, only Artanis) has already played vs. team "Bots operated by LetaBot". LetaBot, could you please update the braket or can't do you do it as of now because pepple's team and dnh's team haven't played yet?^^
Cele will have to upload those replays. I as an admin cannot upload replays for people on defiler.ru
On August 18 2016 19:58 RedW4rr10r wrote: I think the braket is not up to date. We (well, only Artanis) has already played vs. team "Bots operated by LetaBot". LetaBot, could you please update the braket or can't do you do it as of now because pepple's team and dnh's team haven't played yet?^^
Cele will have to upload those replays. I as an admin cannot upload replays for people on defiler.ru
So; due to iccup being under attack yesterday and this now i don t think me and DNH will be able to play our games today. I don' t have a fish account anymore and i don' t know much about garena. We used to use Hamachi back in the days of DRTL but i don' t even know if it exists now anymore
On August 24 2016 01:20 pebble444 wrote: So; due to iccup being under attack yesterday and this now i don t think me and DNH will be able to play our games today. I don' t have a fish account anymore and i don' t know much about garena. We used to use Hamachi back in the days of DRTL but i don' t even know if it exists now anymore
It still exists. But you can also use direct IP in case the server is down.
The new game from Zachtronics is about to release on steam early access. By the looks of it, it is more intermediate than SpaceChem or Infinifactory but if you have some programming experience you most likely will enjoy this title.
Cele mentioned that no one contacted him yet. If by the end of december there is still no game scheduled, I will unfortunately have to give a W.O, since the new game from Zachtronics has been released for a while now, so it has to end relatively soon.
Actually, looking at the skill levels of the respective teams, and how the initial games turned out, I wouldn't bet too much on us winning right now. Anyways, GL HF!
On January 14 2017 00:28 RedW4rr10r wrote: The final matches are about to be set up soon. I've just checked the liquipedia link. That grid there is totally empty xD
The Liquidpedia was in case defiler.ru was not an option.
On January 15 2017 19:54 Cele wrote: Finals start today, Sunday 15th on 19 CET. Team Wurstwasser vs Team Sauerbraten!!! + Show Spoiler +
And Artanis, of course. Who is to blame for everything.+ Show Spoiler +
Really everything. Gecko confirmed it.
In case someone's interrested in game 1 of the finals Team Wurstwasser represtented by fischei vs. Team Sauerbraten represented by Cele here is the cast (don't expect a high quality cast though^^) Starting at around 3:50 Bonus: Two showmatches between fischei and Artanis[xp] ^^
The progress is real! It's 2-1 so far. Next match will be soon! I couldn't cast Set 2 because there were some technical issues with the players (and I wasn't at home by that time xD). As I was told the players had to save/load the game due to hard lag spikes and incoming drop screens, so even the replay is unwatchable. I was playing Set 3 myself, so I couldn't cast it, either, but I streamed it nonetheless. So if anyone is interested in the progress of these finals, feel free to check out my FPVOD (Trooper and I played some "bonus matches for fun" after the first "important" match that counts^^). Link to VOD
Ladies and Gentleman, I am glad to announce to you the final of our D/C Man vs. Machine TeamLeagueto finally make an end to it before its 1st anniversary. The final showdown will take place this Saturday, March 11th at 19:0019:30 CET between
Team Wurstwasser and Team Sauerbraten
fischei vs. Artanis[xp]
The current score is 3:2 in favour of Team Sauerbraten. This is going to be a bo1 (as before) and will be casted on my stream channel.
As for a small recap of the previous final's matches: neustadt vs. AoP)Cele trooper[xdt] vs. AoP)Cele trooper[xdt] vs. RedW4rr10r 1400 vs. RedW4rr10r fischei vs. RedW4rr10r
Make sure to not miss this epic event! (notice the corrected time postponed by 30min)
On March 09 2017 02:59 RedW4rr10r wrote: Ladies and Gentleman, I am glad to announce to you the final of our D/C Man vs. Machine TeamLeagueto finally make an end to it before its 1st anniversary. The final showdown will take place this Saturday, March 11th at 19:0019:30 CET between
Team Wurstwasser and Team Sauerbraten
fischei vs. Artanis[xp]
The current score is 3:2 in favour of Team Sauerbraten. This is going to be a bo1 (as before) and will be casted on my stream channel.
As for a small recap of the previous final's matches: neustadt vs. AoP)Cele trooper[xdt] vs. AoP)Cele trooper[xdt] vs. RedW4rr10r 1400 vs. RedW4rr10r fischei vs. RedW4rr10r
Make sure to not miss this epic event! (notice the corrected time postponed by 30min)
For those who missed the match and are still interested in its and this tournament's outcome, here's the vod: VOD
EPT
D/C man vs machine Teamleague
LetaBot
OverKill
pibbot
artmann
.
trooper[xdt] vs. 
