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On July 23 2015 09:00 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 08:53 neteX wrote:On July 23 2015 08:52 2Pacalypse- wrote:On July 23 2015 08:49 neteX wrote:
Is the people that was banned from TSL allowed to participate that abused in TSL before? I got 2 friends that got banned and is curious if they can participate? We didn't discuss an official policy on this yet, but we're willing to do so. Can you tell us who they are so we can take a look at their case more closely? Its the same tournament when Scan got banned  It's the exact same case when he got banned.. They are just curious and they don't want to say if they're gonna participate or not. Since they don't know if they are allowed to play. I understand the foreigners in this thread etc, but scan is different from other koreans. Hes been in the foreign scene playing with foreigners a lot for so many years now. If they were banned at the same time, then their penalties are written in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/108352-tsl-tl-punishes-cheaters12 months have long passed since then ^^. So yes, they would be allowed to participate.
Oh thank you i totally missed that one, ty again for linking that. 12 months and TSL3 aiit got it I'll tell them . Hope they'll join just to make the tournament more interesting.
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BisuDagger, I am happy to hear about the wedding and feel bad about your dad. I really hope all is well with you and your family for as long as possible.
But players can also have issues to spend physical time on. The thing is that for organizers to do this it will take 1 hour a day for a month and everybody and their grandma in Korea will know about the TL Legacy Cup series for the next 3 months, after this not as big absolute amount of time you have a success. Whereas for the players to prepare properly you need them to play actual games/prepare build orders/ study maps/talk strategies with others and in my opinion this will take much more time. Perhaps it was an emotional speech of yours to get players onto organizers side of the argument and to participate and practice. But the content of the speech leaves me with the impression that you want some sort of a trade-off between organizers and players - you are giving the gift of putting time and efforts into organizing it as best as possible and in exchange you want them to prepare as best as possible. In this case, it is strange to me that you ask a broad entity of players to practice hard for a year to get a 60% chance (at best) for something while saying that chatting with and searching for koreans for a month from time to time is beyond the time, energy and resources of the whole entity of organizers?
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Bisutopia19246 Posts
On July 23 2015 09:31 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
BisuDagger, I am happy to hear about the wedding and feel bad about your dad. I really hope all is well with you and your family for as long as possible.
But players can also have issues to spend physical time on. The thing is that for organizers to do this it will take 1 hour a day for a month and everybody and their grandma in Korea will know about the TL Legacy Cup series for the next 3 months, after this not as big absolute amount of time you have a success. Whereas for the players to prepare properly you need them to play actual games/prepare build orders/ study maps/talk strategies with others and in my opinion this will take much more time. Perhaps it was an emotional speech of yours to get players onto organizers side of the argument and to participate and practice. But the content of the speech leaves me with the impression that you want some sort of a trade-off between organizers and players - you are giving the gift of putting time and efforts into organizing it as best as possible and in exchange you want them to prepare as best as possible. In this case, it is strange to me that you ask a broad entity of players to practice hard for a year to get a 60% chance (at best) for something while saying that chatting with and searching for koreans for a month from time to time is beyond the time, energy and resources of the whole entity of organizers?
I just want people to be happy and play. That's the only exchange I am asking for
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The point that is being raised here is that  Scan has had the Chance to engage, train and participate in post KeSpa SOSPA events- the closest we know to old progaming standards. He has different and better pratice partners, like  ZerO, speaks fluent korean and is able to play with a low ping and little lag on fish. That all is true.
Let's take a look back at  2009 Pokerstrategy.com TSL, shall we? This tournament explicitly addressed foreigners, is remembered by most of us as one of the all time best foreigner tournaments and as a successful and interesting tournament. And the TSL is obviously, by intention, design, tournament format and even layout the predecessor and forefather of TLS
The rules stated that
Korean and Chinese IP addresses are prohibited (unless granted exemption by TSL Administration)
What's the intention of the law? It serves two purposes, it provides games with little lag and excludes korean Gosu's.
Yet, the TLS Final Bracket had 3 players with experience with professional korean broodwar in it.IdrA, who was notorious and famous for training very hard and grinding a ton of games in the CJ_Entus House, Ret who nearly made in a courage tournament (there's a vid of this with Artosis, i can't find it right now) and switched from TvZ to ZvZ for that, and  NonY who made second place in a courage.
Those players had the same advantages in some time of their career, for Idra right then, as Scan has now. They had acess to the best training partners. They played them with no lag. (LAN obviously.) THey didn't speak korean, but then they didn't attend summer class, but trained all day in the best environment possible.
Yet, to me in TSL 2 their advantage was not a problem. IdrA, who was the huge favorite before the tournament to many, didn't win it. He lost to NonY in the Semifinals, as we know. You might argue Nony had progaming experience too, but his stay in Korea was much shorter, he came back after an extended break and he trained in the US for the event, while Idra trained in part in Korea.
In the finals he won a close nailbiter vs Mondragon, a Zerg Superstar, but without korean pro gaming background whatsoever.
In short, players with a back ground or at least some experience in professional korean BW ddin't overshadow the TSL 2, at least the way i see it.
What's the difference
THe foreign scene before the TSL 2 was in a much better place than it is today. Players didn't live from BW, but they could make a decent amount on the side, with sponsor contracts and prize money. There were plenty opportunity to play, where we have been lacking opportunities and tournaments in the past. The issue here is NOT that Scan has acesss to very good training conditions, the issue is that nobody kept up with him. Place the Scan of today in the Ro16 of TSL 2 and it would be fine.
Conclusion
I understand the frsutration top players feel to catch up to a player who seems to have a insurmountable advantage. But first, people thought the same way about IdrA and we know how that turned out. Secondly, Scan shouldn't be punished for thriving for the best training conditions.
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On July 23 2015 09:50 Cele wrote:The point that is being raised here is that Scan has had the Chance to engage, train and participate in post KeSpa SOSPA events- the closest we know to old progaming standards. He has different and better pratice partners, like ZerO, speaks fluent korean and is able to play with a low ping and little lag on fish. That all is true. Let's take a look back at 2009 Pokerstrategy.com TSL, shall we? This tournament explicitly addressed foreigners, is remembered by most of us as one of the all time best foreigner tournaments and as a successful and interesting tournament. And the TSL is obviously, by intention, design, tournament format and even layout the predecessor and forefather of TLS The rules stated that Show nested quote +
Korean and Chinese IP addresses are prohibited (unless granted exemption by TSL Administration)
What's the intention of the law? It serves two purposes, it provides games with little lag and excludes korean Gosu's. Yet, the TLS Final Bracket had 3 players with experience with professional korean broodwar in it. IdrA, who was notorious and famous for training very hard and grinding a ton of games in the CJ_Entus House, Ret who nearly made in a courage tournament (there's a vid of this with Artosis, i can't find it right now) and switched from TvZ to ZvZ for that, and NonY who made second place in a courage. Those players had the same advantages in some time of their career, for Idra right then, as Scan has now. They had acess to the best training partners. They played them with no lag. (LAN obviously.) THey didn't speak korean, but then they didn't attend summer class, but trained all day in the best environment possible.Yet, to me in TSL 2 their advantage was not a problem. IdrA, who was the huge favorite before the tournament to many, didn't win it. He lost to NonY in the Semifinals, as we know. You might argue Nony had progaming experience too, but his stay in Korea was much shorter, he came back after an extended break and he trained in the US for the event, while Idra trained in part in Korea. In the finals he won a close nailbiter vs Mondragon, a Zerg Superstar, but without korean pro gaming background whatsoever. In short, players with a back ground or at least some experience in professional korean BW ddin't overshadow the TSL 2, at least the way i see it. What's the differenceTHe foreign scene before the TSL 2 was in a much better place than it is today. Players didn't live from BW, but they could make a decent amount on the side, with sponsor contracts and prize money. There were plenty opportunity to play, where we have been lacking opportunities and tournaments in the past. The issue here is NOT that Scan has acesss to very good training conditions, the issue is that nobody kept up with him. Place the Scan of today in the Ro16 of TSL 2 and it would be fine. ConclusionI understand the frsutration top players feel to catch up to a player who seems to have a insurmountable advantage. But first, people thought the same way about IdrA and we know how that turned out. Secondly, Scan shouldn't be punished for thriving for the best training conditions.
You do realize that Mondragon knew so many koreans and practiced vs them even had clanwars vs extremely good korean teams. Mondragon has been training and practicing vs the very best koreans also. So saying that he didn't have any practice or any type of progaming practice is false.
I knew dizzy back then and i also know that he had a lot of korean friends/contacts. Even Testie knew most of the koreans that were good back then. What happens behind the scene isn't easy to know about but saying stuff without knowing is meh.
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On July 23 2015 10:06 neteX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 09:50 Cele wrote:The point that is being raised here is that Scan has had the Chance to engage, train and participate in post KeSpa SOSPA events- the closest we know to old progaming standards. He has different and better pratice partners, like ZerO, speaks fluent korean and is able to play with a low ping and little lag on fish. That all is true. Let's take a look back at 2009 Pokerstrategy.com TSL, shall we? This tournament explicitly addressed foreigners, is remembered by most of us as one of the all time best foreigner tournaments and as a successful and interesting tournament. And the TSL is obviously, by intention, design, tournament format and even layout the predecessor and forefather of TLS The rules stated that
Korean and Chinese IP addresses are prohibited (unless granted exemption by TSL Administration)
What's the intention of the law? It serves two purposes, it provides games with little lag and excludes korean Gosu's. Yet, the TLS Final Bracket had 3 players with experience with professional korean broodwar in it. IdrA, who was notorious and famous for training very hard and grinding a ton of games in the CJ_Entus House, Ret who nearly made in a courage tournament (there's a vid of this with Artosis, i can't find it right now) and switched from TvZ to ZvZ for that, and NonY who made second place in a courage. Those players had the same advantages in some time of their career, for Idra right then, as Scan has now. They had acess to the best training partners. They played them with no lag. (LAN obviously.) THey didn't speak korean, but then they didn't attend summer class, but trained all day in the best environment possible.Yet, to me in TSL 2 their advantage was not a problem. IdrA, who was the huge favorite before the tournament to many, didn't win it. He lost to NonY in the Semifinals, as we know. You might argue Nony had progaming experience too, but his stay in Korea was much shorter, he came back after an extended break and he trained in the US for the event, while Idra trained in part in Korea. In the finals he won a close nailbiter vs Mondragon, a Zerg Superstar, but without korean pro gaming background whatsoever. In short, players with a back ground or at least some experience in professional korean BW ddin't overshadow the TSL 2, at least the way i see it. What's the differenceTHe foreign scene before the TSL 2 was in a much better place than it is today. Players didn't live from BW, but they could make a decent amount on the side, with sponsor contracts and prize money. There were plenty opportunity to play, where we have been lacking opportunities and tournaments in the past. The issue here is NOT that Scan has acesss to very good training conditions, the issue is that nobody kept up with him. Place the Scan of today in the Ro16 of TSL 2 and it would be fine. ConclusionI understand the frsutration top players feel to catch up to a player who seems to have a insurmountable advantage. But first, people thought the same way about IdrA and we know how that turned out. Secondly, Scan shouldn't be punished for thriving for the best training conditions. You do realize that Mondragon knew so many koreans and practiced vs them even had clanwars vs extremely good korean teams. Mondragon has been training and practicing vs the very best koreans also. So saying that he didn't have any practice or any type of progaming practice is false. I knew dizzy back then and i also know that he had a lot of korean friends/contacts. Even Testie knew most of the koreans that were good back then. What happens behind the scene isn't easy to know about but saying stuff without knowing is meh.
i realize and i talk to him now and then still. So yes i know what i talk about. But point is: He didnt't speak korean, he had the same lag issues players face today, he never played in pro kor BW. Players today still can get in contact and play with korean gosu's. They can also befriend them, there is no difference to the possibilities dissy had
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2pac- thank you for the links. I really admit I am not familiar with Scan's contributions to the foreign scene. I cannot really speak of him. My best take is this: I've seen him play a lot of 2v2s on iccup with foreigners and probably exchanged info with foreigners about builds and tactics... Maybe they even practiced 1v1 a bit and theorycrafted. Maybe.
The bigger contribution of the two links, to me - the three-paged thread is a good start for a major contribution and I welcome the efforts. However I am more impressed with zimp's one here for instance: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/310883-replays . Perhaps I spent more time and was more diligent doing the "Under the Radar" thread in a shorter time span than scan's one but anyways... Perhaps i was better off writing a Zerg guide instead of placing responses here. But hey if an organizer has decided this thread is enough of a contribution to allow him play in the face of such a stiff opposition who am I to disagree? That was harsh and unneeded though, perhaps he really does contribute - as I said not sure about that.
To answer your question - if I were to go to Korea right now, having not played seriously for a whole lot of time, it will be laughable to consider me an edge case.
In the end facing such responses from organizers is not something that motivates me so far and I will just continue to not play. But I guess events have a relatively long way to unfold from now so I guess we will wait and see what happens
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On July 23 2015 09:37 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 09:31 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
BisuDagger, I am happy to hear about the wedding and feel bad about your dad. I really hope all is well with you and your family for as long as possible.
But players can also have issues to spend physical time on. The thing is that for organizers to do this it will take 1 hour a day for a month and everybody and their grandma in Korea will know about the TL Legacy Cup series for the next 3 months, after this not as big absolute amount of time you have a success. Whereas for the players to prepare properly you need them to play actual games/prepare build orders/ study maps/talk strategies with others and in my opinion this will take much more time. Perhaps it was an emotional speech of yours to get players onto organizers side of the argument and to participate and practice. But the content of the speech leaves me with the impression that you want some sort of a trade-off between organizers and players - you are giving the gift of putting time and efforts into organizing it as best as possible and in exchange you want them to prepare as best as possible. In this case, it is strange to me that you ask a broad entity of players to practice hard for a year to get a 60% chance (at best) for something while saying that chatting with and searching for koreans for a month from time to time is beyond the time, energy and resources of the whole entity of organizers? I just want people to be happy and play. That's the only exchange I am asking for
That is very nice to hear but imo people don't get happy after playing hard for a year to get a 50% winratio at best (sorry for the rough estimations) not being sure the whole time whether the tournament was being some sort of fair to them.
I think I made my point somewhat clear
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On July 23 2015 10:10 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 10:06 neteX wrote:On July 23 2015 09:50 Cele wrote:The point that is being raised here is that Scan has had the Chance to engage, train and participate in post KeSpa SOSPA events- the closest we know to old progaming standards. He has different and better pratice partners, like ZerO, speaks fluent korean and is able to play with a low ping and little lag on fish. That all is true. Let's take a look back at 2009 Pokerstrategy.com TSL, shall we? This tournament explicitly addressed foreigners, is remembered by most of us as one of the all time best foreigner tournaments and as a successful and interesting tournament. And the TSL is obviously, by intention, design, tournament format and even layout the predecessor and forefather of TLS The rules stated that
Korean and Chinese IP addresses are prohibited (unless granted exemption by TSL Administration)
What's the intention of the law? It serves two purposes, it provides games with little lag and excludes korean Gosu's. Yet, the TLS Final Bracket had 3 players with experience with professional korean broodwar in it. IdrA, who was notorious and famous for training very hard and grinding a ton of games in the CJ_Entus House, Ret who nearly made in a courage tournament (there's a vid of this with Artosis, i can't find it right now) and switched from TvZ to ZvZ for that, and NonY who made second place in a courage. Those players had the same advantages in some time of their career, for Idra right then, as Scan has now. They had acess to the best training partners. They played them with no lag. (LAN obviously.) THey didn't speak korean, but then they didn't attend summer class, but trained all day in the best environment possible.Yet, to me in TSL 2 their advantage was not a problem. IdrA, who was the huge favorite before the tournament to many, didn't win it. He lost to NonY in the Semifinals, as we know. You might argue Nony had progaming experience too, but his stay in Korea was much shorter, he came back after an extended break and he trained in the US for the event, while Idra trained in part in Korea. In the finals he won a close nailbiter vs Mondragon, a Zerg Superstar, but without korean pro gaming background whatsoever. In short, players with a back ground or at least some experience in professional korean BW ddin't overshadow the TSL 2, at least the way i see it. What's the differenceTHe foreign scene before the TSL 2 was in a much better place than it is today. Players didn't live from BW, but they could make a decent amount on the side, with sponsor contracts and prize money. There were plenty opportunity to play, where we have been lacking opportunities and tournaments in the past. The issue here is NOT that Scan has acesss to very good training conditions, the issue is that nobody kept up with him. Place the Scan of today in the Ro16 of TSL 2 and it would be fine. ConclusionI understand the frsutration top players feel to catch up to a player who seems to have a insurmountable advantage. But first, people thought the same way about IdrA and we know how that turned out. Secondly, Scan shouldn't be punished for thriving for the best training conditions. You do realize that Mondragon knew so many koreans and practiced vs them even had clanwars vs extremely good korean teams. Mondragon has been training and practicing vs the very best koreans also. So saying that he didn't have any practice or any type of progaming practice is false. I knew dizzy back then and i also know that he had a lot of korean friends/contacts. Even Testie knew most of the koreans that were good back then. What happens behind the scene isn't easy to know about but saying stuff without knowing is meh. i realize and i talk to him now and then still. So yes i know what i talk about. But point is: He didnt't speak korean, he had the same lag issues players face today, he never played in pro kor BW. Players today still can get in contact and play with korean gosu's. They can also befriend them, there is no difference to the possibilities dissy had
1. back then there were a lot of pro players in the foreign scene. Now the amount of activity is nothing compared to what it used to be, which makes it EXTREMELY hard to practice. If you still talk or knew him back then you should know how much contacts he had in the korean scene and how many clanwars he used to have and the amount of time he spent playing vs koreans on different servers/realms.
Also the korean scene back then was much more active than it is now so that's has also decreased and made it worse for people to practice. When i was active and competing iccup was active with a lot of foreign pro players and now you can barely find any good on iccup playing actively. Only thing that is active on iccup these days and for many seasons is 2v2 and that's not even serious gaming. Which isn't good practice for 1v1 serious players.
There is no way anyone of us can compare the activity/amount of practice now and back then from both scenes (korean/foreign)
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On July 23 2015 10:18 neteX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 10:10 Cele wrote:On July 23 2015 10:06 neteX wrote:On July 23 2015 09:50 Cele wrote:The point that is being raised here is that Scan has had the Chance to engage, train and participate in post KeSpa SOSPA events- the closest we know to old progaming standards. He has different and better pratice partners, like ZerO, speaks fluent korean and is able to play with a low ping and little lag on fish. That all is true. Let's take a look back at 2009 Pokerstrategy.com TSL, shall we? This tournament explicitly addressed foreigners, is remembered by most of us as one of the all time best foreigner tournaments and as a successful and interesting tournament. And the TSL is obviously, by intention, design, tournament format and even layout the predecessor and forefather of TLS The rules stated that
Korean and Chinese IP addresses are prohibited (unless granted exemption by TSL Administration)
What's the intention of the law? It serves two purposes, it provides games with little lag and excludes korean Gosu's. Yet, the TLS Final Bracket had 3 players with experience with professional korean broodwar in it. IdrA, who was notorious and famous for training very hard and grinding a ton of games in the CJ_Entus House, Ret who nearly made in a courage tournament (there's a vid of this with Artosis, i can't find it right now) and switched from TvZ to ZvZ for that, and NonY who made second place in a courage. Those players had the same advantages in some time of their career, for Idra right then, as Scan has now. They had acess to the best training partners. They played them with no lag. (LAN obviously.) THey didn't speak korean, but then they didn't attend summer class, but trained all day in the best environment possible.Yet, to me in TSL 2 their advantage was not a problem. IdrA, who was the huge favorite before the tournament to many, didn't win it. He lost to NonY in the Semifinals, as we know. You might argue Nony had progaming experience too, but his stay in Korea was much shorter, he came back after an extended break and he trained in the US for the event, while Idra trained in part in Korea. In the finals he won a close nailbiter vs Mondragon, a Zerg Superstar, but without korean pro gaming background whatsoever. In short, players with a back ground or at least some experience in professional korean BW ddin't overshadow the TSL 2, at least the way i see it. What's the differenceTHe foreign scene before the TSL 2 was in a much better place than it is today. Players didn't live from BW, but they could make a decent amount on the side, with sponsor contracts and prize money. There were plenty opportunity to play, where we have been lacking opportunities and tournaments in the past. The issue here is NOT that Scan has acesss to very good training conditions, the issue is that nobody kept up with him. Place the Scan of today in the Ro16 of TSL 2 and it would be fine. ConclusionI understand the frsutration top players feel to catch up to a player who seems to have a insurmountable advantage. But first, people thought the same way about IdrA and we know how that turned out. Secondly, Scan shouldn't be punished for thriving for the best training conditions. You do realize that Mondragon knew so many koreans and practiced vs them even had clanwars vs extremely good korean teams. Mondragon has been training and practicing vs the very best koreans also. So saying that he didn't have any practice or any type of progaming practice is false. I knew dizzy back then and i also know that he had a lot of korean friends/contacts. Even Testie knew most of the koreans that were good back then. What happens behind the scene isn't easy to know about but saying stuff without knowing is meh. i realize and i talk to him now and then still. So yes i know what i talk about. But point is: He didnt't speak korean, he had the same lag issues players face today, he never played in pro kor BW. Players today still can get in contact and play with korean gosu's. They can also befriend them, there is no difference to the possibilities dissy had 1. back then there were a lot of pro players in the foreign scene. Now the amount of activity is nothing compared to what it used to be, which makes it EXTREMELY hard to practice. If you still talk or knew him back then you should know how much contacts he had in the korean scene and how many clanwars he used to have and the amount of time he spent playing vs koreans on different servers/realms. Also the korean scene back then was much more active than it is now so that's has also decreased and made it worse for people to practice. When i was active and competing iccup was active with a lot of foreign pro players and now you can barely find any good on iccup playing actively. Only thing that is active on iccup these days and for many seasons is 2v2 and that's not even serious gaming. Which isn't good practice for 1v1 serious players. There is no way anyone of us can compare the activity/amount of practice now and back then from both scenes (korean/foreign)
i agree, the problem is not Scan, the problem in what place the foreign BW scene is. There is little pratice, very hard to get a good team, good partner, motivate yourself for top events and find a korean Team to play a friendly CW with you. Let's not talk about all the ongoing leagues like BWCL that are gone too. I don't think it is comparable, you are right.
But that's what i wanted to say: The problem isn't Scan's skill level- it is very high of course- but the real problem is the opportunities for other players to get there. And i don't think Scan should be punished for that.
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Bisutopia19246 Posts
On July 23 2015 10:16 LRM)TechnicS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 09:37 BisuDagger wrote:On July 23 2015 09:31 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
BisuDagger, I am happy to hear about the wedding and feel bad about your dad. I really hope all is well with you and your family for as long as possible.
But players can also have issues to spend physical time on. The thing is that for organizers to do this it will take 1 hour a day for a month and everybody and their grandma in Korea will know about the TL Legacy Cup series for the next 3 months, after this not as big absolute amount of time you have a success. Whereas for the players to prepare properly you need them to play actual games/prepare build orders/ study maps/talk strategies with others and in my opinion this will take much more time. Perhaps it was an emotional speech of yours to get players onto organizers side of the argument and to participate and practice. But the content of the speech leaves me with the impression that you want some sort of a trade-off between organizers and players - you are giving the gift of putting time and efforts into organizing it as best as possible and in exchange you want them to prepare as best as possible. In this case, it is strange to me that you ask a broad entity of players to practice hard for a year to get a 60% chance (at best) for something while saying that chatting with and searching for koreans for a month from time to time is beyond the time, energy and resources of the whole entity of organizers? I just want people to be happy and play. That's the only exchange I am asking for That is very nice to hear but imo people don't get happy after playing hard for a year to get a 50% winratio at best (sorry for the rough estimations) not being sure the whole time whether the tournament was being some sort of fair to them. I think I made my point somewhat clear
I understand what you are saying. But since we aren't budging as of now, something that hasn't been mentioned is it is not a guarantee that Scan will play in every weekend tournament from here to the end either. There will certainly be some he misses and opportunity to win it all win be even higher. Just some added insight.
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On July 23 2015 10:32 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 10:16 LRM)TechnicS wrote:On July 23 2015 09:37 BisuDagger wrote:On July 23 2015 09:31 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
BisuDagger, I am happy to hear about the wedding and feel bad about your dad. I really hope all is well with you and your family for as long as possible.
But players can also have issues to spend physical time on. The thing is that for organizers to do this it will take 1 hour a day for a month and everybody and their grandma in Korea will know about the TL Legacy Cup series for the next 3 months, after this not as big absolute amount of time you have a success. Whereas for the players to prepare properly you need them to play actual games/prepare build orders/ study maps/talk strategies with others and in my opinion this will take much more time. Perhaps it was an emotional speech of yours to get players onto organizers side of the argument and to participate and practice. But the content of the speech leaves me with the impression that you want some sort of a trade-off between organizers and players - you are giving the gift of putting time and efforts into organizing it as best as possible and in exchange you want them to prepare as best as possible. In this case, it is strange to me that you ask a broad entity of players to practice hard for a year to get a 60% chance (at best) for something while saying that chatting with and searching for koreans for a month from time to time is beyond the time, energy and resources of the whole entity of organizers? I just want people to be happy and play. That's the only exchange I am asking for That is very nice to hear but imo people don't get happy after playing hard for a year to get a 50% winratio at best (sorry for the rough estimations) not being sure the whole time whether the tournament was being some sort of fair to them. I think I made my point somewhat clear I understand what you are saying. But since we aren't budging as of now, something that hasn't been mentioned is it is not a guarantee that Scan will play in every weekend tournament from here to the end either. There will certainly be some he misses and opportunity to win it all win be even higher. Just some added insight.
Should I try to participate every tours? No twitch memes :/
I'm at Gwangju, meeting and having fun with sc2 pro gamja.
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On July 23 2015 10:32 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 10:16 LRM)TechnicS wrote:On July 23 2015 09:37 BisuDagger wrote:On July 23 2015 09:31 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
BisuDagger, I am happy to hear about the wedding and feel bad about your dad. I really hope all is well with you and your family for as long as possible.
But players can also have issues to spend physical time on. The thing is that for organizers to do this it will take 1 hour a day for a month and everybody and their grandma in Korea will know about the TL Legacy Cup series for the next 3 months, after this not as big absolute amount of time you have a success. Whereas for the players to prepare properly you need them to play actual games/prepare build orders/ study maps/talk strategies with others and in my opinion this will take much more time. Perhaps it was an emotional speech of yours to get players onto organizers side of the argument and to participate and practice. But the content of the speech leaves me with the impression that you want some sort of a trade-off between organizers and players - you are giving the gift of putting time and efforts into organizing it as best as possible and in exchange you want them to prepare as best as possible. In this case, it is strange to me that you ask a broad entity of players to practice hard for a year to get a 60% chance (at best) for something while saying that chatting with and searching for koreans for a month from time to time is beyond the time, energy and resources of the whole entity of organizers? I just want people to be happy and play. That's the only exchange I am asking for That is very nice to hear but imo people don't get happy after playing hard for a year to get a 50% winratio at best (sorry for the rough estimations) not being sure the whole time whether the tournament was being some sort of fair to them. I think I made my point somewhat clear I understand what you are saying. But since we aren't budging as of now, something that hasn't been mentioned is it is not a guarantee that Scan will play in every weekend tournament from here to the end either. There will certainly be some he misses and opportunity to win it all win be even higher. Just some added insight.
what about a 1 week or 2 week cooldown for winner?
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On July 23 2015 15:37 art_of_turtle wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 10:32 BisuDagger wrote:On July 23 2015 10:16 LRM)TechnicS wrote:On July 23 2015 09:37 BisuDagger wrote:On July 23 2015 09:31 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
BisuDagger, I am happy to hear about the wedding and feel bad about your dad. I really hope all is well with you and your family for as long as possible.
But players can also have issues to spend physical time on. The thing is that for organizers to do this it will take 1 hour a day for a month and everybody and their grandma in Korea will know about the TL Legacy Cup series for the next 3 months, after this not as big absolute amount of time you have a success. Whereas for the players to prepare properly you need them to play actual games/prepare build orders/ study maps/talk strategies with others and in my opinion this will take much more time. Perhaps it was an emotional speech of yours to get players onto organizers side of the argument and to participate and practice. But the content of the speech leaves me with the impression that you want some sort of a trade-off between organizers and players - you are giving the gift of putting time and efforts into organizing it as best as possible and in exchange you want them to prepare as best as possible. In this case, it is strange to me that you ask a broad entity of players to practice hard for a year to get a 60% chance (at best) for something while saying that chatting with and searching for koreans for a month from time to time is beyond the time, energy and resources of the whole entity of organizers? I just want people to be happy and play. That's the only exchange I am asking for That is very nice to hear but imo people don't get happy after playing hard for a year to get a 50% winratio at best (sorry for the rough estimations) not being sure the whole time whether the tournament was being some sort of fair to them. I think I made my point somewhat clear I understand what you are saying. But since we aren't budging as of now, something that hasn't been mentioned is it is not a guarantee that Scan will play in every weekend tournament from here to the end either. There will certainly be some he misses and opportunity to win it all win be even higher. Just some added insight. what about a 1 week or 2 week cooldown for winner?
I don't find it necessary. If there's a player dedicated enough to keep showing up and taking 1st week after week (scan included) i dont think they should be denied or punished for that.
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On July 23 2015 15:37 art_of_turtle wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 10:32 BisuDagger wrote:On July 23 2015 10:16 LRM)TechnicS wrote:On July 23 2015 09:37 BisuDagger wrote:On July 23 2015 09:31 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
BisuDagger, I am happy to hear about the wedding and feel bad about your dad. I really hope all is well with you and your family for as long as possible.
But players can also have issues to spend physical time on. The thing is that for organizers to do this it will take 1 hour a day for a month and everybody and their grandma in Korea will know about the TL Legacy Cup series for the next 3 months, after this not as big absolute amount of time you have a success. Whereas for the players to prepare properly you need them to play actual games/prepare build orders/ study maps/talk strategies with others and in my opinion this will take much more time. Perhaps it was an emotional speech of yours to get players onto organizers side of the argument and to participate and practice. But the content of the speech leaves me with the impression that you want some sort of a trade-off between organizers and players - you are giving the gift of putting time and efforts into organizing it as best as possible and in exchange you want them to prepare as best as possible. In this case, it is strange to me that you ask a broad entity of players to practice hard for a year to get a 60% chance (at best) for something while saying that chatting with and searching for koreans for a month from time to time is beyond the time, energy and resources of the whole entity of organizers? I just want people to be happy and play. That's the only exchange I am asking for That is very nice to hear but imo people don't get happy after playing hard for a year to get a 50% winratio at best (sorry for the rough estimations) not being sure the whole time whether the tournament was being some sort of fair to them. I think I made my point somewhat clear I understand what you are saying. But since we aren't budging as of now, something that hasn't been mentioned is it is not a guarantee that Scan will play in every weekend tournament from here to the end either. There will certainly be some he misses and opportunity to win it all win be even higher. Just some added insight. what about a 1 week or 2 week cooldown for winner?
Why should the winner have a cd? Sounds really bad imo
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people thought the same way about (T)IdrA and we know how that turned out
Idra wasn't even a consistant winner vs top players back then. He wasn't as good as he tries to picture himself.
Scan in the tournament = organizers taking a double standard. I hope he loses to someone and all tl staff gonna be crying for a long long time.
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Haven't seen a single Terran player complain here. Once again it is shown that Terran is the manliest race.
Overmind is panicking that Terran will finally purge them from the throne and foreign zergs arrive in swarms to complain.
Julia, eon, sziky and technics, it's a scary 4 pool attack but so far TLS Admins defend well.
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Scan in TLS tournaments
Guys i just want to say that i love you and PLEASE don't take this seriously, i made it only for the laughs ok? <3
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Croatia9506 Posts
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EPT
