EPTOn July 23 2015 07:17 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
just put one korean imba to win us all ^_^ Fantastic.
just put one korean imba to win us all ^_^ Fantastic.
Last time we put one hungarian imba to win you all and you didn't complain.
TeamLiquid Legacy Cup Series - Page 13
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9530 Posts
Last time we put one hungarian imba to win you all and you didn't complain. | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9530 Posts
Can you seriously, with clear conscience, say that Scan is not part of the foreign BW scene? | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6815 Posts
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On July 23 2015 07:29 2Pacalypse- wrote: Seriously, all of you who are saying we should open it to all koreans or whatever; why is it so hard to understand the rules which were very clearly written. The point of the tournament is to have people who are part of the foreign BW scene playing in it. Can you seriously, with clear conscience, say that Scan is not part of the foreign BW scene? zimp's comment sums it up pretty well in regards to rules On July 21 2015 12:33 zimp wrote: I have just seen this topic now. It's great that there are going to be new tournaments. I must comment on the Scan issue though. The rules say: = "read non-Korean/Chinese" So we must investigate. Is Scan korean? ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Dkjo28W.png) He has korean flag in TLPD. He has a korean name. He was raised in korea. He speaks korean (better than anything else). He knows the korean culture. He has korean genes as far as i know. He knows the korean bw culture. He is in korean clans. He understands korean commentators. He can chat with his korean friends about new builds. Therefore i can conclude, he IS korean. Now there is an additional rule to the rule above: Let me quote Scan here. So he is a korean who is currently living in Korea, therefore, according to your own rules, he should not be allowed to participate. Whenever he moves back to the U.S., his case should be reconsidered based on his participation in the foreign BW scene. However this rule doesn't mention how to decide based on his participation. So all i can do is summarize his participation (or at least what i found on tlnet). Major tournaments 2008 Razer TSL - Scan played but he was banned due to cheating. 2011 AoV iCCup StarLeague - Scan won it. 2011 Reality-Defined.com Winners Tournament - Scan won it. 2013 ICCup Ladder Main Event 1 - Scan won it Defiler tournaments 2011-2012: at least 9x won, 5x second 2014-2015: Scan won all the 5 defiler tourneys that were held recently. Other -Scan won the iccup ladder several times -Scan occasionally posts on TLnet -Scan released some of his replays recently I just wrote down some facts in relation to the 'he is a part of foreign bw scene' please define this as lenghty and as carefully as possible please | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
In order to start bo3/5 without a loss with default score at elimination bracket Scan needs to win extra 1 game first then he needs to proceed to his bo3/5 series. If he fails to win 1st game the opponent will take 1-0 lead. We can call it HANDICAP ROUND. I photoshopped my way: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZodzCz8.jpg) I mean if ro8/semifinals are all bo3 - and if Scan loses a game at HR then his opponent needs to win just a game to eliminate him. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19307 Posts
On July 23 2015 07:20 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: im not best technics supporter but i agree with him,just invite good koreans players and make this tourney interesting,atleast this way you guys arent spiting right in the face of us. Dude. If you think we are spitting in our face just gtfo. A fan donated a ton of money. The TL team steps up and makes tournaments happen. We have been excited for this for months. Then unappreciative people like you just say shit and ruin the fun for everyone else. Please, oh please don't play. I won't cast your games. I won't cheer for you. I want people who want to be grateful and play. I've never been this disappointed with posters here. @Technics, I am unclear what your suggestion was please re explain. Thank you. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6815 Posts
On July 23 2015 07:48 BisuDagger wrote: Dude. If you think we are spitting in our face just gtfo. A fan donated a ton of money. The TL team steps up and makes tournaments happen. We have been excited for this for months. Then unappreciative people like you just say shit and ruin the fun for everyone else. Please, oh please don't play. I won't cast your games. I won't cheer for you. I want people who want to be grateful and play. I've never been this disappointed with posters here. @Technics, I am unclear what your suggestion was please re explain. Thank you. i didnt pass the limit to receive this type of insult ,i want you apology, and i think you deserve a ban. idk really how should answer this type of thing lol..if this was real life atleast and tell me this in my face,you are pathetic... I my self donate for defiler tours and mini tours,casted for the community streamed for them ,i really have no words... | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9530 Posts
On July 23 2015 07:37 LRM)TechnicS wrote: zimp's comment sums it up pretty well in regards to rules Except that zimp ignored the only relevant part to Scan's case. Stratos already refuted it: On July 21 2015 13:46 Stratos wrote: Your lawyering doesn't quite work here, zimp. Besides what was already mentioned, Scan streams on twitch, interacts with viewers in English, brings us behind the scene info and helps us translate stuff. The way I see it, this TLS is built around the idea that it's for the foreign scene and its communities. Korean or Mongolian, Scan is a part of this community, and he's even a contributing member. If Bisu wants to become a part of TL or reps.ru pr psistorm or whatever, then he'd be allowed too. So this is how the league was conceived by the ppl who organize it. You can discuss whether that concept is good or bad forever but lawyering and providing claims about Scan's nationality is a waste of everyone's time. The question you want to be asking in that regard is: Is Scan a TLer? But we all know the answer to that. And he's a great TLer at that. Also, if we actually let the few interested Koreans become a full part of our community, we can gain and learn a lot from them. Basically, the benefits of living in Korean BW environment would be that much closer to us. So it's not like this is a one-way service at all. Scan is a perfect example of that. On July 23 2015 07:37 LRM)TechnicS wrote: in relation to the 'he is a part of foreign bw scene' please define this as lenghty and as carefully as possible please This was also already done in this thread; but seeing how you pick and choose what you want to read, here's one relevant post about it: On July 19 2015 02:45 2Pacalypse- wrote: It's Bo1 until the Ro8 in Legacy Cups, anything can happen  Anyways, this whole discussion is pretty ridiculous and it's only happening because everyone seems to think that Scan has some kind of superpowers and is "too good". If Bisu played in foreign BW events for years, participated in the community, made guides for us and translated things for us, we would allow him to play as well. It just doesn't make sense to do otherwise. To clarify this quoted post, I'll say the strongest argument you can have against Scan's participation is if his being in Korea at the moment, has unfair advantage of participating in the offline Korean events which foreigners are not privy to. If he starts to participate in those, as I said before, we'll revise our rule. Also, it's pretty ridiculous that all of your arguments fall apart as soon as Scan comes back to US next month or whenever. | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On July 23 2015 07:48 BisuDagger wrote: Dude. If you think we are spitting in our face just gtfo. A fan donated a ton of money. The TL team steps up and makes tournaments happen. We have been excited for this for months. Then unappreciative people like you just say shit and ruin the fun for everyone else. Please, oh please don't play. I won't cast your games. I won't cheer for you. I want people who want to be grateful and play. I've never been this disappointed with posters here. @Technics, I am unclear what your suggestion was please re explain. Thank you. If you demand foreigners to take up the challenge and work their ways, consider this challenge for you guys to organize: if you allow a korean, go over fish (preferably with Scan), find chogosu/pro koreans and invite those that have good kor-eu/americas connection and let them play too. You could go and try to negotiate movie, firebathero, sea, nada and some not as known korean chogosus with good connection by telling them the purpose is to support and hopefully revive the foreigner bw scene for a good amount of time. Why give 1 time opportunities to play korean chogosus to winners of 3-4 month long tournaments when you can involve many more and make them pretty available to play to anyone that decides to play in the World BW Brain Cups? I would more than frickin' happilly accept to play not as known korean chogosus with good connection and I will happily accept lag on extra high latency a la bw-in-2003 vs pros/legends. If you accept this challenge I could try to negotiate ChRh to come and join the cups for example. | ||
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fearthequeen
United States788 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19307 Posts
On July 23 2015 07:59 LRM)TechnicS wrote: If you demand foreigners to take up the challenge and work their ways, consider this challenge for you guys to organize: if you allow a korean, go over fish (preferably with Scan), find chogosu/pro koreans and invite those that have good kor-eu/americas connection and let them play too. You could go and try to negotiate movie, firebathero, sea, nada and some not as known korean chogosus with good connection by telling them the purpose is to support and hopefully revive the foreigner bw scene for a good amount of time. Why give 1 time opportunities to play korean chogosus to winners of 3-4 month long tournaments when you can involve many more and make them pretty available to play to anyone that decides to play in the World BW Brain Cups? I would more than frickin' happilly accept to play not as known korean chogosus with good connection and I will happily accept lag on extra high latency a la bw-in-2003 vs pros/legends. If you accept this challenge I could try to negotiate ChRh to come and join the cups for example. I don't have the time or energy to pull that together. To not speak for everyone, but we are certainly busy enough right now and do not have the resources to pull of something that big. I understand what you are asking, but we are working with what's realistic and ultimately what we want. | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
2pac- my arguments do not fall apart when an actual korean goes anywhere after he has lived significant amount of time in Korea and is currently living there. All other things equal if I go to Korea now i will suddenly become an edge case and will be reconsidered separately? This is laughable. | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On July 23 2015 08:05 BisuDagger wrote: I don't have the time or energy to pull that together. To not speak for everyone, but we are certainly busy enough right now and do not have the resources to pull of something that big. I understand what you are asking, but we are working with what's realistic and ultimately what we want. Really? Is it that time and energy consuming? So you say 10 organizers are not having the resources to go over in fish freqently and chat with koreans for like a month to spread the word? Yet you want from 20-30+players to work their ass off for a year to beat scan maybe about 60% of the time? | ||
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DarkNetHunter
1224 Posts
On July 23 2015 08:02 fearthequeen wrote: It's disappointing we as players/viewers of this event can't simply respect the organizers' decisions. Just move on everyone. It's simple, don't watch/participate if you disagree with the rules. If you want a perfect tour with perfect rules, then you can go sponsor and organize it yourself. glhf Cheers to this! | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9530 Posts
On July 23 2015 08:07 LRM)TechnicS wrote: As I am not aware of Scan's so valueable contributions to the foreign BW scene, could you please link me to some of his major contributions: 1. to the community; 2. his guides; 3. his translations. His guide thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-strategy/481389-build-orders-and-strategies-by-scan Translation reviewed by Scan: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/473769-sonic-interview-osl-revived-dream-realized (plus he translates/posts some tidbits and interesting posts from korean scene. you can look through his posts to find some) On July 23 2015 08:07 LRM)TechnicS wrote: 2pac- my arguments do not fall apart when an actual korean goes anywhere after he has lived significant amount of time in Korea and is currently living there. All other things equal if I go to Korea now i will suddenly become an edge case and will be reconsidered separately? This is laughable. To be honest, I don't even know what's your argument (I was addressing those who were arguing that he shouldn't be allowed to play because he's in Korea, or those who wanted us to stick with the old TSL1/2 and TLS1/2/3 rules). Why is that laughable though? We wrote the main rule first (no people from Korea/China), but then had to clarify them so we can allow some of our members who live in Korea, like CaucasianAsian, Scan etc or Koreans who live in US, like yellowsmile (I think) etc. On July 23 2015 08:17 LRM)TechnicS wrote: Really? Is it that time and energy consuming? So you say 10 organizers are not having the resources to go over in fish freqently and chat with koreans for like a month to spread the word? Yet you want from 20-30+players to work their ass off for a year to beat scan maybe about 60% of the time? Why is it so hard to understand that we want a tournament for the foreign BW scene. Scan is a part of the foreign BW scene and has been for years. End of discussion. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19307 Posts
On July 23 2015 08:17 LRM)TechnicS wrote: Really? Is it that time and energy consuming? So you say 10 organizers are not having the resources to go over in fish freqently and chat with koreans for like a month to spread the word? Yet you want from 20-30+players to work their ass off for a year to beat scan maybe about 60% of the time? I'm planning a wedding, have to travel from Florida to Seattle for work trips, travel to see my dad 2 hrs always barely surviving pancreatic cancer, travel 6 hrs to North Carolina to see my mother who is only back for China for one month before leaving another year. I do work full time+ among all this. Yeah life is pretty god damn busy for me. Sorry neither I or any one on staff shoves their life problems on the rest of you to show how busy we are. I don't give a damn if you know how little time I truly have to squeeze in Brood War while keeping it together. Nope. I smile and whistle because amongst all this I'm a truly happy person and feel blessed for the moments I have here. Even these ones where we have the luxury of arguing over the greatest foreign news in two years. | ||
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neteX
Sweden285 Posts
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9530 Posts
On July 23 2015 08:49 neteX wrote: Is the people that was banned from TSL allowed to participate that abused in TSL before? I got 2 friends that got banned and is curious if they can participate? We didn't discuss an official policy on this yet, but we're willing to do so. Can you tell us who they are so we can take a look at their case more closely? | ||
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neteX
Sweden285 Posts
On July 23 2015 08:52 2Pacalypse- wrote: We didn't discuss an official policy on this yet, but we're willing to do so. Can you tell us who they are so we can take a look at their case more closely? Its the same tournament when Scan got banned  It's the exact same case when he got banned.. They are just curious and they don't want to say if they're gonna participate or not. Since they don't know if they are allowed to play.I understand the foreigners in this thread etc, but scan is different from other koreans. Hes been in the foreign scene playing with foreigners a lot for so many years now. | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9530 Posts
On July 23 2015 08:53 neteX wrote: Its the same tournament when Scan got banned It's the exact same case when he got banned.. They are just curious and they don't want to say if they're gonna participate or not. Since they don't know if they are allowed to play.I understand the foreigners in this thread etc, but scan is different from other koreans. Hes been in the foreign scene playing with foreigners a lot for so many years now. If they were banned at the same time, then their penalties are written in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/108352-tsl-tl-punishes-cheaters 12 months have long passed since then ^^. So yes, they would be allowed to participate. | ||
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