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There was a topic about how Movie's twitter was getting bombed by profane comments.. the guy was training so hard and getting further gut punches during his slump. thats hard
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On July 18 2011 07:40 xarthaz wrote:
There was a topic about how Movie's twitter was getting bombed by profane comments.. the guy was training so hard and getting further gut punches during his slump. thats hard
horang2 said Movie is the laziest when it comes to practice. Horang2 mentioned how movie likes to theory craft and strategize.
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On July 18 2011 08:48 Release wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 07:40 xarthaz wrote:
There was a topic about how Movie's twitter was getting bombed by profane comments.. the guy was training so hard and getting further gut punches during his slump. thats hard horang2 said Movie is the laziest when it comes to practice. Horang2 mentioned how movie likes to theory craft and strategize.
That's not necessarily bad when you get results. iirc didn't Flash say in an interview a while ago (meaning, before the wrist problem) that he only plays like 20 games a day and the rest is spent on review/development? I realize that 20 games probably = maybe 6 hours, which isn't exactly "lazy", but it's not the 10 hour practice day we hear a lot about either.
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F yeah Flash winning...TvT.
Who the hell is perspective? Winning ZvZ against Soulkey, pretty obv sniper but god job man!
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On July 18 2011 08:48 Release wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 07:40 xarthaz wrote:
There was a topic about how Movie's twitter was getting bombed by profane comments.. the guy was training so hard and getting further gut punches during his slump. thats hard horang2 said Movie is the laziest when it comes to practice. Horang2 mentioned how movie likes to theory craft and strategize.
I've heard TheMarine in a PL game that Movie is like a chameleon: he adapts very well to just about any opponent and any situation. Also, he's very unpredictable. He might do Sair/Reaver one game, Neo Bisu another game, while pulling some unexpected tricks out of the bag.
In other words, he's very hard to snipe. In Movieworld, he snipes YOU!!!
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so when does R3 start? This monday?
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There's some massive absurdity here. You count CH for Woongjin, but not KT. You count the SKT zergs but don't count Calm or Shine. You count fucking Fantasy despite having the worst slump of his career but don't count Hiya, Kal, or Free. Firebathero has been better than half the players on the list, and Jangbi has been tearing it up hard despite some failures to strong ZvPers. The entire SKT lineup past Bisu is either slumping (fantasy) or snipers (Best, every zerg), which is basically the same with STX and everyone past bogus and shuttle. That you think STX is only the 8th deepest team in proleague is farcical at best.
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Bisutopia19239 Posts
and by.Sun was really close with 17 wins - 18 losses (48.57%) . Winning 8 of his last 10.
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On July 18 2011 09:02 djbhINDI wrote:
F yeah Flash winning...TvT.
Who the hell is perspective? Winning ZvZ against Soulkey, pretty obv sniper but god job man!
His name is perfective aka Roo not perspective .
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On July 18 2011 09:31 TwoToneTerran wrote:There's some massive absurdity here. You count CH for Woongjin, but not KT. You count the SKT zergs but don't count Calm or Shine. You count fucking Fantasy despite having the worst slump of his career but don't count Hiya, Kal, or Free. Firebathero has been better than half the players on the list, and Jangbi has been tearing it up hard despite some failures to strong ZvPers. The entire SKT lineup past Bisu is either slumping (fantasy) or snipers (Best, every zerg), which is basically the same with STX and everyone past bogus and shuttle. That you think STX is only the 8th deepest team in proleague is farcical at best.
Several points here.
1) This list is based on a single set of criteria for all teams. 15+ wins and winning record in the regular season.
2) Yes, the criteria are somewhat arbitrary.
3) However, it is fairly reasonable.
4) If you include 15+ winners with losing records, you add: ACE - ggaemo, firebathero, M18M, Iris; OZ - HiyA, Perfectman; STX - Kal, Calm, by.hero; KT - Action; MBC - HyuN; FOX - Shine; KHAN - great, Jangbi, Reality; WJN - free, Really; CJ - none; SKT - by.Sun. ACE, STX, and KHAN look much better. KT doesn't.
5) I don't think you can count "deep" teams based on a couple months of play - you have to look long-term (even if the short-term picture needs closer evaluation).
6) CH doesn't have 15 wins for KT. Even if you throw him in based on Stars performance, that only adds one more.
7) Why 15 wins? That was the easiest "round number" cutoff that gave good/successful players.
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deep is a perspective on relative success. Despite those people being on the list, some of them are playing terribly.
On another note, just curious when is Day 3 of the Stars/KT series?
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On July 18 2011 09:47 VGhost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 09:31 TwoToneTerran wrote:There's some massive absurdity here. You count CH for Woongjin, but not KT. You count the SKT zergs but don't count Calm or Shine. You count fucking Fantasy despite having the worst slump of his career but don't count Hiya, Kal, or Free. Firebathero has been better than half the players on the list, and Jangbi has been tearing it up hard despite some failures to strong ZvPers. The entire SKT lineup past Bisu is either slumping (fantasy) or snipers (Best, every zerg), which is basically the same with STX and everyone past bogus and shuttle. That you think STX is only the 8th deepest team in proleague is farcical at best. Several points here. 1) This list is based on a single set of criteria for all teams. 15+ wins and winning record in the regular season. 2) Yes, the criteria are somewhat arbitrary. 3) However, it is fairly reasonable. 4) If you include 15+ winners with losing records, you add: ACE - ggaemo, firebathero, M18M, Iris; OZ - HiyA, Perfectman; STX - Kal, Calm, by.hero; KT - Action; MBC - HyuN; FOX - Shine; KHAN - great, Jangbi, Reality; WJN - free, Really; CJ - none; SKT - by.Sun. ACE, STX, and KHAN look much better. KT doesn't. 5) I don't think you can count "deep" teams based on a couple months of play - you have to look long-term (even if the short-term picture needs closer evaluation). 6) CH doesn't have 15 wins for KT. Even if you throw him in based on Stars performance, that only adds one more. 7) Why 15 wins? That was the easiest "round number" cutoff that gave good/successful players.
It's not somewhat arbitrary, it's completely arbitrary. That you think SKTZergs are more valuable to a team or any team's depth than any of the players I mentioned shows just how arbitrarily bad it is. And yes, you can count "deep" teams based on the past couple of months of play. Every SKT fan and their mother would trade s2 for Jangbi right now despite Jangbi having a losing record from earlier rounds of proleague. Proleague's been going on for over half a year now and things have changed rapidly compared to these records. This "depth chart" is confusingly bad. You don't have to attach numbers to everything to make it a coherent and reasonable point.
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Bisutopia19239 Posts
On July 18 2011 09:31 TwoToneTerran wrote:There's some massive absurdity here. You count CH for Woongjin, but not KT. You count the SKT zergs but don't count Calm or Shine. You count fucking Fantasy despite having the worst slump of his career but don't count Hiya, Kal, or Free. Firebathero has been better than half the players on the list, and Jangbi has been tearing it up hard despite some failures to strong ZvPers. The entire SKT lineup past Bisu is either slumping (fantasy) or snipers (Best, every zerg), which is basically the same with STX and everyone past bogus and shuttle. That you think STX is only the 8th deepest team in proleague is farcical at best.
SKT zergs isnt an argument anymore as this season have proven worthy. Fantasy has a great record over the whole season too. Hiya, Kal, and Free did nothing for their teams if you look at the season as a whole. Had Shine played better or his coaches had confidence in playing him the last 2 rounds then he could have had a chance to make that list. Calm, while accumulating 26 wins this season, had 27 losses and a losing record isnt something to be proud of. Firebathero comes in at 50% on this season and he did play well, the only thing I can say is he didnt have a winning record. Jangbi winning a bunch of games recently doesn't mean jack. Most of those were individual league games, but on the season as a whole, did not contribute much for khan at all. I mean honestly, he failed to step up in the playoffs.
Summary: calm down lol, its based on his criteria, which makes more sense then your counter arguments. You're defending players that haven't shown up for their teams. See SKT to understand what it means to be a team.
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On July 18 2011 10:24 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 09:31 TwoToneTerran wrote:There's some massive absurdity here. You count CH for Woongjin, but not KT. You count the SKT zergs but don't count Calm or Shine. You count fucking Fantasy despite having the worst slump of his career but don't count Hiya, Kal, or Free. Firebathero has been better than half the players on the list, and Jangbi has been tearing it up hard despite some failures to strong ZvPers. The entire SKT lineup past Bisu is either slumping (fantasy) or snipers (Best, every zerg), which is basically the same with STX and everyone past bogus and shuttle. That you think STX is only the 8th deepest team in proleague is farcical at best. SKT zergs isnt an argument anymore as this season have proven worthy. Fantasy has a great record over the whole season too. Hiya, Kal, and Free did nothing for their teams if you look at the season as a whole. Had Shine played better or his coaches had confidence in playing him the last 2 rounds then he could have had a chance to make that list. Calm, while accumulating 26 wins this season, had 27 losses and a losing record isnt something to be proud of. Firebathero comes in at 50% on this season and he did play well, the only thing I can say is he didnt have a winning record. Jangbi winning a bunch of games recently doesn't mean jack. Most of those were individual league games, but on the season as a whole, did not contribute much for khan at all. I mean honestly, he failed to step up in the playoffs. Summary: calm down lol, its based on his criteria, which makes more sense then your counter arguments. You're defending players that haven't shown up for their teams. See SKT to understand what it means to be a team.
Everyone here knows Oz is the definition of team 
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On July 18 2011 10:17 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 09:47 VGhost wrote:On July 18 2011 09:31 TwoToneTerran wrote:There's some massive absurdity here. You count CH for Woongjin, but not KT. You count the SKT zergs but don't count Calm or Shine. You count fucking Fantasy despite having the worst slump of his career but don't count Hiya, Kal, or Free. Firebathero has been better than half the players on the list, and Jangbi has been tearing it up hard despite some failures to strong ZvPers. The entire SKT lineup past Bisu is either slumping (fantasy) or snipers (Best, every zerg), which is basically the same with STX and everyone past bogus and shuttle. That you think STX is only the 8th deepest team in proleague is farcical at best. Several points here. 1) This list is based on a single set of criteria for all teams. 15+ wins and winning record in the regular season. 2) Yes, the criteria are somewhat arbitrary. 3) However, it is fairly reasonable. 4) If you include 15+ winners with losing records, you add: ACE - ggaemo, firebathero, M18M, Iris; OZ - HiyA, Perfectman; STX - Kal, Calm, by.hero; KT - Action; MBC - HyuN; FOX - Shine; KHAN - great, Jangbi, Reality; WJN - free, Really; CJ - none; SKT - by.Sun. ACE, STX, and KHAN look much better. KT doesn't. 5) I don't think you can count "deep" teams based on a couple months of play - you have to look long-term (even if the short-term picture needs closer evaluation). 6) CH doesn't have 15 wins for KT. Even if you throw him in based on Stars performance, that only adds one more. 7) Why 15 wins? That was the easiest "round number" cutoff that gave good/successful players. It's not somewhat arbitrary, it's completely arbitrary. That you think SKTZergs are more valuable to a team or any team's depth than any of the players I mentioned shows just how arbitrarily bad it is. And yes, you can count "deep" teams based on the past couple of months of play. Every SKT fan and their mother would trade s2 for Jangbi right now despite Jangbi having a losing record from earlier rounds of proleague. Proleague's been going on for over half a year now and things have changed rapidly compared to these records. This "depth chart" is confusingly bad. You don't have to attach numbers to everything to make it a coherent and reasonable point.
It's not completely arbitrary, it's his choice definition of deep team. If you think that any players you have mentioned have done as much for their teams than the SKTZergs have for SKT this season, then that shows how bad your argument is. And no, you can't count a "deep" team based on a couple months of play, you have to and must count the full season of play. Every SKT fan would trade S2 for Jangbi because Jangbi is awesome, not because of his record, stop making assumptions and being an ass. The chart is pretty decent in summarizing his definition of "deep" and his requirements for being on the list. If you're trying to make a point, please attach some numbers instead of just posting your damn emotions and feelings, use some data!!
Numbers are pretty much the only way to make a coherent and reasonable point. If you're trying to make a point based on emotion and feelings, that's the definition of un-coherent. And no you can't count.
edit: hopefully you see my tone as matching that of twotone's
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On July 18 2011 11:07 beachbeachy wrote:
When is the third set?
Tomorrow 18:00
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On July 18 2011 09:58 dRaW wrote:
deep is a perspective on relative success. Despite those people being on the list, some of them are playing terribly.
On another note, just curious when is Day 3 of the Stars/KT series?
Couldn't agree more.
I think the "deep" conversation is a good one to discuss. I didn't really say anything to be definitive, I just am sharing my thoughts and it's nice to see what other people have to say about it.
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Bisutopia19239 Posts
On July 18 2011 10:17 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 09:47 VGhost wrote:On July 18 2011 09:31 TwoToneTerran wrote:There's some massive absurdity here. You count CH for Woongjin, but not KT. You count the SKT zergs but don't count Calm or Shine. You count fucking Fantasy despite having the worst slump of his career but don't count Hiya, Kal, or Free. Firebathero has been better than half the players on the list, and Jangbi has been tearing it up hard despite some failures to strong ZvPers. The entire SKT lineup past Bisu is either slumping (fantasy) or snipers (Best, every zerg), which is basically the same with STX and everyone past bogus and shuttle. That you think STX is only the 8th deepest team in proleague is farcical at best. Several points here. 1) This list is based on a single set of criteria for all teams. 15+ wins and winning record in the regular season. 2) Yes, the criteria are somewhat arbitrary. 3) However, it is fairly reasonable. 4) If you include 15+ winners with losing records, you add: ACE - ggaemo, firebathero, M18M, Iris; OZ - HiyA, Perfectman; STX - Kal, Calm, by.hero; KT - Action; MBC - HyuN; FOX - Shine; KHAN - great, Jangbi, Reality; WJN - free, Really; CJ - none; SKT - by.Sun. ACE, STX, and KHAN look much better. KT doesn't. 5) I don't think you can count "deep" teams based on a couple months of play - you have to look long-term (even if the short-term picture needs closer evaluation). 6) CH doesn't have 15 wins for KT. Even if you throw him in based on Stars performance, that only adds one more. 7) Why 15 wins? That was the easiest "round number" cutoff that gave good/successful players. It's not somewhat arbitrary, it's completely arbitrary. That you think SKTZergs are more valuable to a team or any team's depth than any of the players I mentioned shows just how arbitrarily bad it is. And yes, you can count "deep" teams based on the past couple of months of play. Every SKT fan and their mother would trade s2 for Jangbi right now despite Jangbi having a losing record from earlier rounds of proleague. Proleague's been going on for over half a year now and things have changed rapidly compared to these records. This "depth chart" is confusingly bad. You don't have to attach numbers to everything to make it a coherent and reasonable point.
Maybe a KT fan would trade for Jangbi, but how dare you speak for skt fans and our mothers.
I'm very proud to have S2 on skt, at least he shows up when he's needed (Again, see Jangbi in the playoffs).
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EPT
Bisu 
Fantasy 
n.Die_soO 
