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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On July 12 2011 09:05 LML wrote: What do you mean? If you are claiming that Game took your money, I highly doubt that. Well, I don't have it, and now Game is banned from TL and is unreachable. I'm very, very skittish when my money is involved, and if he's just busy working on the tournament then oops but I don't know what the hell is going on anymore. | ||
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Magus
Canada450 Posts
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
Basically, from the moment Game got banned from ICCUP I've had absolutely 0 idea what the hell was going on with this tournament I invested a decent chunk of change into, and I've been intensely stressed by this whole experience. which is the reason I started getting cold feet. I'm pretty sure I'm done with tournaments after this, though, in BW or in SC2. This has been a disaster  | ||
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LRM)nOoNe
United States231 Posts
"From: Ribbon [ 2206 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Ribbon Classic Date: 7/12/11 08:26 I'm assuming, since you've also been banned from TL, that the tournament isn't happening. I would please like my money back." Notice 8:26, and he posted in the TL thread at 8:28. First off, I'm not banned from teamliquid - it's a tempban that expires on the 17th. Secondly, I haven't gotten around to "I will fix the OP within the week on what server, time and date, and after I re-invite the players. Sorry for the inconvenience players and viewers alike." because in my retirement thread (that he acknowledged) I said that I am swamped with classes right now. Third off, I had no intention of touching the tournament again until July 16th~19th. So boggled and flustered at the same time. If Ribbon thinks after hosting $3500+ of sponsorships from private and company sponsors that I would rob him for 80 bucks he's childish. Not to mention, with re-vamping the entire tournament, it probably wouldn't happen until near the end of the month (do not want to intervene with my friends tournament or the tournament of a sponsor I deal with often aka Eywa and TwitchTv). Best part? He has my Skype. Glad that instead of messaging me on Skype to say hey I don't want to do the tournament anymore or ask for a status update about the tournament, he went straight for the defamation of character route. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
Anyway, I edited the message AND publicly retracted it pretty quickly, even replacing it with a message that I'm a moron, before anyone called me on it, because I realized I was being stupid. I apologize. Me sending you that PM was my first indication that you were banned, and I freaked out because that's apparently all I'm capable of doing. That was a very serious accusation and I made it very lightly and unfairly. Now I've gone and caused all the drama I was trying to avoid because I'm a fucking moron. Everything I've done in this tournament, from and including it's conception, has been a rash decision made in the heat of an emotion. I'm pretty sure this bridge was long burnt, though. | ||
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JoeKim
United States608 Posts
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supernovamaniac
United States3047 Posts
On July 12 2011 13:21 JoeKim wrote: ISLAND TIMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Oh god not again... | ||
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puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
You... in your heat of emotion. You spaz... your emotional explosions are no excuse! Pulling out of such a glorious tournament at the hint of turbulence... blighting foreign BW's primary organizer... and wiping ur 60 apm ass on the forums time and time again! Inserting a hellion comparison into every thread made about vultures! Fungal growthing SC2 into every Broodwar thread! Finally you provide the community with the funds to run a small (but honest) tourney. Under the intense and overwhelming gaze of "BW elitists" u surrender your hard earned funds. Yet the second things begin to look the slightest bit shaky (Game irrelevantly getting banned from Iccup) you attempt to pull out! Well here is a metaphor you should understand! Whence one spawns larva! One has already committed to building units with them! Or else one is a fool! Please Ribbon. As much as I distaste ur participation and derailing of the majority of BW related threads on teamliquid... do not be a coward! It is only through this tourney that you truly contribute to the scene that you claim to love so much! Do not abandon it... For I... truly believe... It is the future! | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On July 12 2011 15:27 puppykiller wrote: Ribbon... Game didn't steal from you. You stole from Broodwar! (and no not just literally... metaphorically too!) How much money does KeSPA get from the foreign Brood War community? Seeing as all the VODs we watch are on Youtube and it's mostly pirate restreams that we watch, I bet it's not a lot! Believe it or not, we have passion for e-sports. We want it to grow and become mainstream. I talk about Starcraft 2 at work. People think I'm a super-dork, but I found a co-worker that's into it and we have conversations about it. I bought a $40 GSTL ticket. I buy a $20 GSL ticket every month. I paid $25 to NASL, and I subscribe $5/mo to day[9] just because he does awesome things to promote e-sports, like the After-Hours Gaming League. Look at the SC2 tournaments thread. Look how many fucking tournaments there are. Star2 didn't take off because of Blizzard's corporate tentacles. It's because the SC2 community made it take off, with passion I sometimes feel the BW community long since lost. So that was the reasoning behind the tournament. I wanted to bring some of that fire from the SC2 community to the Brood War community. Because I don't think BW has to die. Oddly enough. Game contacted me. I gave him the $25 fee he wanted to help me with this. Who's Game? I don't fucking know. Never heard of him. I do some research, I see he did another tournament. I say cool. I get the Art, I give him his fee. I have this really cool idea for a tournament, but it'd have a big prize pool, so I decide to test the waters with a small one. Day before the tournament, he gets banned from ICCUP for being a douchebag or something. I don't actually know the whole story, and I'm frankly long past caring. I ask Game what to do. Game says do it on ICCUP anyway and dare them to ban us. I don't feel entirely comfortable with that, so he decides to find a plan B. I ask Paladin what to do. Paladin says Game is a dick and I should work with ICCUP. I don't know what to do. I'm naturally inclined to side with ICCUP because I play on their servers in BW and I use their maps in SC2. (I shudder to think what might have happened to SC2 if ICCUP hadn't proven it had potential on good maps). But I've made my Gamey bed, and I decide to lie in it. Problem: Tournament is tomorrow, and we don't have a ChaosLauncher configured for a different one. The tournament has to be delayed. That was not really my choice, it was a technical necessity. Thus, the tournament has to be delayed. Why does it have to be delayed? Game got us banned from ICCUP. So I post that it has to be the delayed. The community responds thusly: On July 03 2011 15:40 puppykiller wrote: I dont see how the "drama" is in anyway related. Do the tourney... pm the ppl who were supposed to play... host in on west/fish/whatever. No issue. If your gonna sponsor a tourney you should actually go through with the tourney rather then pull out for a very vague unclear reason. So, I get miffed, and I sent Game the $85 dollars so that no one can accuse me of pulling out. It's done! I'm committed! Game says he'll post the details. A few days go by, and I don't hear from him again. I try to PM him to see what's up, and it looks like he's banned from TL for some reason! Okay, I admit it, I hyperventilate a little and say some intensely retarded things. Not going to deny that. A guy I know very little about except that the only part of the BW community I have positive feelings for refuses to associate with, who already disrupted the tournament by getting banned and tried to turn it into some form of personal protest, has disappeared off the face of the earth with $105 of my dollars. Do I react reasonably? No. I don't. You... in your heat of emotion. You spaz... your emotional explosions are no excuse! They're not, no. But I walk it back quickly thereafter once I've calmed down a little. Not quickly enough, apparently. Pulling out of such a glorious tournament at the hint of turbulence Finally you provide the community with the funds to run a small (but honest) tourney. Under the intense and overwhelming gaze of "BW elitists" u surrender your hard earned funds. Yet the second things begin to look the slightest bit shaky (Game irrelevantly getting banned from Iccup) you attempt to pull out! See, it only looks "the slightest bit" shaky to you because you don't see the whole picture. 1. I give Game a lot of money based entirely on his reputation. 2. Game gets banned from the server, throwing everything into disarray. 3. I ask ICCUP what do to, they say to tell Game to fuck off. 4. I ask Game what to do, he says this. Original Message From Game: Even if they want to make a fuss about it, they can AND MOST DEFINITELY won't ban 32 of the 50 best players left outside Korea for playing the tournament. You have nothing to worry about, been around this before and will be again. Sincerely, Game 5. I'm uncomfortable with Game using my money to wage a political campaign against ICCUP, with whom I've spent the entirety of my old Brood War career back in 2009, and have fond memories towards. He says that we'll do another server then, but he needs time to get a ChaosLauncher. I delay the tournament to allow for this. 6. The BW community reacts negatively, because that's kind of what it does. 7. To avoid allegations of being a pussy (this is always a great reason to make decisions!) I give Game all the prize money in advance, so that I can't get cold feet. 8. Game takes my money and disappears. I can't reach him. What I did was stupid and wrong, but I hope you can understand how it looked from my point of view. Well here is a metaphor you should understand! Whence one spawns larva! One has already committed to building units with them! Or else one is a fool! At the risk of nitpicking, this actually isn't true. You can "bank" larva, though this is rarely a good idea unless you're a few seconds from scouting something that's vitally important in determining what you make. There's never a good reason not to spawn larva unless you have 19 around a hatchery and that shouldn't ever happen because that's horrific macro even if you're sitting at 200/200 because that's not nearly aggressive enough for Zerg and OMG TANGENT. Please Ribbon. As much as I distaste ur participation and derailing of the majority of BW related threads on teamliquid... do not be a coward! It is only through this tourney that you truly contribute to the scene that you claim to love so much! Do not abandon it... For I... truly believe... It is the future! For some reason, I read the last bit with ellipses as you saying it in a melodramatic William Shatner voice, which completely dispels all my anger because it's so silly and awesome. I'm not asking for my money back (anymore). It's up to Game if this tournament happens; I'm simply not capable of running it without him. But I thought that by paying someone else to do the work for me, that I could do a cast with Sayle and the whole thing would be stupid and ridiculous and a lot of fun. And it...wasn't. Was Game got in trouble with ICCUP, the whole tournament was just a pawn in their power struggle. And I increasingly felt that the tournament wasn't something I wanted to do, because it had been ruined, it was just something I [i[had[/i] to do or else I'd lose face. But a hundred dollars is a lot of dollars, and my main takeaway from the Game/ICCUP debacle was "Wow, I'm glad the SC2 community doesn't have this kind of bullshit". My big idea, the one I was excited about, was to be called "The Ribbon Fusion". Or just the "Fusion" or something. I was going to have an SC2 tournament, and I was going to have a BW tournament, on the same stream with Sayle and I casting both (alternating smart guy/play-by-play guy depending on game). And the big idea was that I'd have an LRM( guy make ports of SC2 maps to BW, so that both tournaments would use the "same" map pool (something like Python, Tal'Darim Altar, Match Point, Terminus SE, Heartbreak Ridge and Crevasse. And maybe Crossfire/Sin Beaks of Beakdu as a joke because it's actually the same map) . THAT was the big idea I was excited about. It was to try and patch the very very poor relationship between the BW and SC2 communities just a little. This tournament was a test of what it was like to run one, so I could go into the Fusion with both eyes open before I committed $250 to it. I was never actually interested in the Classic itself. The Brood War I watched was when people were going "This Flash guy is pretty good. I wonder if he's better than Jaedong? One of those two people is going to be a Bonjwa", and ended around the time Dreamliner was in the map pool (imba or not, that was a cool map. It had a plane!). That's the BW I loved. I'm only vaguely aware of Yellow and Boxer will always be a mediocre Star2 player in my heart, even as my mind appreciates all he's done for e-sports. I picked the concept for this tournament because Ragnarok kind of looks like one of the shittier Blizzard star2 maps, which would make it a good lead-in to a tournament on the good GSL maps. That the map pool was from Yellow's first silver medal and it was announced right after Yellow retired just kind of happened. I'm still funding this tournament unless Game refuses (I wouldn't blame him). And then I think I'm done with Brood War. The magic's not there anymore. The community is different and I think I preferred the old one. Progames are kind of pointless (Spoiler alert: Flash wins!). The Fusion is obviously not going to happen, because I was going to use ICCUP maps as the BW maps in SC2, and that bridge went and got firebombed out from under me. The tournament I was really excited about doing was rendered impossible by the actions of Game, which is kind of why I'm unfairly mad at him lately. I'm a whiny bitch, you see. It's true, I know. But I made a promise, and I guess I have to keep it. Game has the prize money, and I don't want it back. If he spends it on the Classic, I hope you guys at least enjoy it. If he uses it to fund some other tournament, it's honestly all the same to me. If you buys a hooker with it, I think he's earned it after putting up with me. I think that this thread should be closed. When Game gets unbanned, he can do a new tournament on these maps (Called the Fuck ICCUP Classic or something) in a new thread without all this stupid bullshit in it. I probably won't even know. I know that most of the community aren't asshats. I've received some supportive PMs, which I appreciate. This was kind of a crappy situation for everyone involved, and it wasn't fair of me to disappoint the community that was really looking forward to this tournament. I apologize to Game for accusing him, however briefly, of being a scoundrel. I apologize to all the people who wanted to see this tournament and were disappointed that backstage shit nearly ruined it. I guess I'm glad I tried something new, but I'm clearly not emotionally cut out for this.  And most of all, I apologize to the mods, because holy christ what a mess I've made of this forum. Ugh. Even this post reads like a whiny "I'm quitting you gaiz FOREVER" post, even though I'm literally going to be three inches away in the SC2 forums and probably lurking in the Nada's Body thread because Nada's abs are the constant that unites us all. And then I'll be back in like an hour because JESUS DICK I'M SO BIPOLAR. Thanks for all of you for putting up with me as long as you did. | ||
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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CaStrO
Peru136 Posts
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fazek42
Hungary438 Posts
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
Everyone appreciates the vision behind this tournament, and everyone really appreciates that you're running it on your own dime. That's dedication to the community. I'm just a TLer who's been following this thread, and to me it looks like a misunderstanding. Apparently Game is dealing with some stuff, but he's not trying to cheat you. Exchange emails with him, fix a date for when planning/action can continue, and resume when both of you are able. Don't let a great idea be ruined. You both want to make it happen, don't you? Game has the responsibility to follow through: he has your money. If he neither follows through nor refunds you, well, THEN he's a jerk. But it looks to me like he has every intention of delivering, and just needs a few days. I'm asking you not to give up on your project, because you obviously want it to happen. And so do a lot of people on this site, including me. Once the logistics are worked out I think this could be a simply amazing tournament. It's 99% there. So please, don't give up, and as a Battlecruiser would say, Make it happen! | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On July 13 2011 08:12 sicklucker wrote: if ribbons wanks out ill give 115 or whatever i won 20k this weekend no biggy But I didn't, so you don't have to. Please read the thread. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
Its unfortunate you didn't speak to ICCUP first, that sucks, but hey I would have done the same thing (except pay the money up-front -_-", lol). There's been so many smaller tournaments on ICCUP, its hard to believe how this happened. Hell I'm pretty sure the BW AUS Inter-State tournaments were held on ICCUP. However its just like starting out with Zerg in SC2, just because it feels like the whole world is working against you, don't give up! On a side note I am also planning on sponsoring an SC2BW tournament, let me know if you are interested. On July 13 2011 08:12 sicklucker wrote: if ribbons wanks out ill give 115 or whatever i won 20k this weekend no biggy Ribbon has already paid the money though, but thanks. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On July 13 2011 09:25 sluggaslamoo wrote: On a side note I am also planning on sponsoring an SC2BW tournament, let me know if you are interested. PM me. I'm intrigued, but I probably will have to sleep on it, because I've been making a lot of bad decisions by acting quickly. | ||
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LML
Germany1771 Posts
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
On July 13 2011 23:00 LML wrote: what is SC2BW? Did you mean SC2 or SCBW now? >_>' If BW, that sounds cool SC2BW is a mod of the sc2 engine to play brood war | ||
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