EPT
[MSL] Grand Final - Page 186
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Zhul
Czech Republic430 Posts
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
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Plissken_2097
Spain628 Posts
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dukethegold
Canada5645 Posts
On June 14 2011 09:40 Golondrin wrote: Thx for the vods. This It's turning me insane, it's just me or the game seems like way faster than should it be? It's just Flash. -__________- And Zero too. He is too easily affected by mental state and momentum. Flash's build in game 1 was unexpected for him and after that he played subpar. There is a reason why Zero is one of the least clutch ace players. | ||
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bluetrolls
United States139 Posts
3-0 the #1 and #3 zergs to crown a 9 win streak is bound to have some effect on ELO. | ||
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
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primebeef
United States140 Posts
Seems zero is better vs mech play than against bio, but he didn't expect flash to go mech zero and neo g easily beats fantasy because they know that he will be going mech almost 100% of the time | ||
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DarkMatter_
Canada1774 Posts
Also, it seems like Zero learned nothing from Jaedong's losses against Flash. When Flash 14CCs, you can expect some kind of powerful timing attack. Zero was already being greedy enough by taking that quick 3rd, but also taking a quick 4th is just asking to be punished. I really wish that one of these days, a zerg does a ling allin after going 3 hatch before pool against Flash when he goes 14CC and doesn't do a wallin or build a bunker. In game 2, Flash was just too good. I think even Jaedong might have lost that game. | ||
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Ermac
336 Posts
On June 15 2011 03:01 DarkMatter_ wrote: Zero simply didn't have the mechanics or the game sense to beat Flash. While Flash looked pretty scary in game 1 and especially game 2, I'm absolutely certain that Jaedong would have crushed Flash's valkonic push in game 3 with some excellent mutaling control. Without a 14CC opening, that valk build really isn't all that great. He had a control group of MnM + 2 valks when he pushed out. There's no way that push should work against a control group of mutas, control group of lings, and 6 scourge. Also, it seems like Zero learned nothing from Jaedong's losses against Flash. When Flash 14CCs, you can expect some kind of powerful timing attack. Zero was already being greedy enough by taking that quick 3rd, but also taking a quick 4th is just asking to be punished. I really wish that one of these days, a zerg does a ling allin after going 3 hatch before pool against Flash when he goes 14CC and doesn't do a wallin or build a bunker. In game 2, Flash was just too good. I think even Jaedong might have lost that game. In case you haven't noticed, Jaedong got kicked out of the MSL by ZerO and is currently on the worst losing streak in his career. Furthermore Flash plays according to his opponents' play style and he's the undisputed king of Bo5s and mind games. I think it's safe to say that he would have played differently vs. Jaedong. It's not fair towards ZerO to assume that Jaedong would have done any better in that series let alone have won it. 'Would have' and 'Could have' have never won a star league afaik. | ||
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Piste
6184 Posts
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On June 14 2011 13:25 dukethegold wrote: It's just Flash. -__________- And Zero too. He is too easily affected by mental state and momentum. Flash's build in game 1 was unexpected for him and after that he played subpar. There is a reason why Zero is one of the least clutch ace players. don't make excuses for zero "mental state" and "momentum." Flash probably just practiced harder, and prepared more thoroughly. He outplayed zero. On June 15 2011 04:10 Ermac wrote: In case you haven't noticed, Jaedong got kicked out of the MSL by ZerO and is currently on the worst losing streak in his career. Furthermore Flash plays according to his opponents' play style and he's the undisputed king of Bo5s and mind games. I think it's safe to say that he would have played differently vs. Jaedong. It's not fair towards ZerO to assume that Jaedong would have done any better in that series let alone have won it. 'Would have' and 'Could have' have never won a star league afaik. You know, everyone used to say that zero could've done better etc. if he didn't have to play a ZvZ. Why doesn't Jaedong get the same type of credit? He did beat Flash in the group of death after all. + Show Spoiler + Ofc, Flash probably would've just as easily 3-0d jaedong. | ||
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On June 15 2011 05:19 Shiladie wrote: definitely nothing surprising from those games, zero got entirely outplayed. As much as I like zero, he'd be lucky to take a game in 20 off of flash right now. I would have MUCH rather seen a jaedong vs flash face off again. Me to, honestly if Jaedong keeps playing like he is that may never happen except for maybe a proleague game or something  | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On June 15 2011 07:07 Holgerius wrote: I honestly don't think anyone could've put up much of a fight against Flash that day. Well if Flash prepared for TvZ and suddenly Best took zero's place and used protoss, then he probably could have. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On June 15 2011 07:09 Release wrote: Well if Flash prepared for TvZ and suddenly Best took zero's place and used protoss, then he probably could have. Except that's not at all how the Starleagues work; people don't just pop up randomly and take someones place. If Best had been in the final Flash would've had a week to prepare specifically for him, and he would've destroyed him completely. This series against Zero reminded me of how good Flash is at preparation, I had almost forgotten. I still think Zero could've been a serious pain in the ass for him in completely straight up standard games, so that simply wasn't gonna happen; Flash made sure the games unfolded in a different way more to his liking. Kid is so smart. Best wouldn't have stood a chance vs him in a Bo5. | ||
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DarkMatter_
Canada1774 Posts
On June 15 2011 04:10 Ermac wrote: In case you haven't noticed, Jaedong got kicked out of the MSL by ZerO and is currently on the worst losing streak in his career. Furthermore Flash plays according to his opponents' play style and he's the undisputed king of Bo5s and mind games. I think it's safe to say that he would have played differently vs. Jaedong. It's not fair towards ZerO to assume that Jaedong would have done any better in that series let alone have won it. 'Would have' and 'Could have' have never won a star league afaik. Where did I say that Jaedong would have done better in that series? I was pointing out that Zero is still lacking in many areas compared to Jaedong. Yes, Flash probably would've played differently against Jaedong (i.e. 14CC and 6/8 rax like a shameless motherfucker), but that's besides the point. All I'm saying is that Jaedong's superior mechanics and decision making would have let him succeed where Zero failed. And considering that some people seem to think that Zero has overtaken Jaedong as the best zerg, why shouldn't we talk about this sort of stuff. And yes, it's just speculation, but so what? This forum would be a very boring place if people weren't allowed to speculate. | ||
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xarthaz
1704 Posts
On June 14 2011 09:04 Boblion wrote: Flash is #1 all time. =) Actually, no. His vZ is not #1 of all time, if you consider the baseline of terran ELO against Z, compared to other races. As such, a non biased ranking would have Jaedong as the #1 vs Z, or possibly Bisu. | ||
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DarkMatter_
Canada1774 Posts
On June 15 2011 07:07 Holgerius wrote: I honestly don't think anyone could've put up much of a fight against Flash that day. It always looks that way when a player dominates another player that badly. Imagine if Flash crushed Jaedong in their last game with his fast science vessel push. Everyone would talk about how great he is, but instead Flash got owned before he even had a chance to do anything with his build and ended up being criticized for choosing that unorthodox build. Remember that game against Calm on Benzene where he went for pretty much the same valkonic build that he used against Zero and got completely destroyed by Calm who went for lurkers instead of mutas? Flash reads his opponents really well and his opponents always seem to end up playing exactly the way he expects them to, but there's nothing unstoppable about Flash. When he doesn't win the mindgames, even inferior players like Effort can make him look silly. The only player that has an aura of invincibility at the moment is Bisu and his PvZ. It's pretty much the only matchup that simply looks unbeatable. | ||
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illusiongamer
Mexico377 Posts
Jaedong only need avoiding zerg he will be ok. and for the people who think Zero overtaken Jaedong as the zerg Overmind, yeah is he in a slump but he still are in the semifinals, defeated by two zergs, the worse part is: nobody will take Jaedong throne left soon, the less worse candidate are soulkey. I need the Tyrant return. | ||
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