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On June 17 2011 05:30 purpose wrote:
Can anyone really say that protoss is equally balanced as terran and zerg? 0 titles say it all, 1 apperance in final also. It cant just be that all players who play protoss choke when it matters, thats just impossible.
maybe spending too much time at skin clinics and hair salon(or playing cell phone game). you cant deny it, both of the protoss top players have significant vices, while the top terran and zerg players practice their butts off.
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On June 17 2011 05:30 purpose wrote:
Can anyone really say that protoss is equally balanced as terran and zerg? 0 titles say it all, 1 apperance in final also. It cant just be that all players who play protoss choke when it matters, thats just impossible.
Considering that protoss players do just fine (averaging the same win rates) in team leagues, which use partly the same maps (and the rest change from season to season), this is not a race balance issue. Its a matter of player dominance. Who else besides Flash represents Terrans in the ro8s on a regular basis? maybe fantasy from time to time (but he falls short before finals almost always). Zerg has the most representatives in the ro8s on a regular basis, but they also have many dominant players. Who does protoss have that performs solidly in BoX's? not really anyone these days, but its not because they can't. Bisu does fine in proleague, Stork was a regular in leagues for some time, and aside from those 2 all the rest of the protoss players lack consistency to win leagues.
Its just a matter of needing a player of race _____ to be dependable in BoX's and he will make it deep in leagues. Its not a race balance issue or it would have displayed itself in proleague winning rates.
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given premise of more preparation being done for individual leagues than proleague, and protoss having bigger diminishing returns on preparation than zerg and terran, the protoss good performance in proleague and bad performance in individual league makes sense.
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On June 17 2011 06:00 xarthaz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 05:30 purpose wrote:
Can anyone really say that protoss is equally balanced as terran and zerg? 0 titles say it all, 1 apperance in final also. It cant just be that all players who play protoss choke when it matters, thats just impossible.
maybe spending too much time at skin clinics and hair salon(or playing cell phone game). you cant deny it, both of the protoss top players have significant vices, while the top terran and zerg players practice their butts off.
I think Stork is a bit of a prodigy, but he doesn't have a hard-working mentality. He comes up with new builds quite often, and most of them are subtly revolutionary. He definitely never reached his potential, and his finals vs Fantasy was a supreme example of how Fantasy's better coaching gave him three enormous and almost insurmountable BO advantages in the matches between them.
Bisu isn't as intelligent or cerebral a player. In one way, he's reached the limit of his potential in the sense that the coaching team in SKT is the absolute best and have done most of brainwork for him. In another sense, Bisu hasn't reached his potential because he doesn't seem to practice as much as some other top players like Jaedong or Flash.
Edit: An example of why I think Stork is a more talented player than Bisu is the fact that when Stork plays and beats Flash or Jaedong, they are generally very epic, close and intense matches that seemingly represent a battle of mind and will. When Bisu beats Flash or Jaedong, the games are generally quite short and one-sided - i.e. Bisu usually wins by a BO advantage IMO, probably due to SKT's fantastic coaching.
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On June 17 2011 06:33 tyCe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 06:00 xarthaz wrote:On June 17 2011 05:30 purpose wrote:
Can anyone really say that protoss is equally balanced as terran and zerg? 0 titles say it all, 1 apperance in final also. It cant just be that all players who play protoss choke when it matters, thats just impossible.
maybe spending too much time at skin clinics and hair salon(or playing cell phone game). you cant deny it, both of the protoss top players have significant vices, while the top terran and zerg players practice their butts off. I think Stork is a bit of a prodigy, but he doesn't have a hard-working mentality. He comes up with new builds quite often, and most of them are subtly revolutionary. He definitely never reached his potential, and his finals vs Fantasy was a supreme example of how Fantasy's better coaching gave him three enormous and almost insurmountable BO advantages in the matches between them. Bisu isn't as intelligent or cerebral a player. In one way, he's reached the limit of his potential in the sense that the coaching team in SKT is the absolute best and have done most of brainwork for him. In another sense, Bisu hasn't reached his potential because he doesn't seem to practice as much as some other top players like Jaedong or Flash. Edit: An example of why I think Stork is a more talented player than Bisu is the fact that when Stork plays and beats Flash or Jaedong, they are generally very epic, close and intense matches that seemingly represent a battle of mind and will. When Bisu beats Flash or Jaedong, the games are generally quite short and one-sided - i.e. Bisu usually wins by a BO advantage IMO, probably due to SKT's fantastic coaching.
Stork wins about 60% while playing WoW and watching animes. Back when Stork got on number 1 in PR and bursting out that Eo peak of his, he was practicing like regular progamer. Stork seems to play only for the joy of playing, he comes up with unorthodox 1 base builds against Zerg (he is the only doing that nowadays) and precision cheesy build. If TBLS got stuck on an island for 1 mouth without practicing, Stork would most likely to be the one that keeps his skills the most intact.
Jaedong have the stamina, he can continue to play and play after days and days. His resilience to do something, the willpower is just amazing. He practices like 14 hours + a day when Coach Cho was still there (dunno if he still do). Apparently Jaedong is able to speak english somewhat with that schedule.
Flash plays the perfect mind games. He started with being a cheesy bastard with great timing shown against Bisu in the OSL and to play with Stork's mind by going rushes too but then he would switch up to his to cement the invincible turtle play. Now he is mixing it up that keeps his opponents on their feet. A true successor to Oov's legacy.
Bisu is just I dont know how to say this but his greatest potential is the ability to process information as fast as he can. We can see that Bisu's multitask is perhaps the best we ever got with great precisions and have the ballz to perform crazy harassment, microing and macroing and expanding all at once. There was once an interview with Kingdom that Bisu views his replays while practicing at the same time to save time, now that's just superhuman insane.
Edit: it was kingdom not boxer
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On June 17 2011 07:03 Xiphos wrote:
[...]
There was once an interview with BoxeR that Bisu views his replays while practicing at the same time to save time, now that's just superhuman insane.
No.. wait.. what? U're serious? @.@ Is mah Bisu that awesome? <3
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On June 17 2011 07:47 ffreakk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 07:03 Xiphos wrote:
[...]
There was once an interview with BoxeR that Bisu views his replays while practicing at the same time to save time, now that's just superhuman insane.
No.. wait.. what? U're serious? @.@ Is mah Bisu that awesome? <3
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=117612
"Kingdom : I agree. If we look back Bisu's games almost every build he used was “the safest and the best.” Many people ask “How can someone be so good when they only play standard”. Bisu practices for a very long time. For a while, he defined the phrase “Sleep and Practice” in the SKT house. And to preserve time so he could practice more, he started reviewing over his strategies during the game not outside the game. While most players review over their strategies and build orders after watching VODs or Replays, Bisu did this during his game. Because of his natural talent to multitask everything, his hand movement and screen transitioning speed was so fast. It was jaw-dropping to watch him play."
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On June 17 2011 07:03 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 06:33 tyCe wrote:On June 17 2011 06:00 xarthaz wrote:On June 17 2011 05:30 purpose wrote:
Can anyone really say that protoss is equally balanced as terran and zerg? 0 titles say it all, 1 apperance in final also. It cant just be that all players who play protoss choke when it matters, thats just impossible.
maybe spending too much time at skin clinics and hair salon(or playing cell phone game). you cant deny it, both of the protoss top players have significant vices, while the top terran and zerg players practice their butts off. I think Stork is a bit of a prodigy, but he doesn't have a hard-working mentality. He comes up with new builds quite often, and most of them are subtly revolutionary. He definitely never reached his potential, and his finals vs Fantasy was a supreme example of how Fantasy's better coaching gave him three enormous and almost insurmountable BO advantages in the matches between them. Bisu isn't as intelligent or cerebral a player. In one way, he's reached the limit of his potential in the sense that the coaching team in SKT is the absolute best and have done most of brainwork for him. In another sense, Bisu hasn't reached his potential because he doesn't seem to practice as much as some other top players like Jaedong or Flash. Edit: An example of why I think Stork is a more talented player than Bisu is the fact that when Stork plays and beats Flash or Jaedong, they are generally very epic, close and intense matches that seemingly represent a battle of mind and will. When Bisu beats Flash or Jaedong, the games are generally quite short and one-sided - i.e. Bisu usually wins by a BO advantage IMO, probably due to SKT's fantastic coaching. Stork wins about 60% while playing WoW and watching animes. Back when Stork got on number 1 in PR and bursting out that Eo peak of his, he was practicing like regular progamer. Stork seems to play only for the joy of playing, he comes up with unorthodox 1 base builds against Zerg (he is the only doing that nowadays) and precision cheesy build. If TBLS got stuck on an island for 1 mouth without practicing, Stork would most likely to be the one that keeps his skills the most intact. Jaedong have the stamina, he can continue to play and play after days and days. His resilience to do something, the willpower is just amazing. He practices like 14 hours + a day when Coach Cho was still there (dunno if he still do). Apparently Jaedong is able to speak english somewhat with that schedule. Flash plays the perfect mind games. He started with being a cheesy bastard with great timing shown against Bisu in the OSL and to play with Stork's mind by going rushes too but then he would switch up to his to cement the invincible turtle play. Now he is mixing it up that keeps his opponents on their feet. A true successor to Oov's legacy. Bisu is just I dont know how to say this but his greatest potential is the ability to process information as fast as he can. We can see that Bisu's multitask is perhaps the best we ever got with great precisions and have the ballz to perform crazy harassment, microing and macroing and expanding all at once. There was once an interview with Kingdom that Bisu views his replays while practicing at the same time to save time, now that's just superhuman insane. Edit: it was kingdom not boxer
QFT
WIth Bisu, I think his main problem is his mentality when playing. His multitasking, dedication, mechanics, etc are all top notch, but I think he has a weak mind when playing. I've seen Bisu lose (especially against terran) when his initial plan falls apart or something. If he can fix that mind set of his... man... with his already unstoppable PvZ.... X_X
And out of all of the TBLS, I think Jaedong and Flash have the best mentality. Jaedong, of course, with his LWWW and Flash being... well, Flash, those two are pretty much on top of their mind games, as you pointed out.
Stork... I dunno what to say. If he suddenly got Bisu's or Jaedong's dedication... well, I think we'll have our first protoss bonjwa.
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Well Bisu has won the most titles for a Protoss. But ya, it's hard being a Toss fan in BW considering of all the bad luck we have had so far. Compared to the spoiled Terrans (  )
Its that reason alone why I laugh at SC2 cry babies over the Toss imba argument.
But I digress, if Bisu and Stork retired. Protoss will have like no one to carry on the race as a whole. There is no one I can come up with that can really take the reigns of the race and stand out like TaekBang did. Movie? Maybe. Rain/Sun? Again Maybe. Snow? Who knows. Kal suicides, no point in adding him in there.
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On June 17 2011 10:49 Seraphic wrote:Well Bisu has won the most titles for a Protoss. But ya, it's hard being a Toss fan in BW considering of all the bad luck we have had so far. Compared to the spoiled Terrans ( ) Its that reason alone why I laugh at SC2 cry babies over the Toss imba argument. But I digress, if Bisu and Stork retired. Protoss will have like no one to carry on the race as a whole. There is no one I can come up with that can really take the reigns of the race and stand out like TaekBang did. Movie? Maybe. Rain/Sun? Again Maybe. Snow? Who knows. Kal suicides, no point in adding him in there.
I can definitely see JangBi and BeSt stepping it their pespective mentor retires. Except SKT will become an PvT team and Khan to be a PvZ team. out of all the Protosses from the past 3 years, BeSt have the Stork's PvT timing and resilience of macro and JangBi was the only Protoss that have Bisu's multitask (even Bisu stated on Destination of them going on the same build that he couldn't keep up because JangBi is faster)
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Cry out Toss! There will be a resurge!
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On June 17 2011 09:55 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 07:47 ffreakk wrote:On June 17 2011 07:03 Xiphos wrote:
[...]
There was once an interview with BoxeR that Bisu views his replays while practicing at the same time to save time, now that's just superhuman insane.
No.. wait.. what? U're serious? @.@ Is mah Bisu that awesome? <3 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=117612"Kingdom : I agree. If we look back Bisu's games almost every build he used was “the safest and the best.” Many people ask “How can someone be so good when they only play standard”. Bisu practices for a very long time. For a while, he defined the phrase “Sleep and Practice” in the SKT house. And to preserve time so he could practice more, he started reviewing over his strategies during the game not outside the game. While most players review over their strategies and build orders after watching VODs or Replays, Bisu did this during his game. Because of his natural talent to multitask everything, his hand movement and screen transitioning speed was so fast. It was jaw-dropping to watch him play."
That doesn't say he's watching replays while playing. He's saying Bisu updates and modifies his strategy as he plays instead of post-game through VODs or Replays like other players do.
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Flash is the Miyamoto Musashi of SC.
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On June 17 2011 14:09 jodogohoo wrote:
Flash is the Miyamoto Musashi of SC.
Book of Five OSLs
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EPT
