[SWL] Winner League Finals KT Rolster vs SK Telecom T1 - P…

trexbqs

Malaysia1731 Posts

April 09 2011 13:42 GMT

#4121

On April 09 2011 22:38 bITt.mAN wrote:
OH MY FUCKING GOD HOW THE HELL DID I FORGET TO POST THIS!?!?!

[image loading]

Guys on the left = KT Zergs ^^

s2 got the power from fantasy . this picture is hilarious. canata....

Hyde

Australia14568 Posts

April 09 2011 13:42 GMT

#4122

On April 09 2011 22:40 Piste wrote:

Show nested quote +

the second one looks like canata..

It is Canata I think

Lightwip

United States5497 Posts

April 09 2011 13:42 GMT

#4123

+ Show Spoiler +

s2 < Bloody Ridge > (Z)

Action
+ Show Spoiler [Details] +

s2 had to ppp twice vs Action because of hardware issues, and then there was a regame.

s2 < Fortress SE > (Z)

Crazy-Hydra
s2 < Icarus > (P)

Stats

s2 < Circuit Breaker > Flash
Bisu < Aztec > (T)

Flash
< La Mancha >
< Empire of the Sun >
SKT 4-1 KT

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +

Poll: Recommend Game 1?

No (33)

70%

Yes (14)

30%

47 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Game 1?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No

+ Show Spoiler [Game 2] +

Poll: Recommend Game 2?

No (30)

59%

Yes (21)

41%

51 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Game 2?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No

+ Show Spoiler [Game 3] +

Poll: Recommend Game 3?

Yes (36)

64%

No (20)

36%

56 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Game 3?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No

+ Show Spoiler [Game 4] +

Failed all-in

+ Show Spoiler [Game 5] +

It's Bisu vs Flash!

+ Show Spoiler [Game 6] +

+ Show Spoiler [Game 7] +

Posting this one last time in case people want the recommended games.

Spica

United States5582 Posts

April 09 2011 13:42 GMT

#4124

I demand a gif of Bisu bouncing in glee in his seat

So that we can spam it everywhere.

Zona

40426 Posts

April 09 2011 13:42 GMT

#4125

On April 09 2011 22:34 ghrur wrote:

Show nested quote +

Idk, I feel that the build worked because
A. It's a reverse ramp, Rines can't just shoot from the highground
B. Flash scouted Bisu second, and so wasn't expecting so many lots from a forward-gate
C. No bunker for the hurt marines

I think if Flash scouted bisu first, he could've gone for a bunker rush and caused a gg right there. I mean, we all saw how pretty his rine micro was.

Uh, Bisu's early zealots would have made a bunker rush very difficult to pull off, and a failed bunker rush would've similarly put flash economically behind

kamikami

France1057 Posts

April 09 2011 13:43 GMT

#4126

So, KT fans, it's all fair and square. 21/4 we will again see Bisu vs Flash, but on a Terran favored map. So no need for whining about map imba, next time you guys will have map advantage.

JinDesu

United States3990 Posts

April 09 2011 13:43 GMT

#4127

On April 09 2011 22:42 Spica wrote:
I demand a gif of Bisu bouncing in glee in his seat

So that we can spam it everywhere.

Yeeeesss...... *chant chant chant*

doubleupgradeobbies!

Australia1187 Posts

April 09 2011 13:43 GMT

#4128

Incidently, someone should totally make a gif of bisu being giddy like a girl when he broke that contain :D Awesome moment!

DarkMatter_

Canada1774 Posts

April 09 2011 13:43 GMT

#4129

I hope SKT sticks with s2 instead of just randomly playing a different zerg every match.

Lightwip

United States5497 Posts

April 09 2011 13:43 GMT

#4130

On April 09 2011 22:42 Spica wrote:
I demand a gif of Bisu bouncing in glee in his seat

So that we can spam it everywhere.

As I said before, I'll make it as soon as the VOD is out.

kuroshiroi

3149 Posts

April 09 2011 13:44 GMT

#4131

On April 09 2011 22:39 Murderotica wrote:

Show nested quote +

You clearly haven't played this game enough (hence you not knowing that Zeal micro is intense vs scv/rine and can really put you in the hole, that it slows your tech and thus makes you vulnerable to vultures or counter-pressure, etc.) and you clearly are too biased to give any credit where it's due because Bisu WAS microing and not a-moving. Please pull your head out of you know where.

Indeed. Microing Zealots is Bisu's forte, I doubt he'd even break a sweat while microing 3 at a time while making probes and stuff.

revy

United States1524 Posts

April 09 2011 13:44 GMT

#4132

On April 09 2011 22:38 xarthaz wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 09 2011 22:33 revy wrote:

On April 09 2011 22:23 VGhost wrote:

On April 09 2011 22:20 revy wrote:

On April 09 2011 22:18 TheOnly92 wrote:
Well, KT should learn. SKT sent bisu as their 2nd player

SKT sent Bisu second because that map was 65% PvT, I have a hard time believing they would do that on any other map.

Grats Bisu and SKT, things just worked out in your favor today, monster effort from s2! I have a feeling we'll meet again during the PL finals =).

The thing that made it work though was the lack of a wall-in. I don't remember if T can wall on Aztec, if not... map needs to go because that build > Terran, anybody but Flash would have lost to the zeals.

That, and the fact that Bisu was really good at keeping the vultures at bay.

I didn't mean to degrade Bisu's performance or imply that map imba was the only reason why he won. Bisu played well, had a good build, scouted Flash first, and Flash scouted Bisu last. Flash played well too but the concatenation of these four things just overwhelmed him.

From a purely resource respect the initial zealot harass was not cost effective but it kept Flash penned back while he was comfortable to take and lock up four bases. In this respect it's very similar to the play Bisu used against Flash the last time they played, and for that matter Flash's response was the same as it was then as well. Bisu played an aggressive open which penned Flash back while securing a large number of bases. Instead of shoring up defense and taking a third, Flash responded by adding more Facts and playing a strong 2 base game. In the previous game Bisu's expo's were to separate mains which let Flash cut him in half whereas in this game Bisu only had 2 spots that were connected to defend.

You can't really fault Flash's play there, he knew that his army would be most effective if he put up a contain on those four bases forcing Bisu to run through chokes to break him. Had Flash not put up a contain it's likely that Bisu would have beaten Flash to the 3rd main and could have slowly starved Flash out.

Uhh yes it WAS cost effective early harassment from ressource POV. Flash lost a ton of mining time microing with scvs, losing scvs(remember, each scv is worth its mineral cost AND the amount of mining forgone due to its death) and marines. Thats why his 2 base push was so weak compared to the macro that bisu had up at the time.

His 2 base push was "weak" because it was going up against a 4 base toss! In my opinion Flash very effectively defended that zealot harass losing a minimal amount. The strength of Bisu's build was NOT in how much mining time/SCV/marine kills he got but in how long it kept Flash on the back foot. Recall that Bisu had his expansion up quite delayed as a result of his zealot pressure. Again I feel that from a pure resource perspective the lost mining time from Bisu's much delayed nat + cost of lost units < cost of Flash's lost units + lost mining time. Again I'm not saying it wasn't an effective opening, it very much was, I'm saying that its chief strength was in the amount of time it kept Flash reeling and how this allowed him to establish 4 bases.

_Quasar_

Russian Federation4405 Posts

April 09 2011 13:44 GMT

#4133

I think that's just that the team is KTFlash again. For sure they expected their other 3 players to carry it at least past Bloody Ridge and Aztec, that said, to get at least 2 wins out of 5 maps. But they failed to get even one.

Well played by Bisu, and as you've seen from fantasy's play on this map, it isn't THAT imbalanced.

Rtran10

Canada78 Posts

April 09 2011 13:44 GMT

#4134

Cant really do if statements when it comes to games like these because we do not know whether or not bisu had a plan if flash made a bunker in front.

If this build was planned, he definitely considered the possibility of flash scouting him first like bisu did himself, and would of branched off maybe into a different build.

hauton

Hong Kong743 Posts

April 09 2011 13:44 GMT

#4135

On April 09 2011 22:39 VGhost wrote:

Show nested quote +

I don't think Action's that good, but he's got his points: if he survives to late-game he's amazing, sort of an anti-Kwanro.

If you want to hate on somebody, what about KT's player choices? Action to lead off (against "probably a Protoss" even though it wasn't) is a decent idea - you're not wasting a good player.

But then if you're determined to make your other two CH and Stats - which I would advocate, they're KT's two best non-Flash players - why send Crazy-Hydra on Fortress and Stats on Icarus? Should clearly have been the other way around.

I think the problem was that KT prepped their lineup without really considering the possibility of players not winning their first game.

In all honesty I would pick any of KT's zergs over Action. Perfective shows promise, HoeJJa and Yellow are experienced, Crazy-Hydra is a coinflip. Action is a choke. Guaranteed.

Everyone has analyzed him now - like you said, he's a good lategame zerg. So guess what? Nobody lets him get to lategame. Easy enough to do against a Zerg nowadays, to be brutally honest.

Musou

1375 Posts

April 09 2011 13:44 GMT

#4136

On April 09 2011 22:43 kamikami wrote:
So, KT fans, it's all fair and square. 21/4 we will again see Bisu vs Flash, but on a Terran favored map. So no need for whining about map imba, next time you guys will have map advantage.

I don't think you can fairly say Monte Cristo is terran favored when no games have even been played on it yet. Everyone seems to assume (wrongly) that every map is terran favored when they first come out.

meegrean

Thailand7699 Posts

April 09 2011 13:44 GMT

#4137

On April 09 2011 22:43 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
Incidently, someone should totally make a gif of bisu being giddy like a girl when he broke that contain :D Awesome moment!

yeah, that was so gay lol. but oh well, i guess SKT deserved the win.

Lachrymose

Australia1928 Posts

April 09 2011 13:44 GMT

#4138

On April 09 2011 22:42 Spica wrote:
I demand a gif of Bisu bouncing in glee in his seat

So that we can spam it everywhere.

somebody! hurry! i want it so badly!

Zona

40426 Posts

April 09 2011 13:45 GMT

#4139

On April 09 2011 22:42 Kamille wrote:
ppp

OGN's fault.

Although if it really was on purpose, that SKT figured out a way to screw up the computer's sound output just by plugging in earbuds/keyboard/mouse so much that Kespa refs using another headset also got no sound...
then nobody would ever admit to it, of course.

Bisu-Fan

Russian Federation3329 Posts

April 09 2011 13:45 GMT

#4140

On April 09 2011 22:37 Zona wrote:

Show nested quote +

First of all, did you keep a count of how many marines and scvs Flash lost? It was no small number. You can't measure things just in a "purely resource respect", either, since Bisu was able to get away with 1 gate expo (before core!) which is normally incredibly dangerous vs Terran.

not only that... but flash was pulling scvs left and right to help the fight sacrificing precious mining time... and also flash had to get the early vulture before tank because of the two zealots... if he had skipped the vulture and tried tank, he might have lost even more scvs before that... but then sacrificing the early tank made it hard because dragoon range was killing the bunker so flash's economy was draining even more... all because of the zealots... and you call this not cost effective?

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