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On April 09 2011 22:33 revy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 22:23 VGhost wrote:On April 09 2011 22:20 revy wrote:On April 09 2011 22:18 TheOnly92 wrote:
Well, KT should learn. SKT sent bisu as their 2nd player SKT sent Bisu second because that map was 65% PvT, I have a hard time believing they would do that on any other map. Grats Bisu and SKT, things just worked out in your favor today, monster effort from s2! I have a feeling we'll meet again during the PL finals =). The thing that made it work though was the lack of a wall-in. I don't remember if T can wall on Aztec, if not... map needs to go because that build > Terran, anybody but Flash would have lost to the zeals. That, and the fact that Bisu was really good at keeping the vultures at bay. I didn't mean to degrade Bisu's performance or imply that map imba was the only reason why he won. Bisu played well, had a good build, scouted Flash first, and Flash scouted Bisu last. Flash played well too but the concatenation of these four things just overwhelmed him. From a purely resource respect the initial zealot harass was not cost effective but it kept Flash penned back while he was comfortable to take and lock up four bases. In this respect it's very similar to the play Bisu used against Flash the last time they played, and for that matter Flash's response was the same as it was then as well. Bisu played an aggressive open which penned Flash back while securing a large number of bases. Instead of shoring up defense and taking a third, Flash responded by adding more Facts and playing a strong 2 base game. In the previous game Bisu's expo's were to separate mains which let Flash cut him in half whereas in this game Bisu only had 2 spots that were connected to defend. You can't really fault Flash's play there, he knew that his army would be most effective if he put up a contain on those four bases forcing Bisu to run through chokes to break him. Had Flash not put up a contain it's likely that Bisu would have beaten Flash to the 3rd main and could have slowly starved Flash out. Uhh yes it WAS cost effective early harassment from ressource POV. Flash lost a ton of mining time microing with scvs, losing scvs(remember, each scv is worth its mineral cost AND the amount of mining forgone due to its death) and marines. Thats why his 2 base push was so weak compared to the macro that bisu had up at the time.
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On April 09 2011 22:38 bITt.mAN wrote:OH MY FUCKING GOD HOW THE HELL DID I FORGET TO POST THIS!?!?! ![[image loading]](http://imgnews.naver.com/image/dailyesports/2010/08/01/20100801_e63192a9e3ca1e31a40387fe82fc9ad3.jpg) Guys on the left = KT Zergs ^^
Fantasy giving them superpowers!
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On April 09 2011 22:38 xarthaz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 22:33 revy wrote:On April 09 2011 22:23 VGhost wrote:On April 09 2011 22:20 revy wrote:On April 09 2011 22:18 TheOnly92 wrote:
Well, KT should learn. SKT sent bisu as their 2nd player SKT sent Bisu second because that map was 65% PvT, I have a hard time believing they would do that on any other map. Grats Bisu and SKT, things just worked out in your favor today, monster effort from s2! I have a feeling we'll meet again during the PL finals =). The thing that made it work though was the lack of a wall-in. I don't remember if T can wall on Aztec, if not... map needs to go because that build > Terran, anybody but Flash would have lost to the zeals. That, and the fact that Bisu was really good at keeping the vultures at bay. I didn't mean to degrade Bisu's performance or imply that map imba was the only reason why he won. Bisu played well, had a good build, scouted Flash first, and Flash scouted Bisu last. Flash played well too but the concatenation of these four things just overwhelmed him. From a purely resource respect the initial zealot harass was not cost effective but it kept Flash penned back while he was comfortable to take and lock up four bases. In this respect it's very similar to the play Bisu used against Flash the last time they played, and for that matter Flash's response was the same as it was then as well. Bisu played an aggressive open which penned Flash back while securing a large number of bases. Instead of shoring up defense and taking a third, Flash responded by adding more Facts and playing a strong 2 base game. In the previous game Bisu's expo's were to separate mains which let Flash cut him in half whereas in this game Bisu only had 2 spots that were connected to defend. You can't really fault Flash's play there, he knew that his army would be most effective if he put up a contain on those four bases forcing Bisu to run through chokes to break him. Had Flash not put up a contain it's likely that Bisu would have beaten Flash to the 3rd main and could have slowly starved Flash out. Uhh yes it WAS cost effective early harassment from ressource POV. Flash lost a ton of mining time microing with scvs, losing scvs(remember, each scv is worth its mineral cost AND the amount of mining forgone due to its death) and marines. Thats why his 2 base push was so weak compared to the macro that bisu had up at the time.
Well, his 2 base push was facing a 4 base defense.
But yes, the lost scvs and the amount dumped into marines just to defend meant that Flash couldn't push out until it was too late.
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Lol I can't believe Terran, the most imba race in BW, is actually whining lol.
It's just too sweet.
Bisu is a shining angel...
Far above the Bonjwas...
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On April 09 2011 22:28 gongryong wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 22:27 aupstar wrote:On April 09 2011 22:24 shucklesors wrote:On April 09 2011 22:21 iMp.will. wrote:
First Jaedong and than Flash!
bisuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu This is what's gonna happen: Flash is going to brutally beat the shit out of Bisu during MSL, then Jaedong will start his game against sea and immediately GG, then beating the shit out of Bisu in the loser's, then beating Sea in the final match. ahahaha The map was 65% PvT. It's a really hard map for terran to turtle. The 3rd base is so open, it's very hard to defend. Gotta hand it to bisu though, he did play well. what gotta hand it to bisu u talking about! BISU raped flash there!!! LOL kt fans... LOL
It's more like s2 set up this tight spot for KT.
If KT had won even 1 game, Flash wouldn't have had to come out on this imba map and would have had a much better time with the rest of the maps which are close to 50/50 for PvT.
In conclusion, it was more S2 than Bisu that handed SKT the win.
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On April 09 2011 22:35 hauton wrote:Action ruined everything. Seriously the guy is a liability, plain and simple. I hate seeing him play because it's always a loss unless the game doesn't matter or it's against ACE or other weaklings. Guy hasn't had a 3 or more game winstreak since Nov that hasn't been padded with wins over ACE players. I wouldn't trust him to lead off a friendly Special Event, much less the biggest match of the year. God it's hard to overstate how much I hate that guy. Get rid of him ASAP PLEASE.
I don't think Action's that good, but he's got his points: if he survives to late-game he's amazing, sort of an anti-Kwanro.
If you want to hate on somebody, what about KT's player choices? Action to lead off (against "probably a Protoss" even though it wasn't) is a decent idea - you're not wasting a good player.
But then if you're determined to make your other two CH and Stats - which I would advocate, they're KT's two best non-Flash players - why send Crazy-Hydra on Fortress and Stats on Icarus? Should clearly have been the other way around.
I think the problem was that KT prepped their lineup without really considering the possibility of players not winning their first game.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On April 09 2011 22:27 Musou wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 22:25 kamikami wrote:
it just showed early game that Flash couldn't catch up with Bisu multitask (attack on many places at the same time). He never got attacked like that before just because he's Terran (precisely a turtle Terran) and there was no way to use that kind of multi-harassment against him. Now Bisu just found a way to make it work and win lol. You mean the fact that zealots are by far the strongest early game units, so if he just gets 2 to attack separate places he can basically a-move while Flash actually has to micro marines to avoid them and SCVs to block?
You clearly haven't played this game enough (hence you not knowing that Zeal micro is intense vs scv/rine and can really put you in the hole, that it slows your tech and thus makes you vulnerable to vultures or counter-pressure, etc.) and you clearly are too biased to give any credit where it's due because Bisu WAS microing and not a-moving. Please pull your head out of you know where.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On April 09 2011 22:37 Necosarius wrote:
What is up with Oovs hair ? o.o
Stress. Maybe dye.
On April 09 2011 22:37 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 22:33 revy wrote:
From a purely resource respect the initial zealot harass was not cost effective but it kept Flash penned back while he was comfortable to take and lock up four bases.
First of all, did you keep a count of how many marines and scvs Flash lost? It was no small number. You can't measure things just in a "purely resource respect", either, since Bisu was able to get away with 1 gate expo (before core!) which is normally incredibly dangerous vs Terran.
I tried keeping count. While I didn't manage to keep track of all of them, all the zealots I did managed to trade themselves for 100+ mineral by killing combinations of marines and SCVs (or at least, kill one and set another zealot up for 3 kills).
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good month for bisu so far 2 games one against JD another against FLash, both end up winning. Hopefully he could do the same in the MSL he will need to do it in group D
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On April 09 2011 22:38 bITt.mAN wrote:OH MY FUCKING GOD HOW THE HELL DID I FORGET TO POST THIS!?!?! Guys on the left = KT Zergs ^^
the second one looks like canata..
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On April 09 2011 22:32 hauton wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 22:28 shadymmj wrote:
Well stop saying it was a good build, I don't think it was even on this map, if flash scouted bisu at the same time bisu scouted him, do you honestly think it would have worked? Well Flash goes Rax-CC blind nowadays I don't think scouting the build would've made a major difference aside from him maybe putting down a bunker earlier - even then he's completely exposed to runbys given Aztec. Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 22:29 ArvickHero wrote:On April 09 2011 22:27 Daft Commander wrote:
The main reason why Bisu broke Flash's contain was that he managed to snipe the science vessel and he got the arbiter not much later after that. not like the arbiter really did anything other than take up supply that game lol Yeah I equally doubt the Vessel would've done anything - I don't think it had enough energy for EMP anyways. As for cloaking, Flash had tons of scans to spare.
Don't downplay the effect a bunker at the front would have had instead of that supply depot. The reason this was so effective was Bisu could runby and forced heavy micro from Flash in his main while simultaneously the fresh incoming zealot harassed the front. It's way more micro intensive to defend zealots with marine/scv than it is to attack with zealots. Had the first supply depot at the front been a bunker Flash would have cost effectively secured his front. Sure, Bisu could runby but Flash only needed to concentrate on those zealots as opposed to two groups of zealots.
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On April 09 2011 22:30 Musou wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 22:29 Reyis wrote:On April 09 2011 22:28 shadymmj wrote:
Well stop saying it was a good build, I don't think it was even on this map, if flash scouted bisu at the same time bisu scouted him, do you honestly think it would have worked? yes it would. if you are thinking otherwise then i recommend you to play the game itself and figure out the basics. oh btw.. KIM TAEK YONG FIGHTING!!! As someone else said earlier, had Flash scouted correctly right away as Bisu did, he would have thrown down a bunker instead of a supply depot, and held off the zealots much more easily with less micro.
where exactly would he place the bunker to prevent zealots from entering his main?
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Bisu got lucky with position, scouting, blocking that vulture with that goon on the ramp, etc.
Then factor in the terrible map and you have a pretty reason why Bisu won.
That said, he won. So that justifies it. No amount of whining takes away from what Bisu did: execute a prepared build that managed to snipe a very dangerous Flash.
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5930 Posts
On April 09 2011 22:39 kamikami wrote:
Lol I can't believe Terran, the most imba race in BW, is actually whining lol.
It's just too sweet.
Bisu is a shining angel...
Far above the Bonjwas...
Do you have anything else besides this gimmick?
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10387 Posts
[QUOTE]On April 09 2011 22:37 J1.au wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 09 2011 22:35 Dante08 wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 09 2011 22:33 Reyis wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 09 2011 22:30 iMp.will. wrote:
Map..postitions..zealots unbalanced Lol. Bisu just raped Flash. WAKE UP~[/QUOTE]
I would really love to see them play in the exact same position again. It would have a diferent result IMO[/QUOTE]
I doubt that. It would take a miracle for Flash to overcome the map and win.[/QUOTE]
seemed like to me Flash had a good idea tho, go for a 5 fact timing and contain the Protoss in that area while taking the rest of the map. He seemed to have not really accounted for Bisu being able to get through that tiny ramp though, and also the fact that Flash's timing push came a lot later than it normally would've
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Hopefully s2 shapes up for the rest of the Proleague season! So happy SKT took their first WL, but Bisu better start practicing for MSL.
And no carriers, please. 
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lol all you guys complaining about map balance etc etc
i cant wait for the hordes of mods with banhammers to come
being an skt fan, today was truly an awesome awesome day
great victory, great games
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s2 deserved that MVP, without his win against JD I'm not sure if SKT would have been in the finals?
Bit of a disappointment with that scoreline but hey well played SKT.
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On April 09 2011 22:39 kamikami wrote:
Lol I can't believe Terran, the most imba race in BW, is actually whining lol.
It's just too sweet.
Bisu is a shining angel...
Far above the Bonjwas...
ITS a good day!!!
LOL
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ppp
User was warned for this post
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EPT
