I think Fantasy is playing well enough at this point to take the first game off of Soulkey in a tough battle, avenging his earlier loss to him in the proleague this season. Leta right now is playing amazing, currently riding a 10 game winning streak and facing his two best matchups, vT and vZ, I think he'll take down great and then Fantasy in the Winner's match. The losers matchup I probably shouldn't even bother predicting, it's ZvZ and just beyond that I manage to flop every ZvZ pick. I expect the Final to be a rematch of Set 1, with another good game and Fantasy coming out on top.
I think Fantasy is playing well enough at this point to take the first game off of Soulkey in a tough battle, avenging his earlier loss to him in the proleague this season. Leta right now is playing amazing, currently riding a 10 game winning streak and facing his two best matchups, vT and vZ, I think he'll take down great and then Fantasy in the Winner's match. The losers matchup I probably shouldn't even bother predicting, it's ZvZ and just beyond that I manage to flop every ZvZ pick. I expect the Final to be a rematch of Set 1, with another good game and Fantasy coming out on top. Leta advances 2-0 and Fantasy 2-1.
id like to point out Leta 5-0 vs great, and hes on a 10 game streak! Fantasy isnt doing so well atm and lost TvTs to Turn and Xellos. Soulkey is the middleman of this group, 2-0 vs Fanta, 0-2 vs Leta and 1-1 vs great. Unless Leta is struck with the PL bonjwa curse, i predict he will make out of this group ezpz also cant believe great and Fanta never played a game together o_o
ultra den started guardians morphing marines taking out the eggs to one of soulkey's expos but they're only halfway there to making a path and the guardians are out and consume is done
drop taking out fantasy's newest expo at 6 but meanwhile 7 ultras and a defiler are killing his nat fantasy dropping soulkey's main with the same two dropships but gets shut down by scourge and guardians
Pretty typical. Fantasy loses like 90% of the time if he plays passively and just kinda sits there. Somehow his macro/decision making just falls apart when he tries to be Flash. He needs to get out there and make something happen to get in his groove
On December 25 2010 17:26 Psycho_Gemni wrote: Soulkey played against the fucking computer that game. Well, at least Fantasy attacked like he was the Blizzard AI.
LOL, what was that attack to break like 100000 sunkens, omg, I felt like fanta didn't want to play at all
On December 25 2010 17:26 shadesofkarma wrote: that build was terrible fanta
I think the build was fine for the most part. He took no damage from quick muta and was definitly ahead. The problem is that he put on no pressure and just let SK take two more bases and get every hive tech in the book while he just sat around his main base
On December 25 2010 17:27 Goragoth wrote: I love crazy zerg! So well executed. Beautiful game by SK.
I don't see how that was crazy zerg... SK had no lings for the majority of the game and +1 carapace was not early enough for crazy zerg...
I think the build was fine for the most part. He took no damage from quick muta and was definitly ahead. The problem is that he put on no pressure and just let SK take two more bases and get every hive tech in the book while he just sat around his main base
He wasn't that much ahead after 2 hat muta because expo was so slow. He did not do anything with is fast rax. He could have been much better off FEing.
On December 25 2010 17:26 Lightwip wrote: ...I should stop trying to understand Fantasy's play.
I know what you mean. I'm sitting there watching and thinking, okay, SK is macroing up and attempting to tech up quickly. This will leave him vulnerable to losing one of his expos. So what does Fantasy do? Attack the base with a bizillion sunkens and guardians ofc...What?
On December 25 2010 17:30 KimchiFriedRice wrote: Aww fanta got manhandled by SK... Lets see if Leta can show us a better tvz haaha
Leta should stomp Great. Great is a decent player, but he gets his win by stomping on the Canata's and Perfectmans of this world. I can't remember the last time he beat a good TvZ'er
On December 25 2010 17:30 KimchiFriedRice wrote: Aww fanta got manhandled by SK... Lets see if Leta can show us a better tvz haaha
Leta should stomp Great. Great is a decent player, but he gets his win by stomping on the Canata's and Perfectmans of this world. I can't remember the last time he beat a good TvZ'er
On December 25 2010 17:26 Lightwip wrote: ...I should stop trying to understand Fantasy's play.
I know what you mean. I'm sitting there watching and thinking, okay, SK is macroing up and attempting to tech up quickly. This will leave him vulnerable to losing one of his expos. So what does Fantasy do? Attack the base with a bizillion sunkens and guardians ofc...What?
Ye, with the double port, he could just make 2 dropships and take down the 3d base. Or even mass elevator and take down the main or something
On December 25 2010 17:30 KimchiFriedRice wrote: Aww fanta got manhandled by SK... Lets see if Leta can show us a better tvz haaha
Leta should stomp Great. Great is a decent player, but he gets his win by stomping on the Canata's and Perfectmans of this world. I can't remember the last time he beat a good TvZ'er
I think he took a game off Sea on Zergliner.
Ye, but that doesn't mean much. He is also 0-3 with Leta, so I expect a rape of epic proportions. So then it's Fanta vs Great in losers, which should be ok for Fantasy. Then probably a Fanta/SK rematch in the Finals.
I don't see how that was crazy zerg... SK had no lings for the majority of the game and +1 carapace was not early enough for crazy zerg...
Isn't crazy zerg just zerg skipping lurkers?
Yes, crazy zerg is skipping lurkers, but it is also about having lots of +1 carapace lings with mutas and just use pure muta w/ a large amount of +1 lings to gain map control. SK did not have lings until late game and he did not have map control during the midgame.
The map control lets you get a easy 3rd and it usually transitions into late game ultra defiler ling, however on this map it is easy to get safe expos so SK did not need lings. Therefore, it wasn't crazy zerg because fast +1 carapace speedlings are an important part for a build to be called crazy zerg.
I don't see how that was crazy zerg... SK had no lings for the majority of the game and +1 carapace was not early enough for crazy zerg...
Isn't crazy zerg just zerg skipping lurkers?
Yes, crazy zerg is skipping lurkers, but it is also about having lots of +1 carapace lings with mutas and just use pure muta w/ a large amount of +1 lings to gain map control. SK did not have lings until late game and he did not have map control during the midgame.
crazy zerg is outdated anyways, we'll never see it used in a high level game ever again lol
On December 25 2010 17:26 Psycho_Gemni wrote: Soulkey played against the fucking computer that game. Well, at least Fantasy attacked like he was the Blizzard AI.
LOL, what was that attack to break like 100000 sunkens, omg, I felt like fanta didn't want to play at all
Are you questioning Fantasy's decision making? He scanned the natural, saw gazillion sunkens and guardians. Looked at his group of mmfs almost all plagued, and decided that sunken-bust was obviously the best choice.
On December 25 2010 17:27 Zona wrote: fantasy disappointed in the waiting room
damnit...what happened to your game sense? Did you ever have good game sense at all?
Or did meticulous preparation substitute for it when times were good?
Lol, a bit harsh don't you think?
Although it was a really fucking awfull game by Fantasy
Even when fantasy was at his peak - the mark of his greatness was preparedness, not gamesense. (Well, and his vulture micro) It felt like Fantasy had prepared for the several ways in which the game would likely proceed, and had a solid plan for each of those possible outcomes. But when things head to really uncharted territory, Fantasy's play becomes hard to explain, or endorse.
Oov's infamous "head in hands" moment is just another among the many examples of Fantasy's bad decisions.
I don't see how that was crazy zerg... SK had no lings for the majority of the game and +1 carapace was not early enough for crazy zerg...
Isn't crazy zerg just zerg skipping lurkers?
Yes, crazy zerg is skipping lurkers, but it is also about having lots of +1 carapace lings with mutas and just use pure muta w/ a large amount of +1 lings to gain map control. SK did not have lings until late game and he did not have map control during the midgame.
crazy zerg is outdated anyways, we'll never see it used in a high level game ever again lol
Yea that's true, but mostly because maps have been so bad for it.
I don't see how that was crazy zerg... SK had no lings for the majority of the game and +1 carapace was not early enough for crazy zerg...
Isn't crazy zerg just zerg skipping lurkers?
Its skipping lurkers to get quick 4+ armor ultras out because they rape infantery hardcore unless they are in obscene numbers.
Anyway I dont think I have ever seen worse descion making than Fantasy showed in this game. Attacking into a wall of sunks with guards\lings\defilers for support when half your army is plagued..... Seriously?!?
Those who missed the stream, it wasn't really anything mind-boggling. Basically Leta tried to be super-cheap to catch up on econ and skipped bunker. 3-hatch speedlings -> auto-loss.
Edit: Just saw how badly off the OP's predictions were.
sk nearly snipes a drone with a sneaky ninja ling. great with not many mutas flying around looking for something to do. looks like he wants to bust in?
ling battle ensuing, muta is out waiting for a conclusion. somehow its pretty even but..
GERAT WINS THE BATTLE
FOUR LINGS LEFT ALIVE, HE TRIES TO SNIPE DRONES AND nothing dies. wow.
Every time we see a ZvZ, we could have gotten this. A refined version of this ZvZ metagame would have so much potential in the micro and management departments.
On December 25 2010 18:17 infinitestory wrote: Just think.
Every time we see a ZvZ, we could have gotten this. A refined version of this ZvZ metagame would have so much potential in the micro and management departments.
no ZvZ is better the way it is now.....because then games like this wouldn't be so EPIC!!!!
On December 25 2010 18:27 letian wrote: it was obvious from the very beginning, I dont understand why this game is entertaining, this is just waaay bad gg timing
On December 25 2010 18:27 letian wrote: it was obvious from the very beginning, I dont understand why this game is entertaining, this is just waaay bad gg timing
shit.... Soulkey lost that epic game. Maybe because he just needed some third base earlier, and then just stupidly make static defences on them like great did? That would be enough i think...
On December 25 2010 18:28 _Quasar_ wrote: shit.... Soulkey lost that epic game. Maybe because he just needed some third base earlier, and then just stupidly make static defences on them like great did? That would be enough i think...
yup Soulkey had no base defenses so he lost his third when it was building like 3 times... YAY GREAT!!!
On December 25 2010 18:27 letian wrote: it was obvious from the very beginning, I dont understand why this game is entertaining, this is just waaay bad gg timing
this game was very entertaining!!! maybe not the best play from both parts but it was a great game
Can someone help me find the article here on TL about this new zvz style? with the hive tech... read it a few weeks ago and now I cant find it to show to a friend.
On December 25 2010 18:28 _Quasar_ wrote: shit.... Soulkey lost that epic game. Maybe because he just needed some third base earlier, and then just stupidly make static defences on them like great did? That would be enough i think...
yup Soulkey had no base defenses so he lost his third when it was building like 3 times... YAY GREAT!!!
And then great just imagined that his opponent was Protoss and 1a2a3a'd him with all the ordinary Zerg ground army :D
On December 25 2010 18:27 letian wrote: it was obvious from the very beginning, I dont understand why this game is entertaining, this is just waaay bad gg timing
this game was very entertaining!!! maybe not the best play from both parts but it was a great game
well yes we do rarely see Hydra in Zvz and lurks, but during the whole game I was just waiting SK to gg, where did he have an advantage? He was sitiing on 2 bases and Great just didn't want to risk, so he was just waiting for his economy kickin so that he could spare some loses and overwhelm SK, SO apart from lol ZvZ units there was nothing to look at
On December 25 2010 18:30 Akzever wrote: Can someone help me find the article here on TL about this new zvz style? with the hive tech... read it a few weeks ago and now I cant find it to show to a friend.
On December 25 2010 18:27 letian wrote: it was obvious from the very beginning, I dont understand why this game is entertaining, this is just waaay bad gg timing
this game was very entertaining!!! maybe not the best play from both parts but it was a great game
well yes we do rarely see Hydra in Zvz and lurks, but during the whole game I was just waiting SK to gg, where did he have an advantage? He was sitiing on 2 bases and Great just didn't want to risk, so he was just waiting for his economy kickin so that he could spare some loses and overwhelm SK, SO apart from lol ZvZ units there was nothing to look at
Yeah I think the same, but still had the hopes in Soulkey But I think hive ZvZ = auto-recommendation anyways.
On December 25 2010 18:34 seRapH wrote: guys after that i'm just too tired lol. plus i got a 4 hour drive ahead of me tm so i'm retiring early, GOOD LUCK FANTASY, GET THE SECOND SEED.
Same thing here but just need to get up early so I also hope Fantasy gets the second seed and good night/good morning/good afternoon to you all
yeah predictions are ok, but sc proscene is going crazy, what is it Oz winning KT, ACE winning anyone, Flash and JD, then some really amazing results, hell of the season, its reaaaally refreshing
Somehow I think that now we're going to see Leta > Fantasy, and then Soulkey > Leta, because Leta TvT > Fanta TvT, and Soulkey's ZvT, I think, will show itself at this stage, and also Leta always fails at individual leagues...
On December 25 2010 18:40 _Quasar_ wrote: Somehow I think that now we're going to see Leta > Fantasy, and then Soulkey > Leta, because Leta TvT > Fanta TvT, and Soulkey's ZvT, I think, will show itself at this stage, and also Leta always fails at individual leagues...
On December 25 2010 18:34 Xxio wrote: he had the advantage when great plagued his own units and when great was on half a base
ahh, yes, but it was barely a victory advantage imo
It was, but then he just let Great expand for free, instead of expanding on his own. Best decision would be probably expand ASAP, because he had nothing to kill these 1000000 spores and sunks in great's base. Then, if compare this game to ZvP, SK would be a Z, not great :D
worry for soulkey now, whoever wins this has been playing real well, think vs great was his best chance. Obv didn't see game 1 so maybe it's not as bad as it seems?
Leta's new base at 10.5 is under attack by a couple of vultures, with more of fantasy's units on the way. Leta drops some units on the highground to keep them away.
Fantasy with near full map control now. The units near 12 are killed and fantasy re-lands his cc there.
Leta drops at 4.5. Fantasy brings his own dropships and clears Leta's units, losing 2 dropships in the process.
4 more dropships drop at 4.5 again. Fantasy only has 3 of his odn dropships and is unable to counterdrop. SCVs at 4.5 are killed and the CC is destroyed.
Fantasy is going to attack leta's nat!! crosses the bridge with his units and uses the 2 dropships to drop near the tanks.
wow i thought that the turning point was when fantasy dropped in leta's main and took out his supples and also took out his top left expo. well played by fantasy though it seemed shaky to me.
Typical typical typical. Fantasy plays like utter trash in first game and then just demolishes one of the better TvT'ers in a super high level game. I dont even dare make a prediction for the next game
On December 25 2010 19:11 _Quasar_ wrote: Wow wtf... Leta was so ahead and then lost all depots and lost the game. T_T He must be really really disappointed...
After many recent examples of poor game sense and decision-making, I thought Fantasy's decision to push Leta's main while he was losing his (4 o'clock?) expo was the winning of the game.
He's going to have to come up with a more aggressive approach against SK tho. Will be interesting to see the BOs of each player in the rematch.
On December 25 2010 19:12 dukethegold wrote: Poor Leta
I feel your pain.
Even during your prime, you never had any luck with individual leagues despite sufficient skill to claim a title.
Now you have fallen from the peak, you still have no luck whatsoever.
Not a very pleasant christmas.
However
FANTASY V.S. SK ROUND 2!!!
Kind of his fault though, for cheesing when he could have beaten great in a standard game given his TvZ skills. I would say poor decision making more than just bad luck in individual leagues.
On December 25 2010 19:35 Xinliben wrote: Guess I'll just turn the terran music on and make little pieces of paper of my table top move around according to the live reports
On December 25 2010 19:34 shadesofkarma wrote: how get plu working?
use iexplorer or ie tab plus for firefox, then use one of the addons at the bottom of the player (click to install), pplive, qqlive or uusee i've seen work the best
On December 25 2010 19:34 shadesofkarma wrote: how get plu working?
use iexplorer or ie tab plus for firefox, then use one of the addons at the bottom of the player (click to install), pplive, qqlive or uusee i've seen work the best
Why are all these plugins so baaaaaaaaaaaad. One failed because of a temp file issue and won't do anything now. One doesn't seem to have done anything even tohugh I clicked install, and the other is taking agessssssss.
On December 25 2010 19:46 Lonyo wrote: Why are all these plugins so baaaaaaaaaaaad. One failed because of a temp file issue and won't do anything now. One doesn't seem to have done anything even tohugh I clicked install, and the other is taking agessssssss.
Uusee is the easiest to install. I have problems with the others.
On December 25 2010 19:46 Lonyo wrote: Why are all these plugins so baaaaaaaaaaaad. One failed because of a temp file issue and won't do anything now. One doesn't seem to have done anything even tohugh I clicked install, and the other is taking agessssssss.
Uusee is the easiest to install. I have problems with the others.
None of them work for me. I just don't even try chinese streams anymore because they always give so much bloat/problems in addition.
On December 25 2010 19:46 Lonyo wrote: Why are all these plugins so baaaaaaaaaaaad. One failed because of a temp file issue and won't do anything now. One doesn't seem to have done anything even tohugh I clicked install, and the other is taking agessssssss.
Uusee is the easiest to install. I have problems with the others.
I just installed it, eventually, and it won't do anything.
On December 25 2010 19:46 Lonyo wrote: Why are all these plugins so baaaaaaaaaaaad. One failed because of a temp file issue and won't do anything now. One doesn't seem to have done anything even tohugh I clicked install, and the other is taking agessssssss.
Uusee is the easiest to install. I have problems with the others.
I just installed it, eventually, and it won't do anything.
Close and open the browser again. The stream should start loading. Takes a couple minutes.
Did soulkey really forget Adrenal glands?? Maybe that's why that marine survived for so long. 2 lings should definitely be able to take down a continuosly healded marine w/ adrenal glands!!!! Swarm push and Ultraling on Fantasy's last mining base!!!! DOWN TO 3 VESSELS!!!
OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!!! SOULKEY ENTERS THE RD OF 16!!!!!!!! his forgetting of Adrenal glands allowed Fantasy to stay alive muuuch longer than he should have. Amazing game. Recommended for sure.
What a disaster. Fantasy had the game in the bag, if he had just started getting a ton of vulture with mines instead of sticking with bio. Few mines would have secured the bottom left easily instead of getting overrun by a few lings
Pretty epic game, tho I thought Fantasy became a little bit obsessed with that 1 o'clock. If he was ever going to take it he needed to take out that nydus beforehand (which he did once) to prevent reinforcements.
Well-played from SK. He certainly knows how to defend.
He absolutely could have won this game had he played in any non brain-dead way. I'm not even a Fantasy fan but it's always interesting to see him play BoX's, and to see him go out like this is just infuriating. It's games like this that show why he'll never be better than Flash, ugh. What happened to doing a mech transition during the 15 minutes where he was on Soulkey's side of the map? At least secure the other main?
And in the Triathlon game, never taking a third base (including his own back natural, sure Soulkey had Guardians but Fanta had two Starports and even some Turrets would buy enough time to get Vessels or Wraiths over at any point...) as if there was a chance in the world he could break 4 base Lurker/Guardian with two base SK Terran?
Just absolutely atrocious, stubborn play by Fantasy. It's as if someone bet him he couldn't get out of this group playing only SK Terran.
1. Terran with one less or equal bases to zerg? Check! 2. Terran with total map control? Check! 3. Terran with gazillion imba vessels? Check! 4. Zerg making the stupid mistake of forgetting adrenal glands? Check!
On December 25 2010 20:03 baubo wrote: That was a disgrace of a performance by Fantasy.
1. Terran with one less or equal bases to zerg? Check! 2. Terran with total map control? Check! 3. Terran with gazillion imba vessels? Check! 4. Zerg making the stupid mistake of forgetting adrenal glands? Check!
How does a terran lose that? HOW?
Probably he did not know what to do after the sunken block and got panic ??????
On December 25 2010 19:55 PoP wrote: This is over.
Suiciding that first M&M group to the sunkens was a HUGE mistake, pretty sure he could've broken through had he waited for the reinforcements.
and for SK's lurkers / even more sunks -__-
He wasn't making any more sunkens. There would've been 2-3 lurkers and maybe a few more lings yeah, but 15ish M&M easily > that in my book.
Don't forget SK's muta ball, that can definitely add the DPS required to defend. Although had Fantasy's reinforcements showed up, SK's lurkers would have been done, and Lurkers+sunkens+lings+mutas can (I think) hold off a much larger force than what Fantasy would've had.
On December 25 2010 20:02 darktreb wrote: Wow Fantasy what the hell?
He absolutely could have won this game had he played in any non brain-dead way. I'm not even a Fantasy fan but it's always interesting to see him play BoX's, and to see him go out like this is just infuriating. It's games like this that show why he'll never be better than Flash, ugh. What happened to doing a mech transition during the 15 minutes where he was on Soulkey's side of the map? At least secure the other main?
And in the Triathlon game, never taking a third base (including his own back natural, sure Soulkey had Guardians but Fanta had two Starports and even some Turrets would buy enough time to get Vessels or Wraiths over at any point...) as if there was a chance in the world he could break 4 base Lurker/Guardian with two base SK Terran?
Just absolutely atrocious, stubborn play by Fantasy. It's as if someone bet him he couldn't get out of this group playing only SK Terran.
Kind of have to agree there. Last game especially he could have easily won by throwing up some factories at his new base in bottom left and just pump out some vulture/tank. With mech he can easily secure both main and natural there from unless Soulkey totally commits to taking it out. Instead he just tried to force his way in with MM while not defending his new bases. Very dissapointing
On December 25 2010 20:05 hitthat wrote: 5. Plague murdered terran forces? check
Which begs the question of WTF fantasy was doing with all his SVs the entire game. Dude could've probably erasered the entire drone population due to SK squeezing his gas for almost the entire game. And instead they couldn't even do their job of getting rid of all the defilers on the map.
Fantasy used his mnm force like freaking mech. That is, he gather up a huge force and just attack. It was textbook example of how NOT to play mnm.
On December 25 2010 19:55 PoP wrote: This is over.
Suiciding that first M&M group to the sunkens was a HUGE mistake, pretty sure he could've broken through had he waited for the reinforcements.
and for SK's lurkers / even more sunks -__-
He wasn't making any more sunkens. There would've been 2-3 lurkers and maybe a few more lings yeah, but 15ish M&M easily > that in my book.
Don't forget SK's muta ball, that can definitely add the DPS required to defend. Although had Fantasy's reinforcements showed up, SK's lurkers would have been done, and Lurkers+sunkens+lings+mutas can (I think) hold off a much larger force than what Fantasy would've had.
Maybe. Still, suiciding your first M&M group is never a good option. Merging the two forces is exactly what I feel like someone like Flash would do, regardless of whether he would attack with them or just retreat/deny other expos.
Maybe. Still, suiciding your first M&M group is never a good option. Merging the two forces is exactly what I feel like someone like Flash would do, regardless of whether he would attack with them or just retreat/deny other expos.
Yes, just a few seconds more, and the two balls would have merged. It didn't seem like sk could have done anything if that had happened.
On December 25 2010 19:55 PoP wrote: This is over.
Suiciding that first M&M group to the sunkens was a HUGE mistake, pretty sure he could've broken through had he waited for the reinforcements.
and for SK's lurkers / even more sunks -__-
He wasn't making any more sunkens. There would've been 2-3 lurkers and maybe a few more lings yeah, but 15ish M&M easily > that in my book.
Don't forget SK's muta ball, that can definitely add the DPS required to defend. Although had Fantasy's reinforcements showed up, SK's lurkers would have been done, and Lurkers+sunkens+lings+mutas can (I think) hold off a much larger force than what Fantasy would've had.
Maybe. Still, suiciding your first M&M group is never a good option. Merging the two forces is exactly what I feel like someone like Flash would do, regardless of whether he would attack with them or just retreat/deny other expos.
I think you're overweighting Fantasy's suiciding his first M&M group. While that was bad, it doesn't mean that T is irreversibly behind from that point on. In spite of that terrible decision, the following still happened:
- Fantasy killed Soulkey's third before it really got going causing Soulkey to hit Hive with 2 base - Fantasy killed Soulkey's fourth as it just went up (when Soulkey took a 3rd and 4th base simultaneously) thus delaying his four gas explosion by a long time - It was 4 base versus 4 base for a significant period of time, yeah one of Fantasy's bases was min-only but that's good enough in TvZ - Fantasy was literally parked all across Soulkey's side of the map for like 15 minutes and Soulkey barely crossed the halfway point of the map until like the 25 or 30 minute mark - Soulkey forgot Adrenal Glands for essentially the entire game
Each of these things is a great thing for T in TvZ, and I would consider almost all of them to be as significant of a "bad thing" for Z as Fantasy's initial failed Sunken break was a bad thing for T. Usually a failed Sunken break results in Zerg taking a 3rd and maybe even a 4th with no problems and/or wreaking havoc in the Terran main with Mutas, but neither of those things happened in this game.
While it's true Fantasy could probably have ended the game had he executed the break properly, it doesn't mean that he was extremely behind after that point, and indeed was actually way ahead for probably the entire midgame but just kept doing just enough dumb things constantly (literally we're talking about just brain dead things that are really really bad by pro standards) to let Soulkey hang in there. How long did he have to secure the other main/natural? How many chances did he have to get some Vultures and Mines, or Tanks? How many times did he suicide a bajillion infantry trying to use D-Matrixed Firebats to break through Swarms?
Fact is, Fantasy was way ahead for most of this game, and if you'd put any other above average Terran in his position from basically the point where he killed Soulkey's third till the moment when Soulkey took down Fantasy's other main, they would have won. If you'd put Fantasy on any other day in that position he would have won. It was a really bad day/game by Fantasy....
Relax, Fanta still in OSL, and i dont see there any zerg with A-class ZvT (as Shine is still not confirmed and yes, i dont have a confidence in Calm's ability to beat him in Bo5), so farther he go, his chances increase.
Unless Stork/Shine or Kal (or Hiya?) wont cross his position.
On December 26 2010 02:21 Xiphos wrote: Meh, every single of those games looks lackluster....
I thought the Fanta vs Leta tvt was pretty fun to watch, and the zvz was worth watching for hive tech units even if great was so ahead for most of it. the fanta vs soulkey games...well...were pretty fail. fanta could have easily transitioned instead of stubbornly sticking to skterran in the last game. some vultures/mines or tanks...well, he's in the osl ro8 so hopefully he can concentrate on that and produce some better results in pl too while he's at it.
What I actually like about SoulKey is his ability to put up such kind of games where you are forced to think "OMFG!!1111 How are you supposed to beat THIS??" His defence really looked unbreakable today, in both games. Though Fanta's lack of invention in tactics made it easier for him but still... He is really confident in what he does. Maybe we'll finally see a Zerg's Flash? (Jaedong is great too but he'll never become a "Flash", completely different play style...)
P.S.: How to login into liquipedia as a member? =\ It says "log in with your TL account", but i type the name "_Quasar_" and it tells me no such member. O.O What do I have to do? I just wanted to upload images for such notable players as Shine, Soulkey and so on, 'cause it's a shame that their images still have a "?" instead of photo.
WHAT THE FUCK...I come back after my sleep to discover the 2 players I didn't think were going to advance, advance! Ugh everyone is failing me these days
It's not just Fanta/Leta's fail (but well, Leta's fail yes... -.- ), but SoulKey's play being full of win. Great also made the winners final ZvZ a gem, so imo he deserves to advance ^_^
Fantasy was somewhat expected; his vZ match-up is pretty shaky. He really should work on that as his other match-ups are far more stable than his vZ match-up, especially his vP (I would even go as far as to claim that only Stork would actually win against Fantasy in a Bo5 on a consistent basis; no other Protoss can touch Fantasy in a Bo5).
Leta I'm surprised about; I don't know much about Leta but isn't Leta supposed to be really good in the TvZ match-up? What happened?
On December 26 2010 04:52 HitoriTomoyo wrote: Fantasy was somewhat expected; his vZ match-up is pretty shaky. He really should work on that as his other match-ups are far more stable than his vZ match-up, especially his vP (I would even go as far as to claim that only Stork would actually win against Fantasy in a Bo5 on a consistent basis; no other Protoss can touch Fantasy in a Bo5).
Leta I'm surprised about; I don't know much about Leta but isn't Leta supposed to be really good in the TvZ match-up? What happened?
He did a non-economic proxy rax opening (was scouted) and then died to 3hatch speedlings.
In losers match he faced Fantasy and, despite having a significant advantage at one point, lost all his supply depots and then got outnumbered.
As soon as Modesty slammed him in the OSL Fantasy has been doing terribly.
No more lame silver medalist running around. I've been waiting for Fantasy to turn into a bad player for so long and it's finally happening. A dream come true.
I did hope for a better showing from Leta. Great busting through was not unexpected in the least, but despite some success this season, I thought Soulkey wouldn't have what it takes. Serious props to him for dishing it out. I'm going to watch the Fantasy games as soon as possible. Hurrah!
On December 26 2010 04:52 HitoriTomoyo wrote: Fantasy was somewhat expected; his vZ match-up is pretty shaky. He really should work on that as his other match-ups are far more stable than his vZ match-up, especially his vP (I would even go as far as to claim that only Stork would actually win against Fantasy in a Bo5 on a consistent basis; no other Protoss can touch Fantasy in a Bo5).
Leta I'm surprised about; I don't know much about Leta but isn't Leta supposed to be really good in the TvZ match-up? What happened?
Your knowledge seems very out-dated.
Fantasy used to be unable to play TvZ "normally" but more recently his bionic has actually become pretty good. He's #5 in TvZ ELO and was actually #3 a few days ago. 30-18 (63%) in 2010, 16-6 in the past 6 months (73%), 16-4 (80%!!!) coming into last night's games. So, yeah...
Leta used to be known for his awesome wraith play and his good control. Then zergs figured out how to stop his wraiths. #8 in TvZ ELO, and that's riding the back of a recent win streak. 18-15 (55%) in 2010, 9-8 (53%) in the past 6 months. He's been struggling lately.
On December 25 2010 20:02 darktreb wrote: Wow Fantasy what the hell?
He absolutely could have won this game had he played in any non brain-dead way. I'm not even a Fantasy fan but it's always interesting to see him play BoX's, and to see him go out like this is just infuriating. It's games like this that show why he'll never be better than Flash, ugh. What happened to doing a mech transition during the 15 minutes where he was on Soulkey's side of the map? At least secure the other main?
And in the Triathlon game, never taking a third base (including his own back natural, sure Soulkey had Guardians but Fanta had two Starports and even some Turrets would buy enough time to get Vessels or Wraiths over at any point...) as if there was a chance in the world he could break 4 base Lurker/Guardian with two base SK Terran?
Just absolutely atrocious, stubborn play by Fantasy. It's as if someone bet him he couldn't get out of this group playing only SK Terran.
Look at the map, the mid is totally open. This isnt Match Point, Polaris Rhapsody, aka the korean air OSL mechfest maps. Going mech is a no go, way too immobile and open to flanks, even late game.
On December 25 2010 20:03 baubo wrote: That was a disgrace of a performance by Fantasy.
1. Terran with one less or equal bases to zerg? Check! 2. Terran with total map control? Check! 3. Terran with gazillion imba vessels? Check! 4. Zerg making the stupid mistake of forgetting adrenal glands? Check!
How does a terran lose that? HOW?
fantasy played solid, you gotta look at Soulkey. He was the reason: excellent defiler control, he is the best z in the world at this; solid decision making, good unit econ balance
On December 25 2010 21:19 darktreb wrote: While it's true Fantasy could probably have ended the game had he executed the break properly, it doesn't mean that he was extremely behind after that point, and indeed was actually way ahead for probably the entire midgame but just kept doing just enough dumb things constantly (literally we're talking about just brain dead things that are really really bad by pro standards) to let Soulkey hang in there. How long did he have to secure the other main/natural? How many chances did he have to get some Vultures and Mines, or Tanks? How many times did he suicide a bajillion infantry trying to use D-Matrixed Firebats to break through Swarms?
Again, look at the map bro, this aint the mech-fest maps of last two OSL seasons.
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/I0OyC.jpg)
Fantasy <Triathalon> 
Neo.G_Soulkey![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/8MULJ.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/S4V1S.png)
