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l10f
United States3241 Posts
Someone asked a question about how effective a stasis on scvs would be in this thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=97297
based on these four questions
On July 10 2009 00:03 lac29 wrote:
1) What's the max # of SCVs that can be stasis-ed?
2) Can a stasis on SCVs cause a sig enough econ loss on the Terran to be worth it? (esp if Terran is off say 2 bases maybe?)
3) Do stasis-ed SCVs automatically restart mining after coming out of stasis?
4) Are there any VODs that show stasis-ing of SCVs?
There were too many different types of answers, such as
On July 10 2009 10:05 ultramagnetics wrote:
Stasising SCVs is an absolutely horrible strategy.
On July 10 2009 14:16 SlayerS_`HackeR` wrote:
WTF are you saying? Freezing SCVs is an "absolutely horrible strategy."
Stasis lasts for a helluva long time, and it can jack potentially hundreds of minerals.
When you're looking for advice, watch out for people who don't know what they're talking about.
Freezing tanks/vessels < Freezing SCVs < Recall
So... I went off and tried a few things with workers and stasis, and came up with the following conclusions.
Results:
1) Inifinite
2) Yes, and no.
3) Yes
4) Yes
1. I gathered 1000+ workers onto one mineral patch, then stasised. All of them froze, but a HUGE lag spike ensued on my computer for some reason. So if you can gather all their workers onto a single mineral patch, I think it's definitely worth it. (This might prove to be very difficult, however)
2. Is it really worth it? When I tried using stasis on workers mining (about 20 of them on a 9-patch base) I found two interesting things.
First, if a worker is stasised while mining a patch, no other worker can mine from that patch until the stasis is over. This means that if you can stasis four workers working on four different patches at once, those four patches are un-mineable until the stasis is over.
Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp.
By using these two facts to your advantage, I believe it is sometimes worth it to stasis the workers. If you can stasis multiple workers mining multiple different patches, it might be worth it to reduce their mine-able patches when playing on a low economy. Also, it might be worth it to bring a probe in your recall, tell it to mine a mineral and freeze it on the ramp, that way they can't be moved by using scvs, and you can demolish their main base :D
Another small thing I found while doing this experiment is that if you stasis a worker mining a patch, when they come out of the stasis, they will be done mining and will be holding a mineral chunk no matter how long they were mining the patch before the stasis was used. Not very useful, but interesting.
3. Workers that have been stasised resume mining when stasis is over. Boo, if they didn't this could really be worth it =[ Too bad.
4. In FBH vs Much (The heart ceremony game) you can see the scvs unable to mine the patches that a stasised scv is mining.
In conclusion, I believe it's better to stasis the units instead of workers in most cases, but if you have max energy on arbiter and terran isn't moving out, just use it on workers since you can't get more than 250 energy anyway. And when you recall and they drill scvs out of their main, stasis on ramp instead of your own unit, and the terran units will never be able to climb the ramp until stasis is over!
Edit: Apparently stasising your own workers in fastest during a temp/tank/lurker/reaver drop is a valid strategy.
Images:
+ Show Spoiler +
Edit2:
Thanks to jello_biafra/Symmetry for the research
On July 25 2009 22:14 [GMTA]_HumBug wrote:
Q: what happens if you try to stasis a SCV constructing a building? Can you cancel the building? Halt it and resume with another SCV? Imagine a situation where terran is expanding, you stasis the SCV building the CC and T cant do a thing but wait for it to unfreeze.
On July 26 2009 00:25 jello_biafra wrote:
Just tested this out, you can't continue construction until the SCV is unfrozen, trying to put another SCV on it does nothing, you can however still cancel the building.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On July 22 2009 02:28 l10f wrote:
Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp.
Many players have used stasis walls on ramps only to get them drilled out of the way. What you're saying here is that if they recalled a worked with a mineral, told it to return cargo, and then stasised it, it wouldn't be able to be drilled out of the way? That's a pretty big deal if it's true.
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On July 22 2009 02:55 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2009 02:28 l10f wrote:
Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp.
Many players have used stasis walls on ramps only to get them drilled out of the way. What you're saying here is that if they recalled a worked with a mineral, told it to return cargo, and then stasised it, it wouldn't be able to be drilled out of the way? That's a pretty big deal if it's true.
that's exactly what I'm saying.
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be funny if someone used this strat on fastest
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Sometimes PvT gets after 30 minutes to a point when T has one mining base and the toss has maybe two and a shittone of energy on the Arbiters. Than definetly is a good idea to use it, but really situation dependant
nice to see a Guide wrote about it
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Starcraft the game with infinite possibilities. ies ies ies.
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17082 Posts
On July 22 2009 02:56 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2009 02:55 Chill wrote:On July 22 2009 02:28 l10f wrote:
Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp.
Many players have used stasis walls on ramps only to get them drilled out of the way. What you're saying here is that if they recalled a worked with a mineral, told it to return cargo, and then stasised it, it wouldn't be able to be drilled out of the way? That's a pretty big deal if it's true. that's exactly what I'm saying.
Does it still have collision or can units pass through them?
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i guess its worth it if their economy falls sufficiently
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On July 22 2009 03:15 houseurmusic wrote:
be funny if someone used this strat on fastest
Ive used it before. Stasising 70 workers for 30 seconds is more efficent than losing all of them to a storm/lurk/tank drop
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On July 22 2009 03:26 Empyrean wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2009 02:56 l10f wrote:On July 22 2009 02:55 Chill wrote:On July 22 2009 02:28 l10f wrote:
Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp.
Many players have used stasis walls on ramps only to get them drilled out of the way. What you're saying here is that if they recalled a worked with a mineral, told it to return cargo, and then stasised it, it wouldn't be able to be drilled out of the way? That's a pretty big deal if it's true. that's exactly what I'm saying. Does it still have collision or can units pass through them?
it has collision. units can't pass through
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That's a really interesting idea about stasising a probe on the ramp. If you can do it in a real game show us a replay, it'd be so awesome.
I think freezing the workers when terran is down to one mining base makes this worth it, if they have more than one base I think you'd be better off using your energy for something else.
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Lol, nice work researching all this. It's pretty interesting to know all this "useless" stuff and it can only amaze you how many little things like these are yet to be known 
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Nice research, I'd love to see the things used here in practice. Might suit some nice Stove build;)
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On July 22 2009 02:55 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2009 02:28 l10f wrote:
Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp.
Many players have used stasis walls on ramps only to get them drilled out of the way. What you're saying here is that if they recalled a worked with a mineral, told it to return cargo, and then stasised it, it wouldn't be able to be drilled out of the way? That's a pretty big deal if it's true.
O_Oa. Do pros know this? And if they do is it just a hastle to do and they dont even bother with it? I have seen them recall and stasis a dragoon ample times but never have i seen a worker recalled and stasised instead. Thats epic, but i dont think that it would be that useful, for me at least probably becasue i just stasis their units as they come up the ramp and then destroy depots and factories or gateways. I dont really target workers, i just let the units kill whatever.
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Oh my goodness... You are a frigging genius. I love you, though we'd have to wait for the progamers to actually use this stuff in a real game to perfect execution... So a peon in a permeable state (other units can move through it) can not be moved even while in stasis. Try recalling like 10 probes into their base along with your army. Mine their nat mineral patches, and stasis them all.
One more thing, if peons are in a stacked line (like when you send 12 to a mineral patch across the map, they create a little permeable line), when they're stasised, do they still move apart?
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On July 22 2009 05:06 Archaic wrote:
Oh my goodness... You are a frigging genius. I love you, though we'd have to wait for the progamers to actually use this stuff in a real game to perfect execution... So a peon in a permeable state (other units can move through it) can not be moved even while in stasis. Try recalling like 10 probes into their base along with your army. Mine their nat mineral patches, and stasis them all.
One more thing, if peons are in a stacked line (like when you send 12 to a mineral patch across the map, they create a little permeable line), when they're stasised, do they still move apart?
nope, they stay in line stacked, and cannot be drilled out of the way, and become a invincible wall until stasis runs out
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That's pretty cool. Thanks for sharing.
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Thanks for all the hard work exploring this. Even though this game is 10 years old we're still discovering things about it!
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That's a really cool trick you found. Now the recall into terran base and stasis ramp move just got stronger.
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Added to Liquipedia (pending review by an editor of course).
Nice find!
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