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l10f
United States3241 Posts
Someone asked a question about how effective a stasis on scvs would be in this thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=97297
based on these four questions
On July 10 2009 00:03 lac29 wrote:
1) What's the max # of SCVs that can be stasis-ed?
2) Can a stasis on SCVs cause a sig enough econ loss on the Terran to be worth it? (esp if Terran is off say 2 bases maybe?)
3) Do stasis-ed SCVs automatically restart mining after coming out of stasis?
4) Are there any VODs that show stasis-ing of SCVs?
There were too many different types of answers, such as
On July 10 2009 10:05 ultramagnetics wrote:
Stasising SCVs is an absolutely horrible strategy.
On July 10 2009 14:16 SlayerS_`HackeR` wrote:
WTF are you saying? Freezing SCVs is an "absolutely horrible strategy."
Stasis lasts for a helluva long time, and it can jack potentially hundreds of minerals.
When you're looking for advice, watch out for people who don't know what they're talking about.
Freezing tanks/vessels < Freezing SCVs < Recall
So... I went off and tried a few things with workers and stasis, and came up with the following conclusions.
Results:
1) Inifinite
2) Yes, and no.
3) Yes
4) Yes
1. I gathered 1000+ workers onto one mineral patch, then stasised. All of them froze, but a HUGE lag spike ensued on my computer for some reason. So if you can gather all their workers onto a single mineral patch, I think it's definitely worth it. (This might prove to be very difficult, however)
2. Is it really worth it? When I tried using stasis on workers mining (about 20 of them on a 9-patch base) I found two interesting things.
First, if a worker is stasised while mining a patch, no other worker can mine from that patch until the stasis is over. This means that if you can stasis four workers working on four different patches at once, those four patches are un-mineable until the stasis is over.
Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp.
By using these two facts to your advantage, I believe it is sometimes worth it to stasis the workers. If you can stasis multiple workers mining multiple different patches, it might be worth it to reduce their mine-able patches when playing on a low economy. Also, it might be worth it to bring a probe in your recall, tell it to mine a mineral and freeze it on the ramp, that way they can't be moved by using scvs, and you can demolish their main base :D
Another small thing I found while doing this experiment is that if you stasis a worker mining a patch, when they come out of the stasis, they will be done mining and will be holding a mineral chunk no matter how long they were mining the patch before the stasis was used. Not very useful, but interesting.
3. Workers that have been stasised resume mining when stasis is over. Boo, if they didn't this could really be worth it =[ Too bad.
4. In FBH vs Much (The heart ceremony game) you can see the scvs unable to mine the patches that a stasised scv is mining.
In conclusion, I believe it's better to stasis the units instead of workers in most cases, but if you have max energy on arbiter and terran isn't moving out, just use it on workers since you can't get more than 250 energy anyway. And when you recall and they drill scvs out of their main, stasis on ramp instead of your own unit, and the terran units will never be able to climb the ramp until stasis is over!
Edit: Apparently stasising your own workers in fastest during a temp/tank/lurker/reaver drop is a valid strategy.
Images:
+ Show Spoiler +
Edit2:
Thanks to jello_biafra/Symmetry for the research
On July 25 2009 22:14 [GMTA]_HumBug wrote:
Q: what happens if you try to stasis a SCV constructing a building? Can you cancel the building? Halt it and resume with another SCV? Imagine a situation where terran is expanding, you stasis the SCV building the CC and T cant do a thing but wait for it to unfreeze.
On July 26 2009 00:25 jello_biafra wrote:
Just tested this out, you can't continue construction until the SCV is unfrozen, trying to put another SCV on it does nothing, you can however still cancel the building.
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Calgary25981 Posts
On July 22 2009 02:28 l10f wrote:
Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp.
Many players have used stasis walls on ramps only to get them drilled out of the way. What you're saying here is that if they recalled a worked with a mineral, told it to return cargo, and then stasised it, it wouldn't be able to be drilled out of the way? That's a pretty big deal if it's true.
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On July 22 2009 02:55 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2009 02:28 l10f wrote:
Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp.
Many players have used stasis walls on ramps only to get them drilled out of the way. What you're saying here is that if they recalled a worked with a mineral, told it to return cargo, and then stasised it, it wouldn't be able to be drilled out of the way? That's a pretty big deal if it's true.
that's exactly what I'm saying.
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be funny if someone used this strat on fastest
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Sometimes PvT gets after 30 minutes to a point when T has one mining base and the toss has maybe two and a shittone of energy on the Arbiters. Than definetly is a good idea to use it, but really situation dependant
nice to see a Guide wrote about it
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Starcraft the game with infinite possibilities. ies ies ies.
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16992 Posts
On July 22 2009 02:56 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2009 02:55 Chill wrote:On July 22 2009 02:28 l10f wrote:
Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp.
Many players have used stasis walls on ramps only to get them drilled out of the way. What you're saying here is that if they recalled a worked with a mineral, told it to return cargo, and then stasised it, it wouldn't be able to be drilled out of the way? That's a pretty big deal if it's true. that's exactly what I'm saying.
Does it still have collision or can units pass through them?
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i guess its worth it if their economy falls sufficiently
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On July 22 2009 03:15 houseurmusic wrote:
be funny if someone used this strat on fastest
Ive used it before. Stasising 70 workers for 30 seconds is more efficent than losing all of them to a storm/lurk/tank drop
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On July 22 2009 03:26 Empyrean wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2009 02:56 l10f wrote:On July 22 2009 02:55 Chill wrote:On July 22 2009 02:28 l10f wrote:
Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp.
Many players have used stasis walls on ramps only to get them drilled out of the way. What you're saying here is that if they recalled a worked with a mineral, told it to return cargo, and then stasised it, it wouldn't be able to be drilled out of the way? That's a pretty big deal if it's true. that's exactly what I'm saying. Does it still have collision or can units pass through them?
it has collision. units can't pass through
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That's a really interesting idea about stasising a probe on the ramp. If you can do it in a real game show us a replay, it'd be so awesome.
I think freezing the workers when terran is down to one mining base makes this worth it, if they have more than one base I think you'd be better off using your energy for something else.
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Lol, nice work researching all this. It's pretty interesting to know all this "useless" stuff and it can only amaze you how many little things like these are yet to be known 
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Nice research, I'd love to see the things used here in practice. Might suit some nice Stove build;)
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On July 22 2009 02:55 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2009 02:28 l10f wrote:
Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp.
Many players have used stasis walls on ramps only to get them drilled out of the way. What you're saying here is that if they recalled a worked with a mineral, told it to return cargo, and then stasised it, it wouldn't be able to be drilled out of the way? That's a pretty big deal if it's true.
O_Oa. Do pros know this? And if they do is it just a hastle to do and they dont even bother with it? I have seen them recall and stasis a dragoon ample times but never have i seen a worker recalled and stasised instead. Thats epic, but i dont think that it would be that useful, for me at least probably becasue i just stasis their units as they come up the ramp and then destroy depots and factories or gateways. I dont really target workers, i just let the units kill whatever.
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Oh my goodness... You are a frigging genius. I love you, though we'd have to wait for the progamers to actually use this stuff in a real game to perfect execution... So a peon in a permeable state (other units can move through it) can not be moved even while in stasis. Try recalling like 10 probes into their base along with your army. Mine their nat mineral patches, and stasis them all.
One more thing, if peons are in a stacked line (like when you send 12 to a mineral patch across the map, they create a little permeable line), when they're stasised, do they still move apart?
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On July 22 2009 05:06 Archaic wrote:
Oh my goodness... You are a frigging genius. I love you, though we'd have to wait for the progamers to actually use this stuff in a real game to perfect execution... So a peon in a permeable state (other units can move through it) can not be moved even while in stasis. Try recalling like 10 probes into their base along with your army. Mine their nat mineral patches, and stasis them all.
One more thing, if peons are in a stacked line (like when you send 12 to a mineral patch across the map, they create a little permeable line), when they're stasised, do they still move apart?
nope, they stay in line stacked, and cannot be drilled out of the way, and become a invincible wall until stasis runs out
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That's pretty cool. Thanks for sharing.
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Thanks for all the hard work exploring this. Even though this game is 10 years old we're still discovering things about it!
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That's a really cool trick you found. Now the recall into terran base and stasis ramp move just got stronger.
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Added to Liquipedia (pending review by an editor of course).
Nice find!
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On July 22 2009 03:15 houseurmusic wrote:
be funny if someone used this strat on fastest
omg im gonna go do this right now
Ahhh this is why fastest is awesome, you just get to mess with people.
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someone should mail this to bisu asap
seriously seems like hell of a strong move if u use one of your one probes and gather minerals before you recall it.
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On July 22 2009 02:55 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2009 02:28 l10f wrote:
Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp.
Many players have used stasis walls on ramps only to get them drilled out of the way. What you're saying here is that if they recalled a worked with a mineral, told it to return cargo, and then stasised it, it wouldn't be able to be drilled out of the way? That's a pretty big deal if it's true.
Presumably, if the opponent is drilling through the ramp, they've already used the "gather" or "return cargo" command to do so, right? So you can even dispense with the need for a probe... if they try to drill through, just stasis the drilling SCVs.
Of course, the difficulty is that you'd have to time it so that you stasis them before they hit the stop button to cancel the return-cargo order, but even if you miss, it would probably create enough of a mess to stop their units from coming through anyway.
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On July 22 2009 03:15 houseurmusic wrote:
be funny if someone used this strat on fastest
I remember watching a video of someone attempting a storm drop on this guy on fastest and the guy stasised his own probes to avoid all of them from getting stormed
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On July 22 2009 07:01 jjl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2009 02:55 Chill wrote:On July 22 2009 02:28 l10f wrote:
Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp.
Many players have used stasis walls on ramps only to get them drilled out of the way. What you're saying here is that if they recalled a worked with a mineral, told it to return cargo, and then stasised it, it wouldn't be able to be drilled out of the way? That's a pretty big deal if it's true. Presumably, if the opponent is drilling through the ramp, they've already used the "gather" or "return cargo" command to do so, right? So you can even dispense with the need for a probe... if they try to drill through, just stasis the drilling SCVs. Of course, the difficulty is that you'd have to time it so that you stasis them before they hit the stop button to cancel the return-cargo order, but even if you miss, it would probably create enough of a mess to stop their units from coming through anyway.
could work but better to sacrifice a small number of probes and 1 stasis rather then use 2 stasis with a chance of failing big time
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So how much money would they lose per mineral patch for the time of the stasis assuming
1) 1 worker per patch, average distance (I remember seeing two threads about patch efficiency)
or
2) complete saturation (obviously distance won't matter)
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On July 22 2009 02:28 l10f wrote:....EDITED .... Show nested quote +On July 10 2009 10:05 ultramagnetics wrote:
Stasising SCVs is an absolutely horrible strategy. Show nested quote +On July 10 2009 14:16 SlayerS_`HackeR` wrote:
WTF are you saying? Freezing SCVs is an "absolutely horrible strategy."
Stasis lasts for a helluva long time, and it can jack potentially hundreds of minerals.
When you're looking for advice, watch out for people who don't know what they're talking about.
Freezing tanks/vessels < Freezing SCVs < Recall 2. Is it really worth it? When I tried using stasis on workers mining (about 20 of them on a 9-patch base) I found two interesting things. First, if a worker is stasised while mining a patch, no other worker can mine from that patch until the stasis is over. This means that if you can stasis four workers working on four different patches at once, those four patches are un-mineable until the stasis is over. Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp. By using these two facts to your advantage, I believe it is sometimes worth it to stasis the workers. If you can stasis multiple workers mining multiple different patches, it might be worth it to reduce their mine-able patches when playing on a low economy. Also, it might be worth it to bring a probe in your recall, tell it to mine a mineral and freeze it on the ramp, that way they can't be moved by using scvs, and you can demolish their main base :D Another small thing I found while doing this experiment is that if you stasis a worker mining a patch, when they come out of the stasis, they will be done mining and will be holding a mineral chunk no matter how long they were mining the patch before the stasis was used. Not very useful, but interesting.
Since I am being quoted, I have the urge to respond.
First off, I did mention in my post that in some wierd-late game situations it could be useful. Nevertheless, I think I spoke too harshly against since it was being proposed as more of a strategy rather then a very situation-specific reaction.
Anyways here are my 2 cents:
First off, I feel it is besides the point to discuss whether stasising SCVs is beneficial, if protoss already has a large advantage. I am assuming this is a close-game situation.
Secondly, it has already been mentioned that stasised SCV's that are mining/returning-cargo form an impenetrable wall. So this is obviously useful if you need that (recall and stasis scvs on ramp that are running away).
Moving on, the conditions under which I believe stasising scvs is useful:
If the 3 conditions below are true then it is imo useful to stasis SCVs that are mining at Terran's base:
1.) Terran does not have a large enough army to stomp all over yours. In this case, I think it is much more important to ensure that you have stasis ready for his units in the event of a battle that would take away your map-control and lose you the game. A successful stasis of SCVs in this case could very well prompt terran to attack since he has an economic disadvantage and you have less stasis to cripple his army.
2.) Terran either has a 1-base economy OR it happens to be the majority of his SCVs (maybe they had just been moved to that base and are all clustered). Basically, it has to have a significant effect on terrans economy.
3.) For some reason you cannot storm/reaver drop the scvs. For example, turrets/goliaths are protecting them, so the only way to damage the economy is to cast a stasis from afar. Or maybe you just don't have any stormers/reavers handy.
In such a situation a well placed stasis would just slow down terran from building up his army to attack you and you would gain an advantage while your arbiter recharges energy for his delayed push.
Other situations:
Your arbiter luckily stumbles across a large group of SCVs being transferred and you can't really destroy them for some reason (maybe it's behind some defences). Also, this should be in a situation were that stasis won't be needed in a do-or-die battle with terran's army. Also, this should be a situation in which you know terran's economy will be altered significantly by the stasis.
Carriers? Stasis is most important imo in freezing terran's mech army in a ground battle. Maybe if you have a bunch of carriers with some extra arbiters. Terran might have 1-heavily gol/turret fortified base that is active and it is supplying him with extra goliaths. You can't really attack it, but you could stasis his SCVs from afar.
Anyways, I apologize for being overly critical of the strategy
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Heh I actually got bored and tried this on my newbie D- friend at the end when I had extra energy left. It really sucks imho =_=;
The scvs really have to be extremely clumped somehow as a normal formation can only be stasised up to like maybe 5-6 at most which isn't exactly worth the energy spent >_>; It's not like the huge ice cubes block off the other mining SCVs either, they go straight through them.
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On July 22 2009 10:12 theobsessed1 wrote:
Heh I actually got bored and tried this on my newbie D- friend at the end when I had extra energy left. It really sucks imho =_=;
The scvs really have to be extremely clumped somehow as a normal formation can only be stasised up to like maybe 5-6 at most which isn't exactly worth the energy spent >_>; It's not like the huge ice cubes block off the other mining SCVs either, they go straight through them.
oh snap girlfriend!
looks like some replays is probably gunna get posted.
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that's really cool. idk if ill ever eally get out the arbs while the T has 1 base but if i do this will be very helpful. tyvm
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On July 22 2009 10:02 ultramagnetics wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2009 02:28 l10f wrote:....EDITED .... On July 10 2009 10:05 ultramagnetics wrote:
Stasising SCVs is an absolutely horrible strategy. On July 10 2009 14:16 SlayerS_`HackeR` wrote:
WTF are you saying? Freezing SCVs is an "absolutely horrible strategy."
Stasis lasts for a helluva long time, and it can jack potentially hundreds of minerals.
When you're looking for advice, watch out for people who don't know what they're talking about.
Freezing tanks/vessels < Freezing SCVs < Recall 2. Is it really worth it? When I tried using stasis on workers mining (about 20 of them on a 9-patch base) I found two interesting things. First, if a worker is stasised while mining a patch, no other worker can mine from that patch until the stasis is over. This means that if you can stasis four workers working on four different patches at once, those four patches are un-mineable until the stasis is over. Second, if a worker with a "gather" or "return cargo" command gets stasised, they can't be moved by using workers and "gather" command, like the terrans do when their entrance is blocked by stasised zealot or dragoon, and they want to get their units up the ramp. By using these two facts to your advantage, I believe it is sometimes worth it to stasis the workers. If you can stasis multiple workers mining multiple different patches, it might be worth it to reduce their mine-able patches when playing on a low economy. Also, it might be worth it to bring a probe in your recall, tell it to mine a mineral and freeze it on the ramp, that way they can't be moved by using scvs, and you can demolish their main base :D Another small thing I found while doing this experiment is that if you stasis a worker mining a patch, when they come out of the stasis, they will be done mining and will be holding a mineral chunk no matter how long they were mining the patch before the stasis was used. Not very useful, but interesting. Since I am being quoted, I have the urge to respond. First off, I did mention in my post that in some wierd-late game situations it could be useful. Nevertheless, I think I spoke too harshly against since it was being proposed as more of a strategy rather then a very situation-specific reaction. Anyways here are my 2 cents: First off, I feel it is besides the point to discuss whether stasising SCVs is beneficial, if protoss already has a large advantage. I am assuming this is a close-game situation. Secondly, it has already been mentioned that stasised SCV's that are mining/returning-cargo form an impenetrable wall. So this is obviously useful if you need that (recall and stasis scvs on ramp that are running away). Moving on, the conditions under which I believe stasising scvs is useful: If the 3 conditions below are true then it is imo useful to stasis SCVs that are mining at Terran's base: 1.) Terran does not have a large enough army to stomp all over yours. In this case, I think it is much more important to ensure that you have stasis ready for his units in the event of a battle that would take away your map-control and lose you the game. A successful stasis of SCVs in this case could very well prompt terran to attack since he has an economic disadvantage and you have less stasis to cripple his army. 2.) Terran either has a 1-base economy OR it happens to be the majority of his SCVs (maybe they had just been moved to that base and are all clustered). Basically, it has to have a significant effect on terrans economy. 3.) For some reason you cannot storm/reaver drop the scvs. For example, turrets/goliaths are protecting them, so the only way to damage the economy is to cast a stasis from afar. Or maybe you just don't have any stormers/reavers handy. In such a situation a well placed stasis would just slow down terran from building up his army to attack you and you would gain an advantage while your arbiter recharges energy for his delayed push. Other situations: Your arbiter luckily stumbles across a large group of SCVs being transferred and you can't really destroy them for some reason (maybe it's behind some defences). Also, this should be in a situation were that stasis won't be needed in a do-or-die battle with terran's army. Also, this should be a situation in which you know terran's economy will be altered significantly by the stasis. Carriers? Stasis is most important imo in freezing terran's mech army in a ground battle. Maybe if you have a bunch of carriers with some extra arbiters. Terran might have 1-heavily gol/turret fortified base that is active and it is supplying him with extra goliaths. You can't really attack it, but you could stasis his SCVs from afar. Anyways, I apologize for being overly critical of the strategy
I think we all agree that the un-moveable stasis block is wayy more useful than trying to hurt the opponent's economy when it comes to using stasis on workers.
P.S. I just pulled out two random names that agreed/disagreed, didn't mean to give any offense to the people that I quoted.
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On July 22 2009 10:12 theobsessed1 wrote:
Heh I actually got bored and tried this on my newbie D- friend at the end when I had extra energy left. It really sucks imho =_=;
The scvs really have to be extremely clumped somehow as a normal formation can only be stasised up to like maybe 5-6 at most which isn't exactly worth the energy spent >_>; It's not like the huge ice cubes block off the other mining SCVs either, they go straight through them.
well, in case you didn't read, the mineral patches the scvs were mining when stasised can't be mined by other workers while stasis lasts, even though the scvs go through the stasis'd scvs, they cannot mine the patch until stasis is over.
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interesting findings...and not difficult to apply!
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that probe statis thing is pretty cool to know, even if its often not worth the effort to pull it off
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What is to be not worth it? I mean you freeze there workers and knock off maybe 500-1000 minerals, so ya. Giant Reduction on their economy.
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a little off topic
on fastest, another way to avoid getting stormed is recalling the probes? i mean, its one spell anyways, have your arb in somewhere else in your base, and recall all those probes away, that way don't lose mining time. but it will take a while to get those 50 probes back to mining but still if your a little short on cash then its might not be bad.
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The fact that the scvs don't die really make it a waste. Psi dropping will always be better because terran have to PAY minerals to replace SCVs. Stasis doesn't last that long and 100 energy isn't something to just throw away like that. Shuttle/temp or wait for a recall to do much much greater damage. Stasising tanks on defense to storm a mineral line would be a better use of econ harassment stasising !_!
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On July 10 2009 14:16 SlayerS_`HackeR` wrote:
WTF are you saying? Freezing SCVs is an "absolutely horrible strategy."
Stasis lasts for a helluva long time, and it can jack potentially hundreds of minerals.
When you're looking for advice, watch out for people who don't know what they're talking about.
Freezing tanks/vessels < Freezing SCVs < Recall
What a friggin' idiot. Nice find in the OP, but this kid gave horrible advice, and it's ironic because he's one of the poeple that "don't know what they're talking about."
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I love it...thanks for finding this out. I hope this situation happens in a game for me. I'll definately post the rep!
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On July 22 2009 13:20 Undermine wrote:
What is to be not worth it? I mean you freeze there workers and knock off maybe 500-1000 minerals, so ya. Giant Reduction on their economy.
meanwhile terran gets pissed and goes and kills 2000minerals + buncha gas worth of units and roflstomps
even bigger reduction on your economy :X (oh and you lost 100 energy that you coulda used to stasis that army instead of scvs that are no protected from harassment)
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On July 22 2009 12:27 Mystlord wrote:The probes on the ramp will probably get sniped before they can be effective at all though  It'll probably be more useful if the Terran is moving his SCVs, but by the time you land a recall in his main, it'll be all mined out and he'll probably just sacrifice whatever SCVs are left there. Neat trick though.
Thats a good point however if the arb is there with them then the T has to scan first unless he has a turret there. And if he is moving his workers wouldnt it be easier to stasis his than yours after a recall? It might be too late to get his workers though since it probably would be mined out unless you go for a really quick arb. Before taking your third.
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Terran also have the ability to draw games out better than Protoss. Simply halting mining isn't good enough. All the minerals are still there waiting to be mined, just a short 15-20 second delay? Not a big deal at all, especially considering you don't know how much Terran has banked at the moment. If they are floating 1k then it may not effect them at all in the slightest. It would pretty much always be better to stasis more of their attacking units so your army takes less damage thus saving you more minerals comparitively.
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
added images for better understanding to the op :D
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On July 22 2009 03:15 houseurmusic wrote:
be funny if someone used this strat on fastest
i've seen it used to save workers, someone came in with several drop ship sand guy status his workers to save em lol
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Actually I think that bringing probes to block the ramp is a bit of a break-through. You could essentially kill everything in a terrans main if you recall a second arbiter in with it. It's a pretty expensive recall but you would have 3 stasis' worth of time to ravage the terrans base. I'd imagine a terran could siege a tank or two just in range of the probes so that they instantly die as soon as they pop out of stasis however. Atleast I'm pretty sure you can't re-stasis while they are already stasised?
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On July 23 2009 01:39 Adeny wrote:
Actually I think that bringing probes to block the ramp is a bit of a break-through. You could essentially kill everything in a terrans main if you recall a second arbiter in with it. It's a pretty expensive recall but you would have 3 stasis' worth of time to ravage the terrans base. I'd imagine a terran could siege a tank or two just in range of the probes so that they instantly die as soon as they pop out of stasis however. Atleast I'm pretty sure you can't re-stasis while they are already stasised?
that is correct, you can't re-stasis during a stasis
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Im surprised that we are still finding out stuff about sc 11 years after its release LOL
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On July 23 2009 01:48 Leath wrote:
Im surprised that we are still finding out stuff about sc 11 years after its release LOL
I'm sure we're not done yet =]
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I read this the other day. Very interesting, thanks for sharing!
I didn't know that if you stasised workers mining patches you can't mine that mineral...=o
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what's next lockdown on probes? lol jk interesting op though
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I played a game once where the guy sacrificed a shuttle to drop a zealot in my main, where i had no units... i gathered all my scvs to the mineral patch closest to the lot (to attack it) and they were stasis'd
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On July 23 2009 14:27 synapse wrote:I played a game once where the guy sacrificed a shuttle to drop a zealot in my main, where i had no units... i gathered all my scvs to the mineral patch closest to the lot (to attack it) and they were stasis'd
ya thats what i was thinking, maybe a fake storm or a harass on one side, with arb at the other to stasis when he tries to run scvs out/stack. and if he does run scvs out then you can stasis on the ramp and recall in his main if you have 250 energy
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That's freaking crazy. Good find!
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Minerals lost in one stasis per patch
Saturated patch
1.5 m/t x 70 t = 105 minerals
Unsaturated patch
0.68 m/t x 70 t = 47.6 minerals
Therefore if you stasis n saturated patches they will lose 105n minerals. Unsaturated patches (one worker per patch) would be around 50n minerals.
The opportunity cost
You can't stasis gas, and I can't really convert minerals to gas, but let's assume a tank is worth 250 minerals. If you can stasis two tanks (and hopefully kill them afterwards), you have to stasis 5 saturated patches or 10 unsaturated patches to match that.
I'm guessing you can stasis at most 4 to 5 mineral patches if you're lucky.
So if you can stasis over 400-500 resources of units, you're better off doing that. If you end up stasising one tank and a vulture, you would arguably be better off stasising saturated mineral patches. Stasising unsaturated patches is a terribly idea.
Source:
Terran vs Protoss Optimal Gas Usage
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=97792
There might be a problem with their numbers.
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Great stuff ... good to see ideas not immediately tossed aside.
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Q: what happens if you try to stasis a SCV constructing a building? Can you cancel the building? Halt it and resume with another SCV? Imagine a situation where terran is expanding, you stasis the SCV building the CC and T cant do a thing but wait for it to unfreeze.
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Wow. That's some damn good research. Well done, dude :D
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Having arbiters ready to statis incoming harass is pretty standard lategame. Stasising your own probe at that point is good because it's not really about losing money, rather it's a bitch to rebuild them because your wasting apm not spamming units =P
Me and two friends played around in public fastest 3v3 alot and if we played against atleast one zerg we usally did this strategy unless the game went nuts in the early skirmishes...
One goes massgate DT, one goes cannons corsairs and the third guy goes mutas and overlords everywhere.
Plan is to use corsairs + overlords to deny detection and constantly rape their zerg with muta/cors.
Anyways the protoss that went for DT follows up with alot of arbiter gayness and that guy was me and you can do alot of crazy things
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Whoa, now I know to recall a mineral holding probe with me everytime.
SICKKKK. Never stop learning SC stuffs - -;;
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On July 25 2009 22:14 [GMTA]_HumBug wrote:
Q: what happens if you try to stasis a SCV constructing a building? Can you cancel the building? Halt it and resume with another SCV? Imagine a situation where terran is expanding, you stasis the SCV building the CC and T cant do a thing but wait for it to unfreeze.
Just tested this out, you can't continue construction until the SCV is unfrozen, trying to put another SCV on it does nothing, you can however still cancel the building.
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On July 25 2009 22:14 [GMTA]_HumBug wrote:
Q: what happens if you try to stasis a SCV constructing a building? Can you cancel the building? Halt it and resume with another SCV? Imagine a situation where terran is expanding, you stasis the SCV building the CC and T cant do a thing but wait for it to unfreeze.
You can cancel the building, but you can't halt construction to allow another worker to finish building it.
EDIT: Jello beat me to the punch 
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On July 26 2009 00:25 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2009 22:14 [GMTA]_HumBug wrote:
Q: what happens if you try to stasis a SCV constructing a building? Can you cancel the building? Halt it and resume with another SCV? Imagine a situation where terran is expanding, you stasis the SCV building the CC and T cant do a thing but wait for it to unfreeze. Just tested this out, you can't continue construction until the SCV is unfrozen, trying to put another SCV on it does nothing, you can however still cancel the building.
Added it to the op - Thanks!
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Hi isnt the game FBH vs Anytime not FBH vs Much?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l242/highguy424/SCScrnShot_072209_121305.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l242/highguy424/SCScrnShot_072209_121334.jpg)
