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First brought up by the Python mining rates thread, it has come to my attention that SCV's mine at "curious" rates. Unlike probes and drones, SCVs have slower acceleration, causing slower mining rates and bad worker vs worker combatting (fortunately, SCVs have 20 more HP).
A "10 Gate" exists because even though an "11 Gate" is possible, a probe's mining is interrupted while the 11th probe is building, in order to get the gateway up as soon as possible, and ultimately have offense in your opponent's base as fast as possible.
While SCVs are mining, they often decelerate, especially when travelling straight paths. I have discovered that deceleration can actually be denied when gathering, by individually targetting the further minerals, then retargetting to the close mineral patch when the SCV gets close enough. If enough SCVs have denied deceleration, I believe it can make as big of a difference - probably bigger though - than a "10 Gate" would to an "11 Gate."
edit: and i just checked a flash fpvod he doesn't do this.. actually i think most progamers dont do this at all
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Huh people already do this for patches that are lodged in and are up top or something so scv doesn't slow turn the corner, and I think pros do this time to time to speed it up but they don't really focus on it.
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On May 12 2009 07:26 SlayerS_`HackeR` wrote:First brought up by the Python mining rates thread, it has come to my attention that SCV's mine at "curious" rates. Unlike probes and drones, SCVs have slower acceleration, causing slower mining rates and bad worker vs worker combatting (fortunately, SCVs have 20 more HP). A "10 Gate" exists because even though an "11 Gate" is possible, a probe's mining is interrupted while the 11th probe is building, in order to get the gateway up as soon as possible, and ultimately have offense in your opponent's base as fast as possible. While SCVs are mining, they often decelerate, especially when travelling straight paths. I have discovered that deceleration can actually be denied when gathering, by individually targetting the further minerals, then retargetting to the close mineral patch when the SCV gets close enough. If enough SCVs have denied deceleration, I believe it can make as big of a difference - probably bigger though - than a "10 Gate" would to an "11 Gate."
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU MAN!
I was saving my 2000th post to make a small guide on this.
I discovered this like a year ago, but kept it to myself to 'have an edge'.
Just the other day I figured I might as well share it with people, and perhaps one day soon see a pro player do it in a live match.
On average, by doing what you said up there, you can accelerate mining by approximately 9%.
I only tested the exact numbers when minerals are on the left side of the CC.
It's possible that the acceleration percentage varies if minerals are bottom/right/up from the CC.
Damn, it's so funny that you posted this today, coz I started making a post today and then got interrupted and canceled for today.
btw. I believe in all that global conscienceness thing...
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On May 12 2009 07:34 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 07:26 SlayerS_`HackeR` wrote:First brought up by the Python mining rates thread, it has come to my attention that SCV's mine at "curious" rates. Unlike probes and drones, SCVs have slower acceleration, causing slower mining rates and bad worker vs worker combatting (fortunately, SCVs have 20 more HP). A "10 Gate" exists because even though an "11 Gate" is possible, a probe's mining is interrupted while the 11th probe is building, in order to get the gateway up as soon as possible, and ultimately have offense in your opponent's base as fast as possible. While SCVs are mining, they often decelerate, especially when travelling straight paths. I have discovered that deceleration can actually be denied when gathering, by individually targetting the further minerals, then retargetting to the close mineral patch when the SCV gets close enough. If enough SCVs have denied deceleration, I believe it can make as big of a difference - probably bigger though - than a "10 Gate" would to an "11 Gate." AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU MAN! I was saving my 2000th post to make a small guide on this. I discovered this like a year ago, but kept it to myself to 'have an edge'. Just the other day I figured I might as well share it with people, and perhaps one day soon see a pro player do it in a live match. On average, by doing what you said up there, you can accelerate mining by approximately 9%. I only tested the exact numbers when minerals are on the left side of the CC. It's possible that the acceleration percentage varies if minerals are bottom/right/up from the CC. Damn, it's so funny that you posted this today, coz I started making a post today and then got interrupted and canceled for today. btw. I believe in all that global conscienceness thing...
haha well i can ask a mod to delete this thread, but you got your 200th already
and i don't think mining necessarily increases by 9%; if it did, pro's would definitely use this all the time. if you get a full house of the minerals, then each mineral would be being mined almost all the time, so this tactic stops working after a few minutes
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protoss mining has the smoothest animation
terran mining has the clumped up animation
zerg mining is the slowest
but animation doesnt matter, what matters is the mechanics
so basically, all workers of all 3 races have same mining speeds, unless proven otherwise by a blizzard employee.
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konadora
Singapore66358 Posts
I think someone brought this up in a thread, asking why Progamers tend to do that (MBCGame side's FPView in the first few minutes)
But yeah, SCVs are weird weird units.
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On May 12 2009 07:38 SlayerS_`HackeR` wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 07:34 niteReloaded wrote:On May 12 2009 07:26 SlayerS_`HackeR` wrote:First brought up by the Python mining rates thread, it has come to my attention that SCV's mine at "curious" rates. Unlike probes and drones, SCVs have slower acceleration, causing slower mining rates and bad worker vs worker combatting (fortunately, SCVs have 20 more HP). A "10 Gate" exists because even though an "11 Gate" is possible, a probe's mining is interrupted while the 11th probe is building, in order to get the gateway up as soon as possible, and ultimately have offense in your opponent's base as fast as possible. While SCVs are mining, they often decelerate, especially when travelling straight paths. I have discovered that deceleration can actually be denied when gathering, by individually targetting the further minerals, then retargetting to the close mineral patch when the SCV gets close enough. If enough SCVs have denied deceleration, I believe it can make as big of a difference - probably bigger though - than a "10 Gate" would to an "11 Gate." AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU MAN! I was saving my 2000th post to make a small guide on this. I discovered this like a year ago, but kept it to myself to 'have an edge'. Just the other day I figured I might as well share it with people, and perhaps one day soon see a pro player do it in a live match. On average, by doing what you said up there, you can accelerate mining by approximately 9%. I only tested the exact numbers when minerals are on the left side of the CC. It's possible that the acceleration percentage varies if minerals are bottom/right/up from the CC. Damn, it's so funny that you posted this today, coz I started making a post today and then got interrupted and canceled for today. btw. I believe in all that global conscienceness thing... haha well i can ask a mod to delete this thread, but you got your 200th already and i don't think mining necessarily increases by 9%; if it did, pro's would definitely use this all the time. if you get a full house of the minerals, then each mineral would be being mined almost all the time, so this tactic stops working after a few minutes
It does increase 9%, but what I'm talking about is 9% for the SCV you are microing, not the entire mining sum of course.
There are some spawning locations where there are 3 mineral patches that can be microed like this, so you get 3 SCVs that mine at ~9% higher rate.
For example, this can sometimes (location dependant) allow you keep your SCV production going even around that critical area around making the first supply, when it's standard to either not produce SCVs for a few seconds OR to be be stuck on supply for a few seconds.
On May 12 2009 07:40 Disintegrate wrote:
protoss mining has the smoothest animation
terran mining has the clumped up animation
zerg mining is the slowest
but animation doesnt matter, what matters is the mechanics
so basically, all workers of all 3 races have same mining speeds, unless proven otherwise by a blizzard employee.
Does it take a blizzard employee to use the ingame timer from replays, and keep your eyes on the mineral count?
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Actually, if you time it right, you can just click on the close mineral patch. You can also click on the cc and it'll return them normally. I do this sometimes in the beginning, I always get 104 minerals at 9 supply and everything will be just a bit faster. It definitely won't hurt, and is far more useful than just spamming.
On May 12 2009 07:40 Disintegrate wrote:
protoss mining has the smoothest animation
terran mining has the clumped up animation
zerg mining is the slowest
but animation doesnt matter, what matters is the mechanics
so basically, all workers of all 3 races have same mining speeds, unless proven otherwise by a blizzard employee.
It's been proven many times that Probes > Drones > SCVs in mining. But SCVs mine almost as fast as probes if they're being microed manually, and actually mine some patches even faster since they're strange sometimes.
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Hmm i noticed that some pros do some spam where they select their workers early on in the game. What exactly are they doing and what is that for?
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and i don't think mining necessarily increases by 9%; if it did, pro's would definitely use this all the time. if you get a full house of the minerals, then each mineral would be being mined almost all the time, so this tactic stops working after a few minutes
I swear I have seen Jangbi use this on his probes in a FPDVOD.
Pros do cycle the workings from mineral patch to mineral patch to have the best mining efficiency. You just can't do it for very long because it takes up multitasking time
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[QUOTE]On May 12 2009 07:40 Disintegrate wrote:
protoss mining has the smoothest animation
terran mining has the clumped up animation
zerg mining is the slowest
but animation doesnt matter, what matters is the mechanics
so basically, all workers of all 3 races have same mining speeds, unless proven otherwise by a blizzard employee.[/QUOTE]
all three races workers have the same attack range too 
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On May 12 2009 08:07 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 07:40 Disintegrate wrote:
protoss mining has the smoothest animation
terran mining has the clumped up animation
zerg mining is the slowest
but animation doesnt matter, what matters is the mechanics
[b]so basically, all workers of all 3 races have same mining speeds, unless proven otherwise by a blizzard employee.[b] all three races workers have the same attack range too
Don't SCV's do melee attack and probes and drones do ranged?
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On May 12 2009 08:09 Marine50 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 08:07 arb wrote:On May 12 2009 07:40 Disintegrate wrote:
protoss mining has the smoothest animation
terran mining has the clumped up animation
zerg mining is the slowest
but animation doesnt matter, what matters is the mechanics
so basically, all workers of all 3 races have same mining speeds, unless proven otherwise by a blizzard employee. all three races workers have the same attack range too Don't SCV's do melee attack and probes and drones do ranged?
SCVs do ranged attack... It's pretty obvious from the animation, isn't it?
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Drone attack animation ends faster so you can hit and pull faster but SCV can spam right click and attack fastest I think. I dunno this type of stuff doesn't really help you improve too much on iCC 
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On May 12 2009 08:11 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 08:09 Marine50 wrote:On May 12 2009 08:07 arb wrote:On May 12 2009 07:40 Disintegrate wrote:
protoss mining has the smoothest animation
terran mining has the clumped up animation
zerg mining is the slowest
but animation doesnt matter, what matters is the mechanics
so basically, all workers of all 3 races have same mining speeds, unless proven otherwise by a blizzard employee. all three races workers have the same attack range too Don't SCV's do melee attack and probes and drones do ranged? SCVs do ranged attack... It's pretty obvious from the animation, isn't it?
Maybe..You can interpret that animation in a few ways
They do melee attack imo. Its their fusion cutter they use for mining. Its melee
I remember tasteless saying SCVs do melee while drones can do ranged in a tvz game also
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United States17042 Posts
None of them work under swarm, which is what actually matters. The range on all of them is about the same. Probes accelerate faster, which is what allows them to be used for harassment the most effectively. SCV's are bulky, and are used to wall off for marines because of it. Drones are so important and lings are so cheap that .you fight off with drones only as a last resort.
SCV's mine faster by a decent amount when microed. I believe boxer used to do it, and jangbi does it as well when he has time. The difference for probes is very small compared to the difference for SCV's (SCV's mine significantly faster when you micro them next to the mineral patch to prevent deacceleration, and then micro them next to the cc to prevent deacceleration). Doing it for more than one SCV is almost impossible, at least for me. Also, if you do this it's tough to make sure that they don't glitch as you micro them (if they stack and you click them anywhere else, it'll take long enough for them to get unstuck that you have no advantage whatsoever).
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On May 12 2009 08:21 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
None of them work under swarm, which is what actually matters. The range on all of them is about the same. Probes accelerate faster, which is what allows them to be used for harassment the most effectively. SCV's are bulky, and are used to wall off for marines because of it. Drones are so important and lings are so cheap that .you fight off with drones only as a last resort.
SCV's mine faster by a decent amount when microed. I believe boxer used to do it, and jangbi does it as well when he has time. The difference for probes is very small compared to the difference for SCV's (SCV's mine significantly faster when you micro them next to the mineral patch to prevent deacceleration, and then micro them next to the cc to prevent deacceleration). Doing it for more than one SCV is almost impossible, at least for me. Also, if you do this it's tough to make sure that they don't glitch as you micro them (if they stack and you click them anywhere else, it'll take long enough for them to get unstuck that you have no advantage whatsoever).
It only works when you micro them to minerals. You cant really micro them to the CC because you dont have 2 CCs (one closer, one farther). If you try to micro them by moving them close to the CC and then right-clicking the CC, it will cause them to stutter and slow them down because they have to alternate between moving command and gathering command.
Also, I can usually micro 3 scvs this way, I use hotkeys tho.
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On May 12 2009 08:14 Marine50 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 08:11 Shikyo wrote:On May 12 2009 08:09 Marine50 wrote:On May 12 2009 08:07 arb wrote:On May 12 2009 07:40 Disintegrate wrote:
protoss mining has the smoothest animation
terran mining has the clumped up animation
zerg mining is the slowest
but animation doesnt matter, what matters is the mechanics
so basically, all workers of all 3 races have same mining speeds, unless proven otherwise by a blizzard employee. all three races workers have the same attack range too Don't SCV's do melee attack and probes and drones do ranged? SCVs do ranged attack... It's pretty obvious from the animation, isn't it? Maybe..You can interpret that animation in a few ways They do melee attack imo. Its their fusion cutter they use for mining. Its melee I remember tasteless saying SCVs do melee while drones can do ranged in a tvz game also
this is wrong
if you attack with scvs under a dark swarm they don't do damage
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On May 12 2009 07:26 SlayerS_`HackeR` wrote:
I have discovered that deceleration can actually be denied when gathering, by individually targetting the further minerals, then retargetting to the close mineral patch when the SCV gets close enough.
Errrm... I'm sorry but you didn't exactly discover this. I was pretty sure this was an obvious fact, due to the fact that this works with units other than SCVs(I.E Muta/wraith micro. You click far away so your unit doesn't decelerate).
Or at least this seemed pretty obvious to me. Personally I don't actually do it because I'm just extremely lazy when it comes to some things, and although it may get you another set of minerals .5 second faster, I don't find it game changing.
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EPT
