On May 12 2009 08:21 GHOSTCLAW wrote: None of them work under swarm, which is what actually matters. The range on all of them is about the same. Probes accelerate faster, which is what allows them to be used for harassment the most effectively. SCV's are bulky, and are used to wall off for marines because of it. Drones are so important and lings are so cheap that .you fight off with drones only as a last resort.
SCV's mine faster by a decent amount when microed. I believe boxer used to do it, and jangbi does it as well when he has time. The difference for probes is very small compared to the difference for SCV's (SCV's mine significantly faster when you micro them next to the mineral patch to prevent deacceleration, and then micro them next to the cc to prevent deacceleration). Doing it for more than one SCV is almost impossible, at least for me. Also, if you do this it's tough to make sure that they don't glitch as you micro them (if they stack and you click them anywhere else, it'll take long enough for them to get unstuck that you have no advantage whatsoever).
It only works when you micro them to minerals. You cant really micro them to the CC because you dont have 2 CCs (one closer, one farther). If you try to micro them by moving them close to the CC and then right-clicking the CC, it will cause them to stutter and slow them down because they have to alternate between moving command and gathering command.
Also, I can usually micro 3 scvs this way, I use hotkeys tho.
I think if the paths don't cross then you can path the scv manually such that it gets right next to the cc without deaccelerating, and then you can tell the scv to return cargo. If it's right next to the cc, it'll return the minerals without any deacceleration.
I'm a P player though, feel free to tell me that i'm completely wrong.
On May 12 2009 08:21 GHOSTCLAW wrote: None of them work under swarm, which is what actually matters. The range on all of them is about the same. Probes accelerate faster, which is what allows them to be used for harassment the most effectively. SCV's are bulky, and are used to wall off for marines because of it. Drones are so important and lings are so cheap that .you fight off with drones only as a last resort.
SCV's mine faster by a decent amount when microed. I believe boxer used to do it, and jangbi does it as well when he has time. The difference for probes is very small compared to the difference for SCV's (SCV's mine significantly faster when you micro them next to the mineral patch to prevent deacceleration, and then micro them next to the cc to prevent deacceleration). Doing it for more than one SCV is almost impossible, at least for me. Also, if you do this it's tough to make sure that they don't glitch as you micro them (if they stack and you click them anywhere else, it'll take long enough for them to get unstuck that you have no advantage whatsoever).
It only works when you micro them to minerals. You cant really micro them to the CC because you dont have 2 CCs (one closer, one farther). If you try to micro them by moving them close to the CC and then right-clicking the CC, it will cause them to stutter and slow them down because they have to alternate between moving command and gathering command.
Also, I can usually micro 3 scvs this way, I use hotkeys tho.
I think if the paths don't cross then you can path the scv manually such that it gets right next to the cc without deaccelerating, and then you can tell the scv to return cargo. If it's right next to the cc, it'll return the minerals without any deacceleration.
I'm a P player though, feel free to tell me that i'm completely wrong.
Yea, I'm not sure about probes, but I know that SCVs start 'lagging' if you tell right click them on the ground while they hold minerals. (prolly because of changing the command from gathering to moving) This doesn't happen when you micro them towards minerals, because you first tell them to gather farther mineral and then switch to closer mineral so it's the same type of command.
They stop for a millisecond or so if you micro them towards CC.
Can someone please restate how this is done. If I understand correctly, you can only do this when there is a mineral patch furthur away from the cc than the one you wish to mine. You tell the scv to mine the far one and then switch to the 'real' one when he gets very close?
On May 12 2009 07:40 Disintegrate wrote: protoss mining has the smoothest animation
terran mining has the clumped up animation
zerg mining is the slowest
but animation doesnt matter, what matters is the mechanics
so basically, all workers of all 3 races have same mining speeds, unless proven otherwise by a blizzard employee.
all three races workers have the same attack range too
Don't SCV's do melee attack and probes and drones do ranged?
SCVs do ranged attack... It's pretty obvious from the animation, isn't it?
Maybe..You can interpret that animation in a few ways
They do melee attack imo. Its their fusion cutter they use for mining. Its melee
I remember tasteless saying SCVs do melee while drones can do ranged in a tvz game also
No, I was being sarcastic. The attack looks like melee and it should be melee since it has no range at all, but the attack is ranged.
And I remember tasteless calling attack move -> move -> attack move -> move etc micro with goliaths "hold position micro", when hold position does nothing for Goliaths. Take everything he says with a grain of salt.
On May 12 2009 08:21 GHOSTCLAW wrote: None of them work under swarm, which is what actually matters. The range on all of them is about the same. Probes accelerate faster, which is what allows them to be used for harassment the most effectively. SCV's are bulky, and are used to wall off for marines because of it. Drones are so important and lings are so cheap that .you fight off with drones only as a last resort.
SCV's mine faster by a decent amount when microed. I believe boxer used to do it, and jangbi does it as well when he has time. The difference for probes is very small compared to the difference for SCV's (SCV's mine significantly faster when you micro them next to the mineral patch to prevent deacceleration, and then micro them next to the cc to prevent deacceleration). Doing it for more than one SCV is almost impossible, at least for me. Also, if you do this it's tough to make sure that they don't glitch as you micro them (if they stack and you click them anywhere else, it'll take long enough for them to get unstuck that you have no advantage whatsoever).
It only works when you micro them to minerals. You cant really micro them to the CC because you dont have 2 CCs (one closer, one farther). If you try to micro them by moving them close to the CC and then right-clicking the CC, it will cause them to stutter and slow them down because they have to alternate between moving command and gathering command.
Also, I can usually micro 3 scvs this way, I use hotkeys tho.
Incorrect. With the correct timing, you can directly click the command center and you'll return the cargo there directly without slowing down at all. I used to click the ground and then the cc afterwards(works too), but you can just click the command center and it works. Same for minerals, with the correct timing you can just click on a mineral patch and it goes there without deacceleration. With about 300apm and accurate clicking you can probably micro every SCV on problem patches like this, there are normally about 4 patches with really messed up mining. And it does make a difference, enough to have, say, 1 or 2 more marines out at a 6:50 timing or something similiar.
To maximise early game mining, you can also get SCVs to mine the most efficient mineral patches.
Say patch 1 is a good patch and patch 2 is a patch that is further away. SCV from patch 1 is just done mining, and is returning minerals to CC. SCV from patch 2 has just returned minerals to CC and is returning to mine at patch 2. You get that SCV to go mine at patch 1, and then give the command to the other SCV to mine at patch 2. I'm not sure my explanation is good, but lovett does this quite a bit in the chinese fpvod bnet attack thing that is up on youtube.
On May 12 2009 19:19 Muff2n wrote: Can someone please restate how this is done. If I understand correctly, you can only do this when there is a mineral patch furthur away from the cc than the one you wish to mine. You tell the scv to mine the far one and then switch to the 'real' one when he gets very close?
Yea, that's basically the gist of it.
Another way you can do it is to keep right-clicking on the mineral patch you want to mine until the SCV is directly next to the patch.
Whichever way you do it, the goal is to stop the SCV from decelerating before it starts mining, which is what happens if you don't do anything. You'll see the difference when you do it correctly.
On May 13 2009 10:55 ghermination wrote: if you have 5000 apm, please by all means micro every single worker in your multiple mineral lines. For the rest of us...
Seriously, people pointless spam apm up to like 500. It takes like 20 apm to micro every single worker. Probably not even 20. Most apm in any given situation in SPAM, so it doesn't take much pure eapm to micro every single worker... a newb could do it using hotkeys
On May 12 2009 19:19 Muff2n wrote: Can someone please restate how this is done. If I understand correctly, you can only do this when there is a mineral patch furthur away from the cc than the one you wish to mine. You tell the scv to mine the far one and then switch to the 'real' one when he gets very close?
Yea, that's basically the gist of it.
Another way you can do it is to keep right-clicking on the mineral patch you want to mine until the SCV is directly next to the patch.
Whichever way you do it, the goal is to stop the SCV from decelerating before it starts mining, which is what happens if you don't do anything. You'll see the difference when you do it correctly.
On May 12 2009 08:21 GHOSTCLAW wrote: None of them work under swarm, which is what actually matters. The range on all of them is about the same. Probes accelerate faster, which is what allows them to be used for harassment the most effectively. SCV's are bulky, and are used to wall off for marines because of it. Drones are so important and lings are so cheap that .you fight off with drones only as a last resort.
SCV's mine faster by a decent amount when microed. I believe boxer used to do it, and jangbi does it as well when he has time. The difference for probes is very small compared to the difference for SCV's (SCV's mine significantly faster when you micro them next to the mineral patch to prevent deacceleration, and then micro them next to the cc to prevent deacceleration). Doing it for more than one SCV is almost impossible, at least for me. Also, if you do this it's tough to make sure that they don't glitch as you micro them (if they stack and you click them anywhere else, it'll take long enough for them to get unstuck that you have no advantage whatsoever).
It only works when you micro them to minerals. You cant really micro them to the CC because you dont have 2 CCs (one closer, one farther). If you try to micro them by moving them close to the CC and then right-clicking the CC, it will cause them to stutter and slow them down because they have to alternate between moving command and gathering command.
Also, I can usually micro 3 scvs this way, I use hotkeys tho.
Incorrect. With the correct timing, you can directly click the command center and you'll return the cargo there directly without slowing down at all. I used to click the ground and then the cc afterwards(works too), but you can just click the command center and it works. Same for minerals, with the correct timing you can just click on a mineral patch and it goes there without deacceleration. With about 300apm and accurate clicking you can probably micro every SCV on problem patches like this, there are normally about 4 patches with really messed up mining. And it does make a difference, enough to have, say, 1 or 2 more marines out at a 6:50 timing or something similiar.
Care to prove this?
Load up a game and show it to me.
Do it this way: - pick a map and a spawning location - as soon as the game starts, select the CC and make an SCV - don't send any of the first 4 SCVs to mine so that we have a clean plate to start with - with the 5th SCV mine 160 minerals as fast as possible
If you're correct about your microing towards CC, you should be able to do it much faster than I will.
On May 12 2009 08:14 SCC-AlwaysGG wrote: Drone attack animation ends faster so you can hit and pull faster but SCV can spam right click and attack fastest I think. I dunno this type of stuff doesn't really help you improve too much on iCC
SCV spam right click doesn't actually attack faster, it just plays the attack animation really quickly. They look like they're attacking faster but they really aren't.
On May 12 2009 08:14 SCC-AlwaysGG wrote: Drone attack animation ends faster so you can hit and pull faster but SCV can spam right click and attack fastest I think. I dunno this type of stuff doesn't really help you improve too much on iCC
SCV spam right click doesn't actually attack faster, it just plays the attack animation really quickly. They look like they're attacking faster but they really aren't.
I hope you didn't just pull this one out of your ass.
On May 12 2009 08:14 SCC-AlwaysGG wrote: Drone attack animation ends faster so you can hit and pull faster but SCV can spam right click and attack fastest I think. I dunno this type of stuff doesn't really help you improve too much on iCC
SCV spam right click doesn't actually attack faster, it just plays the attack animation really quickly. They look like they're attacking faster but they really aren't.
I hope you didn't just pull this one out of your ass.
On February 23 2009 06:25 Agro_Z wrote: T: -SCV's attack faster if you spam attack.
False. The animation appears faster but the attack rate is the same. I believe this has been thoroughly tested.
it's true
it's false, test it yourself dude.
its false. It just resets the AI so the scv doesn't pause when the worker runs away
It prevents hit and run from probe and drones.
On January 17 2008 01:12 mmmf[r]ogs wrote:
If you watch around 4:20, Upmagic seems to spam attack on the scouting scv with his scv. If you watch Upmagic's scv animation it looks like it was attacking faster than Canata's.
Edit: After looking at it a bit more closely, spamming attack doesn't seem to make a difference. TheFoReveRwaR's right, it just LOOKS faster.
a) all worker attacks count as ranged. b) the "range" is pretty much scv = 0, drone = 0.5, probe = 1 ... ever seen an scv attack through mineral patches? Here's the reason why probes can and scvs cant.
Because of the RANGE and the ACCELERATION you see different mining speed for different races on different maps / positions. I remember doing the work for Luna 1-2 years ago and checked all Mains/Expos to find out optimal numbers for each race in terms of workers per expo. If anyone is interested I'll try and find that stupid .txt. file :x
I remember that the "peak" for workers to make a patch efficient greatly differt because of these factors. For Terran e.g. you can try to force the workers via buildings or microing to engage minerals in an angle which makes them almost instaturn back from the CC (!), this is where they lose most of their speed. If you get them to the mineral from a correct angle via micro they will keep that angle until the mining AI gets activated again (e.g. some other worker mining there already) ... But, yeah. I remember the issue was to get an angle from which they instareturn back to the mins after returning minerals to the CC.
EPT
