[Q] Drone Production

On December 10 2008 06:54 Misrah wrote:
My fellow swarm, i come to you today because i am getting so tired of studying for a huge anatomy final, so to try and procrastinate and waste some time, I have decided to write this.

Now i would like to tell you before you read any further into this theoryguidypalooza that this is 100% conjecture. I have yet to fully test any of the below stated out, however i think that each and every one of you can understand wher i am coming from. Basically with zerg in the shitter right now, and all of our great's in deep deep slumps, zerg needs to try and do something to bring us back. A REVOLUTION! So i began thinking about this while listening to my rpofessor talk about the retro peritoneal properties of the renal cavities ext.

I digress.

*Please note, i am trying to break down this economic problem into a very very simple idea. So i am (for the time being) forgoing teching and all of that.*

So of the 3 races in SC zerg is by far the odd child. Our economy is weird. To say the least. Our production buildings produce our attacking units, and our drones all at the same time. The worthless Protoss and Terran have it easy, one building makes their SCV, probes and what not. So when playing any other race (besides zerg) your economy will go in a straight line. Always going up. The rule of thumb (while playing P or T) is to constantly build probes/scv's and you will always see a steady increase in economy. To increase your army size, all one must do is build barrax or gateways at a comparable rate to economic growth, for a constant production of zealots and marines. Simple? Yes. Really, your army and economy will grow at a proportional rate. (if you don't spend excess money on upgrades and tech.)

But back to the swarm. Once again we have hatcheries. NO CC's NO Nexus. Zerg has that unique ability to produce drones and lings at the same time. I have noticed that in every single zerg matuchup except zvz. IN Zvt and Zvp zerg will (when going for an economic game, ie not a two hatch or any type of tech game) will ALWAYS ALWAYS try and build as many drones as possible in the shortest amount of time. I have heard time and time again, the simple fact that if you stop producing mass drones in the early and early mid game, you will be economically behind. The hardest part about playing zerg is the simple fact, that a zerg player has to try and find balance.

By balance i am talking about the inverse relationship zerg economy has, when you decide to produce zerglings insted of drones. For example. Why build 12 lings, when only 2 are neccesary early game? Yes you may be trying a runby- but when you get right down to it, you are hurting your economy. The larve that are now lings, could have become drones. So the traight of a good zerg player is to always have the BARE MINIMUM of attacking units early game. That way, they can drone whore and stay on par with protoss and terran economy. Balance is key. Two few drones, no econ. Two many drones, no zerglings, and no defense.

Normally zerg players do the following in a normal (standard) Zvt and Zvp.
12 hatch
11 pool
13 hatch
and depending on the match up either T or P you can get a 4th hatch start gass ext.
after wards though, one thing is always clear. DRONE WHORE
in a standard 3hatch muta game vs Standard T a zerg player expects to have 35+ drones beofre his muta are compleated. However in order to achive this, the zerg player builds little to no lings- and suckens up. The Z is powering off of 3 hatch and going nuts.

BUT

What if this idea could be changed?

Here is really the bulk of my economic idea. If T and P players are always going to be a steadily increasing line (as far as economics and army size are concerned) Zerg is nothing but. Zerg can do anything (with enough hatcheries) Think about it. You can have 4 hatcheries with 3 larve at each. So that is 12 units you can create. INSTANTLY. no wait, just BAM, units. All at the same time, no waiting, no nothing. You can see the benefits of doing so very very quickly. For example, you can have all 4 of your hatcheries produce lings. And you have an INSTANT army. Or you can have all of them go drones. INSTANT economic benefit. You don't have to wait for your expos to kick in, you can have any expo saturated INSTANTLY. But of course at a price.

I was think about that above, and suddenly my idea hit me. Why oh why does zerg try and mirror protoss and terran? Why does zerg mirror the ever increasing line? A line? Fuck that. Zerg jumps. I remember when i watch players play zerg. Lets say they are taking their 3rd expo (in Zvt) so- once the expo pops, the first thing that is done, is have a drone build an extractor. You need the gas. Then have some of your drones from your Natural and natural expo Maynard over to your third. This is done to (saturate) this expo. But, have you done anything? no- not really. You are not adding drones, while i do agree that you have made your drones more efficient, and yes your economy will grow faster- you are still going to be producing drones at that new expo, and only at that expo. So a linear progression.

Insted of doing the old way, and the type of economic management i see so often from zergs, why not have all of your hatcheries POP a batch of drones? (Right now your thinking Misrah is fucking clueless) Doing that in a midgame Zvt will leave you with no army- and you will get run over. Well i am so glad that you thought of this dear reader- because you right.

When it comes right down to it, i just don't think that zerg players are not playing to our flexible economy's strenagths. All i see is linear thinking. that is all.

Now I am going to try and theory craft out my idea for zerg play and how i believe with such a flexible economy, zerg should think about their unique economy differently.

So the matchup will be Zvp. P will play standard forge FE into a whatever, +1 rush- why not.

So zerg- will also play standard, 12 hatch and then proceed to 11 pool and 13 hatch yada yada you get it.

Normally the zerg player, off of his/her 3/4 hatcheries would be powering drones. To try and keep up economically with the protoss player. One the zerg player deems he has enough drones (and this depends on game sense, and experience. Noobs make more of an army for a safer yet in the long run more risker type of play, while the gosu is the compleate opposite) All the while Protoss is just going up their steady line. Slowly increasing economy and army size. They are not playing a difficult game, they are just building probes from 2 nexus and power zealots- from 5 or so gates. NO big deal. The zerg on the other hand, has to properly balance out his economy to try and make sure he is not far behind the protoss, and at the same time can survive the +1 timing attack- and not over compensating for said attack, because i have said above this would place him behind.

So instead of looking at this from the old way, try and be more flexible.

The zerg player, instead of trying to power drones, does the complete reverse to any other methodology, and works on increasing his PRODUCTION. Notice i didn't say economy. I'm not talking about drones, I'm not talking about zerglins. I'm talking about hatcheries. You see, noramally zerg players build hatcheris to facilitate a linear growth. Just like Terran and Protoss. But Zerg is NOT LIKE T OR P. So powering on production, zerg has a meger economy. and next to no attacking units. So what should zerg do? Well i think zerg needs an army- to try and fight off that timing push. So mass army. Start building an army earlier. basically start pulling a noob move. Build up, and keep building up. Is your economy shitty? Yes! But! Who cares? We have PRODUCTION on our side! So after building up an army, and not waiting till the last second, like all other zerg MU's zerg and protoss armies collide. And zerg comes out on top.

Right now your thinking, sure you won the battle, but how about the war? Misrah, your economy is shit. Yes i agree, but once again- im not constraining myself to a linear economioc growth. Insted- I can just 'PoP' drones from my 4+ hatch and there- I now have 12+ drones ready to immidiatly begin mining more minirals.

So lets recap our ZvP game. With added production- zerg was able to more comfortably fend off the +1 timing push. But now because of this, is economically behind. In this case, the zerg player- because of added production can "PoP" more drones and INSTANTLY see a benifit. I am not building them one at a time, from 1 or maybe two hatch- I am insted Throwing all of my hatch's to quickly prodcue a dozen or so drones. Afterwards, I can go back to mass army. And when need be, PoP mass drones.

Now are my ideas radicle? Yes. Have they been tested? Yes and no. Now let me explain.

Basically, it would be very very helpful (and i plan to do the following after finals) to try and find that perfect amount of hatcheries to drones. If you have made it this far into my theory guide thingy- then one quesion should still be on your mind.

It should be this: Misrah your still fucking clueless, You need Economy to facilite Production.

My answer? Yes and no. Yes in the fact that you are correct, you do need economy, but what i am trying to get across to you- is the simple fact that zerg players, are always seen producing units off of 3 hatch early game. They never have a larve idle. Yet we always seem to have excess money laying around. (Forgoing the cost of tecking) What can't we have the opposite to some degree? You see, having hatcheries is amazing because you can have a ton of shit building at the same time. Not all at once, but close. Off of your modest economy, couldyou produce 12 drones exactly at one time? NO probably not- but you can get close. I bet that you could have all of them morphing at the same time however.

So thanks for reading. Basically with the above posted, i am just trying to find a way for zerg to jump back. Zerg is flexible. Zerg is not constrained by some silly CC or Nexus. Zerg's kick ass. I just think that, could zerg economics be looked at from a non linear point of view? Can't we be more FLEXIBLE? Zerg has the unique ability to produce producion facilites at an early point in the game. So why not?

I await your scathing comments.

On April 08 2009 08:42 Piy wrote:
That wouldn't work because you need to get the amount of drones that will give you the amount of units that you need to block whatever timing push the T or P is doing. Think of it as having the correct number of drones. So Lurkerling requires 26 (I think...) drones on minerals and 3 gas to make off 5 hatches. So why would you keep making drones? You've got the production you need, you need to expand again before those drones you're constantly building would be cost effective, and if you expand again you can't block their timing.

On April 08 2009 10:57 Misrah wrote:
Once again people just think that zerg needs to be some economy whore house of a race. When i watch zvt and zvp it pisses me off. Zerg only goes for this macro shit and really T and P can get away with just making the bare minimum of units early game and sim city their way to mid game. I agree that zerg should try and play more like t and p. In tvp and pvt there are none of these sim city builds. It just isn't going to happen, because if you do try and do something like that you are going to get killed.

If zerg is going to begin units in the early game and early mid game, and not just the standard *build just enough to hold of this attack* t and p are going to have to get used to making more defenses in the early game, disrupting the sim city of their builds.