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On March 08 2009 15:16 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
artosis is it true the important terran buildings can fly? I wish hatcheries flew.. course.. I wish I didn't have to lose a drone each time I made a building. Be it important or otherwise. Hell, did you know I have to pay additional money to make a defensive structure? I know right? Not only do I need to lose a drone and pay for the structure, I have to then pay more minerals to make it do something. As if I would ever want just a creep colony you know? Like who the fuck makes something that does nothing but shit creep around?
kinda like making a big useless thing that costs 100 minerals and just blocks all your units?
i wish those things just made creep around them or something. While you make this thing you lose mining time too wtf is that?
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On March 08 2009 14:59 anotak wrote:1) What build should I play every practice game in TvT (like the http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=88894 and the 5fac Timing push build I do every game in TvP)? Could you give some supply numbers and not just a name like "1fac1port" ? 2) What helped you learn the most when you were the equivalent of D/D+ skill level? Just sheer practice? 3) What mental obstructions do people have with regards to improving mechanically (I play games every day (not always against people though)) and I've only seen a minor increase in my mechanics in the past 6 months (yet somehow in the 3-4 months before that my mechanics increased greatly it felt like)? 4) How do I best work on my macro/multitask and not worry about my strategy because I'm too mechanically bad to do good strategies for the most part anyway? 5) Most importantly, how do you (as in you specifically not as in anyone) memorize a build order? Just massgame it?
1) the best // safest // most versitile build in tvt is the 1factory 1starport build. there are tons of ways to do it and if you become really really good at executing it then you will be one scary mofo. the 2 big builds for it are the 12gas and the 10gas. 10gas allows you to get 2tanks + siege and 2wraiths + cloak before you start to get low on gas and have to wait before buying more tech units. the 12gas one allows you only siege or cloak. its really up to you which you want to practice. just know that you can't lose any units with this build. most people go for fast expands in tvt and if you use this, keeping your units alive is absolutely key. losing even 1 tank will give them the momentum to roll you over.
2) i started playing this game like 10 years ago. i was really really lucky and met this guy called Eriador AKA Liquid`Drone right off. he took assem and i under his wing. he would sit in the game observing me and telling me what i was doing wrong. he as well as a few others gave me some very general tips that i still keep with me 10 years later. he also helped me a lot by building my rhythm telling me to make scvs each time they finished. he went over all parts of the game, everything he knew with me all the time, never asking for anything in return. i really owe a lot to that guy, as sc has literally become my career and passion.
3) being good at mechanics is NOT NATURAL. it takes lots of hard work. if you really want to become good mechanically, you have to push yourself EVERY MOMENT OF THE GAME. you have to concentrate so hard. really if you are super serious about becoming good mechanically, you should be mentally exhausted at the end of every game.
4) get the most basic and safe builds and know them by heart. 1factory expand tvt/tvp and 1rax expand tvz. once you know these builds basically you can pretty much play out a game vs anything and just practice your other skills, even if you arent reacting 100% correctly to anyhting that comes up.
5) when i am in serious practice, i keep a notepad next to my computer. i actually have the build order written down like i've written them out in a few posts here already. i will just practice the build over and over, making notes and adjustments. after a while you become so used to it you can recite the build. takes a lot of games though.
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On March 08 2009 14:59 Artosis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2009 14:45 fusionsdf wrote:not sure if you're willing to look at replays, soo did I react properly to this 4pool? What is the proper way to react? If I defend, how do I follow up? It seems even if I'm satisfied with how I defended, I come out far behind sorry, for some reason i really hate the time commitment inherent in watching replays. if you describe it i'll take a shot at it though.
ok
I'm 6 vs him at 3.
I scout it coming when I 11 scout. Block the ramp with 6 scvs, build a bunker asap in my minline. Lose 4 scvs at my ramp and retreat the other 2
+ Show Spoiler +
I follow up with 2rax acad off one base while he goes muta->lurker, but I feel behind all game
How would you recommend responding?
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On March 08 2009 15:02 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
how do you sleep at night artosis?
fitfully. the heat is always on too much in the estro house. i wake up dehydrated every single fucking morning.
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On March 08 2009 15:06 REKROLLD wrote:
you forgot that probe drops down buildings that self build
im beginning to like u lol
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theres no proper way to react to 4 pool besides pray that your scv scouts it
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On March 08 2009 15:26 Artosis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2009 15:02 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
how do you sleep at night artosis? fitfully. the heat is always on too much in the estro house. i wake up dehydrated every single fucking morning.
Much like sleeping on a leather couch in NY? The things you do for bw..
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On March 08 2009 15:07 NeVeR wrote:
When doing the Flash build and moving out at the 3-2 timing at 200 supply, why is it that I see a lot of progamers taking a fourth base before they hit 200 supply? I had thought that you would want to get to 200 supply as fast as possible, before their arbiter count gets too high, and I'm pretty certain that you will reach 200 supply faster if you stay on three bases.
Edit: Would it be that the 3-2 upgrades finish a while after 200 supply is reached? So they take a fourth base before 200 supply because they know that the upgrades won't be finished by the time they hit 200 supply on 3 bases anyway? I wouldn't really know since I rarely use the Flash build.
on most maps you don't move out on the 3-2 timing. that takes decades. they will have so many arbs by then. originally the flash build moved out on the 2-1 timing. by the time you are hitting 3-2 you really need that 4th base. you will be going dry in your main and natural and the additional base will allow you to keep up production. if you are really gonna sit there playing by yourself till 200 supply and 3-2 then protoss will have the whole map. move out on 2-1 and take your 4th behind it.
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Need some help on my TvT
Some questions that went unanswered in a previous "gimme questions" thread.
For TvT
-Strengths and weaknesses of various opening builds
-Transitioning (Tank/wraith to tank/gol, or tankvult to tank gol)
-When to make bc's
-When to contain, where to contain
-What maps encourage what unit combinations (specific or rule-of-thumb)
-How to keep map control when army sizes are fairly equal
-Upgrade timings
-Ideal drop ship counts
Some are pretty broad, but feel free to go over whichever ones you want and to whatever depth.
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Artosis as a b-/b zerg I would like to know specific timing windows and build transitions that terran american or korean find hard to adapt. Basicly what is the easiest way to beat a terran that is better then you mechanically?
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Love the incontrol question dodging hahaha
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How come Earth and Mar Sara use the same units and technology?
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What is the most annoying thing a zerg can do to harass a terran?
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United States4126 Posts
In a TvT, when should you opt for Vultures first instead of Gols/Tanks? And if you do, when's a good time to transition higher into the tech tree? Also, how do you go up against a Gol/Sieged Tank army with Vultures? I feel like they melt too easily before they even get mines out.
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On March 08 2009 15:36 AttackZerg wrote:
Artosis as a b-/b zerg I would like to know specific timing windows and build transitions that terran american or korean find hard to adapt. Basicly what is the easiest way to beat a terran that is better then you mechanically?
4 pool 5 pool 6 pool 7 pool 8 pool 9 pool over pool speed
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ah and also slowverlord lurker with hidden expo and guardian tech too
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Incontrol brings up some very nice thought-provoking questions. It's too bad they're not answered. 
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On March 08 2009 15:12 imBLIND wrote:
When a I try to abuse a timing push in TvP or TvZ, it never ever works out for me no matter how good my micro is. I looked at my reps and saw that my timing was a little too slow. I looked at the time where i was supposed to push, but then i realized the other guy stayed on lair for longer or he added 3 gates before his 3rd nexus.
Is it okay to push out at an incorrect timing to just take an expo or something? Do my expos needed to be timed too, like timing pushes? What about doing both at the same time?
In TvT, I am trying to change my unit composition around, and i find that i'm having the hardest time using tank/gol. I can fend tank/wraith off well enough so that i have my 3rd and 4th gases, but mass vultures w/ mines and seiged tanks seem to melt my forces because they made a good position with the vultures before hand. I know tank/vult is weak to wraiths and dropship usage, but i cannot abuse that advantage because by the time i get a 5 dropship force, he switched over to tank/gol and also has a large dropship force.
How would i take my 3rd gas on a non-island map and how do i attack and secure a position against tank/vult without dropships?
timing pushes by definition are timed to kill certain builds. they hit a point where vs the particular build they were made vs they will be extremely effective. you are trying to use timing pushes as a general strategy. you must learn to see if they are doing the build that your particular timing push is aimed against.
i made a vod about destroying protosses who make an additional 3gates before their 3rd base. i think it was merz vs drieven. i suggest you go dig that up on scforall. if they stay lair extra long then just counter the extra mutas with extra vessels + rines or the extra lurkers with a 2nd factory and more siege tanks. this is really basic strategy. just ask yourself "how can i destroy what he's doing easily?". siege tanks > lurkers. irradiate and upgraded marines > mutas.
expos of course need to be timed. it takes a while for an expansion to pay itself off and then add additional income into your economy.
here is a really valuable statement for any terran players out there about TvT. get out a pencil and paper and write it down. im not even kidding. here it is: The more Goliaths you make TvT, the more likely it is that you will lose the game. Goliaths are good in dropships. goliaths can be useful late game when you have a sick economy. in the early and mid game goliaths are not very strong. you should practice vulture tank instead of goliath tank. vulture tank should kill goliath tank without dropship. you will only secure a position against tank/vult without dropships if your opponent doesn't know what he's doing.
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On March 08 2009 15:15 oxidized wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2009 15:03 Artosis wrote:On March 08 2009 14:48 oxidized wrote:
In TvP, is it possible to do an aggressive 2 base strategy that does NOT involve cutting SCVs? If so, what is it? Would I be able to take my third while doing this aggression? yeah theres a lot of aggressive 2base strategies you can do, depending upon the map and the flow of the game. the most generic one would be a 6fact timing push. you can easily expand behind this, but be careful. if you do expand behind it then it will be easier for protoss to break, and if it breaks then you are dead. Can you do a 6 fact timing push without cutting scvs? What is the main goal with a 6 fact timing push? That is, what do I need to do to still be even in the game (do I actually need to kill a base to still be in the game)?
you can do a 6fact timing without cutting scvs. you just have to go slow. if they bust you its gg. 6fact pressures and gains you position. if you kill their 3rd with it and dont get busted you generally win. regardless it makes them macro a ton instead of teching too much or expanding too much. if you can keep the push going, even if it turns into a contain, then you are at least even. you really can't afford to fall back with this strategy because your upgrades are too late.
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Artosis do you prefer Mech builds TvZ or do you stick straight with the bio/SKterran action? (depending on map of course.)
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EPT![[image loading]](http://repdepot.net/img/thumbs/8502.jpg)
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