ask me about Terran

On March 08 2009 14:10 rel wrote:
What does UED stand for?

On March 08 2009 14:15 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:
Ok.
I'm a B rank Terran, but I can never get any higher then that.
Do you have any tips / build recommendations to maybe further my iCCup rise?
The thing I'm MOST having trouble with is korean Muta micro.
I just can't seem to deal.

That and Colloseum TvP, mid/late game.

On March 08 2009 14:20 Lysdexia wrote:
What is the best way to utilize Dark Templar against Terran players?

On March 08 2009 14:16 Ingenol wrote:
Why did you choose Terran as a race?

On March 08 2009 14:22 EsX_Raptor wrote:
How would you describe the mindset Terran players should get into when playing against every race?

On March 08 2009 14:26 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:
Could you possibly tell me some good non-fe openings TvP on maps like Destination?

On March 08 2009 14:29 Athos wrote:
How do you cope with the clear protoss imba?

On March 08 2009 14:27 mastuh wrote:
Do you know any top tier siege expand/fd terran builds vs protoss? The translated guides are really nice in the strategy section, but we don't have an fd/siege expand one yet.
Thanks!

On March 08 2009 14:27 huameng wrote:
How do I stop proxy rax (7 rax or so) in my natural on destination TvT? Should I be scouting after depot on that map? I've already abandoned 12/12 for 11/11 but I always either lose my ramp and have rines terrorizing my city or end up surviving after heavy losses, letting my opponent crush me with higher tech units of his choice.

On March 08 2009 14:30 Boblion wrote:
What's your apm btw ?

On March 08 2009 14:32 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:
Well, since your giving out mucho advice, I'll keep on this train then.
On all these new maps, are there really any AGGRESSIVE openings I can use?
TvZ/TvP.
Now I'm not trying to be like Strelok TvZ overaggression, but I do want to try to dictate/control the game.
And I want to try and finish them in mid game, as I am not too confident late game at this moment.

On March 08 2009 14:36 KP_CollectoR wrote:
Thank god a thread like this has finally come into existence.

Terran vs Protoss on Python:

What is the optimal style of play to get a third base and eventually cut the map in half? Do you recommend playing aggressively/push oriented off of 2 bases first? Is there a Flash/upgrade based style that works on maps w/out 'easy access' third bases? Should I build 4 facs and slow push to the third? Should I make it in a 'safe' location and float it? There are probably varying scenarios that decide what Terran should do, so what are they?

What are the most viable locations for taking the third (mineral only? I've seen replays of you taking the island as your third) and how do you secure them (if I want to 'push out' towards my third, what is the timing window to do so before Protoss gets too big?)

My biggest problem in macro games against Protoss is that I can't keep up with their base count during late game, as they can just cannon up and/or warp in mass gateways at their fresh expos while my expansions seem exceedingly vulnerable.

On March 08 2009 14:43 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:
Final question(s), then I'll leave you alone lol.

What's the BIGGEST difference between foreign Terrans and Korean Terrans? And who do you think are the best Foreign Terrans.

Also, any amateur/B team Terrans you think will make it big?

Views on PianO? lol.

On March 08 2009 14:45 fusionsdf wrote:
not sure if you're willing to look at replays, soo

did I react properly to this 4pool? What is the proper way to react? If I defend, how do I follow up? It seems even if I'm satisfied with how I defended, I come out far behind

On March 08 2009 14:47 WindCalibur wrote:
Wat is the most fearsome unit to u in ZvT?
What strategy in ZvT do you lose to most?
If you were zerg, and the terran was camping,
How would you kill the terran if has shitload of vessels and tanks?

How often does your dropship get scourged?

On March 08 2009 14:48 oxidized wrote:
In TvP, is it possible to do an aggressive 2 base strategy that does NOT involve cutting SCVs? If so, what is it? Would I be able to take my third while doing this aggression?

On March 08 2009 14:54 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
How do you sleep at night?

I mean.. you play a race where you have super weapons at tier two. Spider mines (nevermind the obvious reference to SPIDERMAN) bury themselves under the ground (DT?) to become invisible then they literally get up and run at anything that gets near them and deal more damage than any 1 unit in the entire zerg army save for an infested marine.. oh and they do that damage to multiple units.

Your tanks do as much damage as an ultralisk.. but wait? They then decide to sit the fuck down and deal more than double the damage and oh yeah I almost forgot: they hit everything on the map. I believe they call it the arclite cannon. I know this, because I wake up each night screaming and clawing at the wall to the sound of a tank sieging. That is just when I sleep.. normally I don't sleep because cloaked air units are on my mind smashing overlords and raping my mineral line cause a terran felt like being cheesy..something a zerg player doesn't even have the option of save for "making too much of 1 unit (lings)" and praying the T is a fucking moron.

But hey, it isn't like you have nuclear weapons. Nah, they wouldn't give you that and and a giant air unit capable oflaunching a super weapon and hitting everything else with weapons stronger than anything the Zerg has save for again: the infested marine (which has to kill itself to do that much damage mind you). Nah they wouldn't do that.

Hey dan, how do you sleep at night? How do you sleep knowing that vultures out run everything in the game? How do you sleep knowing that marines, medics and maybe a science vessel or two (really only needed to find the zerg units smart enough to hide in the dirt from a terran army) are needed to kill a sophisticated, mixed and advanced zerg army? How do you sleep?

Better yet.. how angry must you be when you play with this race and lose. How angry? Would you logically assume the imbalance is otherwise? You must. You must do that or else you'd come to the scary realization that this entire game.. the whole game's concept is about stealing wins from terran players. That's all we are trying to do. I mean you have a fucking decade of terran players dominating kespa.

How

Do

you

Sleep.

On March 08 2009 14:51 Strayline wrote:
Why do Terran not harass/be as annoying with their scouting SCV as frequently as protoss is with the scouting probe? I see this in my own noob games and I think it seems to carry though all the way to pro games. Is there a good reason? Am I wrong? Tradition?

On March 08 2009 14:51 Scaramanga wrote:
Whats the best way for a D terran to get better?

On March 08 2009 15:06 Artosis wrote:


get some friends who are similar/slightly better than you and play them a ton. discuss what happens in the game. build your knowledge pool.

On March 08 2009 14:55 x89titan wrote:
how do you see yourself in 10 years?

On March 08 2009 15:09 {88}iNcontroL wrote:


But how did you do this artosis? You were always the best player, your friends just cheesed and used DT's?

On March 08 2009 15:03 Artosis wrote:


yeah theres a lot of aggressive 2base strategies you can do, depending upon the map and the flow of the game. the most generic one would be a 6fact timing push. you can easily expand behind this, but be careful. if you do expand behind it then it will be easier for protoss to break, and if it breaks then you are dead.

On March 08 2009 15:16 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
artosis is it true the important terran buildings can fly? I wish hatcheries flew.. course.. I wish I didn't have to lose a drone each time I made a building. Be it important or otherwise. Hell, did you know I have to pay additional money to make a defensive structure? I know right? Not only do I need to lose a drone and pay for the structure, I have to then pay more minerals to make it do something. As if I would ever want just a creep colony you know? Like who the fuck makes something that does nothing but shit creep around?

On March 08 2009 14:59 anotak wrote:
1) What build should I play every practice game in TvT (like the http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=88894 and the 5fac Timing push build I do every game in TvP)? Could you give some supply numbers and not just a name like "1fac1port" ?

2) What helped you learn the most when you were the equivalent of D/D+ skill level? Just sheer practice?

3) What mental obstructions do people have with regards to improving mechanically (I play games every day (not always against people though)) and I've only seen a minor increase in my mechanics in the past 6 months (yet somehow in the 3-4 months before that my mechanics increased greatly it felt like)?

4) How do I best work on my macro/multitask and not worry about my strategy because I'm too mechanically bad to do good strategies for the most part anyway?

5) Most importantly, how do you (as in you specifically not as in anyone) memorize a build order? Just massgame it?

On March 08 2009 14:59 Artosis wrote:


sorry, for some reason i really hate the time commitment inherent in watching replays. if you describe it i'll take a shot at it though.

On March 08 2009 15:02 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
how do you sleep at night artosis?

On March 08 2009 15:06 REKROLLD wrote:
you forgot that probe drops down buildings that self build

On March 08 2009 15:26 Artosis wrote:


fitfully. the heat is always on too much in the estro house. i wake up dehydrated every single fucking morning.

On March 08 2009 15:07 NeVeR wrote:
When doing the Flash build and moving out at the 3-2 timing at 200 supply, why is it that I see a lot of progamers taking a fourth base before they hit 200 supply? I had thought that you would want to get to 200 supply as fast as possible, before their arbiter count gets too high, and I'm pretty certain that you will reach 200 supply faster if you stay on three bases.

Edit: Would it be that the 3-2 upgrades finish a while after 200 supply is reached? So they take a fourth base before 200 supply because they know that the upgrades won't be finished by the time they hit 200 supply on 3 bases anyway? I wouldn't really know since I rarely use the Flash build.

On March 08 2009 15:36 AttackZerg wrote:
Artosis as a b-/b zerg I would like to know specific timing windows and build transitions that terran american or korean find hard to adapt. Basicly what is the easiest way to beat a terran that is better then you mechanically?

On March 08 2009 15:12 imBLIND wrote:
When a I try to abuse a timing push in TvP or TvZ, it never ever works out for me no matter how good my micro is. I looked at my reps and saw that my timing was a little too slow. I looked at the time where i was supposed to push, but then i realized the other guy stayed on lair for longer or he added 3 gates before his 3rd nexus.
Is it okay to push out at an incorrect timing to just take an expo or something? Do my expos needed to be timed too, like timing pushes? What about doing both at the same time?

In TvT, I am trying to change my unit composition around, and i find that i'm having the hardest time using tank/gol. I can fend tank/wraith off well enough so that i have my 3rd and 4th gases, but mass vultures w/ mines and seiged tanks seem to melt my forces because they made a good position with the vultures before hand. I know tank/vult is weak to wraiths and dropship usage, but i cannot abuse that advantage because by the time i get a 5 dropship force, he switched over to tank/gol and also has a large dropship force.
How would i take my 3rd gas on a non-island map and how do i attack and secure a position against tank/vult without dropships?

On March 08 2009 15:15 oxidized wrote:


Can you do a 6 fact timing push without cutting scvs? What is the main goal with a 6 fact timing push? That is, what do I need to do to still be even in the game (do I actually need to kill a base to still be in the game)?

On March 08 2009 15:17 Ver wrote:
For TvT, what is the best opening to use assuming one doesn't understand early game RPS and is much stronger in midgame play? Right now all I do is 14cc but I would think this is kind of a crutch.

How do you feel about the old 2 rax acad FE versus 2 hatch muta? It would logically make sense because the 2 hatch build has a very weak economy and forcing them to put down 4 sunkens or make an absurd amount of lings + sunks against the early aggression would mess up everything. Is it not being used in pro matches just because everyone's so interested in mech right now? Or is there a problem of defending the mutas themselves with a later expansion even if the Zergs econ gets rocked?

Also, if one were to do this, which is the more efficient method? Cutting scvs to get refinery at 16, acad 17, and depot 18, and then a cc at around 27 or so (Nada did this a bunch)? Or a build without cutting scvs, thus a later acad and cc (I would think mid-30's)?

Consider this scenario in TvP on a map with a hard to take 4th...say Colosseum. Terran does normal Flash style fact cc armory fact cc, Protoss 3rd is delayed and is finished after Terran's 3rd is mining by about 15-30s, and once it's done they immediately take a 4th. Is there a timing window here for the Terran to exploit before a +1/2 push based upon the early 4th? Or should Terran just turtle up and get vessels?

Another TvP timing question. In the Bisu vs Flash game on Medusa (proleague), Bisu did a 12 nexus -> attempted goon break/zeal drop (failed miserably), then took his 3rd/4th at the same time while getting arbiters. While Flash was playing somewhat sloppily after his initial defense (the mine bomb, lack of emps early, 4th expo delayed), it felt like Bisu's build just had a nice advantage even after the disaster of his bulldog. I was just so shocked seeing him break that defense the first time. Would there have been a timing window for Flash to exploit? What did he do wrong aside from getting a late 4th? Besides playing on Medusa obviously.

Lastly, how strong is the build Flash showed against Bisu on Destination (fact cc armory cc/port wall off the ramped 3rd). I thought it seemed great even though Bisu played so well against it but pros don't really seem to use it much there (I haven't seen the latest matches there might be wrong)? That map just feels absurdly hard to move on because of a contain at the nat bridges (among other things) and honestly I don't know how the pro record evened out to like 55-60 P favored on it. If Terran does do that build, can they feasibly push up the side near their 3rd to take the high ground expansion before getting close to max?

Thanks a bunch!

On March 08 2009 15:31 Artosis wrote:


on most maps you don't move out on the 3-2 timing. that takes decades. they will have so many arbs by then. originally the flash build moved out on the 2-1 timing. by the time you are hitting 3-2 you really need that 4th base. you will be going dry in your main and natural and the additional base will allow you to keep up production. if you are really gonna sit there playing by yourself till 200 supply and 3-2 then protoss will have the whole map. move out on 2-1 and take your 4th behind it.

On March 08 2009 15:26 fusionsdf wrote:


ok

I'm 6 vs him at 3.

I scout it coming when I 11 scout. Block the ramp with 6 scvs, build a bunker asap in my minline. Lose 4 scvs at my ramp and retreat the other 2
+ Show Spoiler +

I follow up with 2rax acad off one base while he goes muta->lurker, but I feel behind all game

How would you recommend responding?

On March 08 2009 15:28 {88}iNcontroL wrote:


Much like sleeping on a leather couch in NY? The things you do for bw..

On March 08 2009 14:05 Artosis wrote:
i feel like helping some people. ask me some questions about terran. be as SPECIFIC as you can. i'll answer anything that is asked correctly (and that i feel qualified to answer) as best i can.

On March 08 2009 15:33 alphafuzard wrote:
Need some help on my TvT
Some questions that went unanswered in a previous "gimme questions" thread.

For TvT
-Strengths and weaknesses of various opening builds
-Transitioning (Tank/wraith to tank/gol, or tankvult to tank gol)
-When to make bc's
-When to contain, where to contain
-What maps encourage what unit combinations (specific or rule-of-thumb)
-How to keep map control when army sizes are fairly equal
-Upgrade timings
-Ideal drop ship counts

Some are pretty broad, but feel free to go over whichever ones you want and to whatever depth.

On March 08 2009 16:19 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Interesting fact: The race with the most splash damage(I define this as a spell, attack or anything that damages enemy units): terran

firebat, siege tank, spider mine, nuke, Valkyrie, irradiate.. and we can make an argument for EMP which does have damage to all P units (basically). For a grand total of 6 (7 if we count emp)

Zerg has: lurker attack, infested marine, plague, muta devourer. For a grand total of 5. Should be noted that infested marines have to be stolen from terrans, devourers only attack air and the splash doesn't actually damage units by itself, plague is a stronger version of emp so I will count it.

Protoss: storm, reaver, corsair.

On March 08 2009 15:36 AttackZerg wrote:
Artosis as a b-/b zerg I would like to know specific timing windows and build transitions that terran american or korean find hard to adapt. Basicly what is the easiest way to beat a terran that is better then you mechanically?

On March 08 2009 15:40 n.DieJokes wrote:
What is the most annoying thing a zerg can do to harass a terran?

On March 08 2009 15:40 Kinky wrote:
In a TvT, when should you opt for Vultures first instead of Gols/Tanks? And if you do, when's a good time to transition higher into the tech tree? Also, how do you go up against a Gol/Sieged Tank army with Vultures? I feel like they melt too easily before they even get mines out.

On March 08 2009 15:48 Sprite wrote:
Artosis do you prefer Mech builds TvZ or do you stick straight with the bio/SKterran action? (depending on map of course.)

On March 08 2009 15:51 SkepTicAL wrote:
As a fellow Terran Artosis, I would like to know the diet one should take in order to increase their skill 3 ranks.

On March 08 2009 16:09 ramen247 wrote:
how do you kill a zerg after he gets a defiler?

dropships get scourged and sniped or sunkened.

vessesl numbers arent amazingly high.

On March 08 2009 16:32 reform wrote:
How do you build supply depots?

On March 08 2009 16:12 extracheez wrote:


I've been playing terran for a while now and I only ever made it to D+, my problem is I seem to lose track of my macro and miss a building here and there or not produce enough units. So I've started making games with no players and just going through my builds over and over again to try and memorise them.

4 questions:

1. Is there any better way to memorise builds?

2. Should I scrap my idea and just start playing regular matches?

3. What builds should I learn first? I'm currently trying to memorize flash strat and a 3tank 1 vessle timing push for tvp and tvz, are these decent builds to focus on?

4. How do you hotkey your units and buildings?

On March 08 2009 16:24 CanT.ThinK.oF wrote:
1) How do u push out in TvsP with ~200 supply(upgraded) against arbiter heavy armies ?

2) Is it worth it getting more than 3 comsat stations ?

3) In situations where ur enemy is a protoss who has 8-12 carriers and the rest dragoons and high templars, from how many factories should u make tanks (assuming ur initial tank count has been really lowered from the carriers)

On March 08 2009 16:30 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
artosis: What does robust mean?

On March 08 2009 16:32 reform wrote:
How do you build supply depots?

On March 08 2009 16:37 reform wrote:
Hm, let me rephrase.

Some people build depots in huge clumped lines and some people use checkerboard patterns. Which method is better?

On March 08 2009 16:35 Artosis wrote:



1. i write them down in a notebook and practice them over and over.

2. playing some in single player can be helpful. i practice a few mechanics here and there in single player although not too much. more recently nony made good use of single player practice before going to korea. anything that you feel helps you probably does.

3. dont learn the flash strat yet. theres so much timing involved with it. i think it would just frustrate such a new player. i suggest you play some more aggressive builds. you would learn more that way. maybe a 6factory timing push. the 3tank 1 vessel timing push tvz is probably the smartest thing for u to practice in that matchup atm. ive written 50x about tvt already in this thread so go look for those ones.

4. its different throughout the game. normally its something like this

1 scout
2 cc
3 cc
4 fact 5 fact 6 fact 7 fact 0scan 9scan

as i get ready to move out i put units on my hotkeys and use the F keys over my production buildings. i love dropships on 2 for whatever reason. i must suggest though dropships on 7 or 8 so u can unload easily.

On March 08 2009 16:41 Artosis wrote:


i now understand how you have almost 20 000 posts.

On March 08 2009 16:19 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Interesting fact: The race with the most splash damage(I define this as a spell, attack or anything that damages enemy units): terran

firebat, siege tank, spider mine, nuke, Valkyrie, irradiate.. and we can make an argument for EMP which does have damage to all P units (basically). For a grand total of 6 (7 if we count emp)

Zerg has: lurker attack, infested marine, plague, muta devourer. For a grand total of 5. Should be noted that infested marines have to be stolen from terrans, devourers only attack air and the splash doesn't actually damage units by itself, plague is a stronger version of emp so I will count it.

Protoss: storm, reaver, corsair.

On March 08 2009 16:24 Artosis wrote:


running tiny amounts of zerglings around to harass turret making at your expansion (and when you go to kill them running a couple into your main.) when xiaozi does this to me i want to die.

On March 08 2009 17:30 ramen247 wrote:


lmfao. i hate zergs who do that xd...

On March 08 2009 16:44 radar14 wrote:
Assuming there is still an SC1 scene in 2 years, in what ways do you think the top terran player at that time will have improved upon Flash's current skillset?

With your own current skillset, in what year of BW history do you think you would have been the best player in the world (assuming everyone else's skills were consistent with that year)?

On March 08 2009 16:48 merach wrote:
In the replay of Flash vs oo3 (TvP) on Python, His build is mostly standard (9 depot, the SCV that built the depot starts the rax, gas at 12.5) but it takes an odd turn when he drops the acad at 19. Then when the acad is done, he builds 1 medic to support the 3 rines blocking the ramp, and uses the time building the comsat to cut SCV's for his fast CC. (He pushes out with his first tank but has a seizure and loses the tank! the 2nd tank comes out in time, but an interesting push)

Every time I've done this build, it's stopped DT's cold, confused some of the P's (i show the medic, because it's not a true bio rush) and love the early scans, but everyone thinks it's just too fast. He does scout way late in that reply, but I always go faster, and with the 2 scans it seem like better recon, at what I feel is only a minor eco disadvantage.

What do you think are the pros/cons to this build?(definitely NOT viable on rampless maps, 10/15 rapes this build raw, but makes DT's less effective, as comsat starts at 3:46 etc)

What would you even call it?

On March 08 2009 17:38 Kinky wrote:
When is a good time to get your 3rd against Zerg and Protoss?

On March 08 2009 17:54 Divinek wrote:
If you could summarize your feelings about dt's in one word without using any word synonymous with "gay" or "unfair" how would you do it?

Also when playing against 13 nexus what is your preferred way to play against it?

On March 08 2009 17:57 AltaiR_ wrote:
could you name the top 3 most aggravating moments you've had/strategies used against you during tvp?

On March 08 2009 17:57 whatusername wrote:
do you build supply depot at 8 or 9? are there any real differences between the two?

On March 08 2009 18:11 Day[9] wrote:
Hey Dan!!!

I have a super weird question!

Whenever I'm in a game that I feel "tense" about (ie important tourny games, playing vs a pro for the first time, vs a build I don't like etc), I make certain zerg-specific mistakes: I mess up my overlord placement for drops, my macro falters, I accidentally misclick macro too (like making 9 drones instead of 9 mutas when spire finishes haha). Over time, I've developed my own methods to either feel less "tense" or to avoid such mistakes when they come about.

That said, considering you've had a wide range of experience, what sorts of problems do you occur when you're feeling particularly tense? Also, how do you deal with them?

Sort of a weird one, but i think its cool!!! :D

On March 08 2009 18:26 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Dan quick question.. why did you leave us tonight? Posting on tl.net instead of playing with us?

On March 08 2009 18:38 roadrunner_sc wrote:
For Artosis:

What are some of the early-mid game timing windows you would recommend for a mech tvz opening?
More specifically, if the z takes 3rd and mass muta, is there a timing window to move out with goliath to kill his expo, before mutas reach critical mass? Or is it always just better to slow push and take a 3rd gas, max out and get 2/1 before moving out? Unlike Katrina, a lot of mech I've seen on modern maps tend to revolve around 2 base timed pushes. But I can't seem to find that ideal time to catch the z off guard, as it seems to change dramatically every game.
I usually manage quite well with vulture harassment but always struggled with finding a good timing window for the 1-1 push. Either I push out too late and he has waaayyy more hydras or he hides mutas away from scans and overwhelm me when I have too many tanks and not enough goliath. Everything seems more variable with mech without the typical pressure game you play with m&m. Is this purely a matter of mass gaming and develop better game sense to decide when to move out, or are there some guidelines to timing pushes in mech as well?

On March 08 2009 18:41 nevake wrote:
My biggest problem in TvZ is probably keeping track of all the marines I produce.

After you've hotkeyed your main units, do you hotkey reinforcements as they come as well (if you have room)? I usually find that I don't have time to do that and just select and a click them to the battle/expansion).

Late game, do you keep a hotkey on 1 unit producing structure (to help you macro)?

Other questions:

How do you prevent like...say a group of lings randomly late game from killing your 3rd+ expansions. Do you keep a group of marines/bunker there? I find that another problem of mine is keeping my expansions alive since terran's mobility is so low.

On March 08 2009 14:54 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
How do you sleep at night?

I mean.. you play a race where you have super weapons at tier two. Spider mines (nevermind the obvious reference to SPIDERMAN) bury themselves under the ground (DT?) to become invisible then they literally get up and run at anything that gets near them and deal more damage than any 1 unit in the entire zerg army save for an infested marine.. oh and they do that damage to multiple units.

Your tanks do as much damage as an ultralisk.. but wait? They then decide to sit the fuck down and deal more than double the damage and oh yeah I almost forgot: they hit everything on the map. I believe they call it the arclite cannon. I know this, because I wake up each night screaming and clawing at the wall to the sound of a tank sieging. That is just when I sleep.. normally I don't sleep because cloaked air units are on my mind smashing overlords and raping my mineral line cause a terran felt like being cheesy..something a zerg player doesn't even have the option of save for "making too much of 1 unit (lings)" and praying the T is a fucking moron.

But hey, it isn't like you have nuclear weapons. Nah, they wouldn't give you that and and a giant air unit capable oflaunching a super weapon and hitting everything else with weapons stronger than anything the Zerg has save for again: the infested marine (which has to kill itself to do that much damage mind you). Nah they wouldn't do that.

Hey dan, how do you sleep at night? How do you sleep knowing that vultures out run everything in the game? How do you sleep knowing that marines, medics and maybe a science vessel or two (really only needed to find the zerg units smart enough to hide in the dirt from a terran army) are needed to kill a sophisticated, mixed and advanced zerg army? How do you sleep?

Better yet.. how angry must you be when you play with this race and lose. How angry? Would you logically assume the imbalance is otherwise? You must. You must do that or else you'd come to the scary realization that this entire game.. the whole game's concept is about stealing wins from terran players. That's all we are trying to do. I mean you have a fucking decade of terran players dominating kespa.

How

Do

you

Sleep.

On March 08 2009 14:22 EsX_Raptor wrote:
How would you describe the mindset Terran players should get into when playing against every race?

On March 08 2009 22:52 axle135 wrote:
I'd guess trhe best way to stop fast arbiters is to have goliaths/M&M with Stim at hand and ready with turret cover. If you know they're going arbiter. If not, then I'd like to see why it wouldn't work (no sarcasm). Couldn't you also go mass aerial game / overpower on land with tanks? IMO, valkyries/ aren't used enough. How long is 12 minutes? Battlecruisers? EMP? Lockdown? Siege mode?

Artosis, can you check my other thread? I'll edit in a link there. More of general questions, but since I'm terran so far, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

On March 08 2009 23:10 Hundredth wrote:
not sure if this has been answered but:

what's the best way to deal with a double expand (off say 2 gates) in TvP? on a map like python where you can't really take a 3rd in this situation.

On March 08 2009 23:10 Hundredth wrote:
not sure if this has been answered but:

what's the best way to deal with a double expand (off say 2 gates) in TvP? on a map where taking a 3rd yourself in this siutation is hard because you have to stretch yourself so much.

it's especially annoying in cross positions, because a fast timing attack will arrive a lot slower.

On March 08 2009 23:24 Hyperionnn wrote:
What is most annoying thing besides DT's in TvP? (From your perspective)

On March 08 2009 23:52 EniraM(CA) wrote:
What are your options vs a Protoss who nexus before gateway?
Also Which option is best?

On March 09 2009 00:51 axle135 wrote:
Is the campaign really all that useful for practice? I've just gotten past the one with Duke as a battlecruiser, but I know all the units.

How can I improve my vessel/ vulture micro and macro? I usually end up running out of hotkeys for production.

On March 09 2009 01:32 ProjectVirtue wrote:
Hi there Artosis,

Lately i've been destroyed by mass goons on multiple accounts. I know i need more map awareness but aside from that, i'm even being out produced and out manuvered in the early game.

I played two games this morning, the toss went 14 nex both games. On the first one, i got gas stealed so i switched to a MM build and try to push out to his nat. I got there, but then in the instant i went to macro my base he used his probes + goons to kill my MM. I figured this was ok and proceeded to my tank while pumping MM from 3 rax.but by the time he moved out to my base, i only had 1 control group of MM and 1 tank when he had about 10 goons.

Second game, was more of a standard build. Wall scv on 8, 11 rax, 11 gas, 3 scv on gas for fast fac. I scouted the FE again from the toss so i decided to switch to seige expand to try to keep my economy up. By the time my first tank came out, he had a probe and zealot atking my wall, so i got rid of them and continued to take my nat. At this point he was outnumbering my units 2:1 already. and this is while he built 4-5 pylons around the map. thats a lot of minerals, gone, and i was still being out numbered. i scouted mass goons so i pumped tanks from 2 facs and gollies from 3 and vultures from 1. he rallied them outside my base, and when i tried to move out, most of them were killed. thats when i comsated 2 more expos on his half.

I dont know how to make my build any faster, fast gas with 3 scv + fac is the quickest i can get tank, but i still seem to be outdone by goons every game i play

On March 09 2009 03:22 Mikami wrote:
why did Idra lost against F91 ? you said that TvZ is he's best matchup and it is at progamer level..

On March 09 2009 03:14 Lobbo wrote:
Most standard TvZ/TvP build order (now) to practice with?

On March 09 2009 03:44 anotak wrote:
tvz: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=88894

for tvp:
from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78677&currentpage=13


for tvt:

On March 09 2009 03:14 Lobbo wrote:
Most standard TvZ/TvP build order (now) to practice with?

And.

I've seen so many vods/replays with pros and other players who do 3-4 turrets only at main/nat and keeps loosing scvs anyways. lets say you lose 3 scvs at main and 2 at nat = 250 minerals + lost mining time. Is it not better to get 2-3 turrets more so you have 5 at each mineral line?

It will if you are pro but lets face it none is pro in here who asks questions to you so does it really affect my economy that much if I get 2-3 more turrets instead of loosing 2-3-4-5-6-more scvs?

On March 09 2009 03:22 Mikami wrote:
why did Idra lost against F91 ? you said that TvZ is he's best matchup and it is at progamer level..

On March 09 2009 03:47 Machine[USA] wrote:
Artosis why is it that scv's have 60 hp and all of the other races mining units have 40?

On March 09 2009 04:03 Tehinf wrote:

SCVs can't regenerate their health or shield. Drones and Probes can.

On March 09 2009 05:17 YPang wrote:
LOL artosis ain't going to answer all that questions... but i hope he does... Maybe idra can answer some.. XD

On March 09 2009 03:47 Machine[USA] wrote:
Artosis why is it that scv's have 60 hp and all of the other races mining units have 40?

On March 09 2009 05:15 eatmyshorts5 wrote:
Do you agree with this video: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090308045511881

On March 08 2009 15:51 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
http://www.xtranormal.com/users.php?mode=profile&uid=118472&op=0

Video conversation of artosis and I

On March 09 2009 10:31 Ideas wrote:


I want to see this but it doesn't exist

On March 09 2009 12:20 eatmyshorts5 wrote:

This one? http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090308045511881

On March 09 2009 14:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Is it viable to follow up a FD-Expand with a fast armory and then basically do the FlaSh build?

On March 09 2009 13:50 GhostKorean wrote:
How do I deal with reaver harrass <_<

On March 09 2009 14:12 Tbake wrote:


I belive it just depends on what happend after the FD. If you incountered 2 gate range, and got rolled, then going ups fast would put you at a position where you cant take a 3rd.

If you are successful in taking some map control, I would act apon his actions. If he is doing a quick expand build, react in the proper mannor. Ex. You could do a 4-6 fac push, and an armory would not be nessary. This would give you the extra men to push him, and secure a 3rd while you push. The ups prob would not be done the time you pushed, so why up so fast? The other route is to take a quick 3rd yourself, and yes this would be a good idea to get fast ups, if you play the macro game then get fast ups.

On March 09 2009 11:50 ZzZzAnG wrote:
in terran vs toss how fast do you push?where do you push?toss 3rd,main or to your expo?how do you harass toss propertly and when is good time to harrass,and last how to stop toss from taking over the whole map and just massing up quickly and you kno...just over powering terran
what are you looking for in replay of your self losing?like you died cuz....

thnx

On March 09 2009 14:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:


I'm just doing the FlaSh build (the one TvP build I'm practicing atm)

but it's hard to siege FE for instance on Tau Cross, Blue Storm, Python, etc.

On Collo and Andromeda I'll just siege expand. But FD is safer.

thanks for the advice though

On March 09 2009 19:33 SwEEt[TearS] wrote:
Hey Artosis, need some help with a general way of playing.

My usual practice partner tower abuses (he plays random because he's not exactly serious about SC, has ~90 APM with maybe 150 peak while I have ~120 with 180 peak or so) and when I mean abuse, I mean abuse hard. When he's P you can be sure for every building he makes there's 4-5 cannons, basicly mass cannon + DT drop. when he plays Z he has his base surrounded in spore colonies and his chokes with sunkens. With T he tends to mass turrets + tanks and goes for fast BC.

we usually play on Destination or Sin Chupung-Ryeong so:

in TvT: how the hell am I supposed to break siege tanks with mass turrets if I can't get vision to counter siege?

in TvZ: how do you counter crackling/ultra drop when he goes mass expo+mass colonies?

in TvP: cannons and DTs. how. the. hell. do. you. stop. that. can't push cause he has vision and anti air, and he goes shuttle 2 DTs...timing EBay? I just don't know anymore, unconventionnal play boggles me.

On March 09 2009 19:33 SwEEt[TearS] wrote:
Hey Artosis, need some help with a general way of playing.

My usual practice partner tower abuses (he plays random because he's not exactly serious about SC, has ~90 APM with maybe 150 peak while I have ~120 with 180 peak or so) and when I mean abuse, I mean abuse hard. When he's P you can be sure for every building he makes there's 4-5 cannons, basicly mass cannon + DT drop. when he plays Z he has his base surrounded in spore colonies and his chokes with sunkens. With T he tends to mass turrets + tanks and goes for fast BC.

we usually play on Destination or Sin Chupung-Ryeong so:

in TvT: how the hell am I supposed to break siege tanks with mass turrets if I can't get vision to counter siege?

in TvZ: how do you counter crackling/ultra drop when he goes mass expo+mass colonies?

in TvP: cannons and DTs. how. the. hell. do. you. stop. that. can't push cause he has vision and anti air, and he goes shuttle 2 DTs...timing EBay? I just don't know anymore, unconventionnal play boggles me.

On March 10 2009 06:37 D4EMON wrote:
as a protoss i'm asking something indirectly related to terran. what do you hate as a terran player when playing against protoss? what kind of things just really get to you. or, what kind of things do you really fear when playing protoss?

On March 10 2009 10:41 dhe95 wrote:
Is there a difference between right clicking on an enemy unit and a clicking on that same unit?

On March 10 2009 13:23 YPang wrote:
artosis doesn't feel like hleping us anymore.

On March 10 2009 13:23 YPang wrote:
artosis doesn't feel like hleping us anymore.

On March 10 2009 16:13 VorcePA wrote:
Assuming you've run in to lurkers that do not have any backup, how do you properly (and quickly) split your marine force to minimize casualties? Do you know of any FPVODs in which you can see an example?

What is the most lurkers you want to engage with a simple M&M army before it's time to consider bringing in tanks?

On March 09 2009 03:22 Mikami wrote:
why did Idra lost against F91 ? you said that TvZ is he's best matchup and it is at progamer level..

On March 10 2009 13:45 H wrote:


I wonder if it has anything to do with the influx of absolutely retarded questions

On March 11 2009 05:32 Zoler wrote:


Because F91 beat Stork right?

On March 13 2009 01:28 Stuslegend wrote:
why did you die to early goon presure on colosseum2 ,TL vs YG (vs hon_joon? i think)

On March 11 2009 07:13 Intothebreez wrote:
Somehow due to army positioning I get crushed a lot when 200/200 in TvP. I know an upgraded 200/200 terran army SHOULD be able to beat a maxed protoss army, but I always seem to get SERVED by stasis, storm, and zealot bombs. I usually get pretty hardcore flanked and dont get to set up an optimal tank spread, so then the stasis just ruins my tanks.

Any ideas? Ive been told bringing vults far ahead of tanks helps, and scanning ahead too. Anything else would be appreciated, thanks.

On March 13 2009 02:40 jello_biafra wrote:

I didn't see the game but I'm assuming the Protoss was some kind of gosu going 2 gate power goon against Artosis going Siege Expand on a map with a really cheese cliff right outside the wall.

On March 13 2009 05:21 Stuslegend wrote:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEOrRq0uxzU

1hour+20 mins into the vid

On March 10 2009 16:13 VorcePA wrote:
Assuming you've run in to lurkers that do not have any backup, how do you properly (and quickly) split your marine force to minimize casualties? Do you know of any FPVODs in which you can see an example?

What is the most lurkers you want to engage with a simple M&M army before it's time to consider bringing in tanks?

On March 13 2009 08:45 HnR)Insane wrote:
I know you use patrol for vulture micro.
Do you do the same with goliaths and tanks? Is it the same key for air/ground with goliaths?

On March 08 2009 14:54 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
How do you sleep at night?

I mean.. you play a race where you have super weapons at tier two. Spider mines (nevermind the obvious reference to SPIDERMAN) bury themselves under the ground (DT?) to become invisible then they literally get up and run at anything that gets near them and deal more damage than any 1 unit in the entire zerg army save for an infested marine.. oh and they do that damage to multiple units.

Your tanks do as much damage as an ultralisk.. but wait? They then decide to sit the fuck down and deal more than double the damage and oh yeah I almost forgot: they hit everything on the map. I believe they call it the arclite cannon. I know this, because I wake up each night screaming and clawing at the wall to the sound of a tank sieging. That is just when I sleep.. normally I don't sleep because cloaked air units are on my mind smashing overlords and raping my mineral line cause a terran felt like being cheesy..something a zerg player doesn't even have the option of save for "making too much of 1 unit (lings)" and praying the T is a fucking moron.

But hey, it isn't like you have nuclear weapons. Nah, they wouldn't give you that and and a giant air unit capable oflaunching a super weapon and hitting everything else with weapons stronger than anything the Zerg has save for again: the infested marine (which has to kill itself to do that much damage mind you). Nah they wouldn't do that.

Hey dan, how do you sleep at night? How do you sleep knowing that vultures out run everything in the game? How do you sleep knowing that marines, medics and maybe a science vessel or two (really only needed to find the zerg units smart enough to hide in the dirt from a terran army) are needed to kill a sophisticated, mixed and advanced zerg army? How do you sleep?

Better yet.. how angry must you be when you play with this race and lose. How angry? Would you logically assume the imbalance is otherwise? You must. You must do that or else you'd come to the scary realization that this entire game.. the whole game's concept is about stealing wins from terran players. That's all we are trying to do. I mean you have a fucking decade of terran players dominating kespa.

How

Do

you

Sleep.

On March 13 2009 10:48 Archaic wrote:


Amazing troll. Just amazing .

Anyways, Artosis:
How do you *not* dominate Terran and still win the game? Every single ZvT I *ever* play is either complete domination from start to finish, or I get quick contained/lose entire army/get raped in general, and on the backfoot for the whole game, until I lose.

What does an even, swinging ZvT consist of?

On March 13 2009 15:11 entropos wrote:
I have a few noobish questions:

1) How do you macro the 8+ rax you have in lategame tvz? It takes all my concentration assigning reinforcements to control groups and keeping my vessels away from scourge and my marines away from lurkers. When I move my screen to my rax, my army in the field often gets owned. I usually end up losing with 3000 min in the bank. I have ~135 apm.

2) How do you secure your third in python tvp against the 1a2a3a protoss army? If I split my army to cover both the huge ramp and my nat, I'll have the entire toss force against half my army. If I concentrate my army, they attack where it's not.

3) More generally... any general tips for how to place your army to keep map control? If I'm not containing someone, I'm usually at a loss for how to defend my spread out bases.

4) Can somebody link a good guide on turret placement? I can't count how many tvp games I've lost where I get a nice contain up, and then get my base owned by reaver harass slipping through my swiss-cheese turret field.