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jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6642 Posts
March 12 2009 20:36 GMT
#221
On March 13 2009 05:21 Stuslegend wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2009 02:40 jello_biafra wrote:
On March 13 2009 01:28 Stuslegend wrote:
why did you die to early goon presure on colosseum2 ,TL vs YG (vs hon_joon? i think)


I didn't see the game but I'm assuming the Protoss was some kind of gosu going 2 gate power goon against Artosis going Siege Expand on a map with a really cheese cliff right outside the wall.




1hour+20 mins into the vid

Ah ok not exactly what I was expecting. It seems he just made some micro mistakes, let that tank die and from that point you're pretty much fucked when toss is going mad goons early like that. :/
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-12 20:42:28
March 12 2009 20:36 GMT
#222
On March 10 2009 16:13 VorcePA wrote:
Assuming you've run in to lurkers that do not have any backup, how do you properly (and quickly) split your marine force to minimize casualties? Do you know of any FPVODs in which you can see an example?

What is the most lurkers you want to engage with a simple M&M army before it's time to consider bringing in tanks?

You make little boxes with your mouse over your marines and then move them horizonitally so they form a line. Then you stim. Then you attack move with them. While they are moving forward select the ones that clump up and move them to the side, running forward just in range of the lurks to draw fire out to the sides.

Oh and you're gonna wanna scan before you do that.

It's not really somethin that can be explained, its more of a feel thing.
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
Zurles
Profile Joined February 2009
United Kingdom1659 Posts
March 12 2009 21:00 GMT
#223
200/200 is all about the EMP imo
BalliSLife
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
1339 Posts
March 12 2009 23:12 GMT
#224
Why do people not like python?
Ya well, at least I don't fuck a fleshlight with a condom on and cry at the same time.
Insane
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States4991 Posts
March 12 2009 23:45 GMT
#225
I know you use patrol for vulture micro.
Do you do the same with goliaths and tanks? Is it the same key for air/ground with goliaths?
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
March 12 2009 23:49 GMT
#226
Gols attack move, tanks.... are so imbalanced they fire without receiving the order.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-13 00:58:58
March 13 2009 00:58 GMT
#227
On March 13 2009 08:45 HnR)Insane wrote:
I know you use patrol for vulture micro.
Do you do the same with goliaths and tanks? Is it the same key for air/ground with goliaths?


Goliath, attack click.
Tanks, hold pos if running away attack click if chasing (unsieged ofc).

anyway its been like 6-7 pages and artosis hasn't answered so im amazed people still flood this thread with questions

According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Archaic
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States4024 Posts
March 13 2009 01:48 GMT
#228
On March 08 2009 14:54 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
How do you sleep at night?

I mean.. you play a race where you have super weapons at tier two. Spider mines (nevermind the obvious reference to SPIDERMAN) bury themselves under the ground (DT?) to become invisible then they literally get up and run at anything that gets near them and deal more damage than any 1 unit in the entire zerg army save for an infested marine.. oh and they do that damage to multiple units.

Your tanks do as much damage as an ultralisk.. but wait? They then decide to sit the fuck down and deal more than double the damage and oh yeah I almost forgot: they hit everything on the map. I believe they call it the arclite cannon. I know this, because I wake up each night screaming and clawing at the wall to the sound of a tank sieging. That is just when I sleep.. normally I don't sleep because cloaked air units are on my mind smashing overlords and raping my mineral line cause a terran felt like being cheesy..something a zerg player doesn't even have the option of save for "making too much of 1 unit (lings)" and praying the T is a fucking moron.

But hey, it isn't like you have nuclear weapons. Nah, they wouldn't give you that and and a giant air unit capable oflaunching a super weapon and hitting everything else with weapons stronger than anything the Zerg has save for again: the infested marine (which has to kill itself to do that much damage mind you). Nah they wouldn't do that.

Hey dan, how do you sleep at night? How do you sleep knowing that vultures out run everything in the game? How do you sleep knowing that marines, medics and maybe a science vessel or two (really only needed to find the zerg units smart enough to hide in the dirt from a terran army) are needed to kill a sophisticated, mixed and advanced zerg army? How do you sleep?

Better yet.. how angry must you be when you play with this race and lose. How angry? Would you logically assume the imbalance is otherwise? You must. You must do that or else you'd come to the scary realization that this entire game.. the whole game's concept is about stealing wins from terran players. That's all we are trying to do. I mean you have a fucking decade of terran players dominating kespa.

How

Do

you

Sleep.


Amazing troll. Just amazing .

Anyways, Artosis:
How do you *not* dominate Terran and still win the game? Every single ZvT I *ever* play is either complete domination from start to finish, or I get quick contained/lose entire army/get raped in general, and on the backfoot for the whole game, until I lose.

What does an even, swinging ZvT consist of?
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
March 13 2009 02:02 GMT
#229
On March 13 2009 10:48 Archaic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2009 14:54 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
How do you sleep at night?

I mean.. you play a race where you have super weapons at tier two. Spider mines (nevermind the obvious reference to SPIDERMAN) bury themselves under the ground (DT?) to become invisible then they literally get up and run at anything that gets near them and deal more damage than any 1 unit in the entire zerg army save for an infested marine.. oh and they do that damage to multiple units.

Your tanks do as much damage as an ultralisk.. but wait? They then decide to sit the fuck down and deal more than double the damage and oh yeah I almost forgot: they hit everything on the map. I believe they call it the arclite cannon. I know this, because I wake up each night screaming and clawing at the wall to the sound of a tank sieging. That is just when I sleep.. normally I don't sleep because cloaked air units are on my mind smashing overlords and raping my mineral line cause a terran felt like being cheesy..something a zerg player doesn't even have the option of save for "making too much of 1 unit (lings)" and praying the T is a fucking moron.

But hey, it isn't like you have nuclear weapons. Nah, they wouldn't give you that and and a giant air unit capable oflaunching a super weapon and hitting everything else with weapons stronger than anything the Zerg has save for again: the infested marine (which has to kill itself to do that much damage mind you). Nah they wouldn't do that.

Hey dan, how do you sleep at night? How do you sleep knowing that vultures out run everything in the game? How do you sleep knowing that marines, medics and maybe a science vessel or two (really only needed to find the zerg units smart enough to hide in the dirt from a terran army) are needed to kill a sophisticated, mixed and advanced zerg army? How do you sleep?

Better yet.. how angry must you be when you play with this race and lose. How angry? Would you logically assume the imbalance is otherwise? You must. You must do that or else you'd come to the scary realization that this entire game.. the whole game's concept is about stealing wins from terran players. That's all we are trying to do. I mean you have a fucking decade of terran players dominating kespa.

How

Do

you

Sleep.


Amazing troll. Just amazing .

Anyways, Artosis:
How do you *not* dominate Terran and still win the game? Every single ZvT I *ever* play is either complete domination from start to finish, or I get quick contained/lose entire army/get raped in general, and on the backfoot for the whole game, until I lose.

What does an even, swinging ZvT consist of?


Zerg trying to break the terran push, equal strenght zerg survives adds another exp same thing again, terran push and zerg tries to survive. After a while if zerg keep surviving like that terran has to move on to harrassplay which is one attack here and one attack there while trying to irradiate everything possible. either that harass is successful and you win or sooner or later zerg will have enough to make ultralisks and kill you. Thats a pretty standard long tvz.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-13 05:59:56
March 13 2009 05:59 GMT
#230
Will pressing hold position while selecting a group of tanks affect their attacking behaviour any differently than the norm(just sieging and letting them fire)?
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
entropos
Profile Joined March 2009
United States11 Posts
March 13 2009 06:11 GMT
#231
I have a few noobish questions:

1) How do you macro the 8+ rax you have in lategame tvz? It takes all my concentration assigning reinforcements to control groups and keeping my vessels away from scourge and my marines away from lurkers. When I move my screen to my rax, my army in the field often gets owned. I usually end up losing with 3000 min in the bank. I have ~135 apm.

2) How do you secure your third in python tvp against the 1a2a3a protoss army? If I split my army to cover both the huge ramp and my nat, I'll have the entire toss force against half my army. If I concentrate my army, they attack where it's not.

3) More generally... any general tips for how to place your army to keep map control? If I'm not containing someone, I'm usually at a loss for how to defend my spread out bases.

4) Can somebody link a good guide on turret placement? I can't count how many tvp games I've lost where I get a nice contain up, and then get my base owned by reaver harass slipping through my swiss-cheese turret field.
THOOM!
WildRed
Profile Joined March 2009
Vatican City State21 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-13 06:20:08
March 13 2009 06:18 GMT
#232
On March 13 2009 15:11 entropos wrote:
I have a few noobish questions:

1) How do you macro the 8+ rax you have in lategame tvz? It takes all my concentration assigning reinforcements to control groups and keeping my vessels away from scourge and my marines away from lurkers. When I move my screen to my rax, my army in the field often gets owned. I usually end up losing with 3000 min in the bank. I have ~135 apm.

2) How do you secure your third in python tvp against the 1a2a3a protoss army? If I split my army to cover both the huge ramp and my nat, I'll have the entire toss force against half my army. If I concentrate my army, they attack where it's not.

3) More generally... any general tips for how to place your army to keep map control? If I'm not containing someone, I'm usually at a loss for how to defend my spread out bases.

4) Can somebody link a good guide on turret placement? I can't count how many tvp games I've lost where I get a nice contain up, and then get my base owned by reaver harass slipping through my swiss-cheese turret field.


1) Get faster. If you can't get faster, then just queue 5 marines in each rax.

2) Timing push is a more common and stronger build on this map barring certain positions, e.g. 6 vs 12, you can expo to the min only more easily. Otherwise if you insist on taking a third you need to lay a ton of mines and turret it up and play it old school style. Another alternative is to take your island after a little dropship harass play and macro up.

3) TvP you are either sitting in static mode macroing and defending bases, slow pushing, or tornadoing. If you are afraid of backstabs, lay a lot of mines along the backstab and flank paths to buy time or kill careless units without obs.

4) You don't usually see a contain being set up in TvP of the nature you are describing. However, if you are ahead economically and you want to sit and macro for a bit you can place turrets around the edges of your base, each 1 turret's range from one another. This will guarantee a kill on a slow shuttle before it gets a few feet into your base (2 turrets shoot the shuttle at once). You just need to have a feel for the turret's range, it's not very difficult to grow used to.
entropos
Profile Joined March 2009
United States11 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-13 07:32:08
March 13 2009 06:25 GMT
#233
4) Maybe swiss cheese was the wrong word. I can do the turret perimeter... with that and a vessel I'm awesome against recalls. What gives me trouble is the early shuttle with the first reaver and 2 lots, when you've just got your ebay up and don't have time/min to build too many turrets.
THOOM!
extracheez
Profile Joined January 2009
Australia151 Posts
March 13 2009 12:06 GMT
#234
TvP on andromeda. I want to push when the toss gets his third, but I cant see if he is getting his third because its up his ramp. How should I best deal with this? Early acad or something?
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-13 12:50:06
March 13 2009 12:48 GMT
#235
On March 13 2009 15:25 entropos wrote:
4) Maybe swiss cheese was the wrong word. I can do the turret perimeter... with that and a vessel I'm awesome against recalls. What gives me trouble is the early shuttle with the first reaver and 2 lots, when you've just got your ebay up and don't have time/min to build too many turrets.


Have 1-2 turrets covering your main mineral line and around 2 tanks with your marines guarding it. One sieged tank on your cliff is enough to defend your natural (ofc if he attacks you move your reaver defence units back).

Then you must scout too, if you scout three gates or something ofc he won't be going reaver and you can focus on defending your natural and if you feel he's going reavers just defend against that.

Lim Yo Hwan forever!
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
March 13 2009 12:50 GMT
#236
On March 13 2009 21:06 extracheez wrote:
TvP on andromeda. I want to push when the toss gets his third, but I cant see if he is getting his third because its up his ramp. How should I best deal with this? Early acad or something?


You can float your barracks there if he is at the position which is below you. Pretty early scans is needed for fast push anyway because DTs will own you otherwise and especially on Andromeda where can you can't build turrets the whole way.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
XxEliteXx
Profile Joined March 2009
Afghanistan2 Posts
March 14 2009 17:54 GMT
#237
It took my while to find out how to make a topic and then i can't before 10 days.. Ohh I hate you spammer because of you **** i need to wait
Anyways i have problems with PvT they crush me everytime.. with bigball of vultures and tanks.. what can i do against that ?.. as soon as i try to flank they just siege up and Boom my army is gone.,..
Im a noob :D
imBLIND
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2626 Posts
March 14 2009 18:05 GMT
#238
On March 15 2009 02:54 XxEliteXx wrote:
It took my while to find out how to make a topic and then i can't before 10 days.. Ohh I hate you spammer because of you **** i need to wait
Anyways i have problems with PvT they crush me everytime.. with bigball of vultures and tanks.. what can i do against that ?.. as soon as i try to flank they just siege up and Boom my army is gone.,..

There's a reason you have to wait for 10 days...its so you can take those 10 days and memorize the Strategy forum guidelines.
im deaf
Zurles
Profile Joined February 2009
United Kingdom1659 Posts
March 14 2009 21:45 GMT
#239
love how he randomly stopped hahaha
Louder
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States2276 Posts
March 14 2009 22:01 GMT
#240
Dan what is your record vs me? I know you've kept track since 99 in your little book


Actually I was wondering under what circumstances in tvp does it actually hurt Terran to have vultures stasised? I almost always regret stasising vults even though it always seems smart at the time

See you on vent tonight?????????
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