EPT! [G] Modern Zerg Strategy - Page 2
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RaGe
Belgium9950 Posts
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parkin
1085 Posts
Nice guide inc^^ | ||
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bash9
25 Posts
You know how that scouting probe sometimes gets out of the closet and sits on the spot you want to build your expansion hatchery? Well, you let him build 2 pylons to wall the minerals off and when they're almost done, you bring like 4 drones and hop them over the minerals. If you micro, he can't build a cannon, there's not enough space. So what he'll actually do is cancel his two pylons (if he still can) and you can resume mining. | ||
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grobo
Japan6199 Posts
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Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
On February 13 2008 14:03 SpiritoftheTuna wrote: i love you | ||
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Mnemosyne
Canada54 Posts
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diehilde1
Germany522 Posts
How do you play out 9 pool speedling against a standard 2 gate opening? Lately tosses I play against have been going 2 gate more often again. They go smth like 2 gate -> pressure or mass at ramp (depends on Z bo) and if they cant pressure anymore, they expand. With 9 pool opening, I still have to pump non stop lings until the hatchery at the expansion is up to be safe from his possible zealot attack. Then when the hatch is up and u can sunk, u start massing drones and at that time he comes out and expands himself. I always feel that in this situation u are at quite the economic disadvantage, with very low drone count and P having his Natural expansion warping. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32130 Posts
Im reading through it now (at zvp). I always thought 12pooling was the devil!? Also, you mention goign mondi style and dropping an evo for early upgrades. I like this, but don't you feel telling people to drop a spore for the first sair is kind of wasteful? ISn't this one of things that has always been stated? nice guide! | ||
Chill
Calgary25996 Posts
I think 9 Pool and 9 Pool speed are both strong ZvP openings, however I don't feel 12 Hatch is as unviable as you make it seem. That's my only complaint. | ||
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yubee
United States3826 Posts
if the protoss fails to react to a high ling count, whether by just being a d-u-m protoss or lack of scouting, how do you decide whether to run by or try to break the cannons? and if you deal a significant amount of damage with early lings what factors would make you want to try to finish quick with lings or hydras vs double expanding | ||
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Nitro68
France470 Posts
I've just a noob question : 9 Pool speed = - 9 pool - 9 gas - 8 Overlord And the 9 pool without speed = the one with extractor trick ? Edit : ok got the answer here : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=58964 | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On February 13 2008 21:52 bash9 wrote: I don't think you have to fear the "blocked cannon rush" so much. You know how that scouting probe sometimes gets out of the closet and sits on the spot you want to build your expansion hatchery? Well, you let him build 2 pylons to wall the minerals off and when they're almost done, you bring like 4 drones and hop them over the minerals. If you micro, he can't build a cannon, there's not enough space. So what he'll actually do is cancel his two pylons (if he still can) and you can resume mining. This is IF all things go perfectly. Hell even progamers fuck up their blocked pylon defense.. I dont think its safe or fair to say "you dont have to fear" as if its some 100% block. Sure its possible to defend.. but its risky and in an important series or game why take an unnecessary risk? | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On February 13 2008 21:11 RaGe wrote: What do you think of playing vs a DT-sair opening that gets a third gas expo before you get lairspeed and uses the faster second assimalitor to get quickstorm and defend all expo's (with low sair-dt count? Hydra all-in or macro game? Dont you have a lot of difficulty securing another expo before ovspeed? Well you are making a hypothetical situation that is unbalanced. If the map has an easy 3rd gas for the P (Loki II comes to mind) you would want to expand to those expansions yourself and take another so you remain at at least +1 expansion on the protoss. But if you do find yourself without speed and the protoss has 3 gas your best bet is to TRY and turtle more expansions. An all in against a 3 gas storm protoss is not "all-in" its suicide. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On February 13 2008 23:15 diehilde wrote: [Q] ZvP How do you play out 9 pool speedling against a standard 2 gate opening? Lately tosses I play against have been going 2 gate more often again. They go smth like 2 gate -> pressure or mass at ramp (depends on Z bo) and if they cant pressure anymore, they expand. With 9 pool opening, I still have to pump non stop lings until the hatchery at the expansion is up to be safe from his possible zealot attack. Then when the hatch is up and u can sunk, u start massing drones and at that time he comes out and expands himself. I always feel that in this situation u are at quite the economic disadvantage, with very low drone count and P having his Natural expansion warping. This is a really good question. You will find 2 gates on python or perhaps other maps if they are bad/risky. If you 9pool speed either your ovie or your first 6 lings will find the A. zealot that has left to go attack in which case you surround and kill and chase the remaining zealots back to the P ramp or B. you will find them blocking the ramp. Cut lings immediatly and make your expanding hatch. Position the overlords so you can see if hes pumping zealots. If he has 6-7 you know this is not a joke, he will leave his base eventually. Make a sunk or two and responding lings at the hatch after you have macro'd. The misconception is that you have to continue to pump lings just to keep up. You dont. The protoss player has to keep at least 2 zealots at home to block the ramp else your speed lings will run by and its gg (all you have to do at that point is cancel hatch OR make 2 sunks at the expansion and defend the all-in counter). Kill scouting probes and dont allow the protoss to see beyond his natural. Most P's will respond by going a 1 base build in which you can have a faster economy. Some P's will push out and cannon/expand behind the zealot force. Again, run around the force with the 6 lings or so and stop the expansion and if you can go into the main. Your new expansion should have a sunk and the necessary amount of lings to thwart the zealot attack. The idea here is that your countering abilities trims the zealot army at worst and at best wins the game/buys you necessary time. If you lose lings at no cost to the protoss army you will lose. 9pool speed is not for the faint of heart. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On February 13 2008 23:22 Hawk wrote: [Q] ZVP Im reading through it now (at zvp). I always thought 12pooling was the devil!? Also, you mention goign mondi style and dropping an evo for early upgrades. I like this, but don't you feel telling people to drop a spore for the first sair is kind of wasteful? ISn't this one of things that has always been stated? nice guide! If you know the protoss is going sair and you dont want to make early hydra a spore is the only response. Its not wasteful if you react properly following it. | ||
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Duke
United States1106 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On February 14 2008 00:31 yubee wrote: [Q] ZvP if the protoss fails to react to a high ling count, whether by just being a d-u-m protoss or lack of scouting, how do you decide whether to run by or try to break the cannons? and if you deal a significant amount of damage with early lings what factors would make you want to try to finish quick with lings or hydras vs double expanding great question I decide by the situation. If the protoss even has 2-3 probes blocking entries or sitting by cannons chances are its too much to break (12-14 ling vs 2 cannons/3 probes for instance). I say situation, but really is positioning. If the cannons are poorly placed you can run by here or attack, based on whichever you think will work better. Honestly I think both are equally risky or equally effective. often times you can run by and end the game by harrassing the weaker probes/nexus while rallying 2 hatch lings to the 2 cannon expansion. The hydra end game decision comes by the amount of damage you do. If the protoss loses 3-4 probes and pulls probes to chase off lings and builds a cannon in the main mineral line or so I would consider ending it with 3 hatch hydra. The thing that a lot of z's dont do however (non-korean) is they just pump lings. THis is where the harrass/opening of 9pool speed becomes an all-in build that is more risky than necessary. You need to harrass but also make some drones at home so your economy can surpass the protoss. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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