EPTBut "waiting" for 1-1 is not always feasible. +1 zealots are beastly sure, but nothing to fear to the point of complete avoidance.
! [G] Modern Zerg Strategy - Page 3
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
But "waiting" for 1-1 is not always feasible. +1 zealots are beastly sure, but nothing to fear to the point of complete avoidance. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
Why not go 3 evo chambers, even 2-1-2 is better than 2-0-2 i think (or 1-1-2). Plz no "preparing for ultralisk" answer  (2-0-2 I understand if army is ling/lurker but its not usually) | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On February 14 2008 03:51 Too_MuchZerg wrote: I did watch a lot of your ZvP replays (iccup replay package thread). I just wonder what is the reason why you upgrade ling attack first rather than hydra attack even if you pump a lot hydras (way more than lings)+ huge use of lurkers? Few games you lost (my opinion) because upgrading that but you didnt even use ling attack (seeing 0-2 hydras attacking protoss when 2-2 updgrades goes waste). Why not go 3 evo chambers, even 2-1-2 is better than 2-0-2 i think (or 1-1-2). Plz no "preparing for ultralisk" answer (2-0-2 I understand if army is ling/lurker but its not usually) The "plz no ultralisk response" is the answer. Its obviously a preperation for late game, what other answer you expect? | ||
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
On February 14 2008 04:07 {88}iNcontroL wrote: The "plz no ultralisk response" is the answer. Its obviously a preperation for late game, what other answer you expect? [opinion] Then why dont make army like scourge / ling / lurker and skip hydras (not wasting gas for hydra upgrades) and straight ultra then? Its just that it liked that few games you had 30-50 hydras with 2-0-2 upgrades with zero-6 lings and survived few waves of protoss forces but then died to protoss compination that butchered hydras (few lurkers) even before hive tech is completed. I was thinking maybe to use those hydra upgrades before ultas comes by good drops to protoss main etc. Getting late game is much harder when you die before that because of lack of upgrades from hydras. [/opinion] I certainly play lower skill level than you but I started experimenting all kind of things to stop protoss anhilating me before hive tech kicks in by making occasionally drop games, upgrading different order when needed before those mad cows gets possible job done. For me sometimes 2-1-3 is better than 3-0-3 upgrades. | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
I think another similar situation is if im preparing for a ultra/ling late game in ZvT, then something critical happens like I lose a major expand while countering to T so I am left with my main/nat vs his slow rebuild.. and I end up playing a scared defiler/lurker game with unupgraded lurkers. I might still win it, but I cant predict when something like this will happen so even though it would be easier with that range attack upgraded, i just cant predict that way. Best case is to upgrade after the fact, but even then we are talking several minutes to wait for it to even be finished, let alone start to affect battles. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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NovaTheFeared
United States7232 Posts
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Tiamat
United States498 Posts
I played a game on the map that has the Protoss Gas Chokes, and when you destroy them it basicly turns the game into an island game. How do you play against a Protoss on this map when they mass sairs, I am talking about 2 control groups or more worth of sairs. I tried the only counter I could think of, Devs but even those were destroyed quite easily. Any type of drops are thwarted by Sairs and Dweb, and normally his bases are littered with cannons. I guess the question is, how does a zerg take back air control from mass sairs when they cannot attack via ground units? | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On February 14 2008 06:06 Tiamat wrote: [Q] ZvP I played a game on the map that has the Protoss Gas Chokes, and when you destroy them it basicly turns the game into an island game. How do you play against a Protoss on this map when they mass sairs, I am talking about 2 control groups or more worth of sairs. I tried the only counter I could think of, Devs but even those were destroyed quite easily. Any type of drops are thwarted by Sairs and Dweb, and normally his bases are littered with cannons. I guess the question is, how does a zerg take back air control from mass sairs when they cannot attack via ground units? I know the map you are talking about. I have only observed 1 game on it, and it was TvZ. So I have no idea >_< | ||
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YPang
United States4024 Posts
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HotZhot
Colombia677 Posts
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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DamageControL
United States4222 Posts
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Scooter
United States747 Posts
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5HITCOMBO
Japan2239 Posts
What do you think about 9 hatch main 9 pool? Does 9 pool's faster lair just counter this straight up? | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
On February 14 2008 12:22 5HITCOMBO wrote: [ZvZ] What do you think about 9 hatch main 9 pool? Does 9 pool's faster lair just counter this straight up? Man i dont know if ive played vs that build with 9overpool but im pretty sure i tried it once or twice vs it to see how it would do.. and the overpool manages to keep up with you in ling count for a while if he wants to pump nonstop lings, his lair is gonna be like 50% before your hatch even finishes. All he gotta do is keep 1 drone on gas and economically he should be fairly even with you, good sunken placement and back off his ramp before you get overwhelming numbers and there should be almost nothing you can do, once his muta or two pops out you gotta get spore or you're dead.. then he can just keep massing mutas after putting a few drones back on gas. Im trying to comb my mind for how 9hat/9pool does vs the other builds as I used to do it a lot back on gamei(I was awful compared to now though). Seemed good vs 12pool and 9pool speed, but not great vs 12hatch. | ||
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xBTx
Canada542 Posts
And I don't even play Zerg that much | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On February 14 2008 13:02 red.venom wrote: Man i dont know if ive played vs that build with 9overpool but im pretty sure i tried it once or twice vs it to see how it would do.. and the overpool manages to keep up with you in ling count for a while if he wants to pump nonstop lings, his lair is gonna be like 50% before your hatch even finishes. All he gotta do is keep 1 drone on gas and economically he should be fairly even with you, good sunken placement and back off his ramp before you get overwhelming numbers and there should be almost nothing you can do, once his muta or two pops out you gotta get spore or you're dead.. then he can just keep massing mutas after putting a few drones back on gas. Im trying to comb my mind for how 9hat/9pool does vs the other builds as I used to do it a lot back on gamei(I was awful compared to now though). Seemed good vs 12pool and 9pool speed, but not great vs 12hatch. 9hatch/9pool is good on VERY FEW MAPS and ONLY maps that are great for 2 gate protoss or MAYBE bbs (but those maps are rare). For zvz its dumb and bad. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On February 14 2008 10:05 DamageControL wrote: Pure gold here. Anyways I was reading on your counters for toss and is there anything toss can do to counter the 9pool while FEing? Or will the zerg always end up ahead? Toss can be fine if they position the buildings so it takes 1-2 probes to block. Also P's need to scout well. If the Z is making many lings throw down a sunk or two and wait for them to "all-in." If they are smart it becomes a standard game. | ||
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