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So in a recent game against Zerg, I wanted to do something crazy and decided to go arbiters. With my main army mostly cloaked, it performed surprisingly well against a hydra/ling/ultra army. The Zerg then responded with scourges and mass overlords, which I responded by flying over archons and casting stasis on overlords respectively. I still lost the game, but it did get me thinking.
Arbiter in PvZ has...
Pros:
-Cloaks units under it (obviously?), thus making units like high templars harder to snipe.
-Zerg's only mobile detection is overlord, which can be killed with dragoons and corsairs, or just frozen.
-The lategame army will have some archons, which is excellent for mass scourge.
-Arbiters are beefy enough to take a few hits from scourges.
-Zergs are forced to waste larvae on overlords.
-Recall is extremely situational in PvZ, but may see some uses; like defensive recall if you're feeling creative.
Cons:
-Recall is next to useless in PvZ due to the mobility of the Zerg army. Unless you decide to stasis the ramp I guess.
-Keeping the arbiter alive against scourges is another micro task- be it by flying it over archons or controlling corsairs.
-Very weak against Plague, unless you have dark archons.
-350 gas is more than the cost of 2 high templars, and arbiter tribunal and its upgrades aren't cheap.
-Arbiters are built from stargates, which mean that you can't mass both corsairs and arbiters concurrently.
-Three generations will have lived and died by the time one arbiter is built.
In short, I think arbiters are actually quite useful in the lategame, when you already have a critical mass of corsairs and enough gas to get a bunch of archons. Despite this, I've barely seen people use arbiters in PvZ even as a surprise tactic.
Thoughts?
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Scourge counter this type of play entirely, assuming you are even allowed to tech to arbiter without dying..
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In the mid-late game it is definitely good with proper control.
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On June 12 2017 11:05 Gromgrom wrote:
Scourge counter this type of play entirely, assuming you are even allowed to tech to arbiter without dying..
Not if you have a few archons to fly over, or didn't lose most of your corsairs. I'd say plague is a better counter than scourges.
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It's good but it costs 350 gas and on most maps Protoss struggle to get 3 gas. If Protoss has 4 gas they might as well build anything and win.
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Norway28727 Posts
as long as you have preserved the corsair fleet, arbiters can be really good pvz. You don't want to do it without sairs though, that's not just about scourge defense, mostly about killing overlords. Imo, you don't want to go arbiter+zealot+archon+templar, you want arbiter+corsair+dragoon+templar. Logic is basically that because he has to bring overlords to all fights, your sairs also force him to have hydras to defend those overlords. and then partially cloaked dragoon templar actually performs really well against a hydra heavy army. If you manage to implement dark archons and successfully feedback defilers before they get off plagues, then this composition becomes really tough for zerg to combat
you actually do a good job covering most of the weaknesses. Transitioning into them is, in most games, very expensive. And plague is super deadly; your army is likely to be even more clumped than usual because you want them to be under the cloaking field.
I really disagree about recall though. Zerg is mobile, sure, but they also have tiny bases. Recall into a terran main, kill 10 buildings, and it's like, 2 factories 7 depots 1 armory or whatever. recall into a zerg main, kill 6 buildings, and it's the hive pool hydraden spire ultra cavern and defiler mound. It's not always viable, but it can be a game-ending move just like it is in pvt.
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A recall of pure zealot/dt could be nice just to take out some key buildings. I wouldn't count on winning the game with a recall, but can be a strong move to deny a lot of zerg tech.
On the other hand let's say you recall 12-14 zealots and couple DTs.. When zerg realizes you're killing his tech he will instantly replace all key tech structures in other base (defiler, hydra den, spawning pool, spire), and these units will most likely die to hydra/ling/lurker.
Only make sense in very late game scenarios when P is running 5+ bases and you try to do any progress vs lurker/swarm+plage
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i do use arbiters with 4 gas when playing vs mass sunken lurker defiler turtle.
you already have stargate and templar tech, stasis and recalls are never a bad tool to have.
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I like to use arbiters in pvz in late game, it's no deal breaker or anything but it's easy to just have one in your control group - and it's more taxing for your opponent to counter than it is for you to just add it in. I don't play high level though so probably not as good against great zerg players.
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Recall is okay vs 4 bases turtle zerg (considering you are already winning but having a hard time dealing with sunken/spore/lurker).
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On June 12 2017 17:31 XenOsky- wrote:
i do use arbiters with 4 gas when playing vs mass sunken lurker defiler turtle.
you already have stargate and templar tech, stasis and recalls are never a bad tool to have.
This. It just doesn't work very well vs. high level players who will Scourge your shit instantly, and after the first recall expand their defenses to the main bases. If the Sair fleet is still alive, as someone else said, it certainly helps.
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i like throwing an arb into my comp in the lategame (after i have 4 or 5 bases w/ reaver tech), you already have all the tech. i dont even get sairs or anything either, i just try to snipe ovies with my goons and keep an eye out for scourge hit-squads.
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Japan11286 Posts
High level players scourge stuff to the ground relentlessly. Unless you can somehow keep your arbiter alive then it's a pretty cool unit to have. Although don't let this stop you from trying it. Imo, have fun and keep trying it.
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I completely disagree with the pro/cons analysis. Cloak is almost useless against the zerg, if it wasn't people would be going dt + corsair late game. Statis is also pretty much useless, because zergs tend to have like 8 control groups of units, so freezing 5-6 units wont help that much. Recall is actually the most useful ability. I don't understand why people keep talking about zerg's mobility, if you recall 5-6 zealots + 2 archons, a base will die in like 5 seconds.
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you underestimate how hard it is to attack and manage late game armies  , especially with zerg. arbiters are basically to make z's life harder, it makes it harder and less efficient for them to box send groups of units.
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na i just storm them 
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On June 14 2017 03:44 Vuk_91 wrote:
Cloak is almost useless against the zerg, if it wasn't people would be going dt + corsair late game.
People do actually go sair/dt late game sometimes, usually as a response to ultraling
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On June 14 2017 03:44 Vuk_91 wrote:
I completely disagree with the pro/cons analysis. Cloak is almost useless against the zerg, if it wasn't people would be going dt + corsair late game. Statis is also pretty much useless, because zergs tend to have like 8 control groups of units, so freezing 5-6 units wont help that much. Recall is actually the most useful ability. I don't understand why people keep talking about zerg's mobility, if you recall 5-6 zealots + 2 archons, a base will die in like 5 seconds.
If you're only recalling a small force like that, why not just use 2-3 shuttles? Would be cheaper (at least in terms of gas) and faster.
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It's only for breaking a super turtle zerg
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EPT
