What is the optimal build order for a 1 base bio tank push? I couldn't find a build order for it on liquipedia. The 1 factory tank push article seems to be a 2 base strategy.
I experimented somewhat myself and came up with the build below:
9 supply depot 11 barracks 15 supply depot 16 barracks 17 refinery @100 gas: factory (=when second barracks finishes) 23 supply depot 26 academy (constant scv and marine production) (stop scv production after you have 20-21 depending on whether you lost scouting scv or not) 30 supply depot @100% factory: machine shop @100% academy: stim and 2 medics (should have around 12-14 marines) @100% machine shop: tank > siege mode 37 supply depot 2 firebats, another tank, resume marine production marine range @150 gas engineering bay
You should be sieging his natural around 5:45-6:00 with 1 tank 12-13 marines and 2 medics. You'll have 2 firebats at home and are producing more marines and a second tank. The build includes marine range to finish around 6.30 which is the time mutas would be spawning (at the earliest) in a regular 3 hatch build. It also includes an engineering bay for you to start building turrets at the natural/your own main.
Does anyone have a more effective build order? An advantages of my build order is that you can sort of on the fly decide to do this build or just proceed with a regular 1 rax FE. It also hits really early if it's a close spawn, you can be at the natural with siege mode ready at 5:45.
Some precautions: This build is vulnerable to a lot of speedlings (and backstabs/interception of reinforcements) and it is quite all-in in nature as you stay on 1 base. You'll need to be scouting with your SCV for as long as possible.
I think this build could be useful for beginners since they often want to do some cheese or 1 base builds to get more familiar with the units, and to limit the amount of necessary macro.
Every other D-rank south American does this type of play, so I assume they have some teamliquidesque forum where they learn to tank push on one base, but it's a very bad way to play. I'd recommend a 1-base 3 rax play over a tank push any day.
Trutaacz actually lost to a 1 base tank push in the recent fight club edition. I think he assumed ty2 was doing some sort of 1 base 3 rax build so he just build a ton of sunkens and even went lurkers.
There is no optimal BO for this. Every game is fluent. Sometimes you need to cut corners. Sometimes you need to avoid cutting corners. I do agree a quick tank build is the right way to play for TvZ on D rank.
But not sure it should be one base. May work vs zergs that wrongly assume you go two base, or when the fact that they know you are on 1 base doesn't click in their mind, and they stick too much to what they would do vs 2 base.
I myself had quite some success using double ebay quick upgrades. Sometimes with tanks, sometimes without. Is that ayumi? I don't remember.
I think too many amateurs are trying to play SK terran or copy progamers.
9 Supply 10 Rax - make marines non-stop 12 Refinery - 3 SCVs on gas when complete 14 Rax - make marines non-stop 16 Supply 18 Factory - machine shop after unless zerg is going heavy ling then get a vult first - when machine shop finishes start SIEGE research then build a tank 26 Academy - STIM upon complete - build 2 medics - Comsat - Scan for Lurker or Muta. If Muta - build sufficient turrets at home to hold alone with SCV repair. If Lurker - you need to get to Zerg before he can push out with them. 30 Supply As soon as 2 medics and tank pop out - push to zerg base and set up camp 40'ish supply build an Engy Bay - send 2-3 SCVs with your push, by the time you get to Zerg - build a bunker/turret siege up. Slow push. Kill Zerg.
Thanks for the replies guys. Looking forward to that Hiya build if you still have it faust :D Thanks psyonic_reaver.
I'm planning on trying out all the build orders and comparing them with each other (how many bio when moving out, move out time, stim timing, marine range timing, tank timing,...)
It's not for playing against D players per se. I am a coach in this CPL league (D-C ranks) and I think this could be a good build order for a cheese they might want to throw in.
On April 07 2017 00:35 Eridanus wrote: There is no optimal BO for this. Every game is fluent. Sometimes you need to cut corners. Sometimes you need to avoid cutting corners. I do agree a quick tank build is the right way to play for TvZ on D rank.
How can you make this assertion, and then say this:
But not sure it should be one base. May work vs zergs that wrongly assume you go two base, or when the fact that they know you are on 1 base doesn't click in their mind, and they stick too much to what they would do vs 2 base.
I myself had quite some success using double ebay quick upgrades. Sometimes with tanks, sometimes without. Is that ayumi? I don't remember.
I think too many amateurs are trying to play SK terran or copy progamers.
You're saying 1-base play is the correct way to play, but "not sure it should be one base"? And the Ayumi build is a 4 barracks 2-base timing that you cut SCVs and delay engineering bay to do.
Trutaacz actually lost to a 1 base tank push in the recent fight club edition. I think he assumed ty2 was doing some sort of 1 base 3 rax build so he just build a ton of sunkens and even went lurkers.
I think it's a nice little cheese to have in one's back-pocket. It works when it's not expected, and I don't see this type of play above D+ish level, so it's probable that Trutacz was simply caught off-guard by it. So for a 1-game type of deal, it can be good as long as there is no major meta shift towards everyone doing 1-base tank pushes, but is generally not that great for playing a series.
It's always good to have a few unorthodox builds in your back pocket when playing in a series in case you get the gut instinct to mix it up. I have SO many as Protoss it's not even funny haha. But then again..... Protoss....
On April 06 2017 12:20 ninazerg wrote: Every other D-rank south American does this type of play, so I assume they have some teamliquidesque forum where they learn to tank push on one base, but it's a very bad way to play. I'd recommend a 1-base 3 rax play over a tank push any day.
probably the same place the latino protosses learns their 1 base allins? xD
Look up virtually any tvz replay before 2005, I'd imagine. The old Boxer esque style was a 10-12 rax opening with a gas around 20, iirc. Factory after stim. But thats not a build thats explicitly rushing tanks.
edit: heres a more tank rush variant pretty much the build goodfriend did vs july in the OSL finals in 2005 as well (except proxied).
On April 07 2017 00:35 Eridanus wrote: There is no optimal BO for this. Every game is fluent. Sometimes you need to cut corners. Sometimes you need to avoid cutting corners. I do agree a quick tank build is the right way to play for TvZ on D rank.
How can you make this assertion, and then say this:
But not sure it should be one base. May work vs zergs that wrongly assume you go two base, or when the fact that they know you are on 1 base doesn't click in their mind, and they stick too much to what they would do vs 2 base.
I myself had quite some success using double ebay quick upgrades. Sometimes with tanks, sometimes without. Is that ayumi? I don't remember.
I think too many amateurs are trying to play SK terran or copy progamers.
You're saying 1-base play is the correct way to play, but "not sure it should be one base"? And the Ayumi build is a 4 barracks 2-base timing that you cut SCVs and delay engineering bay to do.
I never said I think that one should go 1 base by default. I think one should go into most TvZ's on most maps, vs random players, with the basic idea of going 1 or 2 rax expand, and adapt from there, but going for a quick tank build.
One base plays should be reserved for when you do multiple games vs the same player, specific maps, or players you have reads on. Or for certain unorthodox games that had their initial flow of gameplay disrupted.
In terms of builds, I don't necessarily look at supply to indicate build timing, but I did notice that you build your second barracks at 16. I know that you can make the second barrack at 13 (before second depot), as I do in 2v2. 2nd barrack at 16 means your money would be at 400, which is the timing you would go at 1 rax fe. Your build is heavily delayed from the start.
Investing that early in a seconds barracks does not give you more marines, an earlier tank, or anything. All it does is cause you to have to invest in double marine production early on resulting in a delay of everything else.
Finally I guess you did not read my remarks about the build. The fact that you wait with your 2nd barracks until 16 supply allows you to on-the-fly decide to go for the build (while not hurting its timing at all) or proceed with a regular 1 rax FE. There's no such thing if you decide to open up with a 13 barracks.
Investing later in a second barracks does, in fact, give you less marines and a slower tech path. You're holding onto extra minerals that should already be used for production.
The only thing that matters on this build is execution. If you're doing a build, you want to maximize how effective it is. You cannot do this if you're waiting for 400 minerals to then decide what you want to do. (FYI: there are 0 in-game reasons that would sway you from changing your build order- even if it's 9p speed, 2 rax is stronger than 1 rax fe). Delaying from 13 to 16 supply means your gas and marine count is severely delayed. A build order isn't only about timing- especially if you're cutting 20+ seconds and a significant amount of marines.
Also, you may want to consider rax -> fact -> vulture -> rax -> tank/siege. You can get another tank out with this.
When I get home, I will try these builds and get back to you. I'm solid on my early build timings.
EPT
