What is the optimal build order for a 1 base bio tank push? I couldn't find a build order for it on liquipedia. The 1 factory tank push article seems to be a 2 base strategy.
I experimented somewhat myself and came up with the build below:
9 supply depot 11 barracks 15 supply depot 16 barracks 17 refinery @100 gas: factory (=when second barracks finishes) 23 supply depot 26 academy (constant scv and marine production) (stop scv production after you have 20-21 depending on whether you lost scouting scv or not) 30 supply depot @100% factory: machine shop @100% academy: stim and 2 medics (should have around 12-14 marines) @100% machine shop: tank > siege mode 37 supply depot 2 firebats, another tank, resume marine production marine range @150 gas engineering bay
You should be sieging his natural around 5:45-6:00 with 1 tank 12-13 marines and 2 medics. You'll have 2 firebats at home and are producing more marines and a second tank. The build includes marine range to finish around 6.30 which is the time mutas would be spawning (at the earliest) in a regular 3 hatch build. It also includes an engineering bay for you to start building turrets at the natural/your own main.
Does anyone have a more effective build order? An advantages of my build order is that you can sort of on the fly decide to do this build or just proceed with a regular 1 rax FE. It also hits really early if it's a close spawn, you can be at the natural with siege mode ready at 5:45.
Some precautions: This build is vulnerable to a lot of speedlings (and backstabs/interception of reinforcements) and it is quite all-in in nature as you stay on 1 base. You'll need to be scouting with your SCV for as long as possible.
I think this build could be useful for beginners since they often want to do some cheese or 1 base builds to get more familiar with the units, and to limit the amount of necessary macro.
Every other D-rank south American does this type of play, so I assume they have some teamliquidesque forum where they learn to tank push on one base, but it's a very bad way to play. I'd recommend a 1-base 3 rax play over a tank push any day.
Trutaacz actually lost to a 1 base tank push in the recent fight club edition. I think he assumed ty2 was doing some sort of 1 base 3 rax build so he just build a ton of sunkens and even went lurkers.
There is no optimal BO for this. Every game is fluent. Sometimes you need to cut corners. Sometimes you need to avoid cutting corners. I do agree a quick tank build is the right way to play for TvZ on D rank.
But not sure it should be one base. May work vs zergs that wrongly assume you go two base, or when the fact that they know you are on 1 base doesn't click in their mind, and they stick too much to what they would do vs 2 base.
I myself had quite some success using double ebay quick upgrades. Sometimes with tanks, sometimes without. Is that ayumi? I don't remember.
I think too many amateurs are trying to play SK terran or copy progamers.
9 Supply 10 Rax - make marines non-stop 12 Refinery - 3 SCVs on gas when complete 14 Rax - make marines non-stop 16 Supply 18 Factory - machine shop after unless zerg is going heavy ling then get a vult first - when machine shop finishes start SIEGE research then build a tank 26 Academy - STIM upon complete - build 2 medics - Comsat - Scan for Lurker or Muta. If Muta - build sufficient turrets at home to hold alone with SCV repair. If Lurker - you need to get to Zerg before he can push out with them. 30 Supply As soon as 2 medics and tank pop out - push to zerg base and set up camp 40'ish supply build an Engy Bay - send 2-3 SCVs with your push, by the time you get to Zerg - build a bunker/turret siege up. Slow push. Kill Zerg.
Thanks for the replies guys. Looking forward to that Hiya build if you still have it faust :D Thanks psyonic_reaver.
I'm planning on trying out all the build orders and comparing them with each other (how many bio when moving out, move out time, stim timing, marine range timing, tank timing,...)
It's not for playing against D players per se. I am a coach in this CPL league (D-C ranks) and I think this could be a good build order for a cheese they might want to throw in.
On April 07 2017 00:35 Eridanus wrote: There is no optimal BO for this. Every game is fluent. Sometimes you need to cut corners. Sometimes you need to avoid cutting corners. I do agree a quick tank build is the right way to play for TvZ on D rank.
How can you make this assertion, and then say this:
But not sure it should be one base. May work vs zergs that wrongly assume you go two base, or when the fact that they know you are on 1 base doesn't click in their mind, and they stick too much to what they would do vs 2 base.
I myself had quite some success using double ebay quick upgrades. Sometimes with tanks, sometimes without. Is that ayumi? I don't remember.
I think too many amateurs are trying to play SK terran or copy progamers.
You're saying 1-base play is the correct way to play, but "not sure it should be one base"? And the Ayumi build is a 4 barracks 2-base timing that you cut SCVs and delay engineering bay to do.
Trutaacz actually lost to a 1 base tank push in the recent fight club edition. I think he assumed ty2 was doing some sort of 1 base 3 rax build so he just build a ton of sunkens and even went lurkers.
I think it's a nice little cheese to have in one's back-pocket. It works when it's not expected, and I don't see this type of play above D+ish level, so it's probable that Trutacz was simply caught off-guard by it. So for a 1-game type of deal, it can be good as long as there is no major meta shift towards everyone doing 1-base tank pushes, but is generally not that great for playing a series.
It's always good to have a few unorthodox builds in your back pocket when playing in a series in case you get the gut instinct to mix it up. I have SO many as Protoss it's not even funny haha. But then again..... Protoss....
On April 06 2017 12:20 ninazerg wrote: Every other D-rank south American does this type of play, so I assume they have some teamliquidesque forum where they learn to tank push on one base, but it's a very bad way to play. I'd recommend a 1-base 3 rax play over a tank push any day.
probably the same place the latino protosses learns their 1 base allins? xD
Look up virtually any tvz replay before 2005, I'd imagine. The old Boxer esque style was a 10-12 rax opening with a gas around 20, iirc. Factory after stim. But thats not a build thats explicitly rushing tanks.
edit: heres a more tank rush variant pretty much the build goodfriend did vs july in the OSL finals in 2005 as well (except proxied).
On April 07 2017 00:35 Eridanus wrote: There is no optimal BO for this. Every game is fluent. Sometimes you need to cut corners. Sometimes you need to avoid cutting corners. I do agree a quick tank build is the right way to play for TvZ on D rank.
How can you make this assertion, and then say this:
But not sure it should be one base. May work vs zergs that wrongly assume you go two base, or when the fact that they know you are on 1 base doesn't click in their mind, and they stick too much to what they would do vs 2 base.
I myself had quite some success using double ebay quick upgrades. Sometimes with tanks, sometimes without. Is that ayumi? I don't remember.
I think too many amateurs are trying to play SK terran or copy progamers.
You're saying 1-base play is the correct way to play, but "not sure it should be one base"? And the Ayumi build is a 4 barracks 2-base timing that you cut SCVs and delay engineering bay to do.
I never said I think that one should go 1 base by default. I think one should go into most TvZ's on most maps, vs random players, with the basic idea of going 1 or 2 rax expand, and adapt from there, but going for a quick tank build.
One base plays should be reserved for when you do multiple games vs the same player, specific maps, or players you have reads on. Or for certain unorthodox games that had their initial flow of gameplay disrupted.
In terms of builds, I don't necessarily look at supply to indicate build timing, but I did notice that you build your second barracks at 16. I know that you can make the second barrack at 13 (before second depot), as I do in 2v2. 2nd barrack at 16 means your money would be at 400, which is the timing you would go at 1 rax fe. Your build is heavily delayed from the start.
Investing that early in a seconds barracks does not give you more marines, an earlier tank, or anything. All it does is cause you to have to invest in double marine production early on resulting in a delay of everything else.
Finally I guess you did not read my remarks about the build. The fact that you wait with your 2nd barracks until 16 supply allows you to on-the-fly decide to go for the build (while not hurting its timing at all) or proceed with a regular 1 rax FE. There's no such thing if you decide to open up with a 13 barracks.
Investing later in a second barracks does, in fact, give you less marines and a slower tech path. You're holding onto extra minerals that should already be used for production.
The only thing that matters on this build is execution. If you're doing a build, you want to maximize how effective it is. You cannot do this if you're waiting for 400 minerals to then decide what you want to do. (FYI: there are 0 in-game reasons that would sway you from changing your build order- even if it's 9p speed, 2 rax is stronger than 1 rax fe). Delaying from 13 to 16 supply means your gas and marine count is severely delayed. A build order isn't only about timing- especially if you're cutting 20+ seconds and a significant amount of marines.
Also, you may want to consider rax -> fact -> vulture -> rax -> tank/siege. You can get another tank out with this.
When I get home, I will try these builds and get back to you. I'm solid on my early build timings.
On April 12 2017 22:09 ortseam wrote: If he scouts 2 hatch muta, that's a good reason to not go for tank push (muta timing is 5:50-6:00)
... but you don't know that at 13 or 16 supply. You can't wait until you scout what your opponent is doing before executing a build, especially an aggro one. If you want to bust early tvz then you better be damn good at your build and not accumulating 400 minerals
On April 07 2017 00:35 Eridanus wrote: There is no optimal BO for this. Every game is fluent. Sometimes you need to cut corners. Sometimes you need to avoid cutting corners. I do agree a quick tank build is the right way to play for TvZ on D rank.
How can you make this assertion, and then say this:
But not sure it should be one base. May work vs zergs that wrongly assume you go two base, or when the fact that they know you are on 1 base doesn't click in their mind, and they stick too much to what they would do vs 2 base.
I myself had quite some success using double ebay quick upgrades. Sometimes with tanks, sometimes without. Is that ayumi? I don't remember.
I think too many amateurs are trying to play SK terran or copy progamers.
You're saying 1-base play is the correct way to play, but "not sure it should be one base"? And the Ayumi build is a 4 barracks 2-base timing that you cut SCVs and delay engineering bay to do.
I never said I think that one should go 1 base by default. I think one should go into most TvZ's on most maps, vs random players, with the basic idea of going 1 or 2 rax expand, and adapt from there, but going for a quick tank build.
One base plays should be reserved for when you do multiple games vs the same player, specific maps, or players you have reads on. Or for certain unorthodox games that had their initial flow of gameplay disrupted.
Blindly going 2rax against random is not logical. This is something I would refer to as responding to an "imaginary threat", which is a trap many new players fall into. You know, that player who builds a ring of turrets around their whole base because they think, "Well, my opponent might be going air." This sort of akin to buying a new house, and then immediately investing 1,000 dollars into mouse-traps and other mouse counter-measures to get rid of the mice, and then find out the house is rodent-free. "There could have been mice." the buyer may say, and while they are technically correct in the sense that a rodent-infestation may have been possible, by simply taking the time to assess the situation in a logical manner, the poor 'investment' could have been avoided altogether.
Here's how this applies to Brood War: In TvR, you have to think of certain possibilities. If our opponent is Terran, they might go proxy double barracks, or if our opponent is Protoss, they might go double gateways, or if our opponent is Zerg, they might go 9 pool or 5 pool. If one plans on going 2 rax no matter what, then that's fine and okay and stuff. But if their plan includes getting an expansion so they can afford a factory-mech army, or a big infantry force supported by tanks and vessels, then that player absolutely should ask themselves: "Should I delay my overall plan because of a threat that may or may not be real, or can I realistically defend against that threat with just one barracks?"
So, you play someone who picks random on Matchpoint and you send an SCV to scout them out a little bit early, just to see what's happening in their neck of the woods. You go up to their base and see a nexus, but nothing else. Uh oh, proxy gateways. But because you're smart, you built a wall-off at your entrance. The only thing you need to check is if they built gateways IN your base. So you send one SCV, see that it's clear, so you know zealots are going to hit from the outside of your base. Then you defend that nonsense, send a vulture into his base, and voila, that noob paid the price for his lack of vision. By doing some simple scouting, and assessing the situation logically, you never had to make a second barracks.
Am I saying that a second barracks is never needed? No. If you see a situation that warrants a second barracks, then build it. You might need it to get the marine numbers to stop zerglings from running into your base during a 5pool. In most cases, there will not be a need to EVER go 2rax expo. Some pre-2006 pros liked to go 2rax expo, but then people developed a better sense of the game's flow and realized that the second barracks was unnecessary.
Actually Demurity I have tested both variations, 13 rax and 16 rax. Your tech is delayed or your barracks will be idling if you go for a 13 barracks. Investing in the early 13 barracks forces you to utilize the barracks, which is another 50 minerals you have to dedicate towards marine production every 15 seconds when you want to invest into an academy/factory/scvs.
I'm interested in what you will come up with, please report your results.
Also at 16 supply it is very much possible to know what your opponent is doing if you scout him on first try.
On April 07 2017 00:35 Eridanus wrote: There is no optimal BO for this. Every game is fluent. Sometimes you need to cut corners. Sometimes you need to avoid cutting corners. I do agree a quick tank build is the right way to play for TvZ on D rank.
How can you make this assertion, and then say this:
But not sure it should be one base. May work vs zergs that wrongly assume you go two base, or when the fact that they know you are on 1 base doesn't click in their mind, and they stick too much to what they would do vs 2 base.
I myself had quite some success using double ebay quick upgrades. Sometimes with tanks, sometimes without. Is that ayumi? I don't remember.
I think too many amateurs are trying to play SK terran or copy progamers.
You're saying 1-base play is the correct way to play, but "not sure it should be one base"? And the Ayumi build is a 4 barracks 2-base timing that you cut SCVs and delay engineering bay to do.
I never said I think that one should go 1 base by default. I think one should go into most TvZ's on most maps, vs random players, with the basic idea of going 1 or 2 rax expand, and adapt from there, but going for a quick tank build.
One base plays should be reserved for when you do multiple games vs the same player, specific maps, or players you have reads on. Or for certain unorthodox games that had their initial flow of gameplay disrupted.
Blindly going 2rax against random is not logical. This is something I would refer to as responding to an "imaginary threat", which is a trap many new players fall into. You know, that player who builds a ring of turrets around their whole base because they think, "Well, my opponent might be going air." This sort of akin to buying a new house, and then immediately investing 1,000 dollars into mouse-traps and other mouse counter-measures to get rid of the mice, and then find out the house is rodent-free. "There could have been mice." the buyer may say, and while they are technically correct in the sense that a rodent-infestation may have been possible, by simply taking the time to assess the situation in a logical manner, the poor 'investment' could have been avoided altogether.
Here's how this applies to Brood War: In TvR, you have to think of certain possibilities. If our opponent is Terran, they might go proxy double barracks, or if our opponent is Protoss, they might go double gateways, or if our opponent is Zerg, they might go 9 pool or 5 pool. If one plans on going 2 rax no matter what, then that's fine and okay and stuff. But if their plan includes getting an expansion so they can afford a factory-mech army, or a big infantry force supported by tanks and vessels, then that player absolutely should ask themselves: "Should I delay my overall plan because of a threat that may or may not be real, or can I realistically defend against that threat with just one barracks?"
So, you play someone who picks random on Matchpoint and you send an SCV to scout them out a little bit early, just to see what's happening in their neck of the woods. You go up to their base and see a nexus, but nothing else. Uh oh, proxy gateways. But because you're smart, you built a wall-off at your entrance. The only thing you need to check is if they built gateways IN your base. So you send one SCV, see that it's clear, so you know zealots are going to hit from the outside of your base. Then you defend that nonsense, send a vulture into his base, and voila, that noob paid the price for his lack of vision. By doing some simple scouting, and assessing the situation logically, you never had to make a second barracks.
Am I saying that a second barracks is never needed? No. If you see a situation that warrants a second barracks, then build it. You might need it to get the marine numbers to stop zerglings from running into your base during a 5pool. In most cases, there will not be a need to EVER go 2rax expo. Some pre-2006 pros liked to go 2rax expo, but then people developed a better sense of the game's flow and realized that the second barracks was unnecessary.
Two rax against random? I specifically mentioned one should consider both 1 and 2 rax before expand in TvZ vs a Z playing standard.
On April 13 2017 04:27 B-royal wrote: Actually Demurity I have tested both variations, 13 rax and 16 rax. Your tech is delayed or your barracks will be idling if you go for a 13 barracks. Investing in the early 13 barracks forces you to utilize the barracks, which is another 50 minerals you have to dedicate towards marine production every 15 seconds when you want to invest into an academy/factory/scvs.
I'm interested in what you will come up with, please report your results.
Also at 16 supply it is very much possible to know what your opponent is doing if you scout him on first try.
I understand what you're saying, but one base play is very delicate. Yes tech may be delayed, but your push will be significantly more effective if you do it right. Your logic is saying: I can get my push out 30 seconds faster if I just delay my production facilities and gas, cut scvs, and cut marines. But at what cost? Yes, this is all conjecture for now, but I think you should be able to have a few extra marines and another tank my way. I'll get back to you when I finish my testing- I think I'll be able to do it today.
At 16 supply yes, you can scout him on the first try. But like I said before, this doesn't change anything of your build if your only question is: do I go 2 rax build or 1 rax fe? If you scout 12h, then your push is viable. If you scout 9p, 2 rax will hold better than 1 rax fe will. And this still under the assumption you scout him first, which is unreliable.
I'm not trying to bash you, just showing my logic process.
I did 3 trials. One your way, one mine, and another variation. I played against a CPU (just for build), so take the raw attack timings with a grain of salt, but it still is relative to each other.
Your way hit adjacent enemy base at 5:45. 12 marine with stim, 2 medic, 1 tank with siege.
My way hit adjacent enemy base at 5:00. 12 marine with stim, 2 medic, 1 tank with siege.
Variant hit at 5:30. Was very sloppy, not really worth noting.
Your way had significantly better econ (obviously, as you basically hold onto high amounts of minerals and dont cut scv). My way hit significantly earlier and required some scv cuts in small pockets. With 1 base timing, it's pretty risky to push at 5:45 as this build will easily fall to 2 base muta play. With good execution, maybe 5:30 timing can win outright.
On April 14 2017 10:56 Demurity wrote: I did 3 trials. One your way, one mine, and another variation. I played against a CPU (just for build), so take the raw attack timings with a grain of salt, but it still is relative to each other.
Your way hit adjacent enemy base at 5:45. 12 marine with stim, 2 medic, 1 tank with siege.
My way hit adjacent enemy base at 5:00. 12 marine with stim, 2 medic, 1 tank with siege.
Variant hit at 5:30. Was very sloppy, not really worth noting.
Your way had significantly better econ (obviously, as you basically hold onto high amounts of minerals and dont cut scv). My way hit significantly earlier and required some scv cuts in small pockets. With 1 base timing, it's pretty risky to push at 5:45 as this build will easily fall to 2 base muta play. With good execution, maybe 5:30 timing can win outright.
That's actually crazy difference. 45s from a rax three supply earlier. Difference between 5 and 545 is pretty huge
On April 14 2017 10:56 Demurity wrote: I did 3 trials. One your way, one mine, and another variation. I played against a CPU (just for build), so take the raw attack timings with a grain of salt, but it still is relative to each other.
Your way hit adjacent enemy base at 5:45. 12 marine with stim, 2 medic, 1 tank with siege.
My way hit adjacent enemy base at 5:00. 12 marine with stim, 2 medic, 1 tank with siege.
Variant hit at 5:30. Was very sloppy, not really worth noting.
Your way had significantly better econ (obviously, as you basically hold onto high amounts of minerals and dont cut scv). My way hit significantly earlier and required some scv cuts in small pockets. With 1 base timing, it's pretty risky to push at 5:45 as this build will easily fall to 2 base muta play. With good execution, maybe 5:30 timing can win outright.
That's quite an early timing. Would you mind posting the build you converged on, and maybe a replay? Thanks.
According to my experience with this strategy it's impossible to get a 12 marine 2 medic 1 tank push with siege mode and stim finished at 5:00. Just to get a tank out in time you need to go for regular mech timings, ie 11 rax 12 gas and factory immediately when you have 100 gas, I even think you have to delay the scv at 16 that puts you at 17, or the supply at 15. And you need 150 minerals for a second rax before that too. Forget 11 rax, 13 rax 13 gas. It's not fast enough. I assume you scout at 12 and you're playing on a normal map (not Python).
5:30-5:45 is realistic timings and early is not necessarily better. Even at the 5:45 timing you need to cut a lot of scv's. In my experience you will have to cut marines too, in order to get a push at 5 mins, or delay the second rax very long.
I mean, my personal build aims at 5:40~ and I was initially going with a 13 rax, but I delayed it to 15-16 just like B-royal did, because I realized that I couldn't build marines constantly anyway. And you're saying that you can not only get a 13 rax while maintaining constant marine production, but also get all the supply, the gas, factory, academy, tank, siege mode and stim 40 seconds earlier than me.
When I see it I will believe that it's possible.
The point of this build is not to auto-win. Although that sometimes happens against greedy 3 hatch play, you can't rely on that to happen. Your main goal is to destroy the 2nd mining base and contain and then slowpush the rest. I have even won games when I failed to destroy the hatchery before the 3h mutas popped. What happens depends on what he throws at you.
Flash did a similar build against GGPlay in the Daum OSL. But he started with a BBS and fake bunker rush, I think because he wanted to delay the gas timing and force some early sunkens. + Show Spoiler +
For those who are interested in similar strategies. Back in around 2002, Sync and Boxer and maybe some other terran would do delayed variants on this strategy. Their builds looked more like a normal 2 rax tech build, they focused on getting a contain up outside the nat, ideally with a proxy factory, and then they pushed slowly. I have not tried this variant myself. While it's more economical the tanks are delayed.
On April 17 2017 05:16 L1ghtning wrote: According to my experience with this strategy it's impossible to get a 12 marine 2 medic 1 tank push with siege mode and stim finished at 5:00. Just to get a tank out in time you need to go for regular mech timings, ie 11 rax 12 gas and factory immediately when you have 100 gas, I even think you have to delay the scv at 16 that puts you at 17, or the supply at 15. And you need 150 minerals for a second rax before that too. Forget 11 rax, 13 rax 13 gas. It's not fast enough. I assume you scout at 12 and you're playing on a normal map (not Python).
5:30-5:45 is realistic timings and early is not necessarily better. Even at the 5:45 timing you need to cut a lot of scv's. In my experience you will have to cut marines too, in order to get a push at 5 mins, or delay the second rax very long.
I mean, my personal build aims at 5:40~ and I was initially going with a 13 rax, but I delayed it to 15-16 just like B-royal did, because I realized that I couldn't build marines constantly anyway. And you're saying that you can not only get a 13 rax while maintaining constant marine production, but also get all the supply, the gas, factory, academy, tank, siege mode and stim 40 seconds earlier than me.
When I see it I will believe that it's possible.
The point of this build is not to auto-win. Although that sometimes happens against greedy 3 hatch play, you can't rely on that to happen. Your main goal is to destroy the 2nd mining base and contain and then slowpush the rest. I have even won games when I failed to destroy the hatchery before the 3h mutas popped. What happens depends on what he throws at you.
I'll dig up the replay. I'm pretty sure I skipped scouting, it just hurts econ too much too early. Don't even need to scout because of this build.
5:00 is the lowest bound by when you can attack. And no, I don't believe I constantly made marines. That significantly slows down when you can get your tank out. This build depends entirely on timing. I'd say the likelihood of failing if you don't reach zerg base by 6:00 is near certain if they go 3h muta. It will definitely fail if they go 2h muta.
Don't listen to anything that has been said, only me please
This is not the way to do 1 base mm tank push, let me show you a build order Boxer did massively while playing WGTour ages ago and it is deadly.
here is the replay 1.16, keep in mind that you can build fact outside your base if you really want to be aggressive.
This is not good to go out of your base with only one tank because zerg will see it and have more time to prepare because one tank is simply too slow to kill sunken, while if you push with 2, once you killed 2 sunken you can stim with marine the 2 others.
at 5min45 second you go out with 12 marine 2 medic. You start siege mode upgrade at the same time you build your second tank, it will finish just when you are about to push zerg natural. The best way to take zerg by surprise is to wall, he will expect some cheesy vulture starport most likely while in fact.... kabooom
This is boxer approved I did not invent it I recommend you test it, this build order is so strong it kills easily 2 hatch muta, the only way to deny that is to anticipate with mass ling or build sunken far in front of your natural to buy time.
if you see 2 hatch muta then build engineering bay when you go out and bring 2 scv to build turrent if ever you get delayed with sunken.
This bo is even better now coze most players won't expect it and I died a couple of times on fish because of it.
edit : this one is taking gas at 18 but you can take it earlier like 14 or 16, but with 18 you have a more optimal eco, also the timing is more like 5min45, usually the timing wants that you can stim on natural just before the muta come out for a 2 hatch build.
On Python, with closed rush distances, when you move out zerg will have problems even letting their additional sunkens finished. So not sure why you think it is weak there. On Blue Storm, I can kind of see it. But then again, getting a siege tank sieging the natural is still powerful. The hard part will be getting there without backstabs or surrounds, in the case they are prepared.
As Nina said, this is not a very good build. It might catch some zergs off-guard once, but smart zergs will beat it easily with a little bit of thinking even if it's unexpected.
That's why I said you should only use it on players you have a read on, or that think they have a read on you, and are therefore assuming or cutting corners, rather than for random games vs random (not race wise) opponents online. It is not a good build in a vacuum, I agree.
Used to do this pretty often, stopped after people learned how to muta micro because then it stopped working. I had success with both 2 rax openings and super fast versions where I'd go 1 rax factory and use a vulture to clear out lings.
One really cool thing you can do when pulling this off is to build your engbay offensively and then place it directly over the tank you have shelling down his sunkens, as quite often, you'll see zergs pick off the tank in two volleys because they need to buy more time.
There is no conventional way to use a timing push in brood war, it can work anytime against anyone, it depends on how you do it, it is the mind game that will make a timing push work, and there is also a part of randomness because if zerg sees a wall or a 2 rax that's a lot of possibilities and he can't defend all of them with one build order, no matter how smart he is, he won't figure it out early enough to adjust his build, there is a lot of gambling for zerg vs terran tech bo.
Very simple example :
zerg sees 2 rax opening he tells himself "terran might go for an early mm push to force me putting sunk, im just gonna drone up to have a good eco not making zergling" well too bad coze when terran gets out at 5min45 he has mm, 2 tanks and zerg has nothing to buy time or pick up reinforcements, terran pushes, GG. As simple as that.
As all timing push build order, you won't become world champion just doing that, but this is an easy way one time victory if you need it.
EPT
