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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 18 2006 16:32 CGMU wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2006 15:44 BalloonFight wrote:On August 18 2006 15:25 iNsaNe- wrote:
I'm rudely hijacking this thread for my own selfish purposes and asking where do you get that LiveAPM-thing? Download BWlauncher if you don't have it already. Then run that with b-net. Then in game type (backslash)apmlive (or (backslash)liveapm, i forgot which one.  ) And to the guy who said tvp is imbalanced because of early game zealots: No. Give reasons, dont just say NO.and it is imbalanced since terran must wall-in to survive the rush
Hehe, I remember back in the good old days, before Luna was ever created.. I used to play PvT PvZ TvP and because I was (am) crazy (or just trying to be contrary, much like how I picked protoss - everyone said they were the weakest - and I insist on defending PvZ as a balanced matchup - and have for most of the time I've played BW), I naturally decided to copy the most unique terran player for my TvP.
Who?
V-Gundam.
Never, ever walls in (now there's tons of people who don't but back then everyone except him and a couple of others - boxer doing it every now and then - walled).
Ah man, only did gundam rushes for more than a year, probably 2. Wasn't great at it tho, but fun build.
Ahem, back to the point: no, you don't need to wall-in to survive, make non-stop marines from the barrack, maybe get a vulture before your machineshop if he insists on making more zealots.
Position them at ramp.
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sexy pics... Now when i get the urge to change race i wont die in 3mins on luna tvp like normal ^^;
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If it's in that exact position, there is no way a zealot can hit it.
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17070 Posts
On August 19 2006 16:53 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2006 11:21 OverTheUnder wrote:On August 18 2006 10:49 Night[Mare] wrote:On August 17 2006 12:35 intrigue wrote:
yeah lings can get in in fact zerglings get anywhere no true afaik:X There are certain maps, and building placements where u can block completely. I remember on LT, a factory and acadamy did just that. (I want to say a xellos or nad game where they went 2 port wraith) Obvioisly wont matter vs 9 pool, but still;P Rax/depot on 9 LT stops lings AFAIK Show nested quote +On August 18 2006 12:32 CGMU wrote:On August 18 2006 10:27 Mortality wrote:
PvT is not a hard match-up. Don't even try to complain about it.
This guide was very informative, very good. Of course, its not a hard macth-up for toss because PvT IS imbalanced.,:terran needs perfect building placements to SURVIVE a zealot rush.and why i think PvT is imbalanced?because terran doesnt have an early static defense, like cannons or sunkens,. I just raped the above poster lolololo
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[QUOTE]On August 19 2006 16:53 GrandInquisitor wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 18 2006 11:21 OverTheUnder wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 18 2006 10:49 Night[Mare] wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 17 2006 12:35 intrigue wrote:
yeah lings can get in[/QUOTE]
in fact zerglings get anywhere[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On August 18 2006 12:32 CGMU wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 18 2006 10:27 Mortality wrote:
PvT is not a hard match-up. Don't even try to complain about it.
This guide was very informative, very good.[/QUOTE]
Of course, its not a hard macth-up for toss because PvT IS imbalanced.,:terran needs perfect building placements to SURVIVE a zealot rush.and why i think PvT is imbalanced?because terran doesnt have an early static defense, like cannons or sunkens,.[/QUOTE]
Ignoring obviously bad maps like Guillotine...
1. Let's take a look at stats. [url=http://www.pgtour.net/ladder.stats.php]http://www.pgtour.net/ladder.stats.php[/url] , [url=http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=15963]http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=15963[/url] , [url=http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=15932]http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=15932[/url]
2. But wait, stats mean nothing. (insert rant about good players v bad players). Okay, let's try to find other Terrans sharing a similar concern as you do, as clearly it is a serious problem if they face such enormous odds stacked against them in every TvP. So let's try to find people whining about PvT imbalance by searching for "PvT imbalance" at TeamLiquid. [url=http://teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=%22pvt+imbalance%22]http://teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=%22pvt+imbalance%22[/url] , aka no results, as none of those threads mention that PvT is imbalanced. Compare to [url=http://teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=%22pvz+imbalance%22]http://teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=%22pvz+imbalance%22[/url]
3. But let's imagine, that despite this overwhelming evidence, let's pretend that you, CGMU, have stumbled upon something that no one has yet discovered in a game dating back many many years, a game in which zealot rush v Terran must never have been attempted despite it being mainstream against both other races, and this monumental discovery could be one that would allow you to go down in history with such other brilliant Starcraft strategists such as the author of the Official Prima Strategy Guide and that guy that peddles that ProGamer book that Leg did a chapter for. So let's consider your masterful reasoning.
[quote]terran needs perfect building placements to SURVIVE a zealot rush[/quote]
(I'm not even going to dignify your comment on lack of static defense with a response. Not only does T have static defense:
[img]http://www.rpgclassics.com/subsites/starcraft/images/bunker.gif[/img]
anyone who needs to use them in TvP is about as deserving of posting in the Strategy Forum of this website as a wasted baboon.)
According to you, you need to wall-in in order to "SURVIVE" a zealot rush (ignoring such trivialities like "micro" or "not sucking hard at build order", since attack-move is obviously all anyone needs).
Therefore, on maps where you can't wall-in, it's impossible to "SURVIVE" said zealot rush without "perfect" building placement.
Which is why, of course, Terran loses every single TvP game on Luna, or Hunters, or Blizzard's old LT at the 6 position, or any of the other eighty thousand maps where walling is impossible.
Goddamn, you should be in Korea winning every tournament with nothing but your juggernaut war-machine zealots raping every T ever. Who needs micro and macro when you have your PATENTED CGMU PVT ZEALOT RUSH FREEWIN ability?[/QUOTE]
?? korea?no thanks,i and by the way i say early static defense, zergs have sunkens, toss have cannons, and terran must wait until barracks is made to have a bunker and then fil it with marines,¿dont you think is fair for terran to have something similar tu a cannons or a sunken?that can be made early, before making any barracks ?
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Sweden33719 Posts
CGMU:
Zerg has to make a spawning pool before they can make a sunken.
Protoss has to make a forge before they can make a cannon.
The bunker is by far the faster of the 3 ; [ (ie you don't need to make a special building for it, unlike toss forge, no creep colony before it either).
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God CGMU shut up.
Skyglow, I was vaguely familiar with the concept of sticking Marines between buildings to be invulnerable to zealots, but your illustrations really fleshed it out clearly for me. Sweet stuff, props  .
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I don't know if many people know this, so I decided to share some anti-ling building placements:
So basicly, they have problems going between supply and academy, this works on many maps, but I chose lost temple because I knew all positions. Also there are certain perfect-blocks with 2 buildings like on 9 lt, or 1 o'clock memory cell. Probably many of you knew but, for those who didn't, maybe this helps.
P.S. I'm not a terran player so if any of this contradicts game logic in any way (like academy too soon), don't come to me asking for B.O.s or smth.
Edit: shrunk them a bit so they're faster to load.
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isnt academy and supply the same size? o.O
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On August 20 2006 05:33 superjoppe wrote:
isnt academy and supply the same size? o.O
i think it has more to do with how they are shaped. supplies have more room between them when placed at an angle next to each other i guess. cool find though. But honestly, unless you are doing something wierd TvZ. you don't really need a wall, and by the time you get an academy, you would definitely have enough rines to hold your ramp in the first place, with bats and meds ready to go.
the only time where i think this would be somewhat useful is in a 2v2, where you may want to biomech and what not. the only time i would wall would be on the 9 spot LT, just out of sheer convenience.
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Yes, I use those for 2v2 when I play random, but if you don't mind lifting you can do it in 1v1 too, just to stop z from sneaking in when you leave home base, or try a drop and are scared of 3-hatch-lings, and the likes. Please note that academy on the right with supply on the left will NOT hold off lings, you need to have a supply depot on the right side of the academy in order for this small trick to work.
Also, as a basic rule, small units have it harder to pass between two different types of buildings (supply+acad, supply+barrax, barracks + fact)
This thing was used by boxer or nada, but it was one of my favourite blocks vs toss back in my terran days because of the fact that factory has a lot more HP than supply. Also holds off lings perfectly, so it works in 2v2. Sadly, I haven't tried this on other maps (machine shop sold separately):
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On August 19 2006 16:53 GrandInquisitor wrote:
and this monumental discovery could be one that would allow you to go down in history with such other brilliant Starcraft strategists such as the author of the Official Prima Strategy Guide and that guy that peddles that ProGamer book that Leg did a chapter for.
BAHAHAHAHA
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Very cool thread, I'll be sure to tell every one of my Terran friends
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 20 2006 05:57 Myxomatosis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2006 05:33 superjoppe wrote:
isnt academy and supply the same size? o.O i think it has more to do with how they are shaped. supplies have more room between them when placed at an angle next to each other i guess. cool find though. But honestly, unless you are doing something wierd TvZ. you don't really need a wall, and by the time you get an academy, you would definitely have enough rines to hold your ramp in the first place, with bats and meds ready to go. the only time where i think this would be somewhat useful is in a 2v2, where you may want to biomech and what not. the only time i would wall would be on the 9 spot LT, just out of sheer convenience.
Hehe, I remember a cool game between kiwi and, hm.... Some zerg, maybe Liquid`Crystal? Anyway, he used that block Cube showed for 3 o clock and went wraiths and shit  It was really fun, don't have it anymore tho.
Nice thread btw
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Osaka27174 Posts
great thread. Another one for the recomended thread section.
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the title of this thread is "placement vs zealots", why do you put pictures of how to stop lings?.stupid.
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On August 20 2006 19:14 CGMU wrote:
the title of this thread is "placement vs zealots", why do you put pictures of how to stop lings?.stupid.
coming from the guy who claims PvT is imbalanced because of the zealot rush. keep it up!
edit: nvm didn't mean annoying peruvians as a blanket term. just him and darki.
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yes , its imbalanced.but maybe you are toss so you dont care
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Osaka27174 Posts
On August 20 2006 19:20 CGMU wrote:
yes , its imbalanced.but maybe you are toss so you dont care
Stop posting in this thread. You are not adding anything to the discussion.
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On August 20 2006 19:18 Myxomatosis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2006 19:14 CGMU wrote:
the title of this thread is "placement vs zealots", why do you put pictures of how to stop lings?.stupid. coming from the guy who claims PvT is imbalanced because of the zealot rush. keep it up! edit: I dont want to make another post, but no, I play terran. You are really retarded though, and with the recent bans of annoying peruvians... I'm kinda hoping the trend continues and you disappear too.
Americans are annoying too, a lot more, you are the perfect example. fucking gay.lol
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