EPT! [G] TvP Building palcement vs Zealots - Page 3
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dronebabo
10866 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
This guide was very informative, very good. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On August 17 2006 16:44 IIICodeIIIIIII wrote: no no no, you should lift your command center, tell your scvs to stop, and float your rax to land as close to minerals as possible. then tell ur command center to land. this will slow down your minerals, but hey, if you lose, you're terran so who cares. <------------- p player. pvt is hard enough as it is. without little things like this. why not rush with this? huh?? huh!!? Brilliant Idea! Terran rushes protoss with a handful of SCV/marines and build mass supply depots instead of bunkers and micros them to death. Sounds like an awesome way to toy a newb eh? xD | ||
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outqast
United States287 Posts
On August 18 2006 02:27 skyglow1 wrote: Try set it up exactly like the 4th pic, you don't need the cc on the left but place the supply depot like that in relation to the rax. It worked in the test game I used for the screen shots  This is what happened when i tried it :-( ![[image loading]](http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/7466/scscrnshot081806102222qk8.png) ![[image loading]](http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/3472/scscrnshot081806102223ka6.png) | ||
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Night[Mare
Mexico4793 Posts
On August 17 2006 12:35 intrigue wrote: yeah lings can get in in fact zerglings get anywhere | ||
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Night[Mare
Mexico4793 Posts
On August 18 2006 10:27 Mortality wrote: PvT is not a hard match-up. Don't even try to complain about it. This guide was very informative, very good. remember protoss need to whine about how imba sc is and that protoss suck so much. | ||
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OverTheUnder
United States2929 Posts
no true afaik:X There are certain maps, and building placements where u can block completely. I remember on LT, a factory and acadamy did just that. (I want to say a xellos or nad game where they went 2 port wraith) Obvioisly wont matter vs 9 pool, but still;P | ||
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CGMU
Peru48 Posts
On August 18 2006 10:27 Mortality wrote: PvT is not a hard match-up. Don't even try to complain about it. This guide was very informative, very good. Of course, its not a hard macth-up for toss because PvT IS imbalanced.,:terran needs perfect building placements to SURVIVE a zealot rush.and why i think PvT is imbalanced?because terran doesnt have an early static defense, like cannons or sunkens,. | ||
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Heen
Korea (South)2178 Posts
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
On August 18 2006 12:32 CGMU wrote: Of course, its not a hard macth-up for toss because PvT IS imbalanced.,:terran needs perfect building placements to SURVIVE a zealot rush.and why i think PvT is imbalanced?because terran doesnt have an early static defense, like cannons or sunkens,. no... rofl u can stop a zlot rush perfectly just with marine/scv micro | ||
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Never Post
United Kingdom503 Posts
You're meant to run through, not just stand in between, because the Zealot can't fit through. | ||
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iNsaNe-
Finland5201 Posts
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BalloonFight
United States2007 Posts
On August 18 2006 15:25 iNsaNe- wrote: I'm rudely hijacking this thread for my own selfish purposes and asking where do you get that LiveAPM-thing? Download BWlauncher if you don't have it already. Then run that with b-net. Then in game type (backslash)apmlive (or (backslash)liveapm, i forgot which one.  ) And to the guy who said tvp is imbalanced because of early game zealots: No. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On August 18 2006 12:32 CGMU wrote: Of course, its not a hard macth-up for toss because PvT IS imbalanced.,:terran needs perfect building placements to SURVIVE a zealot rush.and why i think PvT is imbalanced?because terran doesnt have an early static defense, like cannons or sunkens,. thats the least of the problems | ||
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CGMU
Peru48 Posts
On August 18 2006 15:44 BalloonFight wrote: Download BWlauncher if you don't have it already. Then run that with b-net. Then in game type (backslash)apmlive (or (backslash)liveapm, i forgot which one. ) And to the guy who said tvp is imbalanced because of early game zealots: No. Give reasons, dont just say NO.and it is imbalanced since terran must wall-in to survive the rush | ||
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skyglow1
New Zealand3962 Posts
On August 18 2006 10:02 MyLittlePwny wrote: Intresting concept, usefull in early game, but the second a goon shows up with a zeal or 2 your in trouble. After initial rush having a choke point is very important. This opening will lead to intense micro for terran costing him time, Perhaps opening with 8 rax will stop the proxy rush but where will that leave u in terms of tech timing. I would like to see an 8-9 rax opening for a metal build on maps such as these. hmm...8 rax 1 fact 1 port may be effective (vults or tanks ur choice keeping in mind how much toss has spent on zeals). But i myself usually have no trouble holding a proxy with 10 rax rine pump into a gundam. Maybe 8 rax 15 fact then expo ? realitivly slow opening in terms of offense but that doesnt stop terrans these days. Any ideas? Well think about it this way. If you're playing on luna, FD is a very viable build. If you did not place your buildings in any special way, you would fight off the first zealots (if toss went zealots into goons at the start) by using your typical scv + marine micro running around etc. Most people don't have trouble with taking on the first goon + zealot because the tank is coming out soon by then. By usign the placement of the buildings to make that special gap, you can relieve the pressure of the zealot by not having to use scvs to stop the zealots. On August 18 2006 03:21 Reason wrote: thanks for your help skyglow! also, if the minerals are to the right of your cc you make a supply to the left and then a barracks to the left of that?? or do you make a barracks to the left and then a supply depot to the left of that?? im asking this because this: doesn't answer Legendary's question, one which I pose too, in any way whatsoever. It does in fact seem to be ignoring it completely... in simple terms: Q) what do I do if I can't build to the right A) build to the right riight Diverse got it right in his pic. It doesn't matter where your rax + supply combination is, just not too far away from your mineral line so its easier to defend your mineral line. Here's a simple explanation: Case 1: Minerals are to the right of your cc; solution = rax + supply (supply is on the right side of the rax). Case 2: Minerals are not to the right of your cc; solution = raxn on the right side of cc, or supply on the right side of a rax. On August 18 2006 15:10 Never Post wrote: You're meant to run through, not just stand in between, because the Zealot can't fit through. You can place it in the middle but its hard to do that accurately. Better to just run through when youre microing hard and trying to macro at the same time. I'll try that palcement on luna and see if I can get it to work outqast. [Edit] Funny that... it doesn't seem to work on Luna in that placement. The zealot still cant go through and you can do the running trick, but you cant place your marine and leave it there so the zealots cant touch the rine. As you can see in the 4th pic those 2 zealots are walking around aimlessly so it works on LT. Just do the run through thing. On August 18 2006 08:52 lakrismamma wrote: Nice but still the zeeaot have time to kill like 3 scv before the marine kills it? Run your scv thats getting hit to another mineral before it dies. If he goes after your marine, run towards the gap and through it if you need. | ||
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outqast
United States287 Posts
I can sit the rine in there if it is rax + cc and it works. Thanks though that is a cool tip. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On August 18 2006 11:21 OverTheUnder wrote: no true afaik:X There are certain maps, and building placements where u can block completely. I remember on LT, a factory and acadamy did just that. (I want to say a xellos or nad game where they went 2 port wraith) Obvioisly wont matter vs 9 pool, but still;P Rax/depot on 9 LT stops lings AFAIK On August 18 2006 12:32 CGMU wrote: Of course, its not a hard macth-up for toss because PvT IS imbalanced.,:terran needs perfect building placements to SURVIVE a zealot rush.and why i think PvT is imbalanced?because terran doesnt have an early static defense, like cannons or sunkens,. Ignoring obviously bad maps like Guillotine... 1. Let's take a look at stats. http://www.pgtour.net/ladder.stats.php , http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=15963 , http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=15932 2. But wait, stats mean nothing. (insert rant about good players v bad players). Okay, let's try to find other Terrans sharing a similar concern as you do, as clearly it is a serious problem if they face such enormous odds stacked against them in every TvP. So let's try to find people whining about PvT imbalance by searching for "PvT imbalance" at TeamLiquid. http://teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q="pvt imbalance" , aka no results, as none of those threads mention that PvT is imbalanced. Compare to http://teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q="pvz imbalance" 3. But let's imagine, that despite this overwhelming evidence, let's pretend that you, CGMU, have stumbled upon something that no one has yet discovered in a game dating back many many years, a game in which zealot rush v Terran must never have been attempted despite it being mainstream against both other races, and this monumental discovery could be one that would allow you to go down in history with such other brilliant Starcraft strategists such as the author of the Official Prima Strategy Guide and that guy that peddles that ProGamer book that Leg did a chapter for. So let's consider your masterful reasoning. terran needs perfect building placements to SURVIVE a zealot rush (I'm not even going to dignify your comment on lack of static defense with a response. Not only does T have static defense: ![[image loading]](http://www.rpgclassics.com/subsites/starcraft/images/bunker.gif) anyone who needs to use them in TvP is about as deserving of posting in the Strategy Forum of this website as a wasted baboon.) According to you, you need to wall-in in order to "SURVIVE" a zealot rush (ignoring such trivialities like "micro" or "not sucking hard at build order", since attack-move is obviously all anyone needs). Therefore, on maps where you can't wall-in, it's impossible to "SURVIVE" said zealot rush without "perfect" building placement. Which is why, of course, Terran loses every single TvP game on Luna, or Hunters, or Blizzard's old LT at the 6 position, or any of the other eighty thousand maps where walling is impossible. Goddamn, you should be in Korea winning every tournament with nothing but your juggernaut war-machine zealots raping every T ever. Who needs micro and macro when you have your PATENTED CGMU PVT ZEALOT RUSH FREEWIN ability? | ||
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skyglow1
New Zealand3962 Posts
On August 19 2006 16:53 GrandInquisitor wrote: Rax/depot on 9 LT stops lings AFAIK I think you need to place it in a certain way for that to work. The way I usually use doesn't block the lings, but if you replace one of the supply depots in any block with a academy then AFAIK it blocks the lings out. | ||
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Blind
United States2528 Posts
On August 18 2006 03:21 Reason wrote: thanks for your help skyglow! also, if the minerals are to the right of your cc you make a supply to the left and then a barracks to the left of that?? or do you make a barracks to the left and then a supply depot to the left of that?? im asking this because this: doesn't answer Legendary's question, one which I pose too, in any way whatsoever. It does in fact seem to be ignoring it completely... in simple terms: Q) what do I do if I can't build to the right A) build to the right riight This is what I was describing. This does block zealots as long as the marine is not too close to the bottom or top while it's between the rax and depot. ![[image loading]](http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/3511/ssyr7.jpg) | ||
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