EPTCloning is what OP was describing with "shift-select," I think. In this case, it is most likely different control groups. What I have seen Effort do is 11 mutas with overlord on 1, 10 on 2, 9 on 3, etc. etc. and then just do hotkey + right click on minimap to split them.
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Jealous
10267 Posts
Cloning is what OP was describing with "shift-select," I think. In this case, it is most likely different control groups. What I have seen Effort do is 11 mutas with overlord on 1, 10 on 2, 9 on 3, etc. etc. and then just do hotkey + right click on minimap to split them. | ||
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Highgamer
1448 Posts
"The term cloning refers to a technique used to issue a number of units a certain command with different targets in a short amount of time. The Methods There are several Methods for cloning: Shift-deselecting [...] This method is not very fast but uses no hotkeys. It's most commonly used for cloning workers. Using Hotkeys [...] This Method requires more preparation and forces the player to re-bind his hotkeys afterwards but the actual cloning process can be done much faster making it more useful for combat situations where the player has to act fast." | ||
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ggsimida
1148 Posts
On April 15 2020 13:09 Jealous wrote: Cloning is what OP was describing with "shift-select," I think. In this case, it is most likely different control groups. What I have seen Effort do is 11 mutas with overlord on 1, 10 on 2, 9 on 3, etc. etc. and then just do hotkey + right click on minimap to split them. if 11 mutas just go 11-1 8-2 5-3 2-4. then manually take out the irradiated muta from one of the small stacks. much better than more groups which would be nastier if the irradiated muta is in last or second last group | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28738 Posts
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Jealous
10267 Posts
On April 15 2020 15:45 Highgamer wrote: The Liquidpedia-entry that kogeT linked describes both techniques as different methods of the broader term "cloning": "The term cloning refers to a technique used to issue a number of units a certain command with different targets in a short amount of time. The Methods There are several Methods for cloning: Shift-deselecting [...] This method is not very fast but uses no hotkeys. It's most commonly used for cloning workers. Using Hotkeys [...] This Method requires more preparation and forces the player to re-bind his hotkeys afterwards but the actual cloning process can be done much faster making it more useful for combat situations where the player has to act fast." Strange, never heard that be called cloning. Thanks! Apologies @kogeT, should have known better than to correct a legend. On April 15 2020 18:25 ggsimida wrote: if 11 mutas just go 11-1 8-2 5-3 2-4. then manually take out the irradiated muta from one of the small stacks. much better than more groups which would be nastier if the irradiated muta is in last or second last group The context I saw it in was in ZvP, so perhaps you are right for ZvT. | ||
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nosliw
United States2716 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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TheGloob
97 Posts
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Jealous
10267 Posts
On April 20 2020 21:04 TheGloob wrote: how can i punish nexus first in PvP? i've been using the 2 gate reaver build from liquipedia (which is i guess outdated?) and i usually end up super behind. there's gotta be a better reaction when i see nexus first, right? i saw stork proxied a robo for reavers in one game and i saw another game where someone proxied some gates for more goons. what do you guys recommend? Proxy Robo is a good answer. You can also try 2 Zealot 2 Dt drop on their main, they will usually have just 1 Cannon for detection and low Dragoon count - try dropping directly on top of it to minimize Probe glitch shenanigans. DT in general can help you get map control while catch up in eco by taking a 3rd but this depends on the map in my experience. | ||
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SuGo
United States681 Posts
On April 20 2020 21:33 Jealous wrote: Proxy Robo is a good answer. You can also try 2 Zealot 2 Dt drop on their main, they will usually have just 1 Cannon for detection and low Dragoon count - try dropping directly on top of it to minimize Probe glitch shenanigans. DT in general can help you get map control while catch up in eco by taking a 3rd but this depends on the map in my experience. All viable options. As expected from a Legend like Jealous. One other option and also totally viable that people tend to always forget ... see a nexus, make your own nexus. Keep it simple. Why try to do drops, and proxies, and all this stuff. Make your own nexus and turn it into a regular game. Done. (and before you ask if you're still behind because your nexus will be slightly later - No, not really. You have to remember, you'll have a core, more gas, and likely a faster robo/citadel - so the tech is on your side. Probe count should also be somewhat similar too and as long as your nexus isn't that far behind, then you'll close the gap on workers easily, too). | ||
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1a2a3aPro
Canada227 Posts
I'd like to make 8 pylon 10 gate 11 gas zealot core zealot work in the dark and maybe scout after gateway or scout after pylon, but I find PvZ almost unwinnable (I am just not accustomed to not going forge FE). If I go 10/12 gate in my main then I feel like I'm really weak versus Terran. | ||
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Jealous
10267 Posts
On April 23 2020 12:15 1a2a3aPro wrote: What is a good Protoss build for random? I'd like to make 8 pylon 10 gate 11 gas zealot core zealot work in the dark and maybe scout after gateway or scout after pylon, but I find PvZ almost unwinnable (I am just not accustomed to not going forge FE). If I go 10/12 gate in my main then I feel like I'm really weak versus Terran. Read from this post onward; Liquid`Drone provides some good feedback further down the page. https://tl.net/forum/bw-strategy/220903-simple-questions-simple-answers?page=444#8866 EDIT: I'll just link Drone's post here since the thread had multiple lines of conversation going at once. Indi and TT1 comment soon after, so good players: https://tl.net/forum/bw-strategy/220903-simple-questions-simple-answers?page=444#8876 | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4139 Posts
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Jealous
10267 Posts
On April 25 2020 01:47 Dante08 wrote: How do you beat zerg ultra rush build with no lurkers no mutas hidden third and mass sunken? By the time I realize it zerg is already on +3 ultras with speed while my +2 is not even done. You haven't really clarified if you're Terran or Protoss, but both problems (hidden base, no Muta/Lurker) are both solved by better scouting. Good scouting will inform you that there is no need to build Cannons/Turrets in the mineral line, that you can just break them with Siege Tanks/Reavers, that they likely have nothing defending harassment in their main and that their economy is weak from making only static defense, and can help you deny hidden 3rd. This is one of those situations where the answer is prevention. I think Day[9] said this in a video, where viewers ask him stuff like, "My enemy built Carriers and attacked me before I had my Factory up, how can I beat that?" and the answer is that you can't, you have to stop it before it happens because the opponent is cutting massive corners to get to that point, and/or you are making massive mistakes/misreads to get to that point of being behind so you need to work on improving your play in general. Maybe if you share a replay people can give more case-specific advice. | ||
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TheLordofAwesome
Korea (South)2655 Posts
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Jealous
10267 Posts
On April 25 2020 10:52 TheLordofAwesome wrote: Why did the late game mech switch in TvZ fall out of fashion? For a while it was considered super broken by Z, I thought. Maps are at least partially responsible IMO. But, also, as with any "new" development in the game, some things seem incredibly broken at first then get progressively more "solved" until they either stabilize as a standard option or fall out of favor. Consider Bisu's dominance of Savior in 2007, and how quickly that same approach seemed unrefined and outdated compared to more contemporary approaches to FFE. Within a year there was already a tremendous arms race between Z and P as to who can develop their side of the meta the fastest. I believe the same has happened to lategame mech (outside of map dependence), but I haven't been as active so I am not 100% sure. Perhaps someone with more current activity in VODs can elaborate further but from what I've seen, it follows the pattern. | ||
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
On April 25 2020 01:47 Dante08 wrote: How do you beat zerg ultra rush build with no lurkers no mutas hidden third and mass sunken? By the time I realize it zerg is already on +3 ultras with speed while my +2 is not even done. double if you see evo chamber and a queen's nest, they're probably going ultra. tbh, usually evo chambers are enough of a giveaway but I caution that there are many zerg mid game builds that rely on quick double evo chambers like some lurker based builds and hydra lurker. But even before this, you should scan and see their larva to confirm whether or not they are making mutas so that you can save money on turrets. A lot of zerg like to ultra rush with a spire not to make a muta flock, but to just make one for scouting and maybe the terran player has to acknowledge the possibly of a muta attack. A zerg player that has opted for a lair but is producing low amounts of either hydras or mutas is more likly to be fooled . in general, a good way to respond is to go 7 rax with 2 starports making vessels once you confirmed their build. Prioritize double ebay upgrades over all else because they are possibly the most important factor in a fight aside from raw numbers and positioning your army in a ball (similar concept to anti-muta micro). Also, if you confirm they have no spire, dropping behind mineral line is pretty good. It's hard to defend 3 base against this style so massing on 2 base is preferable. Also, it sounds tempting to do a tank push but the sunkens usually buy enough time so that tank pushes aren't that amazing. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On April 25 2020 01:47 Dante08 wrote: How do you beat zerg ultra rush build with no lurkers no mutas hidden third and mass sunken? By the time I realize it zerg is already on +3 ultras with speed while my +2 is not even done. Assuming Terran, as P don't make much sense, I don't see how it can be possible a Z can get armour ups on ultralisk before you can scan their base several times over. All he has are lings and hydras so if you go marines and medic, you can contain and expand or just go kill him. Even if you mistakenly thought it was lurkers or mutas and built too many turrets/bunkers, you can just go kill him. A third should be impossible for the Z assuming equal skill as the Z has no way of stopping marines from walking around the map and into the third. A hidden third should always be found as the natural assumption is that Zerg should try to get a 3rd, unless you are one basing or something in which case you already lost long ago by the time he has a third. Learn to hotkey, stim and attack with all your mnm and mass sunken is not a problem. In theory 1 medic nullfies 1 sunken. Even if you can't attack into the nat and kill him because there are somehow too many sunkens, you can just sit in a chokepoint outside the nat and watch his ultras die to marines and medics. +2 ultra armour is an advantage, but it's not an overwhelming advantage. On April 25 2020 10:52 TheLordofAwesome wrote: On the maps suited to mech switching, some Zergs responded with mass hydras to kill the vultures and mines so T couldn't get the map control and vision to switch to mech safely.Why did the late game mech switch in TvZ fall out of fashion? For a while it was considered super broken by Z, I thought. | ||
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Cryoc
Germany912 Posts
On April 26 2020 00:50 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Assuming Terran, as P don't make much sense, I don't see how it can be possible a Z can get armour ups on ultralisk before you can scan their base several times over. All he has are lings and hydras so if you go marines and medic, you can contain and expand or just go kill him. Even if you mistakenly thought it was lurkers or mutas and built too many turrets/bunkers, you can just go kill him. A third should be impossible for the Z assuming equal skill as the Z has no way of stopping marines from walking around the map and into the third. A hidden third should always be found as the natural assumption is that Zerg should try to get a 3rd, unless you are one basing or something in which case you already lost long ago by the time he has a third. Learn to hotkey, stim and attack with all your mnm and mass sunken is not a problem. In theory 1 medic nullfies 1 sunken. Even if you can't attack into the nat and kill him because there are somehow too many sunkens, you can just sit in a chokepoint outside the nat and watch his ultras die to marines and medics. +2 ultra armour is an advantage, but it's not an overwhelming advantage. On the maps suited to mech switching, some Zergs responded with mass hydras to kill the vultures and mines so T couldn't get the map control and vision to switch to mech safely. Zergs who don't make any units before getting ultras can easily make 10+ sunkens to stop any kind of bust. The best is to simply deny hidden thirds, getting upgrades and massing up. If your opening was not heavy bio oriented, you can be fast enough to get drops off before ultraling is ready. | ||
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plast1c
Germany101 Posts
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