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On May 09 2017 03:33 DreXxiN wrote:
Thanks. I typically push out after FE with my initial 1rax rines to apply pressure and keep it rotating around the map, then push out again when I have about 2-3 tanks and 1 science vessel while pumping 5rax, and at this time I typically expo twice and switch to mech while I'm putting pressure. Usually the units rallied to my nat are enough to defend that so that's never an issue, but I can never keep my 3rd/4th bases up. Maybe I'll just play on lower eco until I'm faster or better at scouting.
What do you mean by that part I highlighted? Do you mean you reinforce your inital push and apply pressure during the muta-phase? Because that is vital to deal with the mutas: pressuring Zerg's natural and 3rd with one group of M&M (or more if it's safe to leave less marines in your base to defend against mutas). This will force Zerg to spend resources on something else than drones/hive tech - or force his mutas to defend, so you can tech/macro faster.
How fast you take your additional expos (nr. 3 and 4) depends largely on what Zerg is doing and how well your pre-deflier push is going.
If Zerg goes for a late hive and opts for a lot of units instead, or if he doesn't saturate his 3 bases well but techs faster and builds more units, then you don't have to rush for your additional bases, but rather make sure that you produce from your 2 bases at 100% capacity and keep trading with Zerg, and slowly/safely get your 3rd base up at another main, 4th soon after.
What you describe (5rax, 1fact, 1 port, right into 3rd/4th) is quite greedy actually if you don't get a perfect fight with your pre-defiler push (and even then it gives Zerg the chance to come back with exactly what you described, holding with swarm while attacking with swarm). Iirc, Flash sometimes went up to around 8rax and two ports one factory (or two factories one port, I guess) on two bases, applied tons of pressure, and THEN took the two bases around 3-5 minutes or so later than usual.
Generally speaking, you should only take your 3rd if you have good map-control and his defilers in-check, or if at least you can send a squad of marines to the 3rd-location of choice to clear out lings and stand guard for a moment.
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On May 09 2017 05:08 broodwarisback wrote:
3 Base Spire into 5 Hatch Hydra help.
just coming back to the game, im looking for a really noob friendly guide. i looked at the guide at liquidpedia but i really need one with drone times and exactly where to play hatcheries.
if someone can hook me up with some replays, i can just write down the b/o's from that. will give you hugs and kisses for help <3
About hatchery placement, you should check that thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-strategy/99705-zerg-building-positioning
But I'm not sure what you mean with "drone times", liquipedia article is quite clear about when you should be building drones and when to stop.
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On May 09 2017 06:54 ortseam wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 05:08 broodwarisback wrote:
3 Base Spire into 5 Hatch Hydra help.
just coming back to the game, im looking for a really noob friendly guide. i looked at the guide at liquidpedia but i really need one with drone times and exactly where to play hatcheries.
if someone can hook me up with some replays, i can just write down the b/o's from that. will give you hugs and kisses for help <3 About hatchery placement, you should check that thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-strategy/99705-zerg-building-positioningBut I'm not sure what you mean with "drone times", liquipedia article is quite clear about when you should be building drones and when to stop.
english not first language. sorry. thank u for the help
also all image in thread dont load?
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Are you running OBS as an administrator? It is required for it to recognize starcraft.
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On May 09 2017 03:33 DreXxiN wrote:
Thanks. I typically push out after FE with my initial 1rax rines to apply pressure and keep it rotating around the map, then push out again when I have about 2-3 tanks and 1 science vessel while pumping 5rax, and at this time I typically expo twice and switch to mech while I'm putting pressure. Usually the units rallied to my nat are enough to defend that so that's never an issue, but I can never keep my 3rd/4th bases up. Maybe I'll just play on lower eco until I'm faster or better at scouting.
You should go for mines + speed instead of siege unless your pressure is actually doing something (doesn't seem like it is)
The proper mech transition gets siege last, since low tank count is useless and you need a lot of gas and factories to build many
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Building the first Terran rax, when opponent's worker attacks your builder SCV, how many mining SCVs should you pull to deal with the harassment? And once their worker stops attacking your builder SCV, should you follow it around your base with one worker to ensure it doesn't start attacking the builder once again?
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I'm really struggling against a Hydra bust in PvZ even if I keep my probe alive and scout it. I'm always just hit with too many Hydras before I have enough Zealots and speed while I'm making Corsairs. Am I teching to Zealot legs too slow? Should I be trying to get HT with storm faster? I know it's probably not a simple enough question, but my winnrate vs Hydra bust is at 0%..
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On May 09 2017 05:56 Highgamer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 03:33 DreXxiN wrote:
Thanks. I typically push out after FE with my initial 1rax rines to apply pressure and keep it rotating around the map, then push out again when I have about 2-3 tanks and 1 science vessel while pumping 5rax, and at this time I typically expo twice and switch to mech while I'm putting pressure. Usually the units rallied to my nat are enough to defend that so that's never an issue, but I can never keep my 3rd/4th bases up. Maybe I'll just play on lower eco until I'm faster or better at scouting. What do you mean by that part I highlighted? Do you mean you reinforce your inital push and apply pressure during the muta-phase? Because that is vital to deal with the mutas: pressuring Zerg's natural and 3rd with one group of M&M (or more if it's safe to leave less marines in your base to defend against mutas). This will force Zerg to spend resources on something else than drones/hive tech - or force his mutas to defend, so you can tech/macro faster. How fast you take your additional expos (nr. 3 and 4) depends largely on what Zerg is doing and how well your pre-deflier push is going. If Zerg goes for a late hive and opts for a lot of units instead, or if he doesn't saturate his 3 bases well but techs faster and builds more units, then you don't have to rush for your additional bases, but rather make sure that you produce from your 2 bases at 100% capacity and keep trading with Zerg, and slowly/safely get your 3rd base up at another main, 4th soon after. What you describe (5rax, 1fact, 1 port, right into 3rd/4th) is quite greedy actually if you don't get a perfect fight with your pre-defiler push (and even then it gives Zerg the chance to come back with exactly what you described, holding with swarm while attacking with swarm). Iirc, Flash sometimes went up to around 8rax and two ports one factory (or two factories one port, I guess) on two bases, applied tons of pressure, and THEN took the two bases around 3-5 minutes or so later than usual. Generally speaking, you should only take your 3rd if you have good map-control and his defilers in-check, or if at least you can send a squad of marines to the 3rd-location of choice to clear out lings and stand guard for a moment.
Cheers, good advice. I think what I'll do is improve my scouting and get a gauge of how many vessels I'll need to deal with the defiler/lurker threat before taking a 3rd/4th. Alternatively I'll consider some dropship play while expanding. I'm kind of greedy by nature, but know I should tone it down  .
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On May 10 2017 01:36 Headshot wrote:
I'm really struggling against a Hydra bust in PvZ even if I keep my probe alive and scout it. I'm always just hit with too many Hydras before I have enough Zealots and speed while I'm making Corsairs. Am I teching to Zealot legs too slow? Should I be trying to get HT with storm faster? I know it's probably not a simple enough question, but my winnrate vs Hydra bust is at 0%..
Making cannons and teching to storm are priority for me. I briefly cut sair production to achieve this, assuming we are talking about 3h hydra bust. You don't need more than your initial sair until you hold the bust and then you resume. Good simcity does wonders as well. Adding gates for more zeal/templar as well.
Your initial sair should be checking how many Hydra he is making. Many zergs make only a handful of hydra with range and use it to kill forge and gate and then back off. You base your cannon count on the amount you see.
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On May 10 2017 01:36 Headshot wrote:
I'm really struggling against a Hydra bust in PvZ even if I keep my probe alive and scout it. I'm always just hit with too many Hydras before I have enough Zealots and speed while I'm making Corsairs. Am I teching to Zealot legs too slow? Should I be trying to get HT with storm faster? I know it's probably not a simple enough question, but my winnrate vs Hydra bust is at 0%..
First of all, I'm assuming you don't mean 3 hatch hydra.
I think you're going at the problem form a wrong angle. Speedlots... Corsairs... These units do nothing together.
If you're making corsairs (plural), along with your cannon(s), your initial defence is a DT (or a few). Another DT should try to hurt Z' economy somehow. You should keep your corsairs active at all times, killing overlords and scouting. Right after you've made your first DTs, you make a couple of high templars. These are crucial when Z tries to bust with a high number of hydras and overlords.
Of course there are also reaver openers. Just because the pros don't use them, doesn't mean your won't win with it.
Hf.
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Hmm, thank you both for your insight. I suppose I've just been trying to make as many Zealots and Corsairs as possible while teching to HTs because I always see Bisu do a ton of damage with +1 Zealot push, but I guess it would make sense cut cut Sair production if I see a ton of Hydras for faster HTs or DTs. When do you usually add more gates? After you have your Templar archives?
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On May 10 2017 03:31 Headshot wrote:
Hmm, thank you both for your insight. I suppose I've just been trying to make as many Zealots and Corsairs as possible while teching to HTs because I always see Bisu do a ton of damage with +1 Zealot push, but I guess it would make sense cut cut Sair production if I see a ton of Hydras for faster HTs or DTs. When do you usually add more gates? After you have your Templar archives?
You want to add at least 2 gateways, likely 3 (especially if he is poking your front with range), to your main while templar archives is coming up. Gate and archives finish almost at the same time. You will be able to spend your gas bank almost immediately because of storm research and getting templar. If you see him going for 5 hatch hydra follow up, resume sair production, and I like to get to about 6-8 gates and counter his mass directly and reclaim map presence before they can try to lurk contain you or mass expand or both. Once I have map control I try to expand 2x very quickly. But I'm getting ahead of myself here.
My best general suggestion is to download a rep pack from the "replays..." thread and make a detailed timing oriented build order for a rep where Protoss beats hydra bust. That is the best way to see how the pros handle it and perhaps what you are lacking. Without replay (either yours or pros) none of us can give you exact advice. Train your analytical and methodical mind and dissect a pro replay of holding 3h.
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On May 10 2017 00:12 ihcob wrote:
Building the first Terran rax, when opponent's worker attacks your builder SCV, how many mining SCVs should you pull to deal with the harassment? And once their worker stops attacking your builder SCV, should you follow it around your base with one worker to ensure it doesn't start attacking the builder once again?
In my experience noobs often pull 2 SCVs, one to attack one to repair, which when considered with the 1 SCV building, potentially 1 SCV scouting and 1 SCV building gas, that is 4-5 SCVs pulled when you barely have 3x that number total. That seems egregious to me. I prefer to do one of the following depending on the comfort level/skill and the scouting information:
1. When you tell the SCV to stop building (not cancel the building) and reassign it to continue build right away, it will go back to the center and shift to a random location potentially. This mitigates continuous damage to the SCV. Combine this with pulling the SCV when it is too injured after another fresh one arrives at the Barracks ready to take over building. Send the injured one back to your mineral line.
2. Send 1 SCV to repair. If it gets attacked, attack back. If the main building SCV has recovered enough HP, switch to attacking. If the building SCV is out of range of repair (and/or Probe attack), switch to attacking. SCV attack can be spammed because it forces the minimal cool down which is lower than Probe I am pretty sure of this. This still costs you money in repair/lost mining time but your Barracks should not be delayed in the slightest, which is better for FD and Rax CC opening especially vs. Zealot - first builds.
Would be nice if Cryoc or another high level Terran could confirm this because my Terran is hasu and I'm speaking from the Protoss player who off races perspective.
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You only need to repair the building SCV if you were slow to pull an SCV to defend. Otherwise just attack the probe. You spam attack so the defending SCV will follow the probe closely, otherwise they can outrun it while still harassing.
I don't think pausing and resuming building is usually a good idea since the movement is inconsistent and it delays build time. Often the SCV will just float in the same spot.
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On May 10 2017 05:22 Sero wrote:
You only need to repair the building SCV if you were slow to pull an SCV to defend. Otherwise just attack the probe. You spam attack so the defending SCV will follow the probe closely, otherwise they can outrun it while still harassing.
I don't think pausing and resuming building is usually a good idea since the movement is inconsistent and it delays build time. Often the SCV will just float in the same spot.
It doesn't matter where the SCV is, it can resume building right away and building progress is not affected by SCV position. It simply resets the seemingly erratic building pattern if I'm not mistaken.
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Pausing the building process always delays the progress, because it only resumes after the SCV reached the middle of the construction site again, that is a significant time loss if you cancel your SCV a lot plus there is no guarantee, it doesn't return to a very similar position.
I don't repair the SCV on site most of the time either because a probe kills the SCV faster than you can repair it with one. Combine that with the much bigger attack range of the probe and your building SCV is bound to die most of the time if you do that.
I usually use one SCV to fight the probe. If I reacted late or the building SCV just moved very unlucky for me, I send two and replace the building SCV as well as fight it with the second one. But you should replace the SCV quick. If it is already in the red, you have to babysit it because chances are high P will get it even in your mineral line.
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Beginner here! As a Terran, what basic conclusions can I come to scouting 2 hatch Zerg vs. 3 hatch? Am I correct in assuming that 3 hatch is a long term investment, eventually giving better production and a strong mid/late game, but that 3 hatch sacrifices some possibilities for fast tech & very quick muta/ling pressure?
Completely unrelated: Will I get better performance if I run the game in windows (bootcamp on my mac) or will it perform the same in MacOS?
Cheers!
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EPT
