EPTedit: nvm see some below posts
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 243
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
Jonoman92
United States9110 Posts
edit: nvm see some below posts | ||
|
Wrath
3175 Posts
On January 29 2016 11:51 evilfatsh1t wrote: yeah typically in a standard macro game i think people can get it in like 12mins or something never really counted the minutes though so i went with 15 12 minutes wtf? I barely keeping 100 supply at 10 min mark...  | ||
|
Jealous
10404 Posts
On January 30 2016 17:57 WrathSCII wrote: 12 minutes wtf? I barely keeping 100 supply at 10 min mark... So do many progamers in many games. It depends on the game, as was said above. 12 minutes is if everything goes perfectly and there were no engagements or harass and both players are free to expand without any delay, and are intent on massing army. Basically, if you load up Fighting Spirit against a computer, then at the last second you remove the computer from the game, press "Continue game" when prompted at start, and try to reach 200/200 as fast as possible while maintaining proper build order and viable army composition, 12 minutes is what you should be aiming for and it is quite attainable. | ||
|
[Option]
3 Posts
Should I keep these builds pretty simple and use them more as openers or should I leave in the details I have already? I can't tell if I'm overwhelming myself with information or if I'm just having a hard time concentrating on the build and playing. Builds - http://pastebin.com/93udNpb8 | ||
|
TheGreatOne
United States534 Posts
| ||
|
[Option]
3 Posts
ignore this post whoops lol | ||
|
Jealous
10404 Posts
On February 01 2016 12:15 [Option] wrote: I'm just starting out in Brood War as a Terran but I've had years of experience in SC2 (highest league was plat). I've copied down some builds from pro replays from players like Flash, Fantasy, UpMagic etc for each match-up. My question is how big a build order should be? In SC2 I just copied builds from sites and they were pretty well laid out and straight forward but I'm having more trouble following them in BW after find the builds myself from replays. Should I keep these builds pretty simple and use them more as openers or should I leave in the details I have already? I can't tell if I'm overwhelming myself with information or if I'm just having a hard time concentrating on the build and playing. Builds - http://pastebin.com/93udNpb8 Builds can be very specific, but should only be followed if specific things happen or don't happen. For example: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Deep_Six_(vs._Protoss) If you do the 1 Barracks opening (Rax FE), and you see Protoss proxied 3 Gateways in the middle of the map to bust your natural, do you continue with the build? Probably not. If you see the Protoss open Nexus-first and you scout it fast, can you deviate from the build and try to Bunker rush the Nexus? Absolutely. In other words, builds are to be taken literally when their exact usage has merit. When it doesn't, don't. To start off, I would practice one opener until it becomes second nature, and then you can confidently branch out to different follow-ups, because you no longer have to memorize the opening. Terran is very strongly dependent on timings, so eventually you do want to have a set of builds that you can do without too much thought, and that comes from practice. For instance, in TvZ, you have to be ready to pressure the Zerg when you have 3 Tanks and 1 Science Vessel, and try to do as much damage as possible before Defilers are out. If your timing is late, then Zerg will not be damaged, and will not have to fight its way through your attack with a gradual layer of Dark Swarm. In TvP, if you see that Protoss is low on Gateways after being on 2 base for a bit, you can assume that he is going for a quick 3rd base. You have a timing window from when the Protoss throws down the Nexus to when the income from it kicks in and he will be able to outmacro you. To know if you should go for a 4/5 Fac timing (I don't know exactly what it is, another Terran could help you here) you have to practice it. The only time you would even have the opportunity to hit this timing is if your initial build order was on point as well. I've rambled for too long. TL;DR: Builds can be followed verbatim only in certain conditions. You should practice your openings until they are solid, first. Then you should learn the various timing pushes. In my opinion, at least. What can help with this is getting a practice partner and noting the times at which pro Terran moves out in replays and more importantly WHY. Good luck! EDIT: Another thing that can help you with timings is using MCALauncher, which has a built-in timer that you can turn on. You can look at the clock and see that "Oh, he's doing 2 Hatch Mutalisk, that means the Mutalisks will pop at 6:30, so I should start my Turrets at 6:15," or "It's 12:30, that means my 2-1 should be done soon, so that means I push, and I should have 180 population." If your 2-1 hits at 13:30 and you have 160 pop, then you know you fucked up bad (unless the early game was crazy as hell and you are both similarly behind). P.S. the above times are made up and should not be followed | ||
|
[Option]
3 Posts
On February 01 2016 12:41 Jealous wrote: [/b]Builds can be very specific, but should only be followed if specific things happen or don't happen. For example: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Deep_Six_(vs._Protoss) If you do the 1 Barracks opening (Rax FE), and you see Protoss proxied 3 Gateways in the middle of the map to bust your natural, do you continue with the build? Probably not. If you see the Protoss open Nexus-first and you scout it fast, can you deviate from the build and try to Bunker rush the Nexus? Absolutely. In other words, builds are to be taken literally when their exact usage has merit. When it doesn't, don't. To start off, I would practice one opener until it becomes second nature, and then you can confidently branch out to different follow-ups, because you no longer have to memorize the opening. Terran is very strongly dependent on timings, so eventually you do want to have a set of builds that you can do without too much thought, and that comes from practice. For instance, in TvZ, you have to be ready to pressure the Zerg when you have 3 Tanks and 1 Science Vessel, and try to do as much damage as possible before Defilers are out. If your timing is late, then Zerg will not be damaged, and will not have to fight its way through your attack with a gradual layer of Dark Swarm. In TvP, if you see that Protoss is low on Gateways after being on 2 base for a bit, you can assume that he is going for a quick 3rd base. You have a timing window from when the Protoss throws down the Nexus to when the income from it kicks in and he will be able to outmacro you. To know if you should go for a 4/5 Fac timing (I don't know exactly what it is, another Terran could help you here) you have to practice it. The only time you would even have the opportunity to hit this timing is if your initial build order was on point as well. I've rambled for too long. TL;DR: Builds can be followed verbatim only in certain conditions. You should practice your openings until they are solid, first. Then you should learn the various timing pushes. In my opinion, at least. What can help with this is getting a practice partner and noting the times at which pro Terran moves out in replays and more importantly WHY. Good luck! Awesome thanks man this clears things up for me 100%! | ||
|
B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
And as Jealous mentions, it's important to adapt to in-game situations, but that's also the case in Sc2. | ||
|
TheGreatOne
United States534 Posts
| ||
|
Alur
Denmark3900 Posts
On January 30 2016 09:48 Jonoman92 wrote: Well, Day[9] was famous before Tasteless though if I'm remembering correctly. He was known for being a strong zerg player and US WCG representative, but the dailies are definitely what made him famous. That's not how I remember it. Tasteless was casting WCG's + GOMTV Star Invitational before Day[9] started doing dailies and was still "just" considered a strong NA player. So I'd say tasteless was the first of the two to really become famous. I guess it depends on how you define fame. | ||
|
ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
Famous like, I think when those guys became famous you would hear about them without really having to look around, it would be hard to dodge the knowledge of who they are and what they are doing once they are famous, that's how I would define "famous" I guess. | ||
|
oGoZenob
France1503 Posts
I did. What do I do now ? | ||
|
Scarbo
294 Posts
lol | ||
|
G5
United States2921 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.freshbenies.com/sites/default/files/shrinking_ii_a_0.png) Because you do! | ||
|
Animostas
United States568 Posts
| ||
|
Cryoc
Germany914 Posts
Another source would be the ongoing TLSC, they published the replays from the last 4 preliminary rounds here: Round 1 Round 2 Round 3 Round 4 | ||
|
Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On February 04 2016 22:09 Cryoc wrote: If you don't insist in progamer replays, the iccup.com replay section is probably the best source nowadays. Iccup hosted quite some ladder tourneys in recent times, so you can get replays from some of the better players: http://iccup.com/en/starcraft/replays/tourney.html Another source would be the ongoing TLSC, they published the replays from the last 4 preliminary rounds here: Round 1 Round 2 Round 3 Round 4 there's also some older Progamer replay's in there, but yes it's mostly ladder replays. | ||
|
ArmadA[NaS]
United States350 Posts
You can also find a ton more replays from Scan in his Build order and Strategy thread including many vs progamers. | ||
|
Scarbo
294 Posts
On February 05 2016 04:02 f10eqq wrote: The best replays from ~2012 - Present can be found in Zimp's Replay thread- the best terrans in that thread are Light, Hiya, Fantasy (all progamers), Scan, INH, and Shinee (semi-pros). The Flash pack isn't actually Flash- just a hacker who copied his hotkeys. You can also find a ton more replays from Scan in his Build order and Strategy thread including many vs progamers. The pack with Flash vs Zero and Effort? You have any source on that? | ||
| ||
