On April 28 2014 17:07 kidcrash wrote: What's a good build order for 2v2 when you are the Zerg on zp vs zt. What adjustments should I make vs a bio or mech opening.
If they go bio, go gate/forge, then send a probe to your ally's base, make cannons at your ramp and at your ally's ramp. Then if you want to tech up, add gas, then cybernetics core, then whatever you want to do next. A lot of people go corsair to help their zerg ally. This, of course, is only if they're aggressive, which they probably will be. Cannons are actually quite good against marines and medics because of their range and rate of fire. If the Zerg fast expands and the Terran is going bio, build a pylon at the natural of the terran, and one by the enemy zerg's hatchery. Then you make a couple of cannons to box the terran in, and make a couple to help your zerg buddy kill the hatchery.
If the Terran goes mech, just go 10/12 gate like normal, and your zerg friend can go 9 hatch 9 pool, then you just kill the enemy zerg while the terran is teching. Since you will have no vision of the Terran, you won't know what he's doing, but it probably involves vultures+mines or wraiths. Transition into dragoons or reaver and harass the terran as much as possible while the zerg ally makes a massive number of mutalisks.
"What's a good build order for 2v2 when you are the Zerg..."
I like 9 hatch 9 pool 9 gas speed ling mass to kill the Zerg with a 9/9 gate Protoss, but I'm a cheeser who doesn't actually know how to play 2v2 OR Zerg so you can ignore what I just said.
9 hatch 9 pool 9 gas speedling is pretty strong because you can make a fuckton of zerglings from two hatcheries, and you can have a hatchery on your ramp for sunkens. I feel like straight-up 9pool is better for rushing speedlings and lair though and is easy to defend against zealot/lings with just a couple of sunkens near the mineral line. Against medic/marine though, having the ramp just seems more ideal because they can't create a surrounding arc of fire.
There's two different variations of the 3 rax on 2 base bo. In one (ebay before 3rd rax) it competes with +1 5 rax as the most common TvZ mid game build. The other (ebay after 3rd rax) is a weird version that Flash beat a bunch of people with for a while.
Those games should be the original sparks terran based on a sync highlight video: Sync vs ELIZA (might be available in the MSL Proleague torrent) Sync vs JJu Sync vs Chojja (VOD is incomplete though and cuts off pretty early) From that you can deduce the build.
What relative timings can I look for in a Zerg when watching a replay if I try to go for the 9 minute push? When his new tech comes up I'm always like "But...but... they shouldn't... how so fast?" After my first scout dies I have trobule assessing our relative positions. TL;DR : I'm a T, playing vs Z, what to check for when "comparing" our bases and units
Don't do the 9 min push. It is a terrible build that shouldn't work. Ignore stylish because all of his advice is wrong. Instead watch lots of replays and build an understanding of the game yourself.
On May 06 2014 09:43 puppykiller wrote: Don't do the 9 min push. It is a terrible build that shouldn't work. Ignore stylish because all of his advice is wrong. Instead watch lots of replays and build an understanding of the game yourself.
Wow that's suprising, I thought it was a good "go to" build to learn first for the match-up. Could you elaborate a little why you think so?
it's mostly because people got really good at muta micro and 2rax doesn't really cut it any more. you can still do it but you need like a million turrets and you have to play pretty conservative 5rax +1 is probably the easiest build to play even with 3rax you have to throw up like 8+ turrets
I just recently started playing broodwar and I spend a good amount of time watching vods to try to better my understanding of the flow of the game and just the game in general. Last night I watched a match that i'm sure many of you have seen, and the terran opened with wraiths to counter mutas. I found nothing about such build on liquidpedia and nothing as well searching TL forums. The terran player in the game opened with 14cc which I don't think is a good idea for me, so can someone explain if going wraiths off 1 base is a good idea and if so, how would one transition afterwards? Thanks!
For those interested, the game was Flash vs Jaedong from 2008 Proleague All-Stars. I'm not sure of the map but Flash went 14cc into 4 starport wraith.
On May 07 2014 14:14 Ouija wrote: I just recently started playing broodwar and I spend a good amount of time watching vods to try to better my understanding of the flow of the game and just the game in general. Last night I watched a match that i'm sure many of you have seen, and the terran opened with wraiths to counter mutas. I found nothing about such build on liquidpedia and nothing as well searching TL forums. The terran player in the game opened with 14cc which I don't think is a good idea for me, so can someone explain if going wraiths off 1 base is a good idea and if so, how would one transition afterwards? Thanks!
For those interested, the game was Flash vs Jaedong from 2008 Proleague All-Stars. I'm not sure of the map but Flash went 14cc into 4 starport wraith.
Haven't watched that game yet but I'm positive that if and as long as you scout well and see that your opponent isn't doing an early cheese or all-in, a 14 cc opener into wraiths is viable and very effective with good control. On the other hand, the more common wraith builds are, as you mentioned, based off 1-base openers which is more common as it is more safe. The terrans I've seen usually wall off their ramp, get a vulture out to scout, poke, harass, potential run-by, and then get a wraith out to do the same. Then while doing that they take an expo and add on facs or barracks depending on the unit comp they want. There's tons of variations of course like adding more than 1 starport and investing more heavily into wraiths and expoing later or even not at all and just add 3 rax to go for an m&m all in timing when zergs are trying to defend with hydras or scourge. Again, tons of variations and stuff I left out.
On May 07 2014 14:14 Ouija wrote: I just recently started playing broodwar and I spend a good amount of time watching vods to try to better my understanding of the flow of the game and just the game in general. Last night I watched a match that i'm sure many of you have seen, and the terran opened with wraiths to counter mutas. I found nothing about such build on liquidpedia and nothing as well searching TL forums. The terran player in the game opened with 14cc which I don't think is a good idea for me, so can someone explain if going wraiths off 1 base is a good idea and if so, how would one transition afterwards? Thanks!
For those interested, the game was Flash vs Jaedong from 2008 Proleague All-Stars. I'm not sure of the map but Flash went 14cc into 4 starport wraith.
Yes, that was the game I watched. I do have another question though. A few pages back someone posted about microing valks against mutas. Do you micro the wraith the same way? Flash was microing down scourge left and right, but I have a feeling if I try that the scourge will connect.
@Jemah - Thanks for the insightful information. Time to put it to the test!!
Yes, that was the game I watched. I do have another question though. A few pages back someone posted about microing valks against mutas. Do you micro the wraith the same way? Flash was microing down scourge left and right, but I have a feeling if I try that the scourge will connect.
@Jemah - Thanks for the insightful information. Time to put it to the test!!
Wraith micro vs scourge you use patrol in the same manner as muta vs scourge. It's easier to explain with a diagram but...i wont do that. If you are flying w/ wraith in the direction of the scourge, once you are in attack range you press patrol in front of your wraiths, then right click away in the opposite direction. Then as the scourge chase you, you would press patrol in front of the wraiths, and right click away to continue running from the scourge. Repeat patrol + right click away pattern as neccessary.
Of course this type of micro takes a fair bit of practice and its best to find some micro map with whatever situation you're looking for.
If you just recently started playing broodwar, don't use the build flash used in that game. It's map dependent, very hard on micro/multitasking (and you have to know how to execute proper wraith micro) and requires knowledge of follow ups and how to react to what the zerg is doing which you can only really learn the hard way, by losing a million games because this build is VERY rarely used. Wraiths are very fragile units and at a low level you're probably going to end up throwing them away and losing the game shortly after.
If you just want to experiment and have fun, go ahead. If you want to get better I'd suggest learning some of the more mainstream builds until you get your mechanics down.
If you want to ask me any questions, feel free to PM
On May 08 2014 19:32 ii.blitzkrieg wrote: If you just recently started playing broodwar, don't use the build flash used in that game. It's map dependent, very hard on micro/multitasking (and you have to know how to execute proper wraith micro) and requires knowledge of follow ups and how to react to what the zerg is doing which you can only really learn the hard way, by losing a million games because this build is VERY rarely used. Wraiths are very fragile units and at a low level you're probably going to end up throwing them away and losing the game shortly after.
If you just want to experiment and have fun, go ahead. If you want to get better I'd suggest learning some of the more mainstream builds until you get your mechanics down.
If you want to ask me any questions, feel free to PM
This^
If you want to try it, it could only work against people that are lower skill level than you, but as you just started, there's not many people lower than you... and usually you have to get at least a slight advantage to make it work.
EPT
